Conclave 2.0 :)

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

Honestly I agree with conclave rewards not being compatible with the new item! 

But if they are gonna do this conclave needs some TLC. Let’s list some proposed changes other then “delete the game mode” 

here are some of my ideas! 

Mainly limiting movement by putting rolls and bullet jumps on a 4-6 second cooldown. Allowing you to shoot your targets and less roll spam/ parkour spam and actual PvP! 

Secondly adding a new gamemode to PvP like a tug of war type game mode or “lunario” sequence game mode a ball or item spawns in the middle of the map. Then two opposing teams would have to get to the end of each map to score! 

Grant 5 energy per kill to allow sort of a reward for being the kill mongering monster you are!

 

frame and wep balance! (It’s a lot of frames and a lot of weps to use so uhhhhhh idk how to exactly work this)

what are you guys ideas?

[Walkampf]

Technically we are already far past Conclave2.0.

It's obvious that DEs customers are not interested in PvP. And DE has realised this, since there are only 2 people left working on PvP as a passion project and since the new universal medallions were also initially viable for Conclave standing, it's all the more clear, that DE wants to distance themself from Conclave even further. 

And the few players, who are still interested, basically all suggest the same, slowing the gameplay down through different means. This however, goes directly against the core-gameplay of Warframe.

 

I'l just tell you the same that I'm telling everybody who bring up conclave nowadays, if you are looking for PvP, you are playing the wrong game.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

5 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Technically we are already far past Conclave2.0.

It's obvious that DEs customers are not interested in PvP. And DE has realised this, since there are only 2 people left working on PvP as a passion project and since the new universal medallions were also initially viable for Conclave standing, it's all the more clear, that DE wants to distance themself from Conclave even further. 

And the few players, who are still interested, basically all suggest the same, slowing the gameplay down through different means. This however, goes directly against the core-gameplay of Warframe.

 

I'l just tell you the same that I'm telling everybody who bring up conclave nowadays, if you are looking for PvP, you are playing the wrong game.

I don’t think anyone plays warframe JUST for PvP brother we’re all aware of this. But having the gamemode still in the game and putting these rewards behind them means that it’s something to do. It’s an extra slice of content and if properly balanced I think would work a lot better. 

 

As far as slowing down the gameplay yes. This isn’t pve it’s a completely different spectrum and needs to be balanced to fight the player not the A1 slowing down or restricting movement is fair for everyone. Considering that it’s only in one optional gamemode. The idea of fixing this gamemode and making it playable shouldn’t be a negatively received idea as well. What’s wrong with more things to do in warframe if it’s done well

[Walkampf]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

It’s an extra slice of content and if properly balanced I think would work a lot better. 

The statement is true, however, you are underestimating the amount of work by which it can be achieved and you are overestimating the return, which it will bring DE.

They invested heavily in Conclave and they fell flat on their noses.

They invested heavily in Lunaro and they fell flat on their noses.

They invested heavily in a seperate PvP game and fell flat on their noses.

DEs core-audience is simply not interested in PvP.

Especially their investment in the Amazing Eternals is still being felt by DE as well as the players. The investment into this game caused the start of the content drought the DE is still trying to catch up to today.

For DE to try to invest into anything PvP before Warframes current content drought has been solved whould be nothing less than suicidal.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

The statement is true, however, you are underestimating the amount of work by which it can be achieved and you are overestimating the return, which it will bring DE.

They invested heavily in Conclave and they fell flat on their noses.

They invested heavily in Lunaro and they fell flat on their noses.

They invested heavily in a seperate PvP game and fell flat on their noses.

DEs core-audience is simply not interested in PvP.

Especially their investment in the Amazing Eternals is still being felt by DE as well as the players. The investment into this game caused the start of the content drought the DE is still trying to catch up to today.

For DE to try to invest into anything PvP before Warframes current content drought has been solved whould be nothing less than suicidal.

I’m not saying meh fix it now DE! But I’m totally for them revisiting it. And yes I agree they fell flat on these game modes because PvP isn’t the core audience for warframe. Yer looking at how PvP is structured it’s structured the Exact same as PvE down to movement options and all. You can’t make PvE work for PvP unless the game was built with PvP in mind from the start. Something DE didn’t plan on adding. But they can go back and fix  

[Kontrollo]

24 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

... It's obvious that DEs customers are not interested in PvP. And DE has realised this, since there are only 2 people left working on PvP as a passion project and since the new universal medallions were also initially viable for Conclave standing, it's all the more clear, that DE wants to distance themself from Conclave even further. ...

No one is working on Conclave right now, or if they do, then not on something that has made it into the game yet. That's pretty obvious from the patch notes and the lack of any mention of Conclave.

Things they could do:

• Finally do a balance pass again to address some of the more annoying/unbalanced things
• Reenable Opticor Variant or bring back one of the other Variant event modes from 2016/2017. Everyone is on equal grounds in those.

7 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

The statement is true, however, you are underestimating the amount of work by which it can be achieved and you are overestimating the return, which it will bring DE. ...

These would not take a lot of time, I can assure you. It's about things that are or were already in the game + some stat tweaks.

[Walkampf]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Kontrollo:

These would not take a lot of time, I can assure you. It's about things that are or were already in the game + some stat tweaks.

You can assure me? Please tell me, how so?

Are you an employee of DE? I'm really curious in which way you have first hand experience of the inner workings of videogame development. Whould you mind sharing some of your previous jobs in the gaming industry? That whould indeed assure me.

Until then, I'm forced to think that you are assuming and to assume means making an (a$$) out of yo(u) and (me).

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Walkampf said:

You can assure me? Please tell me, how so?

Are you an employee of DE? I'm really curious in which way you have first hand experience of the inner workings of videogame development. Whould you mind sharing some of your previous jobs in the gaming industry? That whould indeed assure me.

Until then, I'm forced to think that you are assuming and to assume means making an (a$$) out of yo(u) and (me).

I don't need to have been working in the gaming industry to make a broad assessment on how much time it takes to reenable something that was already in the game, or make some tweaks to stats. I do have experience in software development, though.

I also know how the weapon stats are saved behind the scenes. It's not some kind of black magic to infer that adjusting a multiplier on some weapon's stats doesn't take a lot of time.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You can assure me? Please tell me, how so?

Are you an employee of DE? I'm really curious in which way you have first hand experience of the inner workings of videogame development. Whould you mind sharing some of your previous jobs in the gaming industry? That whould indeed assure me.

Until then, I'm forced to think that you are assuming and to assume means making an (a$$) out of yo(u) and (me).

In all actuality he’s not completely wrong. Working with code and development generally speaking the tweaks shouldn’t take longer then a week or two with minimum amount of resources being changed if I’m not mistaken wf is ran though unreal engine and as far as code is I can say it’s pretty simple to go back and make smaller tweaks and changes to the game thanks to how awesome the engine is. I’ve done a lot of passion projects and recently in February I got burnt out of game design so I do know a bit of what I’m talking about. Simply changing stats and fixing a few variables heck even adding some lines for unique code to put rolls on a cooldown would take zero effort they already have a code for cooldown within ESO they could take it and modify that for PvP. Modifying numbers to fit and change in existing game modes to fit in concolave wouldn’t take that long bro. Now tell me. If I go into absolute detail of how this crap works will you just dismiss me or will you actually say woah they might have a point 

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Kontrollo:

I don't need to have been working in the gaming industry to make a broad assessment on how much time it takes to reenable something that was already in the game, or make some tweaks to stats. I do have experience in software development, though.

General software development and videogame balancing are two completly different jobs.

Anybody, even somebody with no computer knowledge, can change some numbers in a random way, but it's an enterily different beast doing so while predicting how these changes whould effect the game.

So, yes, I agree, that technically changing some numbers doesn't take time, but that's completly besides the point.

And that's the point were somebody who's experience is hardly more than copy&pasting scripts from internet forums completly fails to realise how an actual company and job-specialisation within works.

So, to sum up the issue, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

7 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

General software development and videogame balancing are two completly different jobs.

Anybody, even somebody with no computer knowledge, can change some numbers in a random way, but it's an enterily different beast doing so while predicting how these changes whould effect the game.

So, yes, I agree, that technically changing some numbers doesn't take time, but that's completly besides the point.

And that's the point were somebody who's experience is hardly more than copy&pasting scripts from internet forums completly fails to realise how an actual company and job-specialisation within works.

So, to sum up the issue, you have no idea what you are talking about.

That’s very rude

[Kontrollo]

21 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

General software development and videogame balancing are two completly different jobs.

Anybody, even somebody with no computer knowledge, can change some numbers in a random way, but it's an enterily different beast doing so while predicting how these changes whould effect the game.

So, yes, I agree, that technically changing some numbers doesn't take time, but that's completly besides the point. ...

Ah, so you mean I don't even have to be a software developer to tweak a multiplier in the game files?

You know, they could simply half that multiplier on the more annoying weapons and the mode would already be better for it. No assessment necessary if they want to do it quickly.

There's even a flag:

AvailableOnPvp=1

which they could set to 0 to remove an unbalanced weapon/Warframe without balancing anything at all.

 

21 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

 ... And that's the point were somebody who's experience is hardly more than copy&pasting scripts from internet forums completly fails to realise how an actual company and job-specialisation within works. ...

If you're implying I don't know anything about software development, then that's just slander.

 

Now that I've talked a bit about things are, I'd love to hear from you how you arrived at these:

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

... there are only 2 people left working on PvP as a passion project ...

58 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

... you are underestimating the amount of work by which it can be achieved ... They invested heavily in Conclave ... invested heavily in Lunaro ...

Edited September 6, 2019 by Kontrollo
cleaned up the quotes

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 minutes ago, Kontrollo said:

Ah, so you mean I don't even have to be a software developer to tweak a multiplier in the game files?

You know, they could simply half that multiplier on the more annoying weapons and the mode would already be better for it. No assessment necessary if they want to do it quickly.

There's even a flag:

AvailableOnPvp=1

which they could set to 0 to remove an unbalanced weapon/Warframe without balancing anything at all.

 

If you're implying I don't know anything about software development, then that's just slander.

 

Now that I've talked a bit about things are, I'd love to hear from you how you arrived at these:

Its not as simple as halting the damage however with that. 

and setting that flag for all the weapons on wf to true or false is very tedious. There’s a lot easier workarounds to the methods you suggested actually but I’d have to see their code for the game I always wanted to pick at this games code 

[Walkampf]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

That’s very rude

But it's true, none the less. You have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even understand that. I have no idea what your experience is, but I fully understand that your experience is not what is needed to achieve the task at hand.

 

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Kontrollo:

Ah, so you mean I don't even have to be a software developer to tweak a multiplier in the game files?

Not ONLY are developer, but more than one person. I'm saying that you are oversimplifing things.

 

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Kontrollo:

If you're implying I don't know anything about software development, then that's just slander.

The same goes for you:

You have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even understand that. I have no idea what your experience is, but I fully understand that your experience is not what is needed to achieve the task at hand.

 

You both fail to understand the whole process of videogame development and only focus on the technical part.

And especially in balancing, this is the smallest part of the chain of tasks which is needed balance a videogame.

[Drachnyn]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Kontrollo:

Now that I've talked a bit about things are, I'd love to hear from you how you arrived at these:

In one of shy's art streams Rebecca mentioned that there are 2 people dedicated to conclave and that it's their passion project.

[sleepychewbacca]

8 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

In one of shy's art streams Rebecca mentioned that there are 2 people dedicated to conclave and that it's their passion project.

And like Zephyr's deluxe skin, we all know how that is fated to end up haha. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

7 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

But it's true, none the less. You have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even understand that. I have no idea what your experience is, but I fully understand that your experience is not what is needed to achieve the task at hand.

 

Not ONLY are developer, but more than one person. I'm saying that you are oversimplifing things.

 

The same goes for you:

You have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even understand that. I have no idea what your experience is, but I fully understand that your experience is not what is needed to achieve the task at hand.

 

You both fail to understand the whole process of videogame development and only focus on the technical part.

And especially in balancing, this is the smallest part of the chain of tasks which is needed balance a videogame.

Woah I’m not here for the insults brother. If you’re not here to be productive or civil I have no need to converse with you. The point being I’m well aware of balancing and taken that into consideration with my changes and offered suggestions based on such. And I’m aware of the process start to finish development is heck. Reasons why I’m not doing it right now. 

The issue is a technical issue as well being that it comes down to the games code scripts and more, so yes I’m treating it as such.

you don’t know my experiences yes. But I’m sure that I could offer some lines of code and or possible changes if I can see the codes scripting etc for PvP. Give me about 3-4 months and with the code I can probably offer a few optimal changes. (Yes I’m that confident thanks to experience and training in the field) 

also current conclave is far from balanced something you’re neglecting to see in or suggestions 

[Kontrollo]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Its not as simple as halting the damage however with that. 

and setting that flag for all the weapons on wf to true or false is very tedious. There’s a lot easier workarounds to the methods you suggested actually but I’d have to see their code for the game I always wanted to pick at this games code

• Hitscan weapons in PvP have the same stats as in PvE with an additional multiplier. If they just half that multiplier on outlier weapons, then it's obviously going to be better.
• How is setting a flag very tedious compared to literally anything else they develop in this game? 🤔
  I'm not even saying they should do that on all the weapons. Just on unbalanced ones, if they don't want to tweak stats to bring them into a good spot.

There are so many weapons already in the game, we have tons of options, and it'd be simple to remove/nerf a few to bring the mode into an overall better shape.

 

2 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

In one of shy's art streams Rebecca mentioned that there are 2 people dedicated to conclave and that it's their passion project.

And how old is that stream? Why was the last officially mentioned Conclave weapon balance change (= patch notes) over a year ago? Search for Zylok in 2018.

In between then and now, a few new things made it in, some of them questionable (i.e. probably just enabled by accident, copying a multiplier from a base weapon, etc.), plus a bug fix here and there. And in March there were finally some more changes (unlisted, too), that improved a bit on things that had been requested for a long time. One of these changes was the removal of Zaws -- a good thing, mind you.

Does that sound like two people working on it?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, Kontrollo said:

• Hitscan weapons in PvP have the same stats as in PvE with an additional multiplier. If they just half that multiplier on outlier weapons, then it's obviously going to be better.
• How is setting a flag very tedious compared to literally anything else they develop in this game? 🤔
  I'm not even saying they should do that on all the weapons. Just on unbalanced ones, if they don't want to tweak stats to bring them into a good spot.

There are so many weapons already in the game, we have tons of options, and it'd be simple to remove/nerf a few to bring the mode into an overall better shape.

 

And how old is that stream? Why was the last officially mentioned Conclave weapon balance change (= patch notes) over a year ago? Search for Zylok in 2018.

In between then and now, a few new things made it in, some of them questionable (i.e. probably just enabled by accident, copying a multiplier from a base weapon, etc.), plus a bug fix here and there. And in March there were finally some more changes (unlisted, too), that improved a bit on things that had been requested for a long time. One of these changes was the removal of Zaws -- a good thing, mind you.

Does that sound like two people working on it?

Because if I’m not mistaken not adding it to every weapon can possibly break the code in which what weaps are and aren’t allowed. Warframe is constantly adding weapons as well. They’d have to go back and do this for every weapon to catch up to where they are at now

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Because if I’m not mistaken not adding it to every weapon can possibly break the code in which what weaps are and aren’t allowed. Warframe is constantly adding weapons as well. They’d have to go back and do this for every weapon to catch up to where they are at now

Also may I note damage really isn’t an issue in conclave it’s the core of the game mode

[Kontrollo]

22 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

The same goes for you:

You have no idea what you are talking about and you don't even understand that. I have no idea what your experience is, but I fully understand that your experience is not what is needed to achieve the task at hand.

 

You both fail to understand the whole process of videogame development and only focus on the technical part.

And especially in balancing, this is the smallest part of the chain of tasks which is needed balance a videogame.

That's just handwaving. I know how the stats look in the game files.

But enlighten me, how is adjusting a multiplier or setting a flag somehow out of my competence? Even a high-schooler could do that. How do you figure that could take a lot of dev time?

 

Now I'm really curious to hear some more from your side. As requested, please elaborate on these:

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

... there are only 2 people left working on PvP as a passion project ...

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

... you are underestimating the amount of work by which it can be achieved ... They invested heavily in Conclave ... invested heavily in Lunaro ...

Edited September 6, 2019 by Kontrollo
typo

[Kontrollo]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Because if I’m not mistaken not adding it to every weapon can possibly break the code in which what weaps are and aren’t allowed. Warframe is constantly adding weapons as well. They’d have to go back and do this for every weapon to catch up to where they are at now

3 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Also may I note damage really isn’t an issue in conclave it’s the core of the game mode

No. That flag is on very weapon, nothing is breaking. Of course damage is an issue. Over time, I've seen a lot of people saying that it's unbalanced. Addressing some outliers or reenabling a mode where everyone is on equal grounds (Opticor Variant, other Variant modes) would immediately address those without much effort. So that was my suggestion.

[S.Dust]

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

The statement is true, however, you are underestimating the amount of work by which it can be achieved and you are overestimating the return, which it will bring DE.

They invested heavily in Conclave and they fell flat on their noses.

They invested heavily in Lunaro and they fell flat on their noses.

They invested heavily in a seperate PvP game and fell flat on their noses.

DEs core-audience is simply not interested in PvP.

Especially their investment in the Amazing Eternals is still being felt by DE as well as the players. The investment into this game caused the start of the content drought the DE is still trying to catch up to today.

For DE to try to invest into anything PvP before Warframes current content drought has been solved whould be nothing less than suicidal.

They invest in everything and fall flat. They really only have so much to lose anyways since the community is already ok with waiting a year for content.

[S.Dust]

Just realized I made a mistake my first post on here should have said the community is already too toxic and brainwashed to hate conclave so don't expect support for conclave improvements.

[Sajochi]

5 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

They invest in everything and fall flat. They really only have so much to lose anyways since the community is already ok with waiting a year for content.

Hasn't this been explained to you already multiple times? Why do you not listen?

3 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

Just realized I made a mistake my first post on here should have said the community is already too toxic and brainwashed to hate conclave so don't expect support for conclave improvements.

Oh, I see. "Community is toxic and my ideas are perfect." Because a few people disagreeing with you in the forums = a toxic community. High horse much?