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Random Nekros Rework Idea

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Nekros Rework

Old Version:

 

Spoiler

 

Passive:

Gaining max Soul stacks imbues Nekros with greater strength for a refreshable duration:

 

Survivor (Needs a number of Souls):

Upon death, Nekros uses a Number of Souls to revive himself 

 

Imbue (When at Max Soul Stack):

Soul Punch: 

Debuffs enemy Defenses 

 

Terrify:

Imbued with a Viral Proc

 

Desecrate:

Health orbs and Energy orbs are doubled in effectiveness, restoring 50 each  

 

Shadow of the Dead:

Increased Defenses of Shadows

 

 

Soul Punch:

The Punch Dazes an enemy for a duration instead of hurling them away

Gain a soul stack for each enemy killed while affected by the Daze

Augment is innate but uses Souls from the Soul stack to revive allies

 

Terrify:

The soul of enemies are intertwined in a constant state of fear

Affected enemies have damage vulnerability up to 50%

Intertwined enemies are all affected by Nekros's abilities, such that casting Soul Punch on one Terrified enemy will affect all other terrified enemies

    Aug:

    Decreases enemy armor by 40%

 

Desecrate:

Aug is innate

Creates a permanent Pillar for those desecrated based on energy color that allows Nekros to gain Souls by touching it 

Allies that touch the pillar gain health regeneration 

 

Shadows of the Dead:

Instead of energy, it uses Souls from Desecrate and Terify+ Soul Punch to create new Shadows from those that have died

Hold to consume all Shadows at double the Soul cost but gaining the Shadows buffs for a duration

Souls stacks do not go away when dying

Dying as Nekros while having Shadows of the Dead active consumes all Shadows and gives health based on amount of Shadows consumed, allowing Nekros to live once more

 

 

 

Update:

Spoiler

 

Update:

Increased Base Health

New Passive: 

When at a certain health threshold, Nekros gains an additional boost to his abilities for a refreshable duration whenever reached the health needed again. Last around 5-10secs 

Soul Punch: Debuffs enemy Defenses 

Terrify: Imbued with a Viral Proc

Desecrate: Health orbs and Energy orbs are doubled in effectiveness, restoring 50 each. Health from Siphon is doubled. 

Shadow of the Dead: Increased Damage/Health buff of Shadows

For all: Energy/Health cost is halved

Visual Indication: Glowing energy color somewhere

 

Soul Punch: Enemies are Stunned for a duration instead of being hurled. Hold to remove Souls to be used for Shadows of the Dead. Souls have their own animation similar to Oberon's Smite but the opposite- the Souls which would be identifiable by energy color would come to Nekros by the end of the casting animation, not to other enemies. Souls cannot be gathered once again by the same enemy. Uses Health instead of energy. Has an icon to show how many souls available, with max being 7. 

Terrify: The soul of enemies are Intertwined in a constant state of fear. Intertwined enemies are all affected by Nekros's abilities, such that casting Soul Punch on one Terrified enemy will affect all other Terrified enemies. Affected enemies have damage vulnerability up to 50%. Souls again would be animated if Soul Punch is casted through holding on a Terrified enemy. Uses Health instead of energy. 

            Aug: Decrease armor up to 40%

Desecrate: Augment innate. Enemies desecrated leave behind a siphon that regenerates some health. Allies can use the siphon as well.

Shadows of the Dead: Hold to consume Shadows and gain the Shadows Heath and Damage buffs for a duration. Consumption of Shadows is prioritized by the weakest to strongest Shadows. The Shadows are considered dead when consumed and each have a 50% chance of being desecrated during consumption. Shadows consumed cannot be brought back, so Nekros must kill enemies once again to gain new Shadows. When Soul Punch reaches max Souls (7), Shadows of the Dead prioritizes these Shadows to spawn when casted. 

Consuming any amount of Shadows will reward Nekros with the full bonus of Shadows boost, however the duration in which the boost are active is solely made by the amount of Shadows consumed (not affected by duration mods). Duration that each Shadows would give would at least be 5 secs, so 35 sec for the boost when consuming all Shadows in one cast. 

Shadows do not work on Oberons Renewal 


 

Edited by (PS4)yandelyandel2000
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Actually rather like this a lot, Makes him feel a lot more powerful as a necromancer and not just a secondary loot source!

Only things are that, I feel, the Desecrate pillars for allies to get a free revive seems a bit op. What I thought of is giving having his Soul punch augment instead consume 20 shadows to instantly revive an ally, or give an up allie an extra revive. Desecrate already does enough giving you 'souls' here along with loot and energy/health for days, so the revive on pillar seems a bit much.

But other than that (and maybe some tweaking on his terrify numbers) I really like this a lot, doesn't change what he has all to much, but fixes a lot of his current flaws (that being his abilities feeling rather dull/unimpactful and not synergising together what so ever), as well as doesn't feel way to op overall. I like it quite a bit.

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43 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

Only things are that, I feel, the Desecrate pillars for allies to get a free revive seems a bit op. What I thought of is giving having his Soul punch augment instead consume 20 shadows to instantly revive an ally, or give an up allie an extra revive. Desecrate already does enough giving you 'souls' here along with loot and energy/health for days, so the revive on pillar seems a bit much.

Hm I can agree with that

You mean consume 20 souls? 

Maybe the max Soul Stack could be at 20-30, considering you only need 7 for the Shadows so it won't need to be that high like Nidus

Edited by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

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8 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Hm I can agree with that

You mean consume 20 souls? 

Maybe the max Soul Stack could be at 20-30, considering you only need 7 for the Shadows so it won't need to be that high like Nidus

Ohh right I totally forgot he only summons 7 shadows, I had the thought it was more for whatever reason xD but yes! figured he could consume then like, the 7 it would take to revive himself or round it to 10 sense he's 'projecting' it onto another, costing a bit more energy, and then be able to revive/give a revive to another. Think that would work! (yeah like Nidus! )

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3 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

Ohh right I totally forgot he only summons 7 shadows, I had the thought it was more for whatever reason xD

I think I read that in the past it was around 20 something, maybe 22

5 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

the 7 it would take to revive himself or round it to 10 sense he's 'projecting' it onto another, costing a bit more energy, and then be able to revive/give a revive to another

 

Ah I see

Instead of consuming the Shadows to revive which has the problem of greatly reducing his survivability at a certain lvl, Nekros in this way can just use Souls from Soul stack (10). I think that would greatly help him at least after dying which ironically seems to be his most vulnerable state. Maybe that could be the passive. 

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What do you mean by "Gain their buffs"?  Am I going to have a ice barrier, with a nullifier barrier, while randomly exploding, and radiating everything?

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5 hours ago, Klaleara said:

What do you mean by "Gain their buffs"?  Am I going to have a ice barrier, with a nullifier barrier, while randomly exploding, and radiating everything?

I mean the Health and Damage buff that the Shadows receive within the ability. This would help his reliance on killing higher leveled enemies to get stronger Shadows, and the health buff would help in tanking more effectively while killing to gain new Shadows. 

And I know you can just put the Aug in and tank while killing, but I wanted to somewhat put more meaning into the use of the Shadows. 

Edited by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

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I feel like all of those suggestions could be augments and not a rework of his abilities.

Nekros is very good and unique compared to other warframes. He actually needs two augments to be effective, and other specialized mods. Although his build is very specific, it's really strong and effective in most game modes. His only weakness is being super squishy right after he respawns after dying. I'm happy with him, and only way I can see to make him better is some how give more wiggle room for different mod builds. 

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Might I also suggest not making his shadows eat Oberon's energy?

I swear every time I play Oberon, matchmaking throws a Nekros at me making me unable to heal players without losing all my energy.

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6 hours ago, Zebiko said:

I feel like all of those suggestions could be augments and not a rework of his abilities.

Nekros is very good and unique compared to other warframes. He actually needs two augments to be effective, and other specialized mods. Although his build is very specific, it's really strong and effective in most game modes. His only weakness is being super squishy right after he respawns after dying. I'm happy with him, and only way I can see to make him better is some how give more wiggle room for different mod builds. 

He is very good?  Nekros isn't very good.  He has a tanky ability, which I feel like should be a lot more than "tanky", and it isn't even that good of one comparably.  And he has a decent team support ability, which is also decent on the level of team support.

Then his 1 is damn near literally useless except for a laugh.  And his 2 irritates people, cause you don't want enemies running away.  Only good when needing to res someone.

Not only that, but for him to be useful, you basically require 2 augments.  Augments should help shift the playstyle, not be required to be useful.  Using up 2 mod slots to make his 4 useful, and another to make it so Desecrate doesn't constantly have to be recast due to energy drain, REALLY hurts your ability to mod him in other ways.

Nekros is in an "okay" place at best.  The ONLY reason people consider Nekros good, is because he drops additional resources/mods, which should NOT come into play in regards to him being a good frame or not.  Which is why I want it removed entirely.

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The current state of augments is either you have to use them or you don't use them. Like how meta mods are, always using the same ones on everything. It's not a Nekros design problem, it's a mod/augment problem. 

Also, every warframe has an ability or more that isn't used that much or at all. Doesn't mean that warframe is in a bad state. All warframes have their signature ability that everyone likes to use. Bad warframes tend to be the ones that have zero effective abilities, or there is a better alternative that can do more or survive longer. 

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The only change I have ever wanted to see for Nekros is for Soul punch to create a shadow of the dead. Because it would allow us to choose our undead army, and in the event of death say 3 or so hours in on a survival, we would have a way to get an army back up without killing things first. Granted they could remove the damage from soul punch and for all I  care let the target live, just have it literally knock the soul out creating a shadow of the dead. Freshly punched target replaces oldest shadow, and casting shadows refreshes them as it does now.

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On October 10, 2019 at 1:59 AM, Zebiko said:

I feel like all of those suggestions could be augments and not a rework of his abilities.

Nekros is very good and unique compared to other warframes. He actually needs two augments to be effective, and other specialized mods. Although his build is very specific, it's really strong and effective in most game modes. His only weakness is being super squishy right after he respawns after dying. I'm happy with him, and only way I can see to make him better is some how give more wiggle room for different mod builds. 

The first line just depends on your view of it. I could even make it simpler to the point where it would seem like a non rework to me. 

I am aware that Nekros can be good when he can tank with the aug. I not saying with this rework that he is a bad frame, I am saying that he could be designed better like a lot of other frames. 

And to the problem you stated, I gave him a much better CC option with Soul Punch+Terrify with a buff to weapons and the consume mechanic for Shadows that would allow him to better get his footing back much faster when losing everything by dying. I've changed most of his abilities to affect Health and a part about the consume mechanic that allows Nekros to manage the Damage boost from Shadows and DR from the aug, if using it 

You'll still probably only use like 1 mod on duration, most of the game modes do not require 90% DR anyway especially with a better CC option and Health Conversion and if you can manage health with the passive, you'll probably won't need 214% for the 300+% boost to both Health and Damage. So you'll still largely be the same, maybe modding for more range in the same build that you mod for strength for the passive and CC. Again, I don't want to change his abilities because I mostly find them useful, just want to add more to them. 

Edited by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

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23 hours ago, Nichivo said:

The only change I have ever wanted to see for Nekros is for Soul punch to create a shadow of the dead. Because it would allow us to choose our undead army, and in the event of death say 3 or so hours in on a survival, we would have a way to get an army back up without killing things first. Granted they could remove the damage from soul punch and for all I  care let the target live, just have it literally knock the soul out creating a shadow of the dead. Freshly punched target replaces oldest shadow, and casting shadows refreshes them as it does now.

I think this suggestion is a very different point of view because it would allow Nekros to forgo killing enemies in some situations whereas I want Nekros to keep killing things with his weapons in order to manage the amount Shadows. I just him to do the killing part better. 

One suggestion that I read which seems to be a compromise to my general idea and your idea of Soul Punch is to have Soul Punch kill an enemy when the enemy is below a certain health threshold. 

Anyway I put down your suggestion because it would be better. 

Edited by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

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2 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

I think this suggestion is a very different point of view because it would allow Nekros to forgo killing enemies in some situations whereas I want Nekros to keep killing things with his weapons in order to manage the amount Shadows. I just him to do the killing part better. 

One suggestion that I read which seems to be a compromise to my general idea and your idea of Soul Punch is to have Soul Punch kill an enemy when the enemy is below a certain health threshold. 

Anyway I put down your suggestion because it would be better. 

My idea has no dmg on soul punch, you still have to to kill the target, all you get is the short cc from the rag doll and a new shadow.

Soul Punch remains my only real complaint on Nekros. I never could see the point of a single target cc, with almost no damage, when I  could just Terrify.  The augment for Soul Punch, doesn't make me want to giving up a mod slot either. I would absolutely be fine with DE making just a change to soul punch, as the rest of him is fine, and I would like to see him remain Nekros.

Edited by Nichivo

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10 hours ago, Nichivo said:

My idea has no dmg on soul punch, you still have to to kill the target, all you get is the short cc from the rag doll and a new shadow.

Soul Punch remains my only real complaint on Nekros. I never could see the point of a single target cc, with almost no damage, when I  could just Terrify.  The augment for Soul Punch, doesn't make me want to giving up a mod slot either. I would absolutely be fine with DE making just a change to soul punch, as the rest of him is fine, and I would like to see him remain Nekros.

Well what I meant was simply the fact that you can use Soul Punch as a way of not using your weapons to get new shadows like any player would do, because in your suggestion you’ll be able to create new shadows from soul punch without the need to kill as you say. This is not bad in the case you mentioned, which is one of his flaws. 

I too would like him to remain mostly the same. The only real thing I changed without adding suggestions was the ability to kill shadows and a greater ability to CC enemies to the point where it would streamline the process of killing them and getting new/stronger shadows. In terms of playstyle, I think he’ll be largely the same frame but a lot more use/management out of all abilities especially if going for the passive. 

If anything, I think your idea should be borderline for a Nekros rework. Although, I think it can be developed more within reasonable ways to solve other things that his kit doesn’t have such as the ability to kill shadows to make new ones or debuffs to enemies on a kit that relies on weapons. 

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2 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Well what I meant was simply the fact that you can use Soul Punch as a way of not using your weapons to get new shadows like any player would do, because in your suggestion you’ll be able to create new shadows from soul punch without the need to kill as you say. This is not bad in the case you mentioned, which is one of his flaws. 

I too would like him to remain mostly the same. The only real thing I changed without adding suggestions was the ability to kill shadows and a greater ability to CC enemies to the point where it would streamline the process of killing them and getting new/stronger shadows. In terms of playstyle, I think he’ll be largely the same frame but a lot more use/management out of all abilities especially if going for the passive. 

If anything, I think your idea should be borderline for a Nekros rework. Although, I think it can be developed more within reasonable ways to solve other things that his kit doesn’t have such as the ability to kill shadows to make new ones or debuffs to enemies on a kit that relies on weapons. 

It would actually allow for that, if at 7 shadows you cast soul punch, it would create a shadow of the target, and remove the oldest shadow. Wish he could have  some updates to go with the Bat ephemera 

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14 hours ago, Nichivo said:

It would actually allow for that, if at 7 shadows you cast soul punch, it would create a shadow of the target, and remove the oldest shadow. Wish he could have  some updates to go with the Bat ephemera 

Hmm but wouldn't it always be better to recast Shadows, instead of constantly recasting Soul Punch for 1 Shadow and potentially losing all others? I can see that being used mostly when Nekros dies, but you won't be able to gain all Shadows back upon death so it's still a risk vs risk in terms trying to gain back all energy for Shadow of the Dead/Terrify and trying to gain Shadows one by one through Soul Punch/Terrify. 

And either way, Desecrate would require Nekros to still kill things which would be impeded by a number of weapons/lvl of enemies

So would it be enough for just Soul Punch to change? I'm no too sure 

If his first 3 abilities used Health instead of energy, I think that would also at least help because you'll always start at full health to be able to cast enough abilities to get back your Shadows without the use of Desecrate/killing to gain energy based on rng. And also you'll re able to cast Terrify and Soul Punch more to get easier kills while managing your Shadows with energy, which is how Nekros most viable/versatile build for multiples types of content is played. 

I wish there were more updates to Warframes in general. Hopefully whatever they're working is good. 

Edited by (PS4)yandelyandel2000

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1 hour ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Hmm but wouldn't it always be better to recast Shadows, instead of constantly recasting Soul Punch for 1 Shadow and potentially losing all others? I can see that being used mostly when Nekros dies, but you won't be able to gain all Shadows back upon death so it's still a risk vs risk in terms trying to gain back all energy for Shadow of the Dead/Terrify and trying to gain Shadows one by one through Soul Punch/Terrify. 

And either way, Desecrate would require Nekros to still kill things which would be impeded by a number of weapons/lvl of enemies

So would it be enough for just Soul Punch to change? I'm no too sure 

If his first 3 abilities used Health instead of energy, I think that would also at least help because you'll always start at full health to be able to cast enough abilities to get back your Shadows without the use of Desecrate/killing to gain energy based on rng. And also you'll re able to cast Terrify and Soul Punch more to get easier kills while managing your Shadows with energy, which is how Nekros most viable/versatile build for multiples types of content is played. 

I wish there were more updates to Warframes in general. Hopefully whatever they're working is good. 

Not at all shadows scale, and that ancient healer really needs to lose his soul, and come to the dark side yesterday. Even back before despoil, I never had energy issues. I actually miss the old EFF build, and spamming desecrate. I'm not much for the Ron Popei, "set it, and forget it" treatment given to a lot of frames.

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3 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Not at all shadows scale, and that ancient healer really needs to lose his soul, and come to the dark side yesterday. Even back before despoil, I never had energy issues. I actually miss the old EFF build, and spamming desecrate. I'm not much for the Ron Popei, "set it, and forget it" treatment given to a lot of frames.

I mean it is a good idea to have Soul Punch do that and I tried to place it within the updated rework in some way

Even if its not an issue for you, I still would think its a possibility that can make the frame essentially worse than Banshee in pretty much every way or somewhat close to Ember.  

 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

I mean it is a good idea to have Soul Punch do that and I tried to place it within the updated rework in some way

Even if its not an issue for you, I still would think its a possibility that can make the frame essentially worse than Banshee in pretty much every way or somewhat close to Ember.  

 

Banshee may have taken one to many nerf bat, but is still serviceable. Ember on the other hand, is not nearly broken as people say, I solo sorties with her frequently. I think many people just can't deal with a finesse frame. If they could, more people would play Harrow. People make claims like Baruuk is bad, or dies easily, when neither is the case. There are people all the time calling for reworks, on frames that do not need them. The OG Vauban is still in my top played frames, people forget he was once a king, and nothing really changed except new frame releases.

Exalted blade has clearly made Excalibur players weak. Back in my day we did 2 hour voids with super jump, and never complained about it being 3 feet of snow, or uphill both ways. Now if one key press doesn't wipe a map, people cry for reworks and buffs.😜

Orb Vallis was a lot of fun on release, then tears turned it into a watered down. *sorry I fell asleep, what was I saying?*

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11 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Banshee may have taken one to many nerf bat, but is still serviceable. Ember on the other hand, is not nearly broken as people say, I solo sorties with her frequently. I think many people just can't deal with a finesse frame. If they could, more people would play Harrow. People make claims like Baruuk is bad, or dies easily, when neither is the case. There are people all the time calling for reworks, on frames that do not need them. The OG Vauban is still in my top played frames, people forget he was once a king, and nothing really changed except new frame releases.

Banshee is still serviceable for sure, one of my favorites along with Vauban who is still serviceable as well.  She is probably one day going to get a rework regardless or something changed. 

And with the missions, Fortuna and Mot are still probably the only missions that remain somewhat difficult for specific frames when you solo for some time. I feel like they can do better in terms of such content though, something that would encompass all of which they have done in the game in terms of missions including archwing. 

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3 hours ago, (PS4)yandelyandel2000 said:

Banshee is still serviceable for sure, one of my favorites along with Vauban who is still serviceable as well.  She is probably one day going to get a rework regardless or something changed. 

And with the missions, Fortuna and Mot are still probably the only missions that remain somewhat difficult for specific frames when you solo for some time. I feel like they can do better in terms of such content though, something that would encompass all of which they have done in the game in terms of missions including archwing. 

I wish they would put more time into Archwing. Higher level mobs would be awesome, without having to sit around on interception waiting for them to grow up and provide a fight. Then again I am probably among very few with all the Archwing stuff forma'd, and it was pre gravimag days so it was done in Archwing missions.

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