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Nitro747

Lua Lens: 3 years too late - pointless "reward"

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With Eidolon lenses and ESO being an actual decent focus farm (anyone remembers Berehynia focus cheese with a squad? :'D ), what even is the point of this "reward"? The bulk of veterans or even people who have been playing this game for a bit longer than a newcomer already have most of the important focus stuff unlocked. What even is the point of adding something so trivial and so much after it would be useful???

Now, instead of having something "new" added to the game, we just have a pointless, useless reward trashing the loot table, almost in the same way the 2500 credits caches/bronze mods do with low tier defense/survival missions do.

I can already see a bunch of people like "ah, yeah, another lua lens, let me just put its blueprint together with the other 45 blueprints I have for this thing and wait for an actual reward". Or just actually play in another node that doesnt give the chance of rewarding the player with almost literal nothing...

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In warframe, they generally put this kind of "rewards that is not useful anymore to veterans" to actually help casual players catch up.

Of course, people that farmed hard earliers to get their Focus feel screwed because if the Lua lens were a thing before, they would have take less time to farm Focus, but they actually did farm it anyway, it just took more time and those people that farmed hard their Focus are the same that are complaining about no things to do. Actually, longer focus farm were a thing to do for them and releasing Lua lens would just have make less thing to do for them.
But now, most of people that farm hard already have their Focus maxed and those Lua lens are there for people who don't have time to do that or just don't care enough to bother farming Focus, these are here for more casual players to max their Focus too, especially new players that have a lot of stuff to do and will never catch up if everything is as hard to farm as it was when on their release.

Same happened for Oxium farm with Zephyr, affinity and endo in general, rare mods, etc... Everything is hard at first for try hard players to invest time in it, and when most of them have what they want, they gradually make stuff easier to get for future new players to not struggle getting absolutely everything in the game.

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Personally I see the lua lens as another 'band aid' instead of fixing the bigger issue with gaining focus (for those of us who haven't done the grind already).   Outside of meta farming techniques such as ESO the rate of focus gain is just far too low in the normal game.... so instead of tackling focus gain in general, DE just give us another lens with higher percentages.

Now I haven't maxed out my focus (honestly don't feel a need to), I haven't even used my eidolon lenses yet either because I'd literally be wasting the greater lens I have installed so this lua lens isn't going to suddenly make me want to swap out my existing lenses and farm focus... I'd have been more inclined to work on my focus points if it wasn't for the stupid capacity cost and the need to 'meta farm' for any real progress to be made.

 

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1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

Personally I see the lua lens as another 'band aid' instead of fixing the bigger issue with gaining focus (for those of us who haven't done the grind already).   Outside of meta farming techniques such as ESO the rate of focus gain is just far too low in the normal game.... so instead of tackling focus gain in general, DE just give us another lens with higher percentages.

Now I haven't maxed out my focus (honestly don't feel a need to), I haven't even used my eidolon lenses yet either because I'd literally be wasting the greater lens I have installed so this lua lens isn't going to suddenly make me want to swap out my existing lenses and farm focus... I'd have been more inclined to work on my focus points if it wasn't for the stupid capacity cost and the need to 'meta farm' for any real progress to be made.

 

14 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

In warframe, they generally put this kind of "rewards that is not useful anymore to veterans" to actually help casual players catch up.

 

Man, to be really honest, after ESO was added with the focus boon on the begining it became a breeze to catch up on the focus department, specially now that THEY EVEN ADDED EIDOLON LENSES TO THE MARKET. You just need to jump in any ESO round, there certainly will be a Saryn nuking the entire mission netting some easy 100k focus. 

But I agree, not only it is a bandaid to the terrible system but also a bandaid reward because no one cared about the "echoes of umbra".

Now, they could have added radiant relics to rotation C of the mission, like how it is in ESO. They could have added that new universal syndicate thingy, which is honestly a neat addition to the game. They could've added anything but ANOTHER focus lens. At least its not as horrible as the Synthetic Eidolon Shards that were completely useless and plagued the drop tables of ESO...

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17 minutes ago, Nitro747 said:

Man, to be really honest, after ESO was added with the focus boon on the begining it became a breeze to catch up on the focus department, specially now that THEY EVEN ADDED EIDOLON LENSES TO THE MARKET. You just need to jump in any ESO round, there certainly will be a Saryn nuking the entire mission netting some easy 100k focus. 

But I agree, not only it is a bandaid to the terrible system but also a bandaid reward because no one cared about the "echoes of umbra".

Now, they could have added radiant relics to rotation C of the mission, like how it is in ESO. They could have added that new universal syndicate thingy, which is honestly a neat addition to the game. They could've added anything but ANOTHER focus lens. At least its not as horrible as the Synthetic Eidolon Shards that were completely useless and plagued the drop tables of ESO...

Well I know why they've added eidolon lenses to the market, we need them to make the lua lens along with a resource only found on lua disruption... won't be using many of them then because that means farming PoE to get eidolon lenses and well I have no reason to go back to PoE and needing eidolon lenses won't change that... lua lenses could have at least been ready made lenses.

To be honest the majority of the rewards in disruption are pointless for me, I've got no end of relics already which I don't use and the credit reward one is just comical.

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9 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Well I know why they've added eidolon lenses to the market, we need them to make the lua lens along with a resource only found on lua disruption... won't be using many of them then because that means farming PoE to get eidolon lenses and well I have no reason to go back to PoE and needing eidolon lenses won't change that... lua lenses could have at least been ready made lenses.

To be honest the majority of the rewards in disruption are pointless for me, I've got no end of relics already which I don't use and the credit reward one is just comical.

woa, you actually need EIDOLON LENSES to build those? This item just got 45% more pointless :DD

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Just now, Nitro747 said:

woa, you actually need EIDOLON LENSES to build those? This item just got 45% more pointless :DD

according to wiki yeah...

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Well the thing is, if you're determined to max your school's and capacity NOW NOW NOW instead of "eventually", it is a significant daily investment of time that could be spent doing mitch more fun things. This doesn't increase how fast you max out, just reduces the amount of distraction from other game modes. 

Sure it's useless to you, and soon enough to me. But ther are thousands of new players who need access to content that you sort of need some of this to compete. 

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6 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

woa, you actually need EIDOLON LENSES to build those? This item just got 45% more pointless :DD

You need lesser versions of lenses to build better versions. It's always been this way. How exactly is an objective upgrade pointless? Sure, it doesn't affect people who have already maxed out all the Focus Schools, but that's only maybe 15% of the playerbase. For the other 85, there's nothing bad about another upgrade - especially since it's a lot better than an Eidolon Lens. 

Also, what's with the excessive creepy emoticons? You ok?

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7 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

With Eidolon lenses and ESO being an actual decent focus farm (anyone remembers Berehynia focus cheese with a squad? :'D ), what even is the point of this "reward"? The bulk of veterans or even people who have been playing this game for a bit longer than a newcomer already have most of the important focus stuff unlocked. What even is the point of adding something so trivial and so much after it would be useful???

Now, instead of having something "new" added to the game, we just have a pointless, useless reward trashing the loot table, almost in the same way the 2500 credits caches/bronze mods do with low tier defense/survival missions do.

I can already see a bunch of people like "ah, yeah, another lua lens, let me just put its blueprint together with the other 45 blueprints I have for this thing and wait for an actual reward". Or just actually play in another node that doesnt give the chance of rewarding the player with almost literal nothing...

Oh, veteran whining again. Yeah, Im a veteran with all focus unlocked a while ago from eidolon hunt, but im still a new comer because I started a second account so i can play the game in a different way without hunting - so focus lens comes in. Do u see a long list of new things added to the game? Why bashing the new lens here and call it trivial? Or are u feeling your time was wasted with eidolon lens while ago?

The new lens added with higher focus rate is because the game is so huge now, so it;s gonna cut down a bit of grinding for new players now and new players to come. Stop being bitter about time was wasted in the past where content was lesser than today.

 

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8 часов назад, Nitro747 сказал:

The bulk of veterans or even people who have been playing this game for a bit longer than a newcomer already have most of the important focus stuff unlocked. What even is the point of adding something so trivial and so much after it would be useful???

Breaking news: not everything added is for veterans.

I'm personally at the point where no in game reward is a reward for me. Yet no one sees me running around the forums complaining that "X is s**t case it has no rewards for veterans". Also my definition of a veteran probably way different from yours btw.

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All rewards are pointless to one player or another, not just focus lens, rewards aren't for just 1 player alone, you are meant to play on a regular basis, doing missions over and over and gaining stuff gradually, for someone starting now the lens on the long term (like a 2 year gameplay vision) might come in handy.

If you have the focus maxed out on what you need, it's obvious the lens isn't for you, use the resources to stock up for future updates or endure the grind that comes when a new item requires the stuff aswell (i mean the resource that drops from lua demolysts)

Like you, i will likely not build the focus lens because i already have the focus and the stuff i need, but that doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying the game mode, i will farm, have fun and plan for the future, regardless of what i win.

I also note that focus isn't really necessary to perform great in warframe, for ages we never had focus and now that we do the player overall skill didn't improve much, i hardly see players using operator mode and make use of some effects from the focus schools, what was average will remain average, with or without focus, with or without lua lens

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Il y a 9 heures, lukinu_u a dit :

Everything is hard at first for try hard players to invest time in it, and when most of them have what they want, they gradually make stuff easier to get for future new players to not struggle getting absolutely everything in the game.

Exactly, and that's why many vets feel so often that the only real challenge we propose to them is a giant hamster wheel.

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If a player cared about focus, they'd have what they want already. Those that don't care won't bother with Lua lenses and just remain at their current point.

If they're gonna add a new lens, they could have added a few nodes to each focus tree to give everyone a reason to maybe use the lens instead of just the people that are either behind or don't care.

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Il y a 9 heures, Nitro747 a dit :

woa, you actually need EIDOLON LENSES to build those? This item just got 45% more pointless :DD

Dead on arrival, great drop DE xD All the more reasons to just buy the gauss bundle and not touch disruption ever again

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It seems the white knights have arrived.

And none of them noticed Lua Lenses are a bandaid replacement "reward" because their original idea was trash. It was supposed to be a reward to keep people invested in it, not a reward "meant to 15% of players" as some dude suggested. 

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As someone who recently sank 8 forma into two Eidolon lens, I am rather pissed that all those resources and crucially time have effectively been wasted.

This is a good tool to help people max focus, but if they're going to do this then DE should damn well let us upgrade attached lens, I will not spend weeks just to erase my previous lens for something nearly 50% better.

There were lots of people that said bothering with Eidolon lenses was  fools game ... and DE's proved them right.

Edit: I was quite tired when I wrote this, having stayed up for baro grinding, so when I glanced back at the requirements page I misread the forma cost. coming back to it today, the actual cost isn't as bad, but DE should still respect players who have sunk in an investment into their game and let us build on prior work, rather than telling us we have to chuck it out the window and redo things for busy work.

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Am 30.8.2019 um 02:17 schrieb Nitro747:

With Eidolon lenses and ESO being an actual decent focus farm

You missed Equinox / Ivara Fokus rush. 

Unless they change the Focus economy drastically, anything bigger then a Greater focus lens is just a wast of time / plat

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1 hour ago, MediumRareLizard said:

You missed Equinox / Ivara Fokus rush. 

Unless they change the Focus economy drastically, anything bigger then a Greater focus lens is just a wast of time / plat

Yeah but that requires people to have Ivara/Equinox and more than 5 brain cells. And it also gets boring after the first 10 times you do it. And with ESO you earn other stuff too.

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Lua lens is useful for non-veterans, and people who'd rather get focus as they play normally (rather than speed-grinding it).

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8 minutes ago, Frenotx said:

Lua lens is useful for non-veterans, and people who'd rather get focus as they play normally (rather than speed-grinding it).

Given the titanic amount of grind, resources and time it takes to get one lens ready, I find that really hard to believe.

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I find the relic rewards even worse.. no veteran needs those since we a) swim in them and b) have no use for them outside of ducats (which we already possess thousands of)

Not to mention we already have all prime gear, and since new primes aren't in there, it's redundant.

Like a literal waste..

And please miss me with the "but u can sell prime parts for 1-2p per piece) I already drown in plat, like most veterans.

I'd rather seriously take the lens and the new syndicate thingy over relics any day..

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25 minutes ago, (XB1)GaussPrime said:

I find the relic rewards even worse.. no veteran needs those since we a) swim in them and b) have no use for them outside of ducats (which we already possess thousands of)

Not to mention we already have all prime gear, and since new primes aren't in there, it's redundant.

Like a literal waste..

And please miss me with the "but u can sell prime parts for 1-2p per piece) I already drown in plat, like most veterans.

I'd rather seriously take the lens and the new syndicate thingy over relics any day..

By using your own logic the lenses are useless because "veterans have all focus schools unlocked" which is true.

Also, who said that the better alternative was relics to begin with? At the very least eventually they add new primes over time, meanwhile there is no plan altogether for people to make use of more focus points.

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3 hours ago, Nitro747 said:

By using your own logic the lenses are useless because "veterans have all focus schools unlocked" which is true.

Also, who said that the better alternative was relics to begin with? At the very least eventually they add new primes over time, meanwhile there is no plan altogether for people to make use of more focus points.

Honestly let me throw in my point lets go over the details:

  • Lua lens requires a eidolon lens to make it which requires a greater lens which requires 4 regular lens to make. Thats quite a bit of farming & crafting when you cannot even remove a focus lens or upgrade it after its planted on a weapon/warframe. Plus do you expect new players to spend 40 or even 80 plat to skip some of it? Lua & Eidolon lens should of had completely separate build paths from each other instead of following an extra layer of grind to grind for it. Since it could easily take 2 or even 3 days just to prepare these things, you can`t straight up farm greater focus lenses either, especially when scrapping plat in market chat is not a pleasurable experience, especially to the newer players, since the value of common goods has no consistency or chance for newer players to have the TOLERANCE to chase those down just to get 1 item which they will likely need 2 or even up to 10 of them to just make focus farm a tad bit easier.
  • As stated above, this basically means only `veterans` who have the tolerance and patience to constantly spam tier 5 bounties to get the eidolon bp lens, then either get the plat or go thru farming lesser bounties for regular ones just to take 24 hours to make a greater before they can then take another 24 hours to make the eidolon, then another 24 hours if they manage to get the lua bp before then, to then make the lua one, because you would have to do some SERIOUS slam leeching if you are a new-ish player farming those. Where in those 3 day, you could of likely capped out the daily focus on regular focus lenses by then, likely with a loki using a dagger(without covert lethality likely) and a bow, which may be inefficient, but is much more achievable for newer players.

 

  • Relic system in general is so dated its bad also, i have repeated it many times in many threads, but if they do not CONDENSE the steps needed to farm them, then the effort to farm parts in general, aka the only consistent `cheap` way to make platinum for any player, since even chasing ayatans have little worth these days for making platinum, has gotten to the point its just such a massive pain to even try to think about selling prime parts above 1 plat each, since the effort to farm a set to sell, is not even as equivalent to the amount you even get back for all the effort, especially when its gotten to 60 plat or less for a warframe set, not a 3 part prime weapon set, but a literal freaking warframe which usually has 2 parts being rare tier. This not even counting you would want to sell multiple sets just to get enough platinum, which it could take 3 or even up to 5 prime sets to be sold just to make enough plat for buying a single lua lens if you were aiming to get someone to buy the set sooner then take hours just to sell the set closer to what the original values were.

 

  • TL;DR: Kind of why D.E. needs to get the game to stop clutching on riven & relic systems and get the game back to a actual fun looter game that reward creative builds, then just one button press & everything explodes on the map auto kill builds. Because even as a newblet back in the day, i did not panick attack sortie every day to pray i get a riven, i just prayed for something good & i enjoyed my chill sessions with void key runs, not have to establish freaking squads just to spam farm relics, constantly rotating players out every mission clear cause someone always only had 1 copy. Meaning i had to spend almost more time getting new people & starting each mission, then i actually got to get the parts, making the average time taken per part alot longer then 5 ish minutes.

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