Why is Banshee so forgotten ?!

[(PSN)LobaBurglars]

Hello dear friends

I decided to take this week to test my lovely Banshee, tested several builds, be it tank, strength, or range, and of course mixing everything and see what happens, but playing with her I realized that she is very weak compared to other characters, not so weak because in the refereeing I got 55 minutes with her without any problems, only in that I realized that in her skill kit there is not even a buff or something that could help to go any further than after the nerf she became part of the forgotten frames, as well as Atlas. I see Banshee as a great character in the game, but like all warframes in the game I think she needs a rework too, and would be very welcome, I would like to see her more present in the game, you created a fantastic being because hide she.

Thanks for listening.

[x_xGamerx_x]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hendyliz said:

but playing with her I realized that she is very weak compared to other characters,

i have to disagree with you on that, Banshee is an amazing low level clearer and also has some great damage and survival abilities.

Spoiler

For low level i suggest running quake. On high level try to max silence and radar.

 

[Yuri_Doujinshi]

Rather than buffing herself, Banshee revolves around debuffing enemies. I suggest playing around more with her 2nd and 3rd abilities, and experimenting with some of her augments as well; in particular, Resonance, Savage Silence, and Sonic Fracture are ones you might find interesting.

[Birdframe_Prime]

There’s always Valhalla Banshee where you use Silence on a neutral range and long duration and melee scaling to take advantage of the fact that running at enemies with Silence stuns them and allows for the 8x melee multiplier from ‘stealth’ attacking an unaware enemy.

Basically hang the whole concept of a tank or room clearer or wide area CC, just run at enemies with a Zaw polearm, stun them passively as you approach, then melee them for massive damage during the stun window.

A good combo with this is the Invisible Assassin build with Arcane Trickery and the Skiajati, which both have the chance to turn you invisible when you use a Finisher. Silence opens enemies up to Finishers, so perfect combo.

With the first build I solo’d an hour of Mot before my first death and with the second I got even further.

It’s also how I maxed my Focus out when farming because you can abuse the Stealth Multiplier to gain 500% affinity from kills. So heading into Kappa Spy with the Naramon school’s passive that buffs Affinity gained by melee, two Eidolon lenses (you can speed it up further with Lua Lenses now, one for Banshee, one for the weapon) and a healthy attitude for mulching enemies would net around 35k Focus, or 70k with a booster on.

Eso came out after I finished Focus, so... no clue how that would have affected anything.

But yeah, some Banshee builds will surprise you if you give them the chance.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Birdframe_Prime

[Aldain]

I think Banshee is forgotten for similar reasons as Vauban, there are other frames that can do either what she does better or do things that make her abilities not worth the hassle.

[kgabor]

Like already said, try the augments, try Arcane Trickery (if you have them)and forget Quake exists.

Try different weapons, different ranges with Silence and see what works best for you.

Banshee could use some changes, but not the kinds of changes most meta-casual players would find comfortable, this is a high effort-high reward frame that will take hundreds of hours to have fun by properly mastering it, not an easy one.

Personally i had some ideas about how to change Banshee's kit that would actually improve its synergy and add survivability options without reducing the effort required to play the frame, it's similar to Arcane Trickery but with headshot kills as a trigger, i also had other changes to existing abilities in mind, like Sonar weakspots slowly aligning with head hitboxes and slightly increasing Sonic Boom's range, plus adding a slider to Silence's range.

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Hendyliz:

Hello dear friends

I decided to take this week to test my lovely Banshee, tested several builds, be it tank, strength, or range, and of course mixing everything and see what happens, but playing with her I realized that she is very weak compared to other characters, not so weak because in the refereeing I got 55 minutes with her without any problems, only in that I realized that in her skill kit there is not even a buff or something that could help to go any further than after the nerf she became part of the forgotten frames, as well as Atlas. I see Banshee as a great character in the game, but like all warframes in the game I think she needs a rework too, and would be very welcome, I would like to see her more present in the game, you created a fantastic being because hide she.

Thanks for listening.

killed by nerfing...

Edited September 6, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease

[NinjaZeku]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

killed by nerfing...

No.

Her old Resonating Quake was even stupider than Saryn is nowadays,
you could continuously lock down / wipe clear e.g. an entire (big) Interception map while AFK,
that was just not balanced at all, the Augment in its initial form was a mistake, clear and simple.

[If you were talking about something different, please clarify, I'm not aware of any "nerfs" other than that.]

Banshee was and still is an immensely potent enemy debuffer,
it's just that there's little content played nowadays where that level of powah would truly be appreciated,
so some "everyday use" buffs to her seem not out of line to me (she doesn't need to be that squishy, for one).

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

Banshee was forgotten because of her resonating quake change, and due to how you have to play her. 

Banshee epitomizes the “Glass Cannon” ideal, and when played right can be the best dps frame available. However, she has limitations other frames done have. Isnt as innately tanky as Sayrn/Mesa, requires guns to deal damage and cant rely on abilities, and her damage buffs are similar to harrow in the fact that you need to aim to make proper use of them. But when you do, oh boy, do you do damage. 

 

 

this damage was only capable due to banshee 

[TheInternetGuy]

Wait, this frame existed?

[-Equi-]

Am 6.9.2019 um 09:07 schrieb (PS4)Hendyliz:

 

Am 6.9.2019 um 09:07 schrieb (PS4)Hendyliz:

skill kit there is not even a buff or something

 

Hmm, her 2? You can reach a 16x Damage Buff with Sonar, but who cares. Lul

[Birdframe_Prime]

31 minutes ago, -VS-Equi said:

Hmm, her 2? You can reach a 16x Damage Buff with Sonar, but who cares. Lul

My friend, I'm not sure you know, but just in case I'll inform you that it's compounding stacks.

If you cast it more than once and the weak spots overlap at the point you shoot, they compound the multiplier rather than just adding to it. So that 16x at max? Overlap two and instead of 16x or 32x you actually get 256x.

If you only got to, say 8x with her two, if you cast it twice and if the spots overlap, it's 64x damage. Even a low-strength Sonar can stack, and even a low-strength can achieve silly numbers. Her neutral is 5x, and a double cast (or a multi-cast from Resonance) can make that 25x, and a triple stack can make that 125x damage.

Now, I don't know about you, but if you didn't know it did that, then that's probably why people have been sleeping on Banshee as a team buff frame. Especially with Resonance equipped to spawn more casts of Sonar for free just by killing enemies by hitting that weak spot.

She's not so useful in Eidolons or Orbs, but if you actually want to make a S#&$ty weapon into an awesome one, or buff an entire team's damage output to insane levels, Banshee is your girl.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Thing is the aspects of the game Banshee really excels at have either been powercreeped to a point where her abilities aren't needed, or straight up become useless. The amount of players do now with weapons both makes sonar and CC a subpar option, since they can without any buffs a. kill even ele enhanced sortie enemies without any buffs and b. can kill enemies more easily than CCing them.

She's still pretty powerful in the right situations, and does have her niches, but for general gameplay(i include sorties and eso in that) she just doesn't have the same appeal as many other frames. She has received basically no changes to her base abilities apart from a slight nerf to her silence and a QoL change to her sonar casting mechanic. Apart from that she's basically been the same frame she was 7 years ago.

She doesn't need much to make her more fun to play. Just a few changes to make her abilities more useful in day to day gameplay.

Edited September 7, 2019 by AuroraSonicBoom

[Birdframe_Prime]

Okay, because the thread is full of people discussing builds that currently work, why don't we have a little theory session of what we could change that could make her work better without changing what each ability does at base or how you cast it?

The way I see it, her passive and her Silence overlap a lot, and her Sound Quake is kind of pointless to her unless you've got an entire team around you to make sure enemies don't tap you while you're on the floor vulnerable.

So let's buff Silence a little. Yes pass her Passive on to team members, yes stun enemies so that they're vulnerable to damage for a few seconds, but what about after that? What does the ability do between if you have a high range? Pretty much nothing besides what her Passive already does.

Let's make it more of a buff, maybe with some combo nature. If Silence is active, casting Sonar creates a longer stagger animation and disorients enemies so that they have to re-acquire you as a target before they can start shooting. Simple synergy that encourages the use of both together. For each enemy killed while Silence is active and in range of its aura, Banshee gains a stacking damage reduction up to a cap that then decays over time. Because of the decay she can time this so that it lasts beyond the cast's duration and allows her to re-cast Silence to continue the buff with further kills.

And Sound Quake is the tough one. How about, instead of little waves that deal low amounts of damage every second, staggers enemies and leaves Banshee fully vulnerable, how about we give it that animation that was in the Prime Trailer for her? It pumps out in a sine wave from her, and pushes enemies away with each pulse (including flying enemies). While the base stats are low, if an enemy has a Sonar marker on them they take multiplied damage, and if Silence is active, enemies in range have their armour reduced by a percentage of their current amount (not total, current) with each sine wave impact.

Now, since this buff requires Silence to be active, this is a nice little self-limiting function because the ability pushes enemies away, and Silence has the same Range currently, so it will prevent enemies from walking back in (due to stunning them on the edge of it). So enemies would have to be quite close in order for them to have really significant armour reduction, but it would still be powerful considering it currently isn't line-of-sight and could technically trap enemies into corners or corridors to prevent them escaping.

And on top of that, since Sonar is required for the additional damage it means that the players are encouraged to dip in and out of Sound Quake in order to keep the Sonar marking active.

Of course, I hear you cry, why would any of this be relevant with her augmented 1 able to completely strip armour? For one, that's a ragdoll move that scatters enemies making it difficult for you to properly follow up with weapon damage, for another it's not permanent, for another it's not radial and for another her 1 deals almost negative damage against higher level enemies.

And then there's the problem that people will point out; is this ability Dependency? I would say... only sort of. If your goal is to deal damage in a wide area with her abilities alone, then yeah, you depend on casting her 2, 3 and 4 in sequence to keep that up. If your goal is to make a run-and-gun frame or the Valhalla build I mentioned earlier, no. Actually, the Valhalla build would only be buffed by this kind of change. If your goal is to play Interception where keeping enemies off your point and only killing them at the end of the mission is a priority, then this makes for a way, way better frame. And if your goal is just to buff your team's damage overall and not die very easily, then Banshee's pretty much exactly the same.

At least she would now have the option to survive better, with damage reduction, and to deal damage with her abilities better, thanks to the synergies.

What do you guys think?

[AuroraSonicBoom]

27 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Okay, because the thread is full of people discussing builds that currently work, why don't we have a little theory session of what we could change that could make her work better without changing what each ability does at base or how you cast it?

The way I see it, her passive and her Silence overlap a lot, and her Sound Quake is kind of pointless to her unless you've got an entire team around you to make sure enemies don't tap you while you're on the floor vulnerable.

So let's buff Silence a little. Yes pass her Passive on to team members, yes stun enemies so that they're vulnerable to damage for a few seconds, but what about after that? What does the ability do between if you have a high range? Pretty much nothing besides what her Passive already does.

Let's make it more of a buff, maybe with some combo nature. If Silence is active, casting Sonar creates a longer stagger animation and disorients enemies so that they have to re-acquire you as a target before they can start shooting. Simple synergy that encourages the use of both together. For each enemy killed while Silence is active and in range of its aura, Banshee gains a stacking damage reduction up to a cap that then decays over time. Because of the decay she can time this so that it lasts beyond the cast's duration and allows her to re-cast Silence to continue the buff with further kills.

And Sound Quake is the tough one. How about, instead of little waves that deal low amounts of damage every second, staggers enemies and leaves Banshee fully vulnerable, how about we give it that animation that was in the Prime Trailer for her? It pumps out in a sine wave from her, and pushes enemies away with each pulse (including flying enemies). While the base stats are low, if an enemy has a Sonar marker on them they take multiplied damage, and if Silence is active, enemies in range have their armour reduced by a percentage of their current amount (not total, current) with each sine wave impact.

Now, since this buff requires Silence to be active, this is a nice little self-limiting function because the ability pushes enemies away, and Silence has the same Range currently, so it will prevent enemies from walking back in (due to stunning them on the edge of it). So enemies would have to be quite close in order for them to have really significant armour reduction, but it would still be powerful considering it currently isn't line-of-sight and could technically trap enemies into corners or corridors to prevent them escaping.

And on top of that, since Sonar is required for the additional damage it means that the players are encouraged to dip in and out of Sound Quake in order to keep the Sonar marking active.

Of course, I hear you cry, why would any of this be relevant with her augmented 1 able to completely strip armour? For one, that's a ragdoll move that scatters enemies making it difficult for you to properly follow up with weapon damage, for another it's not permanent, for another it's not radial and for another her 1 deals almost negative damage against higher level enemies.

And then there's the problem that people will point out; is this ability Dependency? I would say... only sort of. If your goal is to deal damage in a wide area with her abilities alone, then yeah, you depend on casting her 2, 3 and 4 in sequence to keep that up. If your goal is to make a run-and-gun frame or the Valhalla build I mentioned earlier, no. Actually, the Valhalla build would only be buffed by this kind of change. If your goal is to play Interception where keeping enemies off your point and only killing them at the end of the mission is a priority, then this makes for a way, way better frame. And if your goal is just to buff your team's damage overall and not die very easily, then Banshee's pretty much exactly the same.

At least she would now have the option to survive better, with damage reduction, and to deal damage with her abilities better, thanks to the synergies.

What do you guys think?

I think you're mostly on the right path there. None of her abilities are outright useless, but if they did have small effects that are more reliable and permanent it'd elevate the engagement and fun players can have with her in average missions. Perma stagger and millions of damage are nice, but to be honest, those aren't really as fun to execute and see the result of as throwing enemies against the wall with sonic boom.

The changes, or rather additions I've been proposing for years now are pretty similar to yours. Usually you see people just asking for ability replacements or "make quake mobile", which changes the character of the ability fundamentally, and the frame with it. I also believe you shouldn't go too overboard with synergies, as that can quickly make understanding every nuance of a frame a bit too complex and button mashy as we've seen with Saryn's 1st rework.

As far as my opinion is concerned, these are the changes I'd make to her abilities.

Make all but the four cast while move abilities.

Buff Sonic Boom's damage to about 200 and allow it to always hit a sonar spot - counteracting the lackluster damage

Make enemies within Silence's range 50% more likely to suffer impact/blast procs, and take longer to recover - scaling with strength - this simulates a messed up sense of balance.

Give Quake a channel mode that ramps up in energy consumption but also increases the chance of it hitting a sonar spot. Alternatively, call it 'flux mode', have it cost twice as much and randomly choose the body parts it targets on enemies.

 

That way you have simple, easy to understand synergies. Sonic Boom and Sound Quake benefit from Sonar and Silence being up, as well Impact/Blast weapons benefit from Silence.

Sure, you can go a lot deeper and allow Sonar to target the same body part the player is aiming at on all affected enemies, but while nice it won't do a lot to improve the level of polish and usefulness as much as the changes further above.

[Midas]

On 2019-09-06 at 3:07 AM, (PS4)Hendyliz said:

Hello dear friends

I decided to take this week to test my lovely Banshee, tested several builds, be it tank, strength, or range, and of course mixing everything and see what happens, but playing with her I realized that she is very weak compared to other characters, not so weak because in the refereeing I got 55 minutes with her without any problems, only in that I realized that in her skill kit there is not even a buff or something that could help to go any further than after the nerf she became part of the forgotten frames, as well as Atlas. I see Banshee as a great character in the game, but like all warframes in the game I think she needs a rework too, and would be very welcome, I would like to see her more present in the game, you created a fantastic being because hide she.

Thanks for listening.

You should absolutely NOT touch banshee.

She has a great endurance kit going for her right now if you think a bit, if for some reason you cannot figure it out, I can help guide you there.

Banshee is one of the most powerful debuffers in this game.

I have been playing Banshee for 6 years since her release.

[TaylorsContraction]

the only ability I'm not a fan of on banshee is her 4. I don't even use it on high level content,  wish they works change her ultimate to something better than low level instant wave clear

[JackHargreav]

16 hours ago, Midas said:

You should absolutely NOT touch banshee.

She has a great endurance kit going for her right now if you think a bit, if for some reason you cannot figure it out, I can help guide you there.

Banshee is one of the most powerful debuffers in this game.

I have been playing Banshee for 6 years since her release.

I personally never saw Banshee as an endurance frame. How the heck do you stay alive with her at all?

[-Equi-]

Am 7.9.2019 um 10:43 schrieb Birdframe_Prime:

My friend, I'm not sure you know, but just in case I'll inform you that it's compounding stacks.

If you cast it more than once and the weak spots overlap at the point you shoot, they compound the multiplier rather than just adding to it. So that 16x at max? Overlap two and instead of 16x or 32x you actually get 256x.

If you only got to, say 8x with her two, if you cast it twice and if the spots overlap, it's 64x damage. Even a low-strength Sonar can stack, and even a low-strength can achieve silly numbers. Her neutral is 5x, and a double cast (or a multi-cast from Resonance) can make that 25x, and a triple stack can make that 125x damage.

Now, I don't know about you, but if you didn't know it did that, then that's probably why people have been sleeping on Banshee as a team buff frame. Especially with Resonance equipped to spawn more casts of Sonar for free just by killing enemies by hitting that weak spot.

She's not so useful in Eidolons or Orbs, but if you actually want to make a S#&$ty weapon into an awesome one, or buff an entire team's damage output to insane levels, Banshee is your girl.

Thanks for give me this information that I already know.

[Midas]

21 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I personally never saw Banshee as an endurance frame. How the heck do you stay alive with her at all?

So it is actually quite easy and popular. You essentially take Skijati for invisibility + two arcane trickieries, once the trickeries proc utilize your sonar for your teammates or yourself to pop off in damage. Make sure you have Resonance and savage silence on for augments. You will remain invisible for the rest of the game if you follow this process and provide amazing debuffs. If you wanna play even safer, drop a ancient healing specter + magus lockdown, the specter gives you a free 90% damage reduction. STAY AWAY from teammates bullet paths as you may get hit by a stray bullet. You must learn the ways of stealth frame. If you have an Octavia on your team drop savage silence and just go nuts.

There are many ways to stay alive Tenno

Invisibility is one of them for your more squishy frames.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Midas

[JackHargreav]

2 minutes ago, Midas said:

So it is actually quite easy and popular. You essentially take Skijati for invisibility + two arcane trickieries, once the trickeries proc utilize your sonar for your teammates or yourself to pop off in damage. Make sure you have Resonance and savage silence on for augments. You will remain invisible for the rest of the game if you follow this process and provide amazing debuffs. If you wanna play even safer, drop a ancient healing specter + magus lockdown, the specter gives you a free 90% damage reduction. STAY AWAY from teammates bullet paths as you may get hit by a stray bullet. You must learn the ways of stealth frame. If you have an Octavia on your team drop savage silence and just go nuts.

If it needs arcanes I won't bother. Unless those arcanes are cheap. The only arcane i ever used is arcane nullify and that's because it's cheap and easy to get.

[Midas]

5 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

If it needs arcanes I won't bother. Unless those arcanes are cheap. The only arcane i ever used is arcane nullify and that's because it's cheap and easy to get.

20p maxed each, how cheap is that! Really good deals ez builds

going for 10p maxed on wf.market actually LOL

Also little advice for Tenno that utilize maxed arcanes, you get a total of 6 revives! (1 per maxed arcane on your warframe).

Edited September 8, 2019 by Midas

[JackHargreav]

1 minute ago, Midas said:

20p maxed each, how cheap is that! Really good deals ez builds

going for 10p maxed on wf.market actually LOL

Holy moly. There is actually a chance for me to like this frame then. #*!% yeah!

[Midas]

6 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Holy moly. There is actually a chance for me to like this frame then. #*!% yeah!

As a Banshee main, she is a squish bunny but she is vital for endurance past level 1k+

[JackHargreav]

1 hour ago, Midas said:

As a Banshee main, she is a squish bunny but she is vital for endurance past level 1k+

I'd like to get there but I think for now I will just try to complete bounties without dying. 😅