Disruption is not sustainable content.

[pisces13]

I'm writing to voice my opinion on this persistent "content drought". How long I've been around to see warframe evolve. Changes in damage systems, warframe abilities, nerfs, buffs, failed promises, fashion frames, etc. There is always something though. DE seems to miss the mark regarding replayable content. It happened with ESO, open world maps, infested salvage, and now disruption.

Disruption game mode is decent. The enemies scale reasonably well enough to enjoy testing maximized builds. 2 things fall short however.

1. The rewards still suck.

2. Theres no reason to keep playing once you acquire what you want.

For the longest time I keep waiting for DE to come up with "good" rewards that would encourage players both veteran and new to play a mission for more than 5-10 minutes before deciding to jump out. The fact that newer items are placed in rotation c does not solve this problem. Once the item sought after is obtained, there is literally no point in playing the game mode ever again. Also about disruption, the most interesting buffed enemies bum rush a node and self destruct. What in the world is that about? The point is to let the players go head to head with these enemies. It defeats the point if the enemies commit seppuku 100% of the time.

Which leads to the next issue. The AI in warframe is atrocious. Their pathing is linear. They behave like mindless bots. Improved AI system adds a lot to the feel of gameplay. Adding emotions like anger and fear, or special animations they perform gives more realism. It adds more depth than enemies just mindlessly running to their deaths (Im looking at you infested).  

Next issue is the difficulty slider. There needs to be an option to increase enemy spawns to that similar to 4 squad survival, defense, mobile d, etc for solo players. Variation for enemies is long overdue. We are tired of fighting the same 4 types of enemies from each faction. Just add ghouls to grineer tilesets, increased bursas and comba units for corpus, and more scary infested units that blockheads. 

Give the players a challenge! Stop with the weird gimmics like efficiency in ESO or life support in survivals. I do not want to be limited by external factors. It just leads to annoying map nuking warframe builds and premature mission length of time.

I still remember one of my most fun and frustrating missions a few years when I first started the game. I jumped into a survival mission with a hell of a lot of scorpions harpooning me left and right. It was actually fun trying to find a way to defeat them. After getting wrecked, that mission caused me to grow stronger to get revenge. But then... it was removed, as most interesting things are.

As for rewards. Its never an easy thing to add nongame breaking items to the game. Ephemeras were a step in the right direction. Some rewards I want to see are:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

3. Rare useful mods. Give us alternatives than using serration and multishot mandatory mods. I prefer buffing base weapon dmg as it progresses in levels to 30 and removing serration type mods altogether to add more unique modding.

4. Rare warframe augments that actually change the way certain skills work. This gives wiggleroom to add uniqueness to play style.

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

These are some ideas that DE could work with. Its nothing gamebreaking and it could add some meat to this game. Meat is good! Rare meat is even better. 

 

 

[GinKenshin]

What is sustainable content to you? how do you define it? 

14 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

Also about disruption, the most interesting buffed enemies bum rush a node and self destruct. What in the world is that about? The point is to let the players go head to head with these enemies. It defeats the point if the enemies commit seppuku 100% of the time.

No, that's not the point. The point is to Try and kill a very tanky enemy who's rushing your objective, not knowing exactly where they're coming from, while dealing with a bunch of high level enemies. It's about one/few shoting the bomber in the first few minutes of the game and ignoring the spawns then having to take them out since they're getting stronger and higher numbers while dealing with an even beefier bomber 

 

If you want a gamemode with that point, then suggest one 

 

17 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

Give the players a challenge! Stop with the weird gimmics like efficiency in ESO or life support in survivals. I do not want to be limited by external factors. It just leads to annoying map nuking warframe builds and premature mission length of time.

gimmicks exist because there's no point in simply fighting enemies and getting rewards every rotation. People can just find a hiding spot and stay there for as long as they want to get the rewards and leave. 

 

19 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

As for rewards. Its never an easy thing to add nongame breaking items to the game. Ephemeras were a step in the right direction. Some rewards I want to see are:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

3. Rare useful mods. Give us alternatives than using serration and multishot mandatory mods. I prefer buffing base weapon dmg as it progresses in levels to 30 and removing serration type mods altogether to add more unique modding.

4. Rare warframe augments that actually change the way certain skills work. This gives wiggleroom to add uniqueness to play style.

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

It's funny you mention sustainable content and complain about disruption rewards you get once and never play the mode again, because from what I'm reading, all the rewards you suggest will suffer the same thing. 

[pisces13]

17 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

What is sustainable content to you? how do you define it? 

No, that's not the point. The point is to Try and kill a very tanky enemy who's rushing your objective, not knowing exactly where they're coming from, while dealing with a bunch of high level enemies. It's about one/few shoting the bomber in the first few minutes of the game and ignoring the spawns then having to take them out since they're getting stronger and higher numbers while dealing with an even beefier bomber 

 

If you want a gamemode with that point, then suggest one 

 

gimmicks exist because there's no point in simply fighting enemies and getting rewards every rotation. People can just find a hiding spot and stay there for as long as they want to get the rewards and leave. 

 

It's funny you mention sustainable content and complain about disruption rewards you get once and never play the mode again, because from what I'm reading, all the rewards you suggest will suffer the same thing. 

I just told you what sustainable content was. I mean if you like enemies killing themselves then you do. I dont.

If players are camping then DE is doing a bad job with AI.

No one says the rewards need to be locked behind any certain game mode. It could simply be a rare drop from certain enemies.

 

[ZarTham]

 

I really dunno how or why you'd think Disruption would be sustainable content. Hell, Empyrean will, supposedly, be sustainable content, and even I am a bit sceptic about it, but I wasn't surprised with Disruption.

1. The rewards still suck.

Have played it only in Kuva Fortress, and I was disappointed with the Kuva rewards. Can't comment on the other nodes.

2. There's no reason to keep playing once you acquire what you want.

I mean, aside from greedy people who want more and more, that's usually how it works, you get what you need and you're out, or you can find some other reason to farm disruption, maybe endurance runs? That is a challenge, defende all 4 conduits, there's probably a way to cheese this, but still....

As for the rest of your points, DE should just concentrate on making Empyrean actually replayable and good, and maybe even more modes like Elite Star Chart, customizable difficulty level, instead of pumping out new cosmetics, cosmetics aren't content, game modes are.

Edit: Regarding the last points, shouldn't they work on the armor scaling issue? Rather than giving out rare mods to buff damage, and by rare you mean 1.5% / 3% drop rates? People will complain about that and they did with ephemeras.

Edited September 2, 2019 by ZarTham

[CxLL]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

What do cosmetics sustain?

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

Never had this experience.Perhaps you should experiment with different builds.

The rest sounds like you know more about game development and programming than the developers. Perhaps it's time to apply for a job and solve all of the issues at once!
Here, this is the way -> https://www.digitalextremes.com/careers/postings/programming/senior-programmer-gameplaygeneralistsoftware-engineer

[(PSN)SnakeLogic]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

The AI in warframe is atrocious. Their pathing is linear. They behave like mindless bots. Improved AI system adds a lot to the feel of gameplay. Adding emotions like anger and fear, or special animations they perform gives more realism. It adds more depth than enemies just mindlessly running to their deaths (Im looking at you infested).  

I completely agree that the A.I needs an overhaul. I found this^ funny though.

Key word here is Infested, of course they mindlessly rush to their death 🙂

They might as well be zombies lol.

[Vit0Corleone]

Warframe doesn't have, and never had AFAIK, "sustainable content" available after you're done with everything ( the elusive "end game").

Sustainable content, as I would define it, implies a constant challenge<>reward loop that simply doesn't exist. You only really see this in the first few months when you're a new player.

In other words, you face a challenge, you get rewards, those rewards contribute to your progression, helping you get better so you can face the next harder challenge, rinse and repeat, challenge, reward, challenge, reward.. 

Several games implement this kind of loop in a way or another, but it's essentially always the same thing usually wrapped into creative approaches so it doesn't get too repetitive.

37 minutes ago, ZarTham said:

Empyrean will, supposedly, be sustainable content

How so? So far from what I've seen, nothing indicates that.

[KIREEK]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

3. Rare useful mods. Give us alternatives than using serration and multishot mandatory mods. I prefer buffing base weapon dmg as it progresses in levels to 30 and removing serration type mods altogether to add more unique modding.

4. Rare warframe augments that actually change the way certain skills work. This gives wiggleroom to add uniqueness to play style.

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

1. Meaning once you have what you obtained, you no longer need disruption, it also turns something usable into something unusable, aka no reward. What's the point of getting 2 of the same ephemera? Exactly
2. Cool, and what do you do with 10 of those?
3. More power creep, just what the game and the players need right?
4. Augments are tied with sindicates, to make them relevant
5. Invicible pets that grant buffs huh? aka a permanent and unremovable buff

I still don't see this will change anything, i mean sure you can trade the mods, but isn't resources, kuva and credits something you will constantly use and need, the more diversed are the missions to get them, the less boring they become, imagine if you had to do only kuva survival to get kuva, it's not the case so you have choice.

[HJKZ]

Seppuku 100%. Now that's real endgame.

[Tsukinoki]

4 hours ago, pisces13 said:

I just told you what sustainable content was

Except that you didn't....
All you said was "Give the players a challenge" (which is highly subjective) and then go on to list "Here are a bunch of rewards I want, oh yeah none of them are sustainable..."

You never once defined what would be sustainable rewards.  What would be an "ever-green" reward that you would be happy to get over and over and over again.

SO please tell us: How do you define "sustainable" content.

5 hours ago, pisces13 said:

For the longest time I keep waiting for DE to come up with "good" rewards that would encourage players both veteran and new to play a mission for more than 5-10 minutes before deciding to jump out. The fact that newer items are placed in rotation c does not solve this problem. Once the item sought after is obtained, there is literally no point in playing the game mode ever again.

How about you give some ideas of rewards that once you get them you won't mind getting them repeatedly.
Because all of the rewards that you've listed are the "one-and-done" type, where you get it once and it becomes a null drop from that point forwards.  Once you get one of the shiny ephemeras that you listed you want as a "good" reward, what is the point of getting it a second time?  Let alone a 50th time?

5 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Give the players a challenge! Stop with the weird gimmics like efficiency in ESO or life support in survivals. I do not want to be limited by external factors. It just leads to annoying map nuking warframe builds and premature mission length of time.

No matter what you try to do to players to "challenge" them, I can gaurantee you 100% that unless the mode your asking for takes place in a completely featureless cube that players will find some spot that enemies can't get to, or their attacks can't reach, and then AFK farm it with AoE weapons and abilities.

Those "gimmicks" as you call them exist to put a limiter on the player, and to provide something that essentially forces them out after long enough.
After all, it wouldn't do for a player to AFK their way through 36 hours of rewards, would it?

And as a note here: there are tons of areas that players can hide in where "better AI" wouldn't solve the problem.
Small nooks and crannies that are nearly out of the map area and are gimmicky as hell to wedge yourself in but provide 100% protection from the AI while providing enough movement room to avoid the AFK timers.  Spam a few powers from there, especially with Zenurik being a thing, and pull in your infinite rewards if they tried to do a mission your way...

This community has proved time and again that we can't be trusted in missions without timers or other "gimmicks".  I mean look at what DE had to do to capture missions to stop people camping those missions for 2+ hours.....

[pisces13]

Welp it's true after all. DE can do no wrong. We'll just sit on our butts and wait for whatever they give us like little children. When someone comes along and gives a different idea for diversity, the community will jump on them as if they know it all.

No one wants special armor, skins, improved ai, difficulty slider, more enemies. Rather just sit there while ghouls rot on plains right?  Content creation is right in front of you and you miss it. We shall wait on DE to save us until...they dont

[DrBorris]

6 hours ago, pisces13 said:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

3. Rare useful mods. Give us alternatives than using serration and multishot mandatory mods. I prefer buffing base weapon dmg as it progresses in levels to 30 and removing serration type mods altogether to add more unique modding.

4. Rare warframe augments that actually change the way certain skills work. This gives wiggleroom to add uniqueness to play style.

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

Except that none of these are sustainable either, once you get these items you are done. These items all take a fair amount of dev time to create each, so that is a lot of effort to make something that will not add "staying power".

The keys to "sustainable rewards" in my opinion are...

• Has a purpose to be obtained many times (Arcanes), if not infinity in need (Kuva).
• Every single reward adds something, getting a thing so you can grind that other thing sucks.
• Isn't a blatant power increase, you don't want to lock power-creep behind an endless grind.

 

18 minutes ago, pisces13 said:

Welp it's true after all. DE can do no wrong. We'll just sit on our butts and wait for whatever they give us like little children. When someone comes along and gives a different idea for diversity, the community will jump on them as if they know it all.

No one wants special armor, skins, improved ai, difficulty slider, more enemies. Rather just sit there while ghouls rot on plains right?  Content creation is right in front of you and you miss it. We shall wait on DE to save us until...they dont

Lol, people point out things that are wrong with your assumptions and your response is to call them all white knights. Yeah, some of us Forum warriors are a bit grizzled, but that is because we see the same stuff over and over and over again.

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

Welp it's true after all. DE can do no wrong. We'll just sit on our butts and wait for whatever they give us like little children. When someone comes along and gives a different idea for diversity, the community will jump on them as if they know it all.

When has this  come up?
We're just pointing out issues with your assumptions and suggestions, not blindly defending DE like you're saying we are.

You say you want "sustainable content"...and yet you never define sustainable content.
We point out that the rewards you say would make you play new modes isn't sustainable, and you attack us instead of telling us what sustainable rewards would be.

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

No one wants special armor, skins, improved ai, difficulty slider, more enemies. Rather just sit there while ghouls rot on plains right?  Content creation is right in front of you and you miss it. We shall wait on DE to save us until...they dont

Where did we say this?
We just pointed out that "special armor, skins" isn't sustainable...and would take a lot of effort and not solve the problem you're having.
No one is complaining about having better AI...but again that wouldn't solve the problems you're stating here and in a game like WF would require massive reworks to be effective (Who cares how smart a mob is if it is deleted 0.5 seconds after it spawns before its AI can do anything).
No one is against having a difficulty slider...but again it wouldn't solve the problems you're stating here.

None of what you stated would make "sustainable" content...not for you from your own arguments and not for many other players.
For some players new disruption mode is new content to play that's fun.  For other users its not content in any way and was a waste of Dev time.
For some players new frames and weapons is new content.  For other players its not new content.

So how about this:
Define "sustainable" content.  Try to come up with a mode and rewards that are always rewarding, regardless if you get them the first time or the fiftieth time.
What do you see as "content"?  What do you think would keep people playing the modes over and over and over again?
Those are the problems that you ostensibly are bringing up as well as solutions to them...and yet you haven't provided any solutions to the problems you brought up.

People aren't defending DE here.  We aren't being white knights.  We are just pointing out problems with your ideas and assumptions, maybe you should defend them properly.

[GibsonPrime]

The problem with being rewarded with "stuff" is you will, eventually, have all the "stuff".  Like all the rewards you metnioned and, undoubtedly, like anything that comes with Empyrean or any other update. 

Unless the "stuff" drop rate is obscenely rare, then you are at the behest of RNGsus, which is also not good.  Likely people will either luckily get it (perhaps then going back to making posts wanting more), get salty after 1000 runs with no drop, or not bother at all.

Edited September 2, 2019 by GibsonPrime

[sinnae]

14 hours ago, pisces13 said:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

3. Rare useful mods. Give us alternatives than using serration and multishot mandatory mods. I prefer buffing base weapon dmg as it progresses in levels to 30 and removing serration type mods altogether to add more unique modding.

4. Rare warframe augments that actually change the way certain skills work. This gives wiggleroom to add uniqueness to play style.

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

These are some ideas that DE could work with. Its nothing gamebreaking and it could add some meat to this game. Meat is good! Rare meat is even better. 

 

 

This is all stuff that you collect once and then are done with. Sustainability comes from replayability, game modes that you replay for the sake of replaying. Disruption may not have gotten it totally right, but skins and collectibles miss the mark even harder.

[Falseliberty]

OP I think your wrong, but I mean I guess they can make all the drops 2-5% to make the event last longer since you want rewards to last for longer grind. I swear it's like people know they want SOMETHING , but they have no idea what it is. How would DE even address this lol

Don't get me wrong I'm sure there has been somewhere a few good ideas posted in the past year but it's soo dam buried under everyone else sucking up the oxygen and crying.

[Duality52]

15 hours ago, pisces13 said:

As for rewards. Its never an easy thing to add nongame breaking items to the game. Ephemeras were a step in the right direction. Some rewards I want to see are:

1. rare skins- this can be for attachments, warframe skins,  pets, sentinal, landing craft, literally anything

2. More ephemeras with prevalent but not over-the-top gfx. The prime accessory ephemera is a bit much.

3. Rare useful mods. Give us alternatives than using serration and multishot mandatory mods. I prefer buffing base weapon dmg as it progresses in levels to 30 and removing serration type mods altogether to add more unique modding.

4. Rare warframe augments that actually change the way certain skills work. This gives wiggleroom to add uniqueness to play style.

5. Rare pet mod that grant invincibility while nerfing pet dmg delt. This works so squishy frames can have pets that wont die every 2 seconds in harder missions. DE almost did well with this by adding tek assault. Almost*

I'm quite surprised that you did not mention any Axi Relics, which is by far the hardest era of Relics to farm. Most of us want a different Axi farm other than Xini, Hieracon, Bounties and so forth.

As others pointed out, cosmetics are just going to clog up the reward table for no good reason like Captura Scenes (unless it's a separate drop like Exploiter Orb's case).

Edited September 2, 2019 by Duality52

[Vit0Corleone]

9 hours ago, DrBorris said:

The keys to "sustainable rewards" in my opinion are...

• Has a purpose to be obtained many times (Arcanes), if not infinity in need (Kuva).
• Every single reward adds something, getting a thing so you can grind that other thing sucks.
• Isn't a blatant power increase, you don't want to lock power-creep behind an endless grind.

The only problem is that eventually you get to a point where none of those things really matter, simply because there's no challenging content where you could actually need them.

This is, I think, what veterans people that have "beat the game" complaint about.

The only realistic solution to feed that, would be a sustainable challenge<>reward system that doesn't really exist in Warframe, and never did AFAIK.

Something like what games like Division 2 do, where when you beat the game you jump tiers, and are invited basically to do it all again, but with better rewards and increasing challenges ( along side with changes to keep things fresh - like, say all the star chart is invaded by Sentients ;-) ). Rinse and repeat, with enough creativity to avoid too much repetition, you have a successful challenge<>reward loop.

I don't really see Warframe doing something like this, although it would definitely be interesting IMHO.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Vit0Corleone

[-HoB-KurtOn]

That moment the OP is 90% right, and the community still bashes him about the 10% disregarding the other 90%..What a sad day it is.

Good job @pisces13 , i for one, have nothing negative to say, good feedback 🙂

[sinnae]

47 minutes ago, -HoB-KurtOn said:

That moment the OP is 90% right, and the community still bashes him about the 10% disregarding the other 90%..What a sad day it is.

Good job @pisces13 , i for one, have nothing negative to say, good feedback 🙂

You're right, but it might be because the 10% you're talking about took up 90% of the space. You can't just post a huge numbered list and expect people to ignore it 😄 

I think putting Axi relics into Disruption like others have suggested would solve the problem, because those are always, always in demand.

[GibsonPrime]

6 hours ago, -HoB-KurtOn said:

That moment the OP is 90% right, and the community still bashes him about the 10% disregarding the other 90%..What a sad day it is.

Good job @pisces13 , i for one, have nothing negative to say, good feedback 🙂

You're talking about where OP mentions AI improvements, a difficulty slider and more skill based challenge?  I support these ideas, but not sure how they lead to "sustainable content".  I have made posts in the past surrounding a "Star Map Plus" and bosses oriented around something other than outright DPS (to which orbs and eidolons are a step towards i.e you don't just run in and insta-gib them). 

I still enjoy running random missions or trying different builds, so yeah, additions like these would be awesome, but, you need to be in it for the fun of it, rather than the rewards.  Or, we go back to talking about sustainable rewards.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by GibsonPrime

[DrBorris]

7 hours ago, -HoB-KurtOn said:

That moment the OP is 90% right, and the community still bashes him about the 10% disregarding the other 90%..What a sad day it is.

Good job @pisces13 , i for one, have nothing negative to say, good feedback 🙂

Well, given their suggestions for "fixing" sustainable content are unsustainable, it shows a lack of understanding of the core issues at hand. And the other suggestions show a lack of forethought as well.

But to be fair, I'll explain.

OP Suggests: Make the AI better

• But... why? Seriously, why do you want the AI of Warframe to be intelligent? Warframe is not a game where you face off against single intelligent enemies, it is a game about taking on armies of enemies. And this is not to say that it should not be more "difficult", but making the individual enemies smarter is pointless if individual enemies die in .025 seconds. You would never see enemies cower in fear because they are already dead. And this is not to say that AI improvements would not be welcome, but they shouldn't be improvements to individual enemy AI. Because it is armies we are fighting, it is the army as a whole that should be smarter. A more intelligent 'meta AI' that dictates where/when units spawn would be welcome. But much like with the "sustainable rewards" suggestions, what the OP suggests shows a lack of understanding of the actual problems.

OP Suggests: Difficulty Slider

• But... why? How are you even defining "difficulty" in Warframe? And please don't say enemy level... A slider also denotes the need for a difference in difficulty, further segmenting the playerbase. I have been a long proponent of more Nox/Bursa type enemies, but they should be integrated into a consistent feel for the game. A difficulty slider is just a band-aid solution, the core problem still exists.
• Also, why would anyone ever make content more difficult? Some of those amazing "sustainable rewards"?

OP Suggests: Stop the "gimmicks"

• But... what is a gimmick? Something "artificial"? Ya know, artificial, like enemy health/armor/damage scaling. Given the mechanics that exist today in Warframe there needs to be these artificial limiters because without them we will never need to stop. DE clearly doesn't want the best way to farm to be to stay hours into a mission, a lot of people don't like that type of content and would feel left out. And as much as I like endurance, endurance missions are not the answer to "difficulty". Again, relying on endurance and exponential enemy scaling is just a band-aid and is the most "artificial" solution I can think of.

Game design is hard, I have no illusion that I understand it myself, so I get a bit tired of "just fix it, it is easy" threads.

Edited September 3, 2019 by DrBorris

[Tyreaus]

I mean, they seemed to be going toward 'sustainable' rewards with the Echoes of Umbra: temporary item that needs to be refreshed with resources dropped from x gamemode. The main problem mentioned in feedback I saw was that it wasn't worth all the trouble to get it for such a short time, but that's more of a balance issue (time and fuss spent versus reward efficacy or value) than a problem with the core concept. I could have missed something, but if sustainable / repeatable content is the goal, that might be a way to go.

[Aldain]

2 hours ago, DrBorris said:

But... why? Seriously, why do you want the AI of Warframe to be intelligent? Warframe is not a game where you face off against single intelligent enemies, it is a game about taking on armies of enemies.

There's a difference between Devil May Cry level intelligent enemies and walking hit-boxes with turrets stapled to them.

The current A.I. of enemies is very, very, VERY stupid, even enemies in comparable shooters tend to have some sort of tactics to pose some threat, look at the Wolf of Saturn Six, his A.I. was literally "Walk forward, Swing Hammer" 90% of the time.

The smartest things that the A.I. will do is gather behind shield enemies or duck into nullifier bubbles, but even then that is inconsistent at best and we kill things so fast that they don't even have time to use most tactics. Hek, even the knockdown that Heavy Grineer units have isn't a strategy, it is something they do as soon as you're in range of it with no consideration of "If I do this now, my allies will have a clear shot at the Tenno".

It also doesn't need to be every enemy, basic grunt units can stay as dumb as a bag of rocks, they are supposed to be cannon fodder, but stronger or more complex enemies shouldn't be the same boulder brained chumps that are supposedly below them.

It doesn't have to be anything major or industry changing, but a few more tactical aspects of the enemies would at least make them feel less like walking HP bars.

[Uchiokoshi]

Le 02/09/2019 à 08:51, pisces13 a dit :

For the longest time I keep waiting for DE to come up with "good" rewards that would encourage players both veteran and new to play a mission for more than 5-10 minutes before deciding to jump out. The fact that newer items are placed in rotation c does not solve this problem. Once the item sought after is obtained, there is literally no point in playing the game mode ever again.

I'm also borred of 10 mins runs cause there's no rewards farther. I tried to bring mates in endurance run but most of them was not insterested in it cause "there's no rewards". We are in a little clan and there's not a lot of "challenger player". We are roughtly 3 that are looking for real endurance runs for our "personal record".

Lats days we talked about some solutions to get more people involved in this runs and there came an idea. We are only 3 so not enought (and probably not enought objective) to say if it's a good one or not but here it is:

Why disruption (cause that's what we're talking about) should stop at rotation C. For the kuva one for example. Why can't we get a reward increase each succesfull round completed. I mean today your gain stop at 350 kuva/ round. Why can't we get an increase of 50kuva/round ?

We can do the same for Arbitrations with endo.

 

I think the real problem here is that DE stay stuck in is Rotation rewards system. In this way we never going to see real endurance runs again. You get maximum rewards for 20min survival ? Eh, get out and in again, no point to get the same reward in an harder way no ? That's prety basical but much comprehensive.

 

(Sorry for my bad english, not my native language)