Gauss is a design trainwreck - absolute intrakit dependency, ridiculously arbitrary limitations, not a shred of team utility of any kind

[Annnoth]

49 minutes ago, Fleuria said:

That description does not match my experience.

Then again, I might have been using it differently from you.

Perhaps. Ill admit i havent used him solely for melee cause again, i dont really do melee, but in my time of playing gauss it just ended upnwith enemies being thrown around as i run past them and stopping specifically in front is tough with the VFX and fov increase

[Greystrun]

Some of you saying that "Mach Rush is bad, MR is sht... I don't like it". Man, I spent a lot of time trying to get some changes to Garuda, because her concept art is no "blood mage" stuff, but to no avail... So, you know... get used to that.

[Azrael_V]

I dunno...I'm actually enjoying Gauss and I've already forma'd him twice. Yes he might need a few tweaks but a design trainwreck? Cmon. What's even more hilarious that there's another thread stating the exact of opposite of this one😂😂😂. That's the forums for you🤷

[Teridax68]

38 minutes ago, Azrael_V said:

I dunno...I'm actually enjoying Gauss and I've already forma'd him twice. Yes he might need a few tweaks but a design trainwreck? Cmon. What's even more hilarious that there's another thread stating the exact of opposite of this one😂😂😂. That's the forums for you🤷

That thread was made after this one, and both the title and the text in the OP were deliberately intended to be the opposite of here. Thus, I wouldn't chalk it up to a coincidence, so much as people just being petty drama queens on the forums, as per usual. 😂

I can agree with you that the title in this thread is hyperbolic for sure, though, which is one of the main reasons why it took me aback at first. I certainly don't think Gauss is in a great spot, but there is certainly much about him that is enjoyable, and Mach Rush especially I think is a phenomenally well-designed ability for the most part. The rest of his kit perhaps not so much, but then that's where's room for discussion.

[Azrael_V]

3 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

That thread was made after this one, and both the title and the text in the OP were deliberately intended to be the opposite of here. Thus, I wouldn't chalk it up to a coincidence, so much as people just being petty drama queens on the forums, as per usual. 😂

I can agree with you that the title in this thread is hyperbolic for sure, though, which is one of the main reasons why it took me aback at first. I certainly don't think Gauss is in a great spot, but there is certainly much about him that is enjoyable, and Mach Rush especially I think is a phenomenally well-designed ability for the most part. The rest of his kit perhaps not so much, but then that's where's room for discussion.

😂Yeah when I saw both threads one below the other I literally burst out laughing.

[BlackRoseAngel]

On 2019-09-06 at 8:03 AM, Autongnosis said:

Let me preface this by saying i enjoy the idea of Gauss and i really really wish he were good. I like the high speed feeling of mach rush, the idea behind a variable charge DR, the concept of the heat/cold battery exhaust, and redline to top it all off. 

That said, the frame is currently completely broken in all the worst ways. Let's start from the beginning. 

 

Arbitrary loss of control and functionality for no particular reason

Primary culprits of this are redline and mach rush. Redline has for some bizarre reason a heavily restrictive casting sequence that lasts for a very long time. Why 😧

But that's a minor issue compared to mach rush. Mach rush is how to fail at mobility skills 101. Lemme list the issues:

• Lack of any vertical control when airborne
• Completely unaffected by aimglide
• Almost perfectly straight (needs upwards of 40m to turn slightly) 
• No lateral control at all, not even a small juke to the right or left
• Autolock function that you have no control over and tends to make things worse instead of better
• If you don't tap cast it, it has a forced deadzone of about 1s you can't recast in, preventing sharp turns at speed no matter your skill level
• No option to cast it laterally or backwards, which to me is the worst one by far
• No option to strafe fire, if you're not facing forwards and open fire it instantly kick you out of rush (almost as bad as the one before)

Just. Why. At the very least allow lateral/backward cast and strafe fire so it becomes moderately more useful. 

 

Sinergy? You mean dependancy

The battery is a cool mechanic. Oh. Actually no, the battery is terrible. It doesn't do anything unless you redline it. And therein lies the problem. Unless you are in redline mode, the rest of his kit other than mach rush for meme run builds barely does anything. From the aoes from his 3rd for some reason losing their ability to proc past the initial cast, to the 2nd skill DR being entirely worthless outside of redline. 

That would be a problem in itself, and it's made somehow even worse by the fact that redline has this incredibly dumb mechanic that basically punishes you for building duration to avoid constant recasting. And forces you to keep spamming the incredibly bad mach rush to charge up for whatever reason. 

Just. 

Why. 

 

There is no team in I

This is like Ash if Ash had no real worthwile use in a team and no role. Gauss has no place in any team whatsoever, cause he does literally nothing for anyone that isn't himself. What the hell. 

His marginal utility can be summarised as a one time cast aoe fire/cold/blast proc or a slightly better corrosive proc with pitiful range and incredible energy cost. 

His main utility skill, his 3rd, loses the ability to do anything meaningful past first cast which is terrifying. If that is to be the case, the first cast should have a meaningful range at the very least, not 12m and shrinking. On top of the fact that this ability does precisely nothing if there happens to be an ancient healer somewhere nearby. 

 

Designing to suck

On top of all that, Gauss also has number problems everywhere. It's as if it was designed to purposefully suck. From the DR value out of redline, to the range on his 3rd, to the amount of armour strip on his boosted 3rd, to the amounts of constraints on his battery overcharge on his 4th.

 

Signature weapon? Suicide devices you mean

This might be the first case in warframe history where the signature weapons of a frame are positively harmful to said frame. 

The combination of gauss only running forward, the passive forcing you to sprint reload unless you wanna spend an year reloading and projectiles having the speed of a crippled snail is a very good way of making both guns behave as a suicide machine in the hands of Gauss... 

 

Might expand later. 

Gauss is for people who want to rush to extract as fast as possible, essentially Volt on steroids. It really exists for no other reason but to give rushers another tool to ruin the game for the rest of us.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 2 heures, BlackRoseAngel a dit :

Gauss is for people who want to rush to extract as fast as possible, essentially Volt on steroids. It really exists for no other reason but to give rushers another tool to ruin the game for the rest of us.

He's not particularly good at that either unless it's OW maps. Most speedsters can beat him due to finer control and/or the ability to scale up/down, while he's forced to run straight into things. 

Tbh I've been experimenting with a lot of different builds, he just doesn't have the stats and mechanics to properly work. He's like the rest of this new wave of frames - barely functional, surely entertaining, but effective? Not so much. They all share this perk of having 1/2 very big design/mechanical flaws that make them collapse on their own ass. IE Baruuk and its terrible ragdoll on his 4th, Hyldrin and the arbitrary limitations of her kit coupled with the inability to fight infested, Wisp and her "i do nothing actually well because the designers put fences where there shouldn't be any" etc. 

[000l000]

Il y a 22 heures, Azrael_V a dit :

I dunno...I'm actually enjoying Gauss and I've already forma'd him twice. Yes he might need a few tweaks but a design trainwreck? Cmon. What's even more hilarious that there's another thread stating the exact of opposite of this one😂😂😂. That's the forums for you🤷

At least OP did bring some arguments as opposed to highly productive smileys.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 21 heures, Teridax68 a dit :

I can agree with you that the title in this thread is hyperbolic for sure, though, which is one of the main reasons why it took me aback at first.

That was done fully on purpose, and apparently it worked since most of the times i tried to post feedback in a normal and not caustic way it got ignored almost entirely while this has spanned 7 pages 😄

[Azrael_V]

49 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

At least OP did bring some arguments as opposed to highly productive smileys.

😂😂😂. Try to relax ok.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Azrael_V

[Azrael_V]

25 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

That was done fully on purpose, and apparently it worked since most of the times i tried to post feedback in a normal and not caustic way it got ignored almost entirely while this has spanned 7 pages 😄

Well it got me too.

[Autongnosis]

il y a 12 minutes, Azrael_V a dit :

Well it got me too.

See, it worked! 😄 I'm kinda sorry for it, but the bait was a bit of a necessity. 

[Libpea]

On 2019-09-10 at 3:01 PM, Fallen_Echo said:

His 2nd skill only gives 100% reduced damage when you use redline. Normal mode is capping the battery at 80% charge, you are dependant on using his 4th if you want that actual 100% reduced damage and his 4th must also be on 100% to make sure this ability stays on and does not drain but even then a stray bullet from a nullfier will obliterate you.

I thought normal mode is capped at 100%,and redline is on top of that... oh, it;s even worse than I thought. I only found him a bit useful on plain, 'cause u can run forever to max his 4th. For normal missions, muh for me.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

9 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

That was done fully on purpose, and apparently it worked since most of the times i tried to post feedback in a normal and not caustic way it got ignored almost entirely while this has spanned 7 pages 😄

Theres a youtuber who titles his videos “why _____ is an absolute nightmare” even when he loves the game hes playing due to people naturally being more inclined to watch something they think someone hates and see their reaction

[Autongnosis]

il y a 40 minutes, Libpea a dit :

I thought normal mode is capped at 100%,and redline is on top of that... oh, it;s even worse than I thought. I only found him a bit useful on plain, 'cause u can run forever to max his 4th. For normal missions, muh for me.

Yeah. Again, limitations on limitations on badly designe mechanical dependencies. 

il y a 4 minutes, (PS4)CommanderC2121 a dit :

Theres a youtuber who titles his videos “why _____ is an absolute nightmare” even when he loves the game hes playing due to people naturally being more inclined to watch something they think someone hates and see their reaction

It works. Riling up mad people is an effective attention grabbing technique. 

[Fleuria]

On 2019-09-19 at 5:42 AM, Autongnosis said:

That was done fully on purpose, and apparently it worked since most of the times i tried to post feedback in a normal and not caustic way it got ignored almost entirely while this has spanned 7 pages 😄

Which would be great if spam were great.

However, Devs are likely to ignore high noise threads in favor of clear and succinct threads.

Still... you set out to achieve something and achieved it. So, congrats or something.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 10 heures, Fleuria a dit :

Which would be great if spam were great.

However, Devs are likely to ignore high noise threads in favor of clear and succinct threads.

Still... you set out to achieve something and achieved it. So, congrats or something.

This is getting pretty meta-y but let me indulge it for a little more. In my experience it's the exact opposite. Clear and succint feedback routinely gets lost in the sea of forum posts and thus ignored because, let's face it, DE cannot keep up with the flow of stuff being posted on the forums. 

The feedback that does get through is the incredibly noisy one most of all. This is pretty much based on experience (as i have no way to verify data or prove it since i can't have data on DE readings of the forums themselves) of now nearly 5 years of forum and game life. 

[Fallen_Echo]

On 2019-09-19 at 8:15 PM, Libpea said:

I thought normal mode is capped at 100%,and redline is on top of that... oh, it;s even worse than I thought. I only found him a bit useful on plain, 'cause u can run forever to max his 4th. For normal missions, muh for me.

If that would be the case atleast it would be a fine 1 hit defense system but nope:(

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 2019-09-06 at 4:03 PM, Autongnosis said:

This is like Ash if Ash had no real worthwile use in a team and no role

I'm glad you have acknowledged that Ash has no use in a team, which makes him a contradictory to what DE wants. At least before the nerf he had one way of helping a team and now that's gone. That (and more) is the reason why I he needs to be looked at again.

[Urlan]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I'm glad you have acknowledged that Ash has no use in a team, which makes him a contradictory to what DE wants. At least before the nerf he had one way of helping a team and now that's gone. That (and more) is the reason why I he needs to be looked at again.

I think many of Ash's niche or role issues could be resolved by making his augments innate and designing new augments to take the existing ones' place. Being able to spam his one to remove armor is useful to teammates; his Smoke Shadow cloaking allies can be quite handy to redeploy; Fatal Teleport to handle tough non-bosses quickly that are charging allies; while Bladestorm's augment is still purely self focused on helping him kill folks faster in melee ideally. I sorta feel the same way about Hydroid; but I think its a good point mention this on Ash.

[Fleuria]

On 2019-09-21 at 9:58 AM, Autongnosis said:

This is getting pretty meta-y but let me indulge it for a little more. In my experience it's the exact opposite. Clear and succint feedback routinely gets lost in the sea of forum posts and thus ignored because, let's face it, DE cannot keep up with the flow of stuff being posted on the forums. 

Sometimes, yes.

But then people repeat that, in other threads. It gets through, eventually (or doesn't, because they disagree with it, or because changing it is hard or they have other things to do).

[(PSN)Vexx757]

18 hours ago, Urlan said:

I think many of Ash's niche or role issues could be resolved by making his augments innate and designing new augments to take the existing ones' place. Being able to spam his one to remove armor is useful to teammates; his Smoke Shadow cloaking allies can be quite handy to redeploy; Fatal Teleport to handle tough non-bosses quickly that are charging allies; while Bladestorm's augment is still purely self focused on helping him kill folks faster in melee ideally. I sorta feel the same way about Hydroid; but I think its a good point mention this on Ash.

Me personally, augments are meant to be a choice to use to change the way the ability works plus I like augs that benefit me first like the elemental wf`s 1st ability aug changes. If you using it coz the ability on its own is bad, the ability imo needs to be looked at. Example Octavia is so good I'm most ppls eyes that she don`t need an augment. As much as Ash is my main frame, I think he needs to be looked at again.

The 1st ability is only good with its augment. Augments should be used as an option and not coz the ability on its own is bad, the 2nd ability could benefit by having better cc and even through ppl say that his invis is too short I have no issue with it, the 3rd ability has potential to be so much better just of the concept of teleportation alone and the 4th ability is terrible when it comes to activation speed, it`s too slow and other ppl can take your kills (even in low levels) and even more things that make it bad.

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM, that's my he needs to be looked at again.

[Aldain]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM

Even discounting Ash's position in the current design space...

Teamwork in Warframe is virtually nonexistent, one person more often than not can do the job of 4 players with no issues, hek, look at the arbitration threads where people outright refuse any concept of "revive your teammate" because it is interfering with their gameplay ideals.

Warframe isn't designed for teamwork right now simply because nothing in the game actually needs it or encourages it. 

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Me personally, augments are meant to be a choice to use to change the way the ability works plus I like augs that benefit me first like the elemental wf`s 1st ability aug changes. If you using it coz the ability on its own is bad, the ability imo needs to be looked at. Example Octavia is so good I'm most ppls eyes that she don`t need an augment. As much as Ash is my main frame, I think he needs to be looked at again.

The 1st ability is only good with its augment. Augments should be used as an option and not coz the ability on its own is bad, the 2nd ability could benefit by having better cc and even through ppl say that his invis is too short I have no issue with it, the 3rd ability has potential to be so much better just of the concept of teleportation alone and the 4th ability is terrible when it comes to activation speed, it`s too slow and other ppl can take your kills (even in low levels) and even more things that make it bad.

Overall Ash is a contradiction to what DE wants ppl to do in this game.... PLAY AS A TEAM, that's my he needs to be looked at again.

Totally agree, I feel augments should be optional as well, but some augments don't feel like they are designed to be optional but rather to fix design failings or act as covering the lack of those abilities - sadly in this case costing progression mod spaces thus making the warframe less capable overall for the privilege. In his case, that is why I suggested his abilities should have the augments merged into his abilities to allow him that purpose that the augments suggest he should have but has been separated.

On the topic of augments themselves, perhaps if they were instead equipped to the abilities themselves in the ability screen, since there is room; instead of occupying the very limited real estate of progression we are capable of further. If one wanted, we could have one unlocked and earn the ability to equip more as one completes the story line quests, starchart, or obtains upgrades ala Exilus adapters or Gravimags. Many abilities, particularly with the push to devalue moves against foes, seem lackluster unless boosting or healing, with smaller exceptions for exalted moves due to their nature of being modded weapons.

[Gurpgork]

I think the problem that DE has with new Warframes in general is that they aim to make them too weak on release and buff them later, rather than making them too strong on release and nerfing them later. And while this is partially about Wisp and Gauss and Garuda (especially Gauss out of those three), we've seen this at least as far back as Atlas. And many of the Warframes released this way--Atlas, Khora, and Titania, to name a few--still have most of their problems to this day, even after reworks happened. 

And I understand why they do it this way. They don't want new ultra OP Warframes to completely dominate the game for months, only for them to eventually take that power away and get people throwing tomatoes at them because is pve gaem no nerfs ever no kill my fun😠

But on the other hand, the literal point of developing new Warframes is so that people will use them, and if a new Warframe is too weak, then people aren't going to play them. People aren't going to buy them. Tennogen creators aren't going to make new cosmetics for them. 

The revenue angle of this might sound a bit cynical, but DE should really start overtuning Warframes on release, because I'd rather have a handful of god frames that could stand to be toned down than having a bunch of Warframes that are used for a few weeks after release and then forgotten about. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Gurpgork