Gauss is a design trainwreck - absolute intrakit dependency, ridiculously arbitrary limitations, not a shred of team utility of any kind

[Sace]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Benour:

Strange i have no issues with Marching around and keeping my battery over 100% and charging my Redline. I must the progamer my grandmom was telling me stories about when i was young tenno... 

Only issue i have with charging battery is when i get hit alot.

I have 0 issues to run and gun while marching around. Also you are not supposted to sit at maxed Redline 24/7 its just cherry on the cake. In distruption/interception i constantly move/charge my battery anyway, its literally passive bonus when i reach maxed Redline.

If you can keep your battery over 100%, you are actually a hacker or exploiter, not a progamer 🤣

On a more serious note: If marching around means constantly using Mach Rush, even when not needed and/or counter-productive, then sure. It is easy. You still perform subpar to other frames who get more done, are faster doing it and require less effort, BUT at least the battery is above 80%

 

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Loza03:

Because losing charge means losing your safety net in kinetic plating, and a longer charge up next time you need to pop the power.

See, what sounds like the problem is you seem to be wanting to enter the fight with redline already up at full power. That's not the point - that's improperly managing it. You're supposed to be entering the battle with full battery and redline off, and then turning it on because you feel like you need it because there's lots of enemies around. Certainly, that's how I use it, and it works just fine and very efficiently. 

There's a reason one of its synergies is making Mach Rush cheaper. Mach Rush is your approach tool. If you're in a situation where you're unlikely to be approaching very often, then you won't be using it as much. Redline is designed so that you use it when you would be using Mach Rush and Thermal Sunder a lot anyway. If you pop it when you aren't doing this - when you don't need to actually take your combat to the limit (to the 'redline' if you will), then you're doing it wrong.

 

If I had to make one change to redline, it would be letting you continue to attack as normal whilst activating it (only playing the animation if you aren't using your upper body, much like how lower body animations work), and during that period of 'charging up', dealing damage will give you an initial %age boost - up to about 25% free percent.

Of course I want to enter the fight with redline at full power. This game is too fast paced to use redline in the middle of clearing groups of enemies. They are dead before you finished casting redline which invalidates the ability even more. If you are using it while already engaging enemies, you actually waste all of Gauss already low potential. I gotta admit that redline is nice as a minibuff while completely disregarding battery charge.

This is how I play him:

<mission>

• Activate Redline
• Mach Rush to objective
• Kill Enemies, no matter the battery charge
• Do some Thermal Sunders for the lulz
• Activate Redline when expired
• Mach Rush to Extraction

</mission>

If you care about battery, you actually waste time and nerves. Keeping it charged is tedious, hinders you in doing what you should be doing and unless you plan on hitting 100% for the last 30 seconds of Redline (254% Duration), it doesn't really benefit you either. I can't rely on Kinetic Plating because for some reason not all damage types are shielded and the battery drain is hilarious. (QT disregarded). Thermal Sunder is a joke even with my modded 170% range. Never use it because everything else is more efficient.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Sace

[Zharun]

This thread is a near complete waste of time. Maybe OP had a bad day or something and he takes it out on the new frame.

Complaining about mach rush not being omnidirectional? Just turn your mouse 180 degrees and press 1. It is not hard. Also sure you can not move up or down. That is what Zephyr is for. Different frames have different skills otherwise we might as well have 1 superframe that does everything. Changing directions is fine too while rushing aim to your desired destination and reengage Mach Rush instead of whining on the Internet. Only thing I can agree with on mach rush is the sometimes annoying deadzone after continuously using it. But even then it is pretty short.

Punished for Duration? What? There is no need to reach 100% on redline all the time. Your buffs are at 100% strength when the Gauge is visually filled. The 100% is just a bonus after about 3/4 of its duration of staying above the redline to reach godmode against most damage and some minor battery management buffs. And the cast time ... really? You have full range of movement and can mach rush while casting it. It is a nonissue.

Kinetic plating sits at 84% outside and 100% with full redline and I have no idea why you would not be in redline 100% of the time while playing him anyways.

Not every frame has to have team support. That is just boring and samey. Warframe is so easy that most of the time it is completely unnecessary. Sadly often enough your teammates are more of a burden than help anyways. At least in public groups.

 

And yes, self damage is a tired horse beaten to death a 1000 times by the community but apparently someone at DE thinks its fun to one-shot yourself.

[Doraz_]

i'm enjoying him but can't understand why slash procs bypass damage reduction 😕

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Sace said:

Of course I want to enter the fight with redline at full power. This game is too fast paced to use redline in the middle of clearing groups of enemies. They are dead before you finished casting redline which invalidates the ability even more. If you are using it while already engaging enemies, you actually waste all of Gauss already low potential. I gotta admit that redline is nice as a minibuff while completely disregarding battery charge.

Survival? Disruption? Open world? Defense?

There's plenty of missions where you're rushed by a large number of enemies which are constantly refreshing themselves and subsequently always have another group to run to. If there's only one or two groups that aren't refreshing then yes, Redlining is a waste. Just like how a Nitro Boost in a race when you're at the head of the pack is a waste.

1 hour ago, Sace said:

This is how I play him:

<mission>

• Activate Redline
• Mach Rush to objective
• Kill Enemies, no matter the battery charge
• Do some Thermal Sunders for the lulz
• Activate Redline when expired
• Mach Rush to Extraction

</mission>

Not every mission is structured like this though. What about those missions?

 

1 hour ago, Sace said:

If you care about battery, you actually waste time and nerves. Keeping it charged is tedious, hinders you in doing what you should be doing and unless you plan on hitting 100% for the last 30 seconds of Redline (254% Duration), it doesn't really benefit you either. I can't rely on Kinetic Plating because for some reason not all damage types are shielded and the battery drain is hilarious. (QT disregarded). Thermal Sunder is a joke even with my modded 170% range. Never use it because everything else is more efficient.

The buffs aren't based on your %, they're based on your current battery amount. So you reach max buffs very quickly if you start from a full battery, and thus get the benefit straight away. 100% just means you end on a full battery and are locked at max battery level. You don't need to rely on Kinetic Plating because you have the ability to dodge and CC with your 1.

 

Gauss isn't a perfectly designed frame, but a trainwreck, awful, objectively bad? No. You just don't enjoy playing him, since his battery management through speed and ability use is playing him. Subjectivity vs objectivity. And that's fine - I have no issues with somebody just not enjoying a playstyle. But trying to pass not enjoying it as objectively bad?

The only reason Gauss could be considered objectively worse than other frames is because a lot of Warframes have abilities that are improperly balanced, either due to power creep or due to being designed before the current energy meta, or some combination of the above. Abilities which have not inherent limiters built in, and instead just allow for instant and/or low-engagement access to extremely powerful, wide ranging effects such as room-wide CC. This enables these frames to do what Gauss does without engaging with the game, which is objectively 'better' in the sense that they are more powerful - although they cause a variety of other problems.. Gauss isn't the poorly designed frame for having limits imposed on him - he's a well designed frame struggling against frames that don't have this kind of good design which makes them much more powerful.

[Sace]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Loza03:

Survival? Disruption? Open world? Defense?

There's plenty of missions where you're rushed by a large number of enemies which are constantly refreshing themselves and subsequently always have another group to run to. If there's only one or two groups that aren't refreshing then yes, Redlining is a waste. Just like how a Nitro Boost in a race when you're at the head of the pack is a waste.

What about those? It is never advisable to use a long cast ability that needs to be built up after cast in the middle of a battle. With a 70s ability I might as well cast it off cooldown and be done with it.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

Not every mission is structured like this though. What about those missions?

You mean like defense or mobile defense? Where you are supposed to protect the (sometimes moving) objective by standing near it fending off attackers from all sides? Well, I suppose Gauss is the least viable pick for this mission. Or do you mean Hijack missions? Well, Gauss might not be the best pick either. Or do you mean plain/vallis? Just hop into Itzal, you are faster anyways. Disruption is nice as Gauss, his Mach Rush can get you to places. The rest of his kit is mediocre at best.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

The buffs aren't based on your %, they're based on your current battery amount. So you reach max buffs very quickly if you start from a full battery, and thus get the benefit straight away. 100% just means you end on a full battery and are locked at max battery level. You don't need to rely on Kinetic Plating because you have the ability to dodge and CC with your 1.

I know this. It does not contradict or refute my statements in any way.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

Gauss isn't a perfectly designed frame, but a trainwreck, awful, objectively bad? No. You just don't enjoy playing him, since his battery management through speed and ability use is playing him. Subjectivity vs objectivity. And that's fine - I have no issues with somebody just not enjoying a playstyle. But trying to pass not enjoying it as objectively bad?

Objectively bad might not be worded correctly. He is objectively worse than many other Warframes. No matter how efficient he is played, other Frames reach greater potential in shorter time with less effort. The niche that he wants to fill is already comfortably filled by other frames or mechanics. Want to parkour faster than Gauss? Go Wukong/Volt. Want to tank? Go Chroma/Inaros. Want to wreck enemies fast? Go Chroma or Saryn or Volt or whatever. Open World? Itzal + any Frame is faster than the supposedly fastest Frame. If you want a weak combo with lots of effort involved OR love the art style and sounds of Gauss, go with him.

I can get everything done with him, I just know that there are wayyyyyyyyyy stronger and for some parts even faster Frames already there.

If I didn't fell in love with his style, I would have gone back to stronger Frames already.

[Loza03]

 

1 hour ago, Sace said:

What about those? It is never advisable to use a long cast ability that needs to be built up after cast in the middle of a battle. With a 70s ability I might as well cast it off cooldown and be done with it.

You mean like defense or mobile defense? Where you are supposed to protect the (sometimes moving) objective by standing near it fending off attackers from all sides? Well, I suppose Gauss is the least viable pick for this mission. Or do you mean Hijack missions? Well, Gauss might not be the best pick either. Or do you mean plain/vallis? Just hop into Itzal, you are faster anyways. Disruption is nice as Gauss, his Mach Rush can get you to places. The rest of his kit is mediocre at best.

It is advisable when you can continue to move and CC enemies unimpeded and when having repeat. His Mach Rush, again, is another CC, that is quick and effective.

Any mission with a constant influx of enemies is a good place for redline. Otherwise, it is extraneous.

1 hour ago, Sace said:

I know this. It does not contradict or refute my statements in any way.

Actually, it does. In particular, this point:

6 hours ago, Sace said:

it doesn't really benefit you either.

Since Redline doesn't need to be at 100% to receive the buffs, it can begin to benefit you pretty much immediately. You say you typically hover around 48% Reload speed buff - a good Gauss build can get 138% - that's a benefit.

1 hour ago, Sace said:

Objectively bad might not be worded correctly. He is objectively worse than many other Warframes. No matter how efficient he is played, other Frames reach greater potential in shorter time with less effort. The niche that he wants to fill is already comfortably filled by other frames or mechanics. Want to parkour faster than Gauss? Go Wukong/Volt. Want to tank? Go Chroma/Inaros. Want to wreck enemies fast? Go Chroma or Saryn or Volt or whatever. Open World? Itzal + any Frame is faster than the supposedly fastest Frame. If you want a weak combo with lots of effort involved OR love the art style and sounds of Gauss, go with him.

Yeah, because like I said, Warframe has a balance problem, and has a bunch of frames (including my favourite frame, who I've been meaning to try think of a rework suggestion for) with BS powers that let them be ludicrously effective with almost no effort. That is poor design. Gauss is not. Admittedly, with the exception of raw speed - but Gauss is meant to be fast to play. For example - his 4 smoothing out reloads and increasing fire rate, his 2 preventing staggers and knockdowns, his 1 being able to animation cancel most things enabling much faster reaction times and all his powers allowing full movement whilst active.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, Sace said:

The niche that he wants to fill is already comfortably filled by other frames or mechanics. Want to parkour faster than Gauss? Go Wukong/Volt. Want to tank? Go Chroma/Inaros. Want to wreck enemies fast? Go Chroma or Saryn or Volt or whatever. Open World? Itzal + any Frame is faster than the supposedly fastest Frame.

Devil's Advocate time. 

This one statement is overlooking one IMPORTANT point.  None of the frames you mentioned can do all of that in one single package/frame except for the one you are trying to say those frames are better than, Gauss.  I only mention this because there are more people that prefer not to constantly switch frames or don't like playing any of the frames you mentioned.  

Just putting that out there.  😄  

[Sace]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Loza03:

It is advisable when you can continue to move and CC enemies unimpeded and when having repeat. His Mach Rush, again, is another CC, that is quick and effective.

Any mission with a constant influx of enemies is a good place for redline. Otherwise, it is extraneous.

No, it is always better to just kill everything than using a no-damage cc while waiting for some random ability to finish casting. Killing is faster as well.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Loza03:

Since Redline doesn't need to be at 100% to receive the buffs, it can begin to benefit you pretty much immediately. You say you typically hover around 48% Reload speed buff - a good Gauss build can get 138% - that's a benefit

Yeah, as long as you don't have to focus on charging the battery. Which is sadly the case if you want to get constant 100% battery charge or even just >80%. As soon as you stop killing stuff to use subpar cc or Mach Rush needlessly, you don't benefit from your nice reload speed because you killed fewer enemies than without this distraction. Your nice reload speed is literally counterproductive then.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb Loza03:

Yeah, because like I said, Warframe has a balance problem, and has a bunch of frames (including my favourite frame, who I've been meaning to try think of a rework suggestion for) with BS powers that let them be ludicrously effective with almost no effort. That is poor design. Gauss is not. Admittedly, with the exception of raw speed - but Gauss is meant to be fast to play. For example - his 4 smoothing out reloads and increasing fire rate, his 2 preventing staggers and knockdowns, his 1 being able to animation cancel most things enabling much faster reaction times and all his powers allowing full movement whilst active

All of this won't help Gauss though. There are better Frames for most cases. Depending on the environment, he is slower than some Frames. He is universally weaker than some Frames. He has no shred of team synergy or group buffs to make up for it like many other Frames. Sure, DE could nerf every other Frame better than Gauss, this would be a complete Warframe overhaul. Not sure if that is easier than just boosting or altering some mechanics for his kit. 

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb DatDarkOne:

This one statement is overlooking one IMPORTANT point.  None of the frames you mentioned can do all of that in one single package/frame except for the one you are trying to say those frames are better than, Gauss.  I only mention this because there are more people that prefer not to constantly switch frames or don't like playing any of the frames you mentioned.  

Yeah, those can give Gauss a try. It only means that they will perform subpar in every mission but it will usually be enough to clear 99,99% of everything. I only got my hopes up that he will traverse open world/missions superfast or kill stuff fast. Unfortunately there are already better Frames/Archwings for everything and even though he is weak, he is a major hassle to play even semi-efficiently. 

[Loza03]

46 minutes ago, Sace said:

No, it is always better to just kill everything than using a no-damage cc while waiting for some random ability to finish casting. Killing is faster as well.

Isn't this a bit of a close-minded viewpoint?

It is better to not kill for, like, three seconds and then be significantly better at killing things for the next 80, then be able to kill for those three seconds and not be better at killing. 77 seconds of being better at killing outweigh 3 seconds of not killing. The only reason it might be a problem is vulnerability, and you still have all your defensive options.

52 minutes ago, Sace said:

Yeah, as long as you don't have to focus on charging the battery. Which is sadly the case if you want to get constant 100% battery charge or even just >80%. As soon as you stop killing stuff to use subpar cc or Mach Rush needlessly, you don't benefit from your nice reload speed because you killed fewer enemies than without this distraction. Your nice reload speed is literally counterproductive then.

It's not just a reload buff though? It's also a DPS buff through fire rate/attack speed. And, frankly, unless you're standing stock still you have a pretty reasonable window after a single tap of Mach Rush or Thermal Sunder where you're above the redline, at which point you are probably going to kill everything in the direction you want, and then need to reposition or CC some enemies during that window. It's several seconds after all, if you have good duration.

58 minutes ago, Sace said:

All of this won't help Gauss though. There are better Frames for most cases. Depending on the environment, he is slower than some Frames. He is universally weaker than some Frames. He has no shred of team synergy or group buffs to make up for it like many other Frames. Sure, DE could nerf every other Frame better than Gauss, this would be a complete Warframe overhaul. Not sure if that is easier than just boosting or altering some mechanics for his kit. 

Being 'better than' Gauss is one thing. I don't particularly care about that. I do care about the poor design of many of those frames which causes them to outperform Gauss as one of the 'symptoms', but frankly that's another kettle of fish entirely.

Like I said, I wouldn't mind some alterations, but a complete trainwreck, like this thread posits? No, not really. His kit fits together nicely, and gives a nice reward that's not so overwhelming that the game completely rolls over. You do actually have to try to play him. Not particularly hard, but that's the kind of design that works for Warframe IMO. 

[AKTKWNG]

On 2019-09-06 at 11:03 PM, Autongnosis said:

Unless you are in redline mode, the rest of his kit other than mach rush for meme run builds barely does anything.

I have to disagree with this statement. I have experimented with bringing Gauss into higher-level content and found that he still fares pretty well with low battery. If you're building high duration, redline still provides sizable buffs at 60-70% battery. I found that even with my battery being drained, I can just tap 1 and 3 for an instant 20% battery and maintain my fire rate.

Also, and this surprised myself as well, kinetic plating can still help you tank pretty well at low battery. The key is that the energy gain portion of the ability doesn't require actual health damage to work, and it isn't reduced by any other damage reduction that you're stacking, which are two very important distinctions compared to hunter adrenaline. With the default 100% power strength, quick thinking, R3 arcane guardian and stacked adaptation, you will mathematically always gain more energy than you lose from the relevant damage types even at 0% battery, meaning that you virtually can't die to those damage types until they one-shot you through your entire energy meter. If you're being mobbed by enemies, the energy you gain from the IPS etc. damage helps you tank the occasional heavy hit from one of the other damage types. Against my better judgement, I brought Gauss into a solo arbitration disruption and was pleasantly surprised by how well he fared. When I eventually did die, it wasn't because I was overwhelmed by damage, it was because there was an energy leech eximus that I couldn't find and kill in time, which is a problem with QT and not necessarily Gauss' kit.

I do agree that Gauss' battery management could use tweaking, but to say that he lives or dies by 100% redline guage is a gross oversimplification.

[Sace]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

Isn't this a bit of a close-minded viewpoint?

It is better to not kill for, like, three seconds and then be significantly better at killing things for the next 80, then be able to kill for those three seconds and not be better at killing. 77 seconds of being better at killing outweigh 3 seconds of not killing. The only reason it might be a problem is vulnerability, and you still have all your defensive options.

This is where our viewpoints diverge. I'd rather enter battle with a semi-charged 77s ability that is simply recast everytime it runs out than fire off same long cast ability in the middle of the battle only to spam Mach Rush or Thermal Sunder to get it to over 80% for the sake of it. By the time you did all this, I have already cleared the room and moved on, even with Gauss.

 

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Loza03:

It's not just a reload buff though? It's also a DPS buff through fire rate/attack speed. And, frankly, unless you're standing stock still you have a pretty reasonable window after a single tap of Mach Rush or Thermal Sunder where you're above the redline, at which point you are probably going to kill everything in the direction you want, and then need to reposition or CC some enemies during that window. It's several seconds after all, if you have good duration.

You only brought reload speed into play, I only replied using reload speed. I know what Redline does. I also use Mach Rush to reposition in between battle and to get to more enemies. Even with Kinetic Plating not active, this is not enough to keep the battery above 80% at all times. If the battery is not at 100%, the %-counter won't go up fast enough either, which should be your ultimate goal, though. Because endless battery means full efficiency without spamming unneeded abilities and the close window of around 30s where you don't have to pamper the battery to get the most out of Redline is where Gauss actually plays pretty okay. Even Thermal Sunder fills a role because one cast is enough to get decent cc.

There have been some great suggestions already and it would be awesome if DE listens:

- Mach Rush too slow and costly

• Should be stacking over prolonged usage
• Not energy per distance traveled but per second

- Kinetic Plating too costly for battery

• Reduce or remove battery drain over time OR battery drain per hit
• Nerf 100% DR when buffing Redline %

- Thermal Sunder pretty low range, too situational and costly Fire proc, only initial cast does Freeze CC

• Buff anything of the above, preferably the CC

- Redline too costly for battery, slow % gain when high duration

• Reduce or remove battery drain over time

OR

• Make it recastable like Vex Armor, maybe with raised energy cost and retained % Charge, maybe add fire self-damage
• Remove 100% DR from Kinetic Plating, make it 80%~ max

 

Last but not least: Fix QT and Kinetic Plating combo making him essentially invincible for the most part.

[ShortCat]

15 hours ago, Sace said:

With a 70s ability I might as well cast it off cooldown and be done with it.

This is actually what you should do with Redline - recast it as soon as it ends.
I also see you are adamant to reach those 100%, which is even not necessary to gain benefits. Yes, 100% is undoubtfully nice, but already the smalles buff values are noticable. People also seem to forgett Redline affects all other abilities.

2 hours ago, Sace said:

- Mach Rush too slow and costly

Slow is defenitely an objective standpoint. Costly? you get a 50% energy discount while in Redline.

2 hours ago, Sace said:

- Kinetic Plating too costly for battery

• Reduce or remove battery drain over time OR battery drain per hit
• Nerf 100% DR when buffing Redline %

The drain is there to incentivise player movement. People complain Gauss cannot stand in the open and tank incomming damage (while he actually can do it, but I assume this is an oversight and will be fixed). This is not the philosophy behind Gauss' design. You should be on the move! If your playstyle involves a lot of standing or camping, he is not for you.
Gauss has other means to evade damage, besides Kinetic Plating, utilize them.

2 hours ago, Sace said:

- Thermal Sunder pretty low range, too situational and costly Fire proc, only initial cast does Freeze CC

• Buff anything of the above, preferably the CC

Range is big enough if you build for it. Especially becasue it has no LoS restriction. At this pointI would like to see your build, but I assume you have low range.
While I agree that Fire field is mostly pointless; Cold Field is amazing CC and battery refil. How do you imagine buffing already hard CC without LoS restriction.

3 hours ago, Sace said:

- Redline too costly for battery, slow % gain when high duration

It is costly if you stand still and tank hits. Furthermore, do not make it your first priority to reach 100% Redline and your life will become easier and more enjoyable.

TL;DR
If you want to stand still and tank hits with Kinetic Plating, you will be disappointed. Don't make it your first and only priority to reach 100% in Redline.

[Sace]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

The drain is there to incentivise player movement. People complain Gauss cannot stand in the open and tank incomming damage (while he actually can do it, but I assume this is an oversight and will be fixed). This is not the philosophy behind Gauss' design. You should be on the move! If your playstyle involves a lot of standing or camping, he is not for you.
Gauss has other means to evade damage, besides Kinetic Plating, utilize them.

Following your argument, Kinetic Plating is therefore absolutely useless, counter productive even. I mean it really is, I never use Kinetic Plating unless I reached 100% Redline and/or need that melee damage buff but I doubt devs implemented a 100% DR shield for you to never use it. Every hit AND having it active but unused deducts from your battery therefore weakening your kit which forces you to spam Mach Rush even more resulting in getting hit even less. Yeah, no.

vor 42 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

Slow is defenitely an objective standpoint. Costly? you get a 50% energy discount while in Redline.

Even with Redline active you arrive with alot of energy deducted at the next open world objective. Unless Gauss isn't meant to run great distances.

 

vor 44 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

People also seem to forgett Redline affects all other abilities.

Redline only affects all other abilities if your battery charge is above 80%. With Kinetic Plating and Redline active, you cannot keep that battery level without going out of your way and spamming abilities to keep it close to 100%.

 

vor 46 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

Range is big enough if you build for it. Especially becasue it has no LoS restriction. At this pointI would like to see your build, but I assume you have low range.
While I agree that Fire field is mostly pointless; Cold Field is amazing CC and battery refil. How do you imagine buffing already hard CC without LoS restriction.

http://warframe-builder.com/s/9a591bd861fd3536 this is my build (slightly different polarities)

169% Range and I wrote how I would buff it. Best buff would be CCing every enemy inside the circle, not just on initial cast.

vor 54 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

It is costly if you stand still and tank hits. Furthermore, do not make it your first priority to reach 100% Redline and your life will become easier and more enjoyable.

I already wrote that I don't care for battery anymore. In normal play sustaining >80% is an absolute hassle so I just use Mach Rush when needed or beneficial and delete everything with half or less of the buffs while never using Kinetic Plating or Thermal Sunder. Of course that makes Gauss even weaker than he already is but it usually is enough for most content so far. Every other playstyle is less efficient with current tweakings, sadly.

[ShortCat]

5 minutes ago, Sace said:

Following your argument, Kinetic Plating is therefore absolutely useless, counter productive even.

It is not. Stugger/stun ignore enables Gauss' unobstructed movement between enemy groups. And functions as secondary safety net, in case you get an occasion hit. Then there is melee damage buff, when Redline is active.

8 minutes ago, Sace said:

Even with Redline active you arrive with alot of energy deducted at the next open world objective. Unless Gauss isn't meant to run great distances.

In open worlds hardly anyone can compete with AW. I mean you are putting a race car against an aircraft. This is unreasonable. Volt or Zephyr are in the same situation. In normal missions I hardly use the continuous mode, as short bursts are ideal for more controll in small spcaes.

13 minutes ago, Sace said:

With Kinetic Plating and Redline active, you cannot keep that battery level without going out of your way and spamming abilities to keep it close to 100%.

It is indeed hard to maintain battery on movement alone. With your build you have over a minute on #2 and #4, during this time are you not using the only 2 active skills which also happen to fill the battery? That is what Loza03 trying to convey to you, next to obvious skill effects, you also recharge battery. If you use those skills poorly, lets say just to reach 100%, you missmanage resources and time.

28 minutes ago, Sace said:

169% Range and I wrote how I would buff it. Best buff would be CCing every enemy inside the circle, not just on initial cast.

I have a similar value. With this you have a 40 meters wide cercle. This is actually huge AoE. No idea how you say it needs more Range, especially considering Gauss' superb agility.
Perpetual CC on Thermal Sunder would make cold field too strong. This is my opnion. You could easely look down entire tilesets. Do we need another Limbo? I mean such rediculous power made ground for ability immune enemies in the first place.

 

[Sace]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

melee damage buff, when Redline is active.

Not when Redline is active but rather when Redline is active AND battery above 80%, which Kinetic Plating is working against actively.

 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

In open worlds hardly anyone can compete with AW. I mean you are putting a race car against an aircraft. This is unreasonable. Volt or Zephyr are in the same situation. In normal missions I hardly use the continuous mode, as short bursts are ideal for more controll in small spcaes.

Y'know that this is supposed to be Gauss' great advantage? Every marketing video showed him dashing across open world. DE basically hyped the players with that supposedly unreasonable expectation. Why would I want to dash over water when I have mostly disadvantages compared to just hopping into AW?

 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

I have a similar value. With this you have a 40 meters wide cercle. This is actually huge AoE. No idea how you say it needs more Range, especially considering Gauss' superb agility.

With this you actually only have a 40m diameter (20m radius) circle that does CC only at initial cast, negligible damage and it even shrinks to useless ranges after cast. And pretty fast despite almost full duration build. 40m radius would actually be decent for a beefed up range build. Don't forget that at 100% Range, there is only a meager 12m in range for Thermal Sunder. 30m radius + perma cc would make this ability usable. Even with 280% Range you only get a 33m radius with one time CC. Volt has a CC with over 56m initial radius and even more on consecutive hits from the same ability, no LoS needed as well.

 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

Perpetual CC on Thermal Sunder would make cold field too strong. This is my opnion. You could easely look down entire tilesets. Do we need another Limbo? I mean such rediculous power made ground for ability immune enemies in the first place.

Yeah, our opinions diverge in this matter. In the current iteration Thermal Sunder is useless for me. Too high energy consumption to fill battery with it, CC is too weak for energy taken and range too low to even care.

vor 26 Minuten schrieb ShortCat:

With your build you have over a minute on #2 and #4, during this time are you not using the only 2 active skills which also happen to fill the battery? That is what Loza03 trying to convey to you, next to obvious skill effects, you also recharge battery. If you use those skills poorly, lets say just to reach 100%, you missmanage resources and time.

I do, but what I am posting here for the n-th time now is that just using those skills whenever they are useful or beneficial at that moment without spamming them every ~1 second makes the battery drop below 80% easily. That is a fact. When surrounded by enemies I do not want to Mach Rush endlessly, at worst pulling groups of enemies apart and scattering them across the whole room with Mach Rush, I want to kill them. Using your weapon unfortunately doesn't charge the Battery even though there should be alot of Kinetic Energy involved. Sprinting doesn't allow attacking in any way and the charge drops anyways so that is not feasible either. There is just two approaches:

- Keep spamming Mach Rush to maximize buffs but live with the fact that you are fighting less efficient and take longer to get rid of enemies or

- Only use abilities when sensible but live with the fact that your buffs and synergies will be gone or way weaker than possible.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Sace

[Teridax68]

46 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

I have a similar value. With this you have a 40 meters wide cercle. This is actually huge AoE. No idea how you say it needs more Range, especially considering Gauss' superb agility.
Perpetual CC on Thermal Sunder would make cold field too strong. This is my opnion. You could easely look down entire tilesets. Do we need another Limbo? I mean such rediculous power made ground for ability immune enemies in the first place.

The problem with discussing 169% Range builds or the like on Gauss is that Range is Gauss's dump stat: sure, if you build exclusively for Range at the expense of every other stat, Thermal Sunder's initial radius will become somewhat large (at the moment of cast, anyway), but then that Range isn't going to do much else for you. Mach Rush's explosion/damage is too weak to be worth building for, Kinetic Plating has no Range scaling at all, and Redline's homing bolts may not even interact with Range at all, in addition to also being weak. To top it all off, the biggest contribution from a Range-based Gauss is inferior in speed, efficiency, and range to that of Frost, which begs the question as to why one would even bother building Gauss that way. Meanwhile, though, all of his other abilities benefit from Duration in some way, even with its weird anti-synergy with Redline's battery charge rate: because one of the strongest duration mods requires the player to sacrifice range, this effectively means that Gauss ends up being forced to choose between sacrificing either his only source of team utility, or the rest of his kit, a choice I don't think the player should ever be made to make.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Teridax68

[CatboyPrincess]

I actually have no idea how nearly any of these negative conclusions have been made.

Battery decreasing: wat. Just move. You will have 80%+ battery at all times. If you stop moving you die. That's all there is to it.

Mach Rush: is literally perfect. If you want to turn, then git gud (i.e. the skill ceiling you're talking about) and stop and turn like a skilled player. If you want vertical mobility, then pick Zephyr. As is, Mach Rush is the perfect balance between flavour and mechanics. It provides CC, rapid response to changing battlefield conditions (can save allies in a blink,can intercept Demolysts/Demolishers, can intercept other important objectives), survivability through mobility, and ability to run away from dangerous situations. If you stop, you die.

Kinetic Plating: More incoming damage -> more energy -> more Mach Rush -> more battery -> more Kinetic Plating. If you stop you die.

Thermal Sunder: Mows down low level enemies. Gives more battery. Slows enemies or makes them panic. That's CC. More status -> more Condition Overload. That's teamwork. You can cast it while moving. If you stop, you die.

Redline: If you stop, you die -- the ability.

The whole flavour and loops and mechanics of Gauss are pretty much perfect. I actually have no idea how any of these complaints hold any water. Have you fed your Gauss a Potato? That helps. Quick Thinking helps. Adaptation helps. Having the right build helps. Being awake at your keyboard helps.

????????

Also, how on earth does anyone kill themselves with Acceltra and Akarius? You have to realize, you need to basically be trying to kill yourself to kill yourself with these weapons. I get the self-damage hate but seriously. (Also this doesn't relate to Gauss.)

Edited September 11, 2019 by Gwyndolin-chan

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

4 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

Thermal Sunder: Mows down low level enemies. Gives more battery. Slows enemies or makes them panic. That's CC. More status -> more Condition Overload. That's teamwork. You can cast it while moving. If you stop, you die.

Is there ANY way i can get useful damage out of this ability by spamming it? 

 

[CatboyPrincess]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Is there ANY way i can get useful damage out of this ability by spamming it? 

 

yeah, fight starchart level enemies with at least 100% strength and range

Edited September 11, 2019 by Gwyndolin-chan

[Sace]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Gwyndolin-chan:

I actually have no idea how nearly any of these negative conclusions have been made.

Reading the posts would help.

Also you don't die when you stop moving. Your abilities just become even weaker than they already are with charged battery. If not for the art style you are better off with other frames.

Gauss is a good Frame to play with if you're bored and efficiency doesn't matter. Just don't compare him to most of the existing Frames, he doesn't shine in any way.

vor 6 Minuten schrieb (PS4)Hopper_Orouk:

Is there ANY way i can get useful damage out of this ability by spamming it?

By repeatedly spamming Thermal Sunder with the fire proc (holding the button). But you are faster just using your weapons than care for that waste of time and energy.

[CatboyPrincess]

3 minutes ago, Sace said:

Reading the posts would help.

Also you don't die when you stop moving. Your abilities just become even weaker than they already are with charged battery. If not for the art style you are better off with other frames.

Gauss is a good Frame to play with if you're bored and efficiency doesn't matter. Just don't compare him to most of the existing Frames, he doesn't shine in any way.

I have and none of the issues have ever occurred for me.

Gauss is a good frame if you like going fast and have sufficient reaction times. Most fun I've had in Warframe in a long time.l

Edited September 11, 2019 by Gwyndolin-chan

[Sace]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Gwyndolin-chan:

I have and none of the issues have ever occurred for me.

Yeah, if you have no expectations in terms of actual strength or usability, you will have no problems. I own all Warframes and after playing them all I can safely say that Gauss is nowhere near top tier for me atm (If you don't count being basically invincible with quick thinking, kinetic plating, adaptation and p.flow, this will most probably be fixed soon)

If that mechanic remains unfixed, I would lump him together with Inaros at best.

[CatboyPrincess]

19 minutes ago, Sace said:

Yeah, if you have no expectations in terms of actual strength or usability, you will have no problems. I own all Warframes and after playing them all I can safely say that Gauss is nowhere near top tier for me atm (If you don't count being basically invincible with quick thinking, kinetic plating, adaptation and p.flow, this will most probably be fixed soon)

If that mechanic remains unfixed, I would lump him together with Inaros at best.

I own and play all of them except for... Baruuk and Hildryn.

Inaros is 100% pure usability at its finest. Also the strongest.

So with that in mind, yes, Gauss is extremely usable, responsive, zips around fast as lightning, and fits like a glove. And is also extremely strong given that they can 1-hit KO enemies just by tackling them into out-of-zone boxes.

"Basically invincible" is literally the epitome of usability and strength. Most if not all Warframes have this in some way.

None of the analyses go beyond "Gauss doesn't feel good to me". Design-wise, Gauss is one of the more coherent designs. There aren't any skills that actually feel out of place, and all of the design is united in a singular goal: going fast. The only complaint that holds any water is the 2/3 duration charge time. And even then, that mostly comes down to taste. If you don't like a long charge time or you like pressing buttons, then decrease your duration. If the matter then is "okay but the strength of Redline will be weaker", then yes, DE should change the scaling stat to be strength instead of duration.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Gwyndolin-chan

[project_eulogy]

I really dislike how DE pushed Gauss as "he'll be fun to use on POE/OV!" "you can run on water!"

Ive only ever seen water in open world. So that "passive" is pretty docile. After using Gauss and Itzal, i'd rather stick with Itzal. He's faster by all means then he has a stealth mechanic.

The one thing I am absolutely floored by with DE is the physics with Mach Rush. Hold it down and jump only to do a weak flip. There's zero momentum. I could see if there was a boat load of gravity to deal with but alas, there is none.

Then he has no team synergy at all. He's a solo frame at best but an actual waste of a Warframe slot if you're in a big clan and enjoy running pre-mades.

 

IMHO FIxes:

Mach Rush should be a toggle and when you jump, you should have some sort of momentum.

Thermal Sunder should coat friendly players/units with damage(depending) that cause abilities to deal ice, fire, or blast damage

Kinetic Plating(someone correct me/educate me on this) shouldn't be removed if you accidentally tap it again.

Redline should at least provide a small benefit % to players in a certain range.

 

Until then... Watching Gauss on the loading screen reminds me of the toy dog my mother had almost 30 years ago that you wind up and it barks, crouches and does a flip....

[Loza03]

5 hours ago, Sace said:

This is where our viewpoints diverge. I'd rather enter battle with a semi-charged 77s ability that is simply recast everytime it runs out than fire off same long cast ability in the middle of the battle only to spam Mach Rush or Thermal Sunder to get it to over 80% for the sake of it. By the time you did all this, I have already cleared the room and moved on, even with Gauss.

Circular Logic.

"Redline is useless because by the time it's come out I've already cleared the room."

"Redline is best used when you realise that a room will have a constant influx of enemies."

"But you shouldn't activate in the middle of a fight, because you'll lose a few seconds of killing."

"Yes you should, because the loss of 3 seconds of killing is outweighed by the benefit of 77 seconds of better killing."

"But I'll have already cleared the room. Also it takes too long to get to over 80% battery"

Redline is best used as an ult for a longer-term fight, not a simple room clear-then-move-on. You should also already be at 80% when using it. I mean, that's just common sense.

 

6 hours ago, Sace said:

You only brought reload speed into play, I only replied using reload speed. I know what Redline does. I also use Mach Rush to reposition in between battle and to get to more enemies. Even with Kinetic Plating not active, this is not enough to keep the battery above 80% at all times. If the battery is not at 100%, the %-counter won't go up fast enough either, which should be your ultimate goal, though. Because endless battery means full efficiency without spamming unneeded abilities and the close window of around 30s where you don't have to pamper the battery to get the most out of Redline is where Gauss actually plays pretty okay. Even Thermal Sunder fills a role because one cast is enough to get decent cc.

Could have sworn that was you... whatever, can't find it here, so, sorry. Mistook you for someone else.

Endless battery is a nice bonus, but frankly if you're putting all your effort into acquiring it you're wasting time. As long as you keep moving, the battery won't drain fast, so you'll have plenty of opportunity to be able to benefit from the buffs. If your battery is draining really fast, there's a decent chance you're not keeping your pace up.

Also, Thermal Sunder only needs above the redline to have the instant freeze, so you can get that right from the word go. No need for 100%.