The leverian was a dissapoitment.

[Jarriaga]

I liked the concept. I never found myself interested in reading codex entries, but the way it was presented as a "museum" with a narrator is something I enjoyed. Hopefully it gets expanded in the future.

I donated 1 million credits to it. No idea what it does with regards to progress (A hidden community goal perhaps?), but the NPC said I was insane for doing that.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Jarriaga

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

I imagine the look will be refined overtime has it was stated it's under construction, but the location needs to be moved to the arsenal or codex or maybe where we have syndicates, conclave and game news theres a node unused there

[Loza03]

I disagree. I've been wanting a low-effort source of lore for a while. Legitimately.

It's all very well and good having big-budget lore dumps like Prime trailers and quests, but they take time, money and usually need to have some stuff on top of it. Remember the Sacrifice and how poorly received it was because there was nothing around it? Sacrifice was 90% plot and lore, which for such a big release, was a disappointment. And I loved the quest, but I can't deny that a good release of that calibre should have a lot more gameplay in it. A lesson they seem to have learned with TNW.

Leverian offers a nice way to experience some lore that likely doesn't cost much money (If I had to hazard a guess, the VA is probably a DE employee, just like how Lotus and most other early/frequently used VA's are) or much time and effort. That, hopefully, means we can see more of it.

[prodi1600]

Kinda wanted siaris for the role, the idea its interesting, im ok with the minimalism so it does bother me.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

8 hours ago, Mints said:

How much more explanation do you need other than that it was an Orokin tower that got overrun by an rebellion that got put down by a Tenno? This is the first reference to an occasion that the Orokin sicked the Tenno on human beings over a rebellion. That's a fairly big deal in the context of the story. It means there's a high likelihood that we've done some terrible things on their behalf.

SPOILERS for Inaros' quest and the War Within:

While it might be the first mention of a human rebellion...

Just a tidbit on this bit of lore point: Inaros was tasked with collecting young, beautiful people for the Orokin to use as bodies in their Continuity thing (as mention on the snowy mountain walk on earth - the Yuvan gallery/procession in front of all the Orokin while they selected their new bodies and perhaps bid on them like a slave market) to take over their bodies like the Goauld symbiotes would take new hosts in Stargate. That's pretty evil, because, for all we know, the "person" died in that process, or switched with the old, dying Orokin's body. (given all the body-mod'ing the Orokin did, with skin color and appendage sizes, I don't know for certain how they'd feel about some peasant inhabiting and using their old body...probably killed them, from what we know of them, in my estimation.)

Inaros is Warframe's T'ealc, turning on his masters when he couldn't take it anymore, and then proceeded to protect those people from the Infested (replicators) afterward. This is one of the reasons I like Inaros so much.  It seems to me, his rebellion took place independently of, and before, the Tenno wiping out the Orokin leadership on that whole ceremony day thing. At least, that's my recollection of the events in his quest, and it has been a long time since I read through all that, so the timing could be off.

 

[Dr_Shadox]

Il y a 9 heures, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa a dit :

great replacement for warframe quests, DE.

Every frame didn't have a quest.

Have a museum for Gauss didnt mean it "replace" a potential quest for him.

In this case where is the quest for Wisp ?


I find the museum a nice idea , a another way to see a new frame instead of just go wiki or check a rotating picture in codex.


Now we need other frame in it.

For finish this is a little tip, if you don't like museum, don't go in the museum , you'll see it work.

[Spliffy_McGee]

Personally, I thought it was pretty cool.  Had no idea what I was in for when I clicked "Levarian," but really enjoyed the little museum thingy.

I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't pick up the weapons and fire em off a few times, or try out the frame itself within the confines of the museum (maybe a parkour course could appear?), but that's a minor issue.

[Rider_Megalon]

personally i think it has potential if they pump out the pieces fast enough.

[Lokidus_Prime]

9 hours ago, krc473 said:

It is free. It is also in the Codex if you own the frame.

I was able to view the Leverian via the codex before I even farmed his parts.

[Annnoth]

I kind of like it as a way to focus in on the warframe in their prime. Most of the other lore has been about either what happened to or the world around the warframe. We know gara fought the eidolon but really it gave us more about the unum and eidolon than what gara is capable of outside of "fought the eidolon"

Revenant was all about how he watched over and lost to the eidolon.

With gauss it felt more like they were describing vignettes from his moments on the battle of altra, it put into perspective how much of a help he was and much more powerful he was thag he single handed just rammed through the defenses of the bunker that the dax couldnt penetrate.

In the end i got a way better feeling in who gauss was rather than what was happening around him. Some people might want that but i personally liked it more.

[bananacat89]

As someone who never reeds release notes. This is news to me.

Like why the heck do they hide this stuff? The devs need to get off their pc's and read a damn book. Figure out that no one goes to Barnes and Noble and looks under the freaking garbage can for that lost chapter in their Stephen king book. They should throw it in our faces. Half the stuff in this game is never even seen by 90% of the players. That is kinda  redonkulous. 

 

[LucidSeraph]

3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I liked the concept. I never found myself interested in reading codex entries, but the way it was presented as a "museum" with a narrator is something I enjoyed. Hopefully it gets expanded in the future.

I donated 1 million credits to it. No idea what it does with regards to progress (A hidden community goal perhaps?), but the NPC said I was insane for doing that.

I'm actually planning on donating 1 mil every time I get over 1 mil until either something happens or I am told that nothing will ever happen.

Throw money at it until it does something!

[sinnae]

Ah, crud, that's what I logged on to do an hour ago - check out the Leverian. I fashionframed, ran some fissures, shot the sh!t in clan chat, and logged out, and forgot to look at the Leverian again -_-

[DrakeWurrum]

I would GLADLY accept a slower rate of new warframe releases in return for getting lore one-shot quests with every singly frame.

Nothing draws us in and connects us to the game's universe and lore than actually having to go through a short story for the frame's lore, like we did with Chains of Harrow or the Silver Grove.

[KnossosTNC]

14 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I would GLADLY accept a slower rate of new warframe releases in return for getting lore one-shot quests with every singly frame.

Nothing draws us in and connects us to the game's universe and lore than actually having to go through a short story for the frame's lore, like we did with Chains of Harrow or the Silver Grove.

Except such quests also draw specialists from elsewhere in the studio, thus slowing down that side of the development too, not just new frames.

Anyway, no I'm not disappointed, for two reasons:

1. As an extra, DE have actually gone further than they are really required to. They've been explicit in why they abandoned the frames quest; it takes too much work. Life went on without them. Indeed, many frames such as many of the boss nodes ones don't even have much lore either, and yet life carried on. At most, the whole of Gauss's lore amounted to about 5 paragraphs, which they could have just stuffed somewhere in the Codex and be done with it. Instead, they made an interactive museum exhibit with a new character and voice narration. They've already done more than they had to.

2. It turned out exactly as I predicted when they first announced it:

On 2019-08-27 at 4:14 AM, KnossosTNC said:

It seems to be named after the Leverian Collection, which was a natural history and ethnographic collection from the voyages of Captain James Cook.

My guess is some sort of museum-like exhibit, with some voice narration explaining the lore.

How could I be disappointed when I already knew exactly what it was going to be?

Edited August 30, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

As far as I can tell, their release schedule for new frames is important for the release schedule of primed frames, because this is tied to Prime Access purchases and their business model and budgets based on the influx of cash at those specific planned-for dates. Similarly, Tennocon, where they announce new content also sees large boosts in revenue as people become more hyped and invested in the future of the game (not even the release of the content, it's the future hype, as revealed in an interview.)

So, they'd have to fit the whole quest production into the approximately 3-4 month window between frames. We don't know how many programmers they have that are capable of programming at that level of the game's code. (often smaller companies have a code guru or two upon whom the bulk of the core coding falls upon, and all major coding projects get bottlenecked through them, even if they have a team ready to produce all the art, sound, and writing to make it possible. It is likely that Warframe ability coding falls under this umbrella of more difficult coding projects and competes with creation of new content and quests.)

Of course, I don't work there, nor do I know how many programmers they have who are capable of being put on separate teams to work concurrently on all these things that people want, but that's my insight, for what it's worth.

[DrakeWurrum]

39 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Except such quests also draw specialists from elsewhere in the studio, thus slowing down that side of the development too, not just new frames.

Path of Exile has 170 people on their team and puts out major updates every 13 weeks like clockwork, with quite a lot of details put in.

Warframe has nearly double the people and can't be assed to do lore quests for the warframes they release?

Don't get me wrong. I love DE and this game. I love what they do. I'm just disappointed in them lately because I know they're better than this, especially when other independent studios are performing better.

Edited August 30, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Loza03]

22 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I would GLADLY accept a slower rate of new warframe releases in return for getting lore one-shot quests with every singly frame.

Nothing draws us in and connects us to the game's universe and lore than actually having to go through a short story for the frame's lore, like we did with Chains of Harrow or the Silver Grove.

Or the New Strange and Chroma? Wait, Chroma's just a macguffin in that plot and we learn nothing about him.

What about Atlas and the Jordas Precept? Wait, he's not even mentioned by name.

Uh, Patient Zero and Mesa? No, she's not even mentioned until the end.

Let's not forget that some of these quest Warframes have basically nothing to do with their quests and those stories could absolutely have been told with something else.

 

I like quests don't get me wrong, but tying them exclusively to Warframes without a good reason is weird and kind of cheapens both. Chains of Harrow really didn't need Harrow. It's about Rell, the Man in the Wall and us. Harrow characterisation really doesn't gel with Rell's aside from him spinning and fidgeting with things like an Autsitic person stims and maybe some themes of being sacrificial? Harrow could be a computer Rell transferred his consciousness into and nothing would change. Octavia's Anthem might tell us about Octavia's role in the Old War, but the story's really about the Cephalons and how these three intimately connected characters all interact in this world. And, y'know. Garuda and Vox Solaris. "Thanks mate, here's a blood lady we found in a mushroom."

By contrast, I think Tomb of Inaros, the Limbo theorem and the Sacrifice are all great times to put a frame into a quest. These all talk about characters or cultures and how the Tenno have affected them, or using those frames and Tenno as a vessel for those characters. Alternatively, the quest can be about the Warframe or Tenno culture as-is. Silver Grove doesn't really go into detail about New Loka, they're a vessel to learn about Silvana and Titania.

Warframes should only be tied to quests if they have a reason to be there, if they improve the quest. Subsequently, a frame doesn't have to come with a quest, and it's honestly bizarre if every single person we wind up helping out happens to be holding on to a Warframe blueprint or has a deep reason to connect with a frame. Having some frames have lore as in lore, old tales told about them in the past adds to the world. Gauss being the 'Saint of Altra' because he is this old legend people sometimes talk about, and modern-day archeologists went to the place and started digging about to find the truth is a more reasonable story. One of my favourite Ticker interaction is them telling us the story of Gara as a legend and that it's implied that their rebellious streak and willingness to gaze into something far larger than themselves is because of that story told them as a child. It adds weight to the world because of course Tenno exploits would be told on as legend in the future.

Leverian is, in effect a way to get the lore of frames without needing to paste them into a quest, letting any quests DE do choose to make breathe on their own.

[DrakeWurrum]

9 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Or the New Strange and Chroma? Wait, Chroma's just a macguffin in that plot and we learn nothing about him.

What about Atlas and the Jordas Precept? Wait, he's not even mentioned by name.

Uh, Patient Zero and Mesa? No, she's not even mentioned until the end.

Let's not forget that some of these quest Warframes have basically nothing to do with their quests and those stories could absolutely have been told with something else.

They could've done better with those, for sure. *shrugs*

9 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Chains of Harrow really didn't need Harrow. It's about Rell, the Man in the Wall and us. Harrow characterisation really doesn't gel with Rell's aside from him spinning and fidgeting with things like an Autsitic person stims and maybe some themes of being sacrificial? Harrow could be a computer Rell transferred his consciousness into and nothing would change. Octavia's Anthem might tell us about Octavia's role in the Old War, but the story's really about the Cephalons and how these three intimately connected characters all interact in this world.

Those two quests simply prove that the quest doesn't have to be about the frame to be damn good quests connected to the frame.

Atlas, Chroma, and Mesa are examples of it being done poorly. Harrow and Octavia are examples of it being done right. (Personally, I think Chroma was done okay but it was one of the game's earliest quests, so I can overlook it)

Of course, there's always room for improvement. Harrow's place in Chains of Harrow was that it was Rell's frame, and he was pretty much shackled to it for a thousand years. That's pretty big. Octavia could've used a bigger role in what was going on.

 

My main reason for my complaint is that just randomly dropping in a frame "here, grind this mode, get a new frame!" is just... it's boring. Sorry, but it is. The game doesn't need new frames. It's great to get more, sure. But a new frame is just... farm the parts, build it, farm Hydron. Back to not logging in.

At least with a single-shot quest, we get some fun story with it. There's no reason not to release short stories with each frame. They don't need to be major lore drops. They can just be fun pieces of the Warframe universe that have nothing to do with the main story. It doesn't take anything away from the game - it just adds more to it, fleshing out a better game.

Edited August 30, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[KnossosTNC]

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Path of Exile has 170 people on their team and puts out major updates every 13 weeks like clockwork, with quite a lot of details put in.

Warframe has nearly double the people and can't be assed to do lore quests for the warframes they release?

Don't get me wrong. I love DE and this game. I love what they do. I'm just disappointed in them lately because I know they're better than this, especially when other independent studios are performing better.

Two different games, and not even in the same genre; one's a third-person looter shooter, the other a Diablo clone. Who knows how different the developmental requirements and limitations are.

Warframe is not PoE, and DE is not GGG. To compare them directly at face value is to blindly disregard the multitude of possible differences we cannot even begin to speculate on. Stick to what we know and their own merits.

[DrakeWurrum]

42 minutes ago, KnossosTNC said:

Two different games, and not even in the same genre; one's a third-person looter shooter, the other a Diablo clone. Who knows how different the developmental requirements and limitations are.

Warframe is not PoE, and DE is not GGG. To compare them directly at face value is to blindly disregard the multitude of possible differences we cannot even begin to speculate on. Stick to what we know and their own merits.

It doesn't matter that they are different games, though you're wrong: they're the same genre. Both games are 100% centered around loot grind. The only genre difference is camera perspective (and seriously, that's not enough for games to be a different genre). They're still both RPG looters.

And I'm not comparing them directly. I'm simply expressing to you that PoE has *half the people* and puts out *four times* the content. They push themselves hard to maintain this schedule. If you have ever done programming of any kind, you would know it's really NOT that huge of a difference just because of camera styles, (though I will admit the warframe physics engine will be a lot of work). The mechanics and writing and voice over work, it's all still there. It's still a lot of work, and for you to just shrug it off as "Eh, whatever, different games" is actually very ignorant of what work does go into game development. Borderline disrespectful of both dev teams, frankly.

Let me ask you this: if DE's studio is so damn busy, and so damn over-worked, that they simply don't have the time to put in even a single lore quest... what are they working on? What have they released, this year? Since they started working on Gauss even? Did you know that Gauss has been in the pipeline since last year, for that matter?

Go take a look at the white board they showed off for their 2019 roadmap, if you need a reminder of what they've done. Nightwave, Deck 12, Gas City rework. That's it. And those weren't major updates. Empyrean has been in the works since just before Tennocon 2018. Duviri right now is nothing but a trailer. The new player experience is just a new cinematic, so far. Where's that melee rework at? New War is only going to sneak in right at the end of the year.
Credit to them for actually accomplishing a good amount of that roadmap. I'll give them that.

In this particular instance, we know they have the people. O

ne person or group of people can be working on the frame's art and 3D modeling, while another is working on the mechanics/abilities/etc, while another is writing up the story for a small sideline lore quest, and the VO people are completely separate from all of those (and arguably takes the most time). They don't really need new locations to pull it off, but they could have people prepping altered tilesets, if there is need in the written short story (like CoH having the bloody scene with Rell's disciples having slaughtered a bunch of grineer and left markings on the wall).
The work needed for Empyrean and New War is not SO demanding that they don't have time to work on that as well.

Again: I love the work they're doing. But the warframe partners know it even better than I'm explaining it to you: the devs are being very lazy. They procrastinate really hard. They can do more, they can do better. They're just not. Why else do you think the vast majority of Warframe's content creators aren't creating Warframe content anymore?

I'm not asking them to work a sweatshop, I'm just asking them to actually bring out their full potential, because I know it's there. Right now, with Warframe having no competition, they simply lack the motivation.

And I'm tired of people worshiping the ground they walk on for putting out even a small update.

Edited August 30, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[Gabbynaru]

Pretty sure that's on you. They've given that thing F all exposure, so of course it wouldn't be anything mind-blowing. The only reason something with F all exposure would be a disappointment is because you created unrealistic expectations by yourself. For the rest of us, we expected F all, we got F all, we got what we expected.

[DrakeWurrum]

5 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Pretty sure that's on you. They've given that thing F all exposure, so of course it wouldn't be anything mind-blowing. The only reason something with F all exposure would be a disappointment is because you created unrealistic expectations by yourself. For the rest of us, we expected F all, we got F all, we got what we expected.

I think the OP is more saying he's disappointed in DE's effort, more than in the leverian itself. Nobody really expected anything from this update.

Which is not a good thing for a "Mainline" update.

Edited August 30, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[KnossosTNC]

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

It doesn't matter that they are different games, though you're wrong: they're the same genre. Both games are 100% centered around loot grind. The only genre difference is camera perspective (and seriously, that's not enough for games to be a different genre). They're still both RPG looters.

And I'm not comparing them directly. I'm simply expressing to you that PoE has *half the people* and puts out *four times* the content. They push themselves hard to maintain this schedule. If you have ever done programming of any kind, you would know it's really NOT that huge of a difference just because of camera styles, (though I will admit the warframe physics engine will be a lot of work). The mechanics and writing and voice over work, it's all still there. It's still a lot of work, and for you to just shrug it off as "Eh, whatever, different games" is actually very ignorant of what work does go into game development. Borderline disrespectful of both dev teams, frankly.

Right. If you think they're so similar, let's see DE turn Warframe into something as close to PoE as possible and GGG do the vice versa. See how long and how much work that takes.

You forget, for example, higher definition assets, LOD details for large maps, differences in how textures, animations and sounds have to work, etc. "Four times the content" is meaningless, the only meaningfully comparable measure is man-hours put into them, which we have no clue of. That's not even mentioning that they use two completely different engines with different requirements and systems. Look at how the choice of the Frostbite engine influenced the development of Dragon Age: Inquisition, Mass Effect: Andromeda and Anthem, for example. Again, your comparison is based on assumptions.

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Let me ask you this: if DE's studio is so damn busy, and so damn over-worked, that they simply don't have the time to put in even a single lore quest... what are they working on? What have they released, this year? Since they started working on Gauss even? Did you know that Gauss has been in the pipeline since last year, for that matter?

More assumptions. Just because Gauss was "in the pipeline" since last year doesn't mean he was ready to play in May 2018 or something and DE were just nefariously sitting on him to make you suffer. Respawn Entertainment more recently revealed that it takes about 18 months to release a new hero for Apex Legends. That's a few models, some animation and two active abilities. Nearly 2 years from the drawing board to release. I'm not comparing Warframe to Apex Legends, I'm just saying we are lacking in the information of how game development at each individual studios work.

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Go take a look at the white board they showed off for their 2019 roadmap, if you need a reminder of what they've done. Nightwave, Deck 12, Gas City rework. That's it. Empyrean has been in the works since just before Tennocon 2018. Duviri right now is nothing but a trailer. The new player experience is just a new cinematic, so far. Where's that melee rework at? New War is only going to sneak in right at the end of the year.

It was mentioned that Empyrean in 2018 was a slapped-together concept demo that was prone to an explosion of bugs if pushed the wrong way; it was not even close to being ready for prime time. The Wukong Rework shows they are still working on Melee 3.0, and Steve mentioned in his recent stall-for-time stream that we'll see more in October. We've already seen quite a bit of working assets for The New War, so we know they are working on that too. That's three major projects we know for certain they are working on simultaneously. All this while they also release new frames, new Primes and work on other projects like Duviri and the New Player experience, for which we still have nothing but speculations. Again, you're acting like DE are cackling deviously while hiding perfect working versions of these things under their beds or something.

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

In this particular instance, we know they have the people. O

ne person or group of people can be working on the frame's art and 3D modeling, while another is working on the mechanics/abilities/etc, while another is writing up the story for a small sideline lore quest, and the VO people are completely separate from all of those (and arguably takes the most time). They don't really need new locations to pull it off, but they could have people prepping altered tilesets, if there is need in the written short story (like CoH having the bloody scene with Rell's disciples having slaughtered a bunch of grineer and left markings on the wall).
The work needed for Empyrean and New War is not SO demanding that they don't have time to work on that as well.

Yet more assumptions. As I already alluded to with my Apex Legends example, it may take significantly more work and therefore more manpower to do something you seem to think is so simple. We just don't know. That's not even counting the fact that, again, many developers are specialists with very specific expertise. It makes their individual contributions often even more crucial to the project as a whole. Say they have 6 level designers working on The New War, and you take two of them off to do what you suggested. That level design team has just been cut by 33%, with no replacement specialists to fill that gap while they're gone. Add that other specialist teams and their works often depend on the level design team meeting their schedules, and the whole project could easily grind to a halt. Again, it's not just frame releases you're slowing down.

5 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Again: I love the work they're doing. But the warframe partners know it even better than I'm explaining it to you: the devs are being very lazy. They procrastinate really hard. They can do more, they can do better. They're just not.

I'm not asking them to work a sweatshop, I'm just asking them to actually bring out their full potential, because I know it's there. Right now, with Warframe having no competition, they simply lack the motivation.

Right, because a bunch of random people have fancy logos, microphones and some video editing skills, they are somehow magically knees deep within DE, knowing every nook and cranny, and every one of their little secrets.

No, they don't know better. They're just players like the rest of us; all speculations and assumptions, and the importance of their opinions are all too often exaggerated.

Edited August 31, 2019 by KnossosTNC

[SilentMobius]

12 hours ago, Teljaxx said:

The whole thing feels like a waste of dev time to me. I would have much preferred something simple, like adding a couple pages of text to the codex for each frame. It would take way less time and effort to implement, leaving more resources for the things people are actually asking for. And, it would most likely be more interesting than a couple vague lines of dialogue.

Though, at least he does pronounce Gauss correctly.

Here's the thing.

If the whole story of the game was already set in stone and all someone has to do was inflate that into some diegetic text then sure, a page or two of text would be easier.

But here's my suspicion.

There are 150~ ish people who work on warframe and each time lore is mentioned (Like for the whole last 5 years) it's Steve who comments that he's the bottleneck. So I think that the Leverian is what you get when you have very little time with the only person steering the lore and a resonable amount of time spread among devs in other areas.

There was discussion about DE hireing a full-time writer a long time ago, we haven't heard anything since then.

Personally I liked the Leverian, expecially as I'm a Yorshireman and appreciated his accent. but I'm getting tired of information that doesn't actually help us live in the world, information that our Tenno should have by now. What I got out of the Lavarian was that there was a civil war-style fight at a tower on Ceres around the Orokin Era, that doesn't help my character with the game world.

Like, if someone has passed the Sacrifice I'd like to know who the first Gauss was before the Helminth process, what happened to him, why these are his powers, how much of him is left in that metal shell?

Even if there isn't a full quest they could be a single mission to revisit the Ruins of Altra, just do a sabotage-style mashup of derelict and ceres tileset tear through the rubble, defend a doodad from the infestation and get a small souvineer which gives gauss some peace.If you've got time, make one new tile which is the entrance to the tower, maybe make it a new defense map so it's not one-off content.

That could still happen, maybe for Gauss' first agument?

Edited August 30, 2019 by SilentMobius