Universal Medallions should apply to conclave

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Question. Would you even be remotely interested in conclave if De went and said our decision is final about the standing situation but with that being said we are working to make conclave a better experience for everyone?

or do you just firmly believe that warframe shouldn’t have pvp

Well, considering Warframe was built from the ground up to be a PvE game, yes, PvP doesn't belong in Warframe and the whole idea behind it is just rather insane, I do like PvP games, but ONLY when they fit the game itself. When you have this level of modding and power of warframes, its IMPOSSIBLE to balance perfectly. If they can't balance PvE then fat chance of PvP and the only reason why PvP even exists is to and I quote "Please the PvPers", if players really wanted a PvP experience and this has to be the most old school saying, but go play CoD or Battlefield or hell Fornite.

If DE said their choice is final then, well, there is no point farming for said item anymore. It is as simple as that, harsh?, yes and childish, maybe, but you take something away that can be useful and better then DE provided, then of course players gonna react that way. Look at Dog-Days, an pointless and time-wasted investment, people AFKed it, cuz they and I quote "It's much esayer to do, then actually play the standard game-mode"

And they turn to the players to blame and or Nerf/Change their minds on one signaler person, cuz they are dispointed with the choice. 

 

I have zero hopes for PvP ever working in Warframe, the only thing I can ever see being "good" is if we can play "Corpus Vs Grinner" simple load out, an simple class, go nuts or even a game-mode like DOOM is doing: One Warframe Vs Player controlled Stalkers maybe. Stalkers have unique loadouts to their class and one Warframe.

 

And why people are worked up about reworking Conclave, where we haven't even got Railjack yet and it's been what, 2 years last Railjack was shown and not released? 

[Bloodprince158]

Universal medallions should apply to Conclave, the main argument against it is that pvp fanatics have spent thousands of hours grinding in dead lobbies to get to the max, but guess what people are going to have to do with the medallions if they are allowed to be used for conclave again? they're going to have to grind for thousands of hours.

 

Universal medallions have a 5% drop rate on ROT C, and they only give 1k standing, meaning a person has to grind disruption for hours and hours and hours to get a sizeable amount to use it for conclave, putting in probably just as much work as a pvper in terms of effort in progressing through the ranks. if, IF, it instead gave 10k standing, then you'd have a slight argument against using them for conclave (although the 10k would probably have a drop chance of 1% or 2%, which would offset they amount they give) or if you could freely get medallions on the disruption tiles like you can with regular medallions, then you'd have a valid case, but not when the drop rates are this S#&$ for an item that doesn't give a lot for the effort one puts in.

 

Also the entire change was brought about by a person *@##$ing on twitter, with zero talks happening to the community about possible changes, or even having a type of vote to see who wanted this change. Warframe basically has 2 paths, the free path and the paid path, one can get most items (tennogen not included) either through playing the game and earning stuff that way, or paying with real money to get things fast, but either way you still have to invest time in levelling. basically this entire situation is happening because someone wants to block one of the paths, thinking that the path they're blocking the "get things fast" path, when both paths require time investment to actually get to the top rank, nevermind the fact that going the universal medallions path will probably be worse for someone than outright playing conclave, yet no-one is being given a chance to actually see if its better or not since it was changed instantly because a single person whined. For all we know, the grind could be so bad for the medallions that people might just decide to play conclave anyway, then everyone wins, people are able to play conclave to get standing for the cosmetics, and the pvpers have people to play against.

 

so unless drop rates are buffed or much bigger reward medallions are introduced (without a massively low drop rate), then universal medallions should be able to be used in conclave. a person also shouldn't be forced to play a dead mode to get cosmetics, especially a pvp mode which would mainly be inhabited by pros who've spent all their time doing the same thing over and over again, overall warframe itself isn't a PVP game, and steve himself said he wanted to stop creating islands, to stop forcing people to drop something and go do something else to grind there, making universal medallions actually universal would be opening the islands up, since people would be able to do what they want to get the cosmetics (like not doing PVP)

[Umquaptovis]

15 hours ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

They may want to get the elite armor out of the market if they want proper separation.  As it stands you can purchase the top tier armor cosmetics for 100p.

That is not the only thing they need to change if they want to have the PVE and PVP separate. Did you know that the Battalyst and Conculyst drop conclave mods that you can use in PVE modes. DE needs to be more consistent with what they are doing when separating the 2 modes. If the medals don't work on the one and only faction we would use them on then why do they exist? Its just another unusable reward until the next faction where they will forget to allow it to work for them as it would break that factions expected longevity wide open with how many medallions they will have.

Honestly I had no idea PVP existed here until they added lunaro... and that also died about a week or 2 later save for a few attempts on prime time.

[Katinka]

Wow.  some of these Conclave players act like they crawled over broken glass through seven levels of hell to get their Conclave Standing.

I don't like Conclave.  I don't much care for competitive gaming in general and doubt any rework will encourage me to play Conclave on a regular basis.  I tried it when Capture the Cephalon was the only gamemode and it was okay, I liked the objective based nature, but I got abuse for using Kogake, which put me off, and then deathmatch was added and CtC was a ghost town.  Deathmatch is boring so that was me done.  When Lunaro came along I tried that out, until it devolved into people perfecting certain unintended tricks of the movement system to be pretty much unstoppable and the fun little ball game became a boring Standing farm.  For a while though it was enjoyable and the daily/weekly challenges for extra Standing provided incentive for me to play, until Lunaro gameplay devolved to the point where receiving 3 passes was near impossible without someone agreeing to let you farm it. 

Now, I'm at the point where Conclave is not something I'm interested in revisiting.  I've been there, done that, bought the Sigil, no intention of returning and the shiny weapon skins, while very shiny, haven't persuaded me to keep at it and wont persuade me to return even if they are still locked away.  Ironically, one thing that might have made me try again would be if I could use Universal Medallions.  I've only got 2 so far but I pretty much gave up on Disruption when I got the other rewards I wanted and stopped wanting Universal Medallions since they have no worth to me.  If I could use them for Conclave, I might have stuck at Disruption for longer and might have had a few more and once I'd got close to being able to afford a weapon skin I might have then had a go at a quick Lunaro or CtC match to top up.  Instead I've just abandoned hope of getting those skins and with that abandoned both gamemodes.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Katinka

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

23 hours ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

 I see no reason why it cant be applied to conclave.

 

Indeed.

 

My guess?

 

They implied they'll rework PvP, or at least, they'll provide a "new" PvP experience (don't remember the exact words) and they fear people will max rank with the medallion and have no reason to play the new mode when it comes out.

Edited September 7, 2019 by (PS4)FastestKnight

[jonni_2]

If the universal medallions applied to conclave that would give me and a lot of other players reason to play.

As a mr 27 I have done everything the game can offer with exception of conclave because let's be honest it's just a joke and everytime there is a new update I get everything new that the update offers in less than 2 days followed by weeks and even months of nothing to do while waiting for content.

There is no reason whatsoever for me and 95% of the players to play the new disruption mode because of the garbage rewards.

Giving the medallions that ability will keep the players occupied and give them a reason to play disruption.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

23 hours ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

If Universal Medallions cant be applied to conclave then WHY would it also apply to Fortuna, Cetus and ventkids???

The reasoning behind this action hurts 99% of players that cant find even a single conclave match!!

For the past 10 months that I played on Nintendo switch which is a new platform to warframe - I've only gotten to Whirlwind rank in conclave 😒

If Universal Medallions can be even applied to Ventkids which I already maxed out then I see no reason why it cant be applied to conclave.

Hey, instead of ranting about PvP, why don’t you actually try it? PvP isn’t great but there is some fun to be had. However, consoles don’t even have universal medallions so I don’t know why you’re complaining before it comes out.

[Bloodprince158]

Just now, (PS4)TertulSee said:

Hey, instead of ranting about PvP, why don’t you actually try it? PvP isn’t great but there is some fun to be had. However, consoles don’t even have universal medallions so I don’t know why you’re complaining before it comes out.

they literally have said they tried it, they've gotten to whirlwind, and they're complaining because if this change is kept, they'll have to continue suffering with playing conclave, rather than being able to get the medallions to progress

[DemoniesGaming]

16 hours ago, Stormdragon said:

 

Tmw misinformation is so big that wukong is used as a prime example of PvP's lack of balance despite it being disabled from conclave since the rework.

Well sorry for my mistake then. Didn't know since conclave is so dead that I could never find a match, and the closest thing I had to conclave (dojo duels) do have wukong's passive enabled.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, DemoniesGaming said:

Well sorry for my mistake then. Didn't know since conclave is so dead that I could never find a match, and the closest thing I had to conclave (dojo duels) do have wukong's passive enabled.

So speaking on something you have no knowledge of is okay? 

[DemoniesGaming]

1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

So speaking on something you have no knowledge of is okay? 

I haven't played conclave SINCE wukong's rework, but I did plenty of times before it and all my other points still stand true. Power creep isn't that much of an issue in PvE, but it is a problem when it applies to PvP too.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 minute ago, DemoniesGaming said:

I haven't played conclave SINCE wukong's rework, but I did plenty of times before it and all my other points still stand true. Power creep isn't that much of an issue in PvE, but it is a problem when it applies to PvP too.

Power creep is no issue in PvP at all considering the changes to warframes in conclave along with energy gain And etc the only really bad thing to fight in conclave is banshee from experience 

[Uhkretor]

6 hours ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

what do you expect me to earn rep in conclave?

Not counting with the Conclave mods that may also work on PvE, with pretty much useless gimmicks, what exactly are you planning to get from Teshin by ranking up? Pre-built starting Warframes and/or skins?

You can get the Warframes easily from the Dojo or the respective Planet boss, after using the blueprints. And the skins, the only use they apparently have is to entice players to get them. They're even more useless than the Conclave mods that may also work on PvE.

... Seriously, don't worry about the Conclave rep... Its as useless as the skins that Teshin sells.

[Yual]

il y a 11 minutes, Uhkretor a dit :

Not counting with the Conclave mods that may also work on PvE, with pretty much useless gimmicks, what exactly are you planning to get from Teshin by ranking up? Pre-built starting Warframes and/or skins?

You can get the Warframes easily from the Dojo or the respective Planet boss, after using the blueprints. And the skins, the only use they apparently have is to entice players to get them. They're even more useless than the Conclave mods that may also work on PvE.

... Seriously, don't worry about the Conclave rep... Its as useless as the skins that Teshin sells.

I dont think they care about the mods and warframes, only the skins.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Yual

[Uhkretor]

29 minutes ago, Yual said:

I dont think they care about the mods and warframes, only the skins.

Even less of a reason to bother themselves with it...

[Toppien]

5 hours ago, Firedtm said:

But the people who play still get standing vs people who don’t and just use Universal Medallions.

They should be rewarded for their work vs some one who does not do anything.

PvP is work, PvE is easy/almost godmode.

It is a great reason for the Universal medallions not too work for conclave.

Farming for hours to get a pretty rare drop is not work? it is no time invested? it is not effort to get a good build for a long run? get off you high horse with PvP, PvE its the same amount of work and effort as PvP when you go for a rare item. its like saying practicing martial arts is more work than training for a marathon, bs plain and simple

People just don't enjoy to go against other players, why not give them the option to do what they enjoy to get the rewards?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Toppien

[Stormdragon]

23 minutes ago, DemoniesGaming said:

I haven't played conclave SINCE wukong's rework

Fair enough

Quote

 but I did plenty of times before it and all my other points still stand true.

I've been playing conclave actively for around 3 years and could easily take down those points since all of your examples seem to be based on weapon PvE balance.

Fwiw:

-Ignis has limited range so staying away from the user while shooting at its user will take him down without much effort other than shooting at the center of the blinding light.

-Same applies to Amprex since it has an even shorter range, worse ammo economy, doesn't cover your hitbox, and requires grouped enemies to make the best out of it.

-Whips don't cover the whole map and there are no range mods in PvP.

-Zaws were disabled from conclave a couple of months ago.

Quote

Power creep isn't that much of an issue in PvE, but it is a problem when it applies to PvP too.

On one hand, PvP balance is apart from PvE one, so powercreep isn't an issue. On the other, there can't be powercreep if new weapons aren't being added to PvP.

-----------------------

Now on Topic:

Imo, if someone wants to spend hours upon hours against RNG then let them go for it, however, there is a small detail missing here:

UniMeds are currently scarce, but their availability might increase over time and DE has intentions of adding bigger special medallions, as stated in the patch notes as stated in U25.7.0 notes.

With that out of the way, DE's decision makes sense to me, and that's mostly because of things that have been going on for years:

Every single time someone asks for conclave to be made more rewarding or by adding stuff like potato/forma bps, resource caches or other stuff widely available through PvE at an expensive standing cost, or for any way to encourage PvP gameplay without adding more exclusive stuff, PvE players immediately appear to show discontent against an idea that won't hurt them in any way.

In the same way, back when syndicate weapons were added, people got upset about the possibility of conclave offering "exclusive mastery" that would "force them" to play PvP and argued that if PvP had something exclusive it should be just cosmetics, which is probably why zylok, a weapon that in the game files is called "ConclaveLeverPistol" ended up as an event reward and part of Baro's inventory instead of as a syndicate reward.

Add there the amount of people purposefully spreading misinformation (i see the case above in this post as a legit misunderstanding, but have seen people who keeps saying the same things despite being proven wrong many times by different people), players trying to discourage other playerd from playing it, calling for its removal, openly commenting that they want to prevent DE from working on it, and people being hypocrites and calling PvP players (specially the guy from that tweet) all sort of names while making a huge fuss over some dumb skins and being validated by the majority of the playerbase and i start moving from a neutral point of view to completely agree with DE's decision.

Keeping these things in mind, it looks like DE's way to tell the community "you reap what you sought".

Edited September 7, 2019 by Stormdragon

[Uhkretor]

3 minutes ago, Stormdragon said:

you reap what you sought

Seems fitting... The current broken amalgam of a Melee system we have now is ALSO the result of pretty much the same attitude.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Lakais]

I have Max rank at Conclave and while I rarely play it, I do see the POTENTIAL of it as being the truest source and crucible to develop core gameplay skills of this game. Not relying on cheesy AoE but the actual movement, positioning and twitch aim reflexes. It is not perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination. The bunnyhop issues alone have given me gray hairs and I'm 30. I can say that as far as I remember, Conclave has been the ONLY PvP experience in my years of online gaming where I legitimately yelled and threw something across the room. And I have played a LOT of PvP games. 

And as such I was originally with the notion that these medallions should not apply to Conclave. There is some morbid, strange sense of "hard fought progress" to Conclave. An argument can be made that for what Conclave is, a "bypass mechanic" or tool directly undermines a core principle of it. 

But truth is, nothing will change if these Medallions do become usable on Conclave. In fact, things might improve. For example, I wish that basically ALL the Conclave mods be usable in PvE, especially the weapon augment types. There are some very interesting and useful mods in there and by design these mods are of the type that require some specific action of the player to make use of. Basically it's the faint hope that with these skins and mods getting into more hands and being put to more use, we'll see more feedback and thus, more potential improvements in maybe even tangental fields. 

[Firedtm]

1 hour ago, Toppien said:

 I’m entitled to it, because I think it is work, and not a video game that was meant to be enjoyed.

This is how you just came off to almost every one...

 

44 minutes ago, Lakais said:

I have Max rank at Conclave and while I rarely play it, I do see the POTENTIAL of it as being the truest source and crucible to develop core gameplay skills of this game. Not relying on cheesy AoE but the actual movement, positioning and twitch aim reflexes. It is not perfect, not by any stretch of the imagination. The bunnyhop issues alone have given me gray hairs and I'm 30. I can say that as far as I remember, Conclave has been the ONLY PvP experience in my years of online gaming where I legitimately yelled and threw something across the room. And I have played a LOT of PvP games. 

See this post this post @Toppien this guy has a point, one that has made me change how I see it, vs your entitlement attitude.

@Lakais you make a great point on the movement and reflexes, as for positioning, from what I remembered of conclave there was not much of that. Your point has made me change my mind on the medallions. Thank you.

[vomder]

It's real simple. Conclave is a syndicate, it's called a Universal Syndicate Medallion. Therefore it should work. Anything else makes DE look incompetent,

[CandyManCriminal]

Just now, vomder said:

It's real simple. Conclave is a syndicate, it's called a Universal Syndicate Medallion. Therefore it should work. Anything else makes DE look incompetent,

And "Almost universal syndicate medalion" just doesn't have the same ring to it

[Leqesai]

On 2019-09-06 at 9:38 AM, (NSW)Katsuro said:

Univeral medallions should be Universal no exceptions

I disagree.

[S.Dust]

What's funny about all of this is as someone who is maxed rank and has access to the skins I know most of the people arguing for them wont even use them because they are not great skins, the syandana is amazing but you have to play conclave to light it up so all we would get are people complaining that it should stay lit up (I have made this argument at one point but have moved to requesting more challenges for the FFA mode since it's the most played). People just want the satisfaction of knowing they can get something they didn't put in the work for. Also before someone says the medallion has a low drop rate let me speak in hyperbole for a moment to give an example of why that doesn't matter; If someone robs a bank and buys a car that doesn't mean they earned it sure robbing a bank probably takes work and planning but it's not the same as if someone put in the hours of doing their actual job and buy the car.

[TARINunit9]

This thread honestly reads like this:

"Conclave doesn't have any players, therefore we DESERVE a way to get those rewards without having to play it"

And that's not including the people who are just shouting "I hate game mode X and refuse to play it, therefore I should get all its rewards now because I got all these rewards from game mode Y"

I actually do think that Conclave rep should not be obtainable through any PvE playtime. I agree with the devs on this one. I'm having trouble articulating why, but I guess... in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, I shouldn't be given Elite Smash for free just because I can clear 1player Classic Mode on 9.9 intensity. No, Elite Smash is a very specific reward for playing PvP. Nor would I feel good if I knew someone else could get to Elite Smash just by grinding out Classic Mode; no, he should have to earn the PvP reward by playing PvP

This isn't even the "Hema defense", which I despise. If getting to Conclave max rank is too hard, then it should be made easier. But I do NOT think Universal Medallions should be part of the solution