Feedback on the metal changes in the latest update

[LetsPlayArbitration]

Ty For the recent hotfix, everything is looking much better. Frames are still appearing a bit washed out in certain lighting conditions but 25.7.2 massively improved things from what i've seen so far. Thank you for the fix, and i hope to see the lighting get another small touch up in an update as well. However lowering brightness from 50 to 40 seems to have helped a lot.

 

[Frostyinferno]

52 minutes ago, LetsPlayArbitration said:

Ty For the recent hotfix, everything is looking much better. Frames are still appearing a bit washed out in certain lighting conditions but 25.7.2 massively improved things from what i've seen so far. Thank you for the fix, and i hope to see the lighting get another small touch up in an update as well. However lowering brightness from 50 to 40 seems to have helped a lot.

 

Unfortunately, I don't agree. I hate to say it but the whole metallic change in general just needs a revert. There's no point trying to hotfix it. The old metallics just looked better, period. As long as they look scuffed or dull they just don't work for any golden accents (AKA the entire Orokin aesthetic.)

[Draken029]

this is a huge problem,. i've spend countless amounts of money and time getting my frames just right, and now they screw it all up, i want it fixed or a complete refund. every frame i have now looks like garbage.

[Aeon94]

Acceltra has washed out metallic textures ( primary ) and Akarius has dark and almost untintable metallic textures ( primary ) , can you fix them ?

Edit : Altra Syandana also suffers from washed out metallics.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Aeon94

[Draken029]

is it me or did the hotfix just roll back the prievious hotfix????

[Klutzy]

Things for sure have improved with today's hotfixes (for some surfaces anyway).. but this change needs some thought.  Part of me wants to scream "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but I understand that tech needs to change and improve to keep the game looking good in the future, so I am not going to say this is unwelcome...  just..  needs more thought.

If the idea is to make all metal surfaces have an aged, worn look, then that's an art direction change; don't pitch it as a graphics update.  Changing the tech doesn't need to change the art style.  If this is not the case, and shiny bits should still be shiny, then yeah, missed the mark. I would probably stop putting out partially implemented features, too.

 

On 2019-08-29 at 4:35 PM, [DE]Megan said:

 

 

I actually had to look at this a couple times, because I was seriously confused.  The cube on the left looks a million times better than the one on the right, but that is the old one, and the scuffed, blurry one on the right is the new.

 

On 2019-08-29 at 4:35 PM, [DE]Megan said:

 

 

 

 

^{[edit: just realized..  I think that is a breach pod on a Railjack, so I can't even really go in-game to see if what I see looks like the above image.]}

This image looks great!  The dull shine and the scuffs look amazing...  on Grineer architecture.  Prime frames and weapons, Orokin structures, even Corpus tech looks better with a polished shine.  They don't necessarily have to have a mirror finish that I could fix my hair in, but at least be able to get a general sense of what is being reflected.  I honestly don't know if this is just a lighting issue, or if there's another texture layer on the shinier metal surfaces that needs adjustment.  The cubes above, for example: the one on the right has a texture layer that is either new, or just much more noticeable with the light interactions that makes it look like it fell off a k-drive at max speed from the highest summit in the Vallis.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Klutzy

[FatalPapercut]

Just rechecked my dojo, the transparency is fixed! All back to normal.

 

TY DE

[NightmareT12]

22 minutes ago, Klutzy said:

Part of me wants to scream "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but I understand that tech needs to change and improve to keep the game looking good in the future, so I am not going to say this is unwelcome...  just..  needs more thought.

But here's the thing, just as in many other things in the game: It was intended to be there all along, but due limitations of the engine they couldn't be fulfilled. Kinda like cloth physics for the old frames.

However...

23 minutes ago, Klutzy said:

Prime frames and weapons, Orokin structures, even Corpus tech looks better with a polished shine.  They don't necessarily have to have a mirror finish that I could fix my hair in, but at least be able to get a general sense of what is being reflected. 

Completely agree here. I believe most of us have come to understand under the work done since PBR was introduced to the game that certain factions were intended to look in certain ways. For instance, I always took Orokin gold was supposed to be reflective, polished, brand new and perfect. Pretty much like this, notice the table surface reflecting perfectly back unto the ring:

Spoiler

It wasn't showcased at its best, but now (or very soon will) it clearly can.

I'll also repeat that if you take a look at the stuff Steve was showing under the new renderer (not what we currently have, but what's coming in Empyrean with the new Orbiter and such) it feels different than what we have and a tad closer to what you describe:

Video takes a bit to load properly, but you can totally see it. Same for Orbiter:

 

[Maxim_M_Payne]

Today's hotfix appears to have had an effect on the plastic metal of...

No change at all?!

3 hours ago, Klutzy said:

The dull shine and the scuffs look amazing...  on Grineer architecture.  Prime frames and weapons, Orokin structures, even Corpus tech looks better with a polished shine

This times a thousand. The whole thing with Prime and Orokin tech is to be eerily unmarred and polished in their metallic textures even after millennia. As opposed to Yesterday's change, which turned them into Velveeta mac and cheese. The old Orokin/Prime/Tenno metal legitimately looked better; and the scuffed, oilier look should be saved for Grineer tech; especially since most Grineer stuff still isn't updated, and remains just as plastic-looking as old-fashioned Corpus.

Orokin, Tenno, and Prime metal should be as smooth, shiny, and chrome as it was before.

Grineer metal, a rare sight in the first place, should logically be weathered, dirty, and dented; as more of it gets added to textures and enemies.

Corpus metal should stay the way it looked within the Orb Vallis prior to Saint of Altra: shiny, but not as shiny as Primes; with a slight bumpiness and clear mass production to its textures beneath the gleam.

Every single one of these now looks worse; like four or five permutations of the same fast-food toy with lead-based paint that was manufactured in Bangkok by enslaved sweatshop orphans. One thing that makes it all the worse, is that the museum accessed through Gauss's Codex page makes it quite clear that the tech for the old, objectively better looking Warframe metal still exists; and inexplicably he retains it as the newest Frame, while the rest of us become plastic blobs.

With all due respect, what the heck is going on, and how does it constitute a graphical improvement in any way? Our metal looks disgustingly cheesy now; both in the sense of resembling cheese and in the sense of bearing a resemblance to the costume for a low-budget 80's fantasy film.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Maxim_M_Payne
Spoiler for images removed, this issue necessitates viewing the absolute DROP in metal quality.

[Draken029]

scuffed and blurry is fine, but the way they've pulled off this old and aged look is by adjusting light levels distorting every single color value. simply put by giving white lights a yellow tinge they've made my white frames look like they are piss yellow, and the metal bits are now faded, basically instead of things having a more aged and antiqued look everything looks sun bleached and cheap, because they put this graphical patch through in the laziest way possible. And frankly i'll make it simple, the devs probably have about a week to fix this before a large group of us not only walk but also force chargebacks or take other actions. i'm not going to support this game any further if these colors and EVERYTHING ive bought, is not put back the way it was.

[Doomelf]

Well, nothing has changed for the colors that I can see in update 25.7.2 + 25.7.2.1, but hopefully that will finally get fixed when the DE team "has regrouped next week".

[Klutzy]

@NightmareT12 I'm not a Twitter person, so thanks for those links.  I wasn't aware of those images until earlier today, and looking back a little through his posts, I can understand how we ended up with what we got.

Those cube surfaces I picked at are actually floor textures, so scuffs make sense, and I can see why the new one is an improvement.

 

52 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

1 hour ago, Klutzy said:

Part of me wants to scream "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but I understand that tech needs to change and improve to keep the game looking good in the future, so I am not going to say this is unwelcome...  just..  needs more thought.

But here's the thing, just as in many other things in the game: It was intended to be there all along, but due limitations of the engine they couldn't be fulfilled. Kinda like cloth physics for the old frames.

Oh, I totally understand, and I am glad to see that the art direction isn't going to change.  But implementing half of a modification like this, the lighting without the material textures, is just going to make people upset, revolt, and probably generate some self-doubt in the team.  Mixing old and new technologies might not have been the best approach in this department.  I'm fairly sure the reason we haven't heard much for melee 3.0 is because they had to go back to the drawing board for some aspect they hadn't considered, or had the wrong idea about (Again, not a fan of "the twitter", so there's probably news out there that I don't know of).  But they may not even have to change course, if players are given the whole rework at once instead of the 2.0-3.0 mash-up (mixed technologies) we have.

 

On a similar vein:

From the tweet: "Metallic surfaces will look better and more consistent across the whole game!"  My worry here is that all metals, from Grineer breach pods to Orokin ornaments, are going to end up looking the same..  like well-trodden floors.

[LestryusYggdrus]

Well, still looking plastic for me, anyone else?

[krc473]

7 minutes ago, DarkMetor said:

Well, still looking plastic for me, anyone else?

That depends on what exactly you are referring to. Maybe an image would help.

[LestryusYggdrus]

it's just the parts prime that still looking like plastic, same thing that ppl were complaining about it. i don't have a "before" "after" image.

[TaurusDeRoma]

Any frame in particular? Not much we can do without images for comparison

[MemeLordStranger]

Here is an example of my Liset with Dex Skin

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1849633087

It DID NOT look like this before. It used to be more darker and the lotus logo also used to cast shadows but now it's just... I don't know, it looks like badly made bathroom tiles

[MemeLordStranger]

Everything looks so god damn ugly now. If this is intended than I hope to god DE will come to their sense and revert this

[Rikk_]

I just noticed that the graphics felt a bit weird and yes they are more brighter.

Look at this image I found on reddit. (Not mine credit goes to: https://www.reddit.com/user/iTriggz/)

Right one is a year old and the left one is the new one (took today). It's looking ugly. Did you guys also get this change?

The colors have also changed.

[MemeLordStranger]

Although everyone else has already made forums about this, I am still replying here to make sure that DE sees all this outrage and that if it is intended, it needs to be reverted quickly

[MemeLordStranger]

Although everyone else has already made forums about this, I am still replying here to make sure that DE sees all this outrage and that if it is intended, it needs to be reverted quickly

[0_The_F00l]

+1

yes , i made my infested lab finally something that looks proper infested , but i have no clue where everything is cause its practically invisible.

I don't mind some translucency , but the current one makes it hard to adjust things.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

DE is aware that the new lighting they added in with the mainline update has done some things that didn't plan to happen an are getting this fixed

[Rikk_]

15 minutes ago, MemeLordStranger said:

Although everyone else has already made forums about this, I am still replying here to make sure that DE sees all this outrage and that if it is intended, it needs to be reverted quickly

Well I actually posted a post 20 hours ago but somehow it didn't get posted, after waking up I had to re-post it. Anyways you are right.

[Rikk_]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

DE is aware that the new lighting they added in with the mainline update has done some things that didn't plan to happen an are getting this fixed

Good to know.