Lua Lens: 3 years too late - pointless "reward"

[Kontrollo]

On 2019-08-30 at 2:17 AM, Nitro747 said:

With Eidolon lenses and ESO being an actual decent focus farm (anyone remembers Berehynia focus cheese with a squad? :'D ), what even is the point of this "reward"? The bulk of veterans or even people who have been playing this game for a bit longer than a newcomer already have most of the important focus stuff unlocked. What even is the point of adding something so trivial and so much after it would be useful???

Now, instead of having something "new" added to the game, we just have a pointless, useless reward trashing the loot table, almost in the same way the 2500 credits caches/bronze mods do with low tier defense/survival missions do.

I can already see a bunch of people like "ah, yeah, another lua lens, let me just put its blueprint together with the other 45 blueprints I have for this thing and wait for an actual reward". Or just actually play in another node that doesnt give the chance of rewarding the player with almost literal nothing...

Just because they're useless to you after (?) hundred hours doesn't mean they're useless to everyone else.

Also, they're tradeable, right? Might still get something out of them, after all.

[Test-995]

On 2019-08-30 at 9:33 AM, lukinu_u said:

In warframe, they generally put this kind of "rewards that is not useful anymore to veterans" to actually help casual players catch up.

Of course, people that farmed hard earliers to get their Focus feel screwed because if the Lua lens were a thing before, they would have take less time to farm Focus, but they actually did farm it anyway, it just took more time and those people that farmed hard their Focus are the same that are complaining about no things to do. Actually, longer focus farm were a thing to do for them and releasing Lua lens would just have make less thing to do for them.
But now, most of people that farm hard already have their Focus maxed and those Lua lens are there for people who don't have time to do that or just don't care enough to bother farming Focus, these are here for more casual players to max their Focus too, especially new players that have a lot of stuff to do and will never catch up if everything is as hard to farm as it was when on their release.

Same happened for Oxium farm with Zephyr, affinity and endo in general, rare mods, etc... Everything is hard at first for try hard players to invest time in it, and when most of them have what they want, they gradually make stuff easier to get for future new players to not struggle getting absolutely everything in the game.

I'm sorry but this thing can't help "casual players" at all.

you need lens to craft greater lens, to craft eidolon lens, to craft lua lens, alternatively you could spend 100+ plat to buy those lenses from market.

and since eidolon does exist, this is basically useless reward for everyone.

[(NSW)ToadBlue]

32 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

I'm sorry but this thing can't help "casual players" at all.

you need lens to craft greater lens, to craft eidolon lens, to craft lua lens, alternatively you could spend 100+ plat to buy those lenses from market.

and since eidolon does exist, this is basically useless reward for everyone.

I'm very very very far from maxing even one focus tree, but I find the greater lenses and beyond to be worthless. To get a greater lens I have to grind bounties I hate doing to earn multiple lenses of a single type which is awful because of the random rewards of bounties. Then I'd have to do that several times more to get an Eidolon lens which I couldn't do right now anyway because Cetus bounties have never given me 1 blueprint for it because random rewards, again. Then spend that lens and a rare resource to craft a Lua Lens.

I'm happier throwing basic lenses onto all of my gear and earning focus the slow way, because it's a better use of my time.

[Steel_Rook]

On 2019-08-30 at 3:33 AM, lukinu_u said:

Same happened for Oxium farm with Zephyr, affinity and endo in general, rare mods, etc... Everything is hard at first for try hard players to invest time in it, and when most of them have what they want, they gradually make stuff easier to get for future new players to not struggle getting absolutely everything in the game.

Yeah, that's how MMOs work. Early adopters have the hardest time and longest grind. As rewards age, their costs are generally reduced. It's why the Atlas Prime Pack that actually contains Atlas Prime is $80 but I bought the Rhino Prime Pack for $40.

 

On 2019-08-30 at 3:46 AM, LSG501 said:

Personally I see the lua lens as another 'band aid' instead of fixing the bigger issue with gaining focus (for those of us who haven't done the grind already).   Outside of meta farming techniques such as ESO the rate of focus gain is just far too low in the normal game.... so instead of tackling focus gain in general, DE just give us another lens with higher percentages.

Well, and then there's that, yeah. The focus system sucks ass altogether and is in dire need of redesign. Lua Lenses don't help with this any. I hope the Duviri Paradox will ship with some kind of fundamental Operator progression redesign, because the current system is a frikkin' mess of performance imbalance and progression nonsense. And don't even get me started on Elite Sanctuary Onslaught, that most reductive and unappealing game type which nevertheless offers an absurdly disproportionately high rate of progression and rampant power-levelling.

[Avienas]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Kal-Gura said:

For me this is great as I am a casual player. Some of the requirements for upgrading and unlocking gear etc is too much for people like myself. I would look at the materials required and say "oh, only 5 needed, that's not too bad". Then realise that in order to get that blueprint to even make the damn things you need x amount of this other thing. It honestly grows sometimes to a point where I cry inside lol. I understand vets being a bit miffed with this but while all these updates and new features are awesome. It stretches out realistic expectations of being able to use any of these cool fun new things to the realm of unfathomable. 

Honestly they need to change how the pathing works. Make it require 3 lens to make a greater, 5 to make a eidolon and 8 for a Lua, this would greatly fix how the focus lenses are handled, but they need to also include a way to upgrade focus lenses after they have been attached to the warframe, such as converting a eidolon or lua lens bp into a converter lens of sorts which takes significantly less resources but requires a lens of the previous tier to already be equipped to `upgrade it`.

Overall its not just a VETERAN issue since the focus system itself has been terrible even with the original version. It should of honestly of been designed with a intent to either make them very powerful or have effects to match up multiple useful situations instead of what most have been dumbed down to outside of zenurik. 

I mean the fact that said focus skills despite requiring a considerable amount of time to farm focus to max them, are likely only sub-par decent to non-modded weapons, without them able to give a reason to waste time using their effects when you can instead use a warframe cc ability like khora`s ensnare and then one shot a nox in the head afterwards...

...Well, the argument of operators should not be stronger in then the warframes is just b.s. at this point, especially if we already invested alot into them. Especially when its already got quite a bit of hints at the operator has alot more power then it seems and they aren`t really powering the warframes, just guiding them(Aka refer to The Sacrifice Questline, Chroma being another good second reference to that). So i would like to think the idea that operators should eventually be able to pull off the really powerful stuff that should definitely make people strive for grinding it. Sort of like some fun ideas i threw about on how to improve the operators like literally letting them able to void slam the ground and create a blackhole vortex or other powerful actions we get access too with all affinity we have been dumping into each of the schools. Very least it feels like each school should unlock some kind of ultimate technique schmick for maxing out every single skill in a school.

Plus honestly we have plenty of games that pull sub-bonus systems, whether its extra raw stats as you progress in mastery, sub-class extra ability bonuses, Merit systems which reward max levelers an additional amount of power they can grind for which could also benefit your other classes. If you were to ask me i could likely inch nearly to 10 or maybe even more on different kinds of systems that do that, very least that would give warframe a nice little endgame of sorts, without it being something artifically made by the player base aka what riven mod marketing and fashion frame is at this point  in some people`s words.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Avienas

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

 

This is What You Are: Fully unlock a Focus skill tree.

Steam - 1.5%

PS4 - 0.1%

XB1 - 3.0%

So few of us have even unlocked a single tree. Far fewer will have unlocked all. And only a tiny fraction of us have fully ranked up all of the nodes we intend to use, and unlocked the way bound skills. 

Let the newbs have the lenses. The more who become stronger players, the better the experience for all of us. 

[Oreades]

It's not even that they're 3 years too late tho that does play into it, it's that there is absolutely NO upgrade system. 

Every lense type requires you to start from square one and rebuild EVERYTHING from scratch. 

 

I get that in theory that is great (on paper) for giving players a bunch of tedious AF busy work to do and theoretically "keeps" them engaged. And who knows maybe it does keep some people engaged.... thing is I'd wager there are a lot more players who will simply avoid the content in one of two ways. 

1. They just won't do it because it's too mindnumbingly tedious 
2. They "will" do it BUT they won't bother with it until they have the materials for the top of the line Focus lens because literally anything else is an unupgradable waste of their time. 

Remember Arcanes, how at one point if memory served you where essentially boned once you installed them. Then they added a one time use "desocketing tool", then they made that tool infinite use and finally they got rid of it all together for a better system where you could swip and swap whatever you liked whenever you felt like it? 

Learn from Arcanes...

Edited October 2, 2019 by Oreades

[Arcira]

I think it wouldn´t be that much of a problem if there was a  cap for the amount of Focus you can earn equally to the amount you need to unlock everything. This way they would be able to add new stuff to the focus tree without people unlocking all of it at day 1.

But as for right now there are people probably sitting on millions of focus point and it´s very unlikely there will ever be a usefull purpose for it. Similar to the old ressources like alloy plates.

[Zero-Tres]

Tbh Focus Lenses suck, not only they have a daily cap, but the focus gain is slow as hell. Yes, even with a DPS frame in ESO or Adaro.

And on top of that we now have yet another type of lens which we have to build on top of the previous ones. So if you wanted to farm for the lenses and not buy them with plat you have to build a Greater Lens from regular lenses, then from that build an Eidolon lens, and then build a Lua lens on top of that one... every type of which takes about 24h to build iirc, so that's at least 3 days in the foundry for building one single Lua lens, not counting the time it takes to farm each component.

And yet again on top of it all we can't build lenses for different focus schools at the same time, because in the foundry they are labeled as "Greater Lens", "Eidolon Lens" and "Lua Lens" (I haven't farmed focus in over a year so I might be wrong about this, but I remember it was something like this). So we would have to wait for a Greater Naramon lens to finish building in order to start building a Greater Zenurik lens and so on.

In conclusion: Focus Lenses suck. They take too long to build (not to mention farming them) and the amount of focus they give is very poor. If Eidolons didn't exist focus farm would suck altogether.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Zero-Tres

[Steel_Rook]

A few quick fixes to the Focus system which wouldn't require a ground-up redesign:

1. Merge all of the lenses into just one Lens which grants Focus for either the currently active Focus tree or else for an otherwise selected focus Tree.
2. Allow us to upgrade lenses already placed into a Warframe or weapon, rather than having to craft them from scratch.
3. Reduce Focus costs by a factor of 10, but slash the daily cap by a factor of 10, as well.

That right there should make Lenses into a permanent, objective upgrade to items in the same vein as a Reactor, Catalyst and Gravimag as well as lessen the grind across the board such that ESO isn't the only way to progress. While that might not do much for veterans who already have all the Focus Schools maxed-out, it would still be an improvement to the system for those of us still going through it.

[Nitro747]

On 2019-10-02 at 3:49 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

 

This is What You Are: Fully unlock a Focus skill tree.

Steam - 1.5%

PS4 - 0.1%

XB1 - 3.0%

So few of us have even unlocked a single tree. Far fewer will have unlocked all. And only a tiny fraction of us have fully ranked up all of the nodes we intend to use, and unlocked the way bound skills. 

Let the newbs have the lenses. The more who become stronger players, the better the experience for all of us. 

So you think an item that requires an item that is grindy as hell, in which also requires another grind by itself, will help anyone? Specially "noob" players?

You really think that new players will have the competency to clear the plains over and over again, kill a ton of eidolons, wait for days untill all crafting requireents to get the damned Lua lens? Give me a break.

People in this forum have a really weird pleasure in agreeing to disagree with people, REGARDLESS of what is being talked.

>"It's for newer players"
>Item literally requires you to kill Eidolons on a daily basis

KEK

Also, its not like a greater lens, which requires waaaaaaay less grind is enough to hit the completely unnecessary daily focus gain in less than 30 minutes in ESO...

[schilds]

I agree that it's definitely not a new player or casual item.

 

However, what's this about killing Eidolons? If you're referring to Eidolon lenses, they are from T5 bounties.

[el_chanis]

On 2019-08-30 at 5:27 AM, Darth_Predator said:

Breaking news: not everything added is for veterans.

I'm personally at the point where no in game reward is a reward for me. Yet no one sees me running around the forums complaining that "X is s**t case it has no rewards for veterans". Also my definition of a veteran probably way different from yours btw.

^This.

The OP should keep in mind that his reward is having everything already unlocked before anyone else. I maxed out everthing of every school literally yesterday (or today, depending on your location), and i don't mind getting useless rewards, something i started to get years ago when i maxed all my mods and got flooded with credit boosters.

Our reward as veterans is the ability to face any "group" challenge alone without much (or any) effort. Im thinking about making my own dojo, with blackjack and hookers, simply because i have like 20 formas sitting in my inventory doing nothing.

For us, trully endgame, "got everything" veterans, our rewards are quest and updates, and maybe some shiny new sht from Baro, specially primed mods.