Channeling

[Violet_Xe]

   Ok so this is going to be on a different post because as much as I'd love to put my ideas into the megathread, I don't really feel like reading through 1200 comments beforehand to understand the topic. This idea also sparked because I wanted Valkyr's Talons to have channeling and started a post about that but it eventually devolved into a mess about channeling. This will also be a post relating to my own warframe concept as it heavily uses channeling.
   Channeling is incredible and if you feel it sucks then... well I can't really blame you as I also looked at it as worthless until I got my hands on a riven that showed me what it could be capable of. Let me show to you what it could and should be and the dramatic affects of channeling.

   Now DE this is very important for you to understand and I know this will make me sound crazy and stupid, but channeling is quite literally one of your greatest concepts. it is BY FAR the most interactive Melee system, you just need to give us reasons to interact with it and Melee becomes infinitely more interesting. You've always strived for interactivity in games and critical thinking in builds. This playstyle would flourish in the game you want to make if treated, conditioned, and revamped properly.

{{{{{The Channeling Damage Needs Help}}}}}
   Now i literally mean the damage. When we get a buff for channeling it says 1.5X multiplier for our channeling damage. so you would assume a 100% increase to that would make it 3X, just like how critical would work right? wrong, you would get 2X because that 1.0 in 1.5 isn't actually real. you only get .5X damage boost by default. Now WHY would we ever use our precious energy on a form of damage at a ludicrous rate, rather than use a form of damage that consistently deals higher damage numbers and acts passively without a drain to our energy. If were going to be draining our energy then make it worth it. Start by making the channeling damage work like critical because it's just not worth it at the moment.
   In terms of channeling damage weapon variety we have very few examples. While weapons of crit and status litter our arsenal, we have only three weapons to choose from. with a 1.75X channeling damage, the Fraggor Prime, Synoid Heliocor, and Furax Wraith all have this. But that's three out of our whole melee arsenal for channeling weapon variety. Of course there is also the Vaykor Sydon which can blind on channel but you don't need a channeling build for that. All of these weapons are slow or tiny, and out of the Meta. This brings me to my next topic, variety.

{{{{{Channeling Variety}}}}}
   Currently we have three main forms of weapons. Those that deal critical, those that deal status, and those that hybrid status and critical together. Each of them has it's own advantages and all have players using them. This being said our weapons all share the exact same channeling stats. To make channeling more viable on some weapons perhaps change the drain, block drain, channeling damage, or add some passive for channeling to that weapon. This means that for some weapons, life strike would take priority over healing return. This makes both mods viable, but for different weapons.
   If we were to rework our older weapons which currently sit out of the Meta into more unique weapons for channeling, or you start playing with it, we now have a MASSIVE amount of unique tricks we can do with them. Imagine the Dual Zoren, an old classic, now has the ability to stack 10% attack speed up to 50% for channeling hits for 7s each. If you want a specific enemy to die quickly, use channeling to blend through them. Cool perks like that are only ever possible because channeling exists. It can help a ton with weapon variety. But only if the current mods are buffed to make these passives and weapons click with the play.

{{{{{The Channeling Mods Need Buffs}}}}}
   I've been an avid supporter of channeling when I got my first riven mod with massive channeling damage and I saw the potential it has. I began exploring ad looking around only to find that the system has been neglected for years. Where we have gotten mods such as body count, bloodrush, drifting contact, maiming strike, argon scope, etc etc just tons of amazing crit and status mods... Channeling has only EVER been recognized for Life Strike. Even then it has an alternate mod which heals per status tick. Not that it's bad to have that, it's great for people to have an alternative, but that's all channeling has ever had.
   Now even the normal channeling mods which would be seen as an "essential" to a channeling build are fundamentally useless and nearly all the alternatives for channeling are worse than the normal variations. They're also basic and outdated for old style warframe. For such an expensive way of fighting, even in this day and age where we have tons of energy, it simply isn't sustainable to begin with. The mods should make it worth it, but they don't. they make the drain WORSE. Now I know why they did this, they don't want to supercharge our weapons. If channeling became a new powerful damage type then you could hybrid crit/channeling to blend literally anything.
   Examples of mods that are far worse than their normal variant. Quickening only grants 20 attack speed(max rank) during channeling for -80% efficiency. I assume the idea was to stack this on top of fury but nobody uses it because -80% turns the 5 attack energy cost into 9 energy cost per hit. We could use a focus school, an ability, or something else to boost our speed so this isn't worth it. I get it, you don't want our weapons to become even more powerful then they already are but that won't happen if you just handle the mods cautiously. Rather than avoiding channeling figure out ways to make it work for you.

{{{{{New Channeling Mods}}}}}
   I've come up with this. Rather than making channeling an absolute damage type, like critical and status, it's a situational form of damage. Make mods that are unrelated or support damage while channeling rather than trying to make channeling damage worth it. That prevents us from growing stronger, but also adds more flexibility to our melee weapons. We have necessary mods but occasionally we manage to slip in a mod called life strike or healing return. that means we have room to wriggle out of for more diversity within our builds. I'll give you some examples going from very basic mods to more complex mods.
Pick Pocket (Melee Channeling Finishers grant 300% more loot -40% channeling efficiency)
Leeching Conversion (Channeling drains from health when below 75% energy)
Power Generator (Channeling Kills grant +1s duration to all abilities active on the field -10% channeling efficiency)
Relentless Counter (Consecutive Melee Channeling hits grant 3X more Combo Counter per hit)
Status Subversion (While Channeling reverse physical status and elemental status % chance)
Elemental Exploit (Channeling attacks have a 40% chance to cause enemies with elemental effects to pulse a single status effect to nearby enemies, -80% channeling efficiency on pulsed attack)
Energy Reactor (While Channeling out of combat gain 0.2X Energy Rate per second up to 4X energy rate)
Conditioning (Kills while channeling grow armor equal to 2X energy used. Armor deteriorates over 20s after channeling is over)
Critical Switch (Channeling Attacks increase base critical chance by 10% for every status effect on an enemy) *added after, not before*
Stability System (Energy spent during channeling decreases falloff range on all weapons with 60% efficiency for 12s / -30% channeling efficiency)
Energy Detonation (Energy Used while channeling is stores as a 6m explosion scaling off damage dealt and damage taken -40% energy efficiency)
Accelerated Evasion (Instead of blocking and reflecting damage, warframe overloads systems to dodge attacks completely gaining a short burst of 40% movement speed while sacrificing parry)

   These are only several examples of mods that I know for a fact some players would use. It even presents challenge for Condition Overload. That's not even considering the possibility of dual stat mods. We only have an electric + efficiency. No other elemental variations exist like for other weapons. I get that thematically it works, but there's thermal energy, bio energy, and even cold has a unique interaction with energy. Why can't we have these effects, or better have channeling be able to create higher tier elements with only 1 mod like being able to have radiation damage or blast damage without needing to make an elemental combo.
   Having channeling be a supportive form of damage rather than a flat or elemental form of damage, it becomes unique in it's properties and possibilities.

{{{{{Arcanes}}}}}
   I won't go around giving more examples as I'm sure you guys get what i'm talking about now. But we can get so many more arcanes if channeling becomes viable. This means more ways to play and fight. I don't think i need to expand much more on this as many eidolon hunters and weird players know that some obscure arcanes can be used for hilarious reasons to make weird playstyles. Some of which being the unkillable hildryn, shield wall volt, undying health inaros, nekros healing station, etc etc. Channeling can make so much more possible.
   For veterans who want to explore new content, this would be one of the easiest ways to open up dozens of new fun and different builds. It's not the new content we want but it would certainly add some flavor of discovery to the game again.

{{{{{Abilities, Synergy, and Warframes}}}}}
   Now I personally have a fan concept warframe that heavily uses channeling, but lets talk about the changes that could be made to our current warframes to make channeling more viable. If the following mods were put into place then DE would probably be more inclined to mix channeling into our warframe abilities, further diversifying them. To start we have Valkyr. I already said once in a previous post, but if her attacks are always tagged as channeling, she can make use of channeling mods without any extra cost because she already loses 15 energy in hysteria at 100%.
   Other examples could be abilities such as increase channeling damage shortly after using slash dash. Channeling inside of Fire Blast grants 60% fire damage on channeling attacks. Channeled attacks on shocked enemies arc electricity to more targets.

{{{{{AoE Issues}}}}}
   because channeling works by energy per hit rather than enemy per swing, it makes massive weapons unable to use channeling. Stuff such as the orthos, atterax, and other large weapons cannot stability support a channeling play style because of the amount of enemies it hits. But channeling can help increase the effects of our smaller weapons, making them rise to the level of our larger ranged weapons. I believe this could make us see a slight drop in usage of whips and other massive AoE Melee weapons. But that's only a theory and I can't actually prove it.

I get that balancing needs to be taken into account but it has serious possibilities for complex integration into our gameplay. Yet DE has let it fly under the radar for so long. It should be expanded upon and not removed like they keep talking about. I fully expect critical and status to remain dominant, but this can make our melee Arsenal that much more diverse. Please don't kill channeling. There are those of us that love it and see potential. 

[Kaggelos]

I too love the idea of a proper channeling mechanic in the game. What remains is to see how DE will implement it. If at all.

[Violet_Xe]

7 hours ago, Kaggelos said:

I too love the idea of a proper channeling mechanic in the game. What remains is to see how DE will implement it. If at all.

I mean hopefully. Ever since 3.0 was announced We've been getting mixed signals from DE. To remove or not to remove. heck even if it does stay still need to wait like 6 months for it to make it's way into the game. Fingers crossed.

[(PSN)Cryptyyyx]

I really hope that DE reads this thread because I really like the melee channelling mechanic, especially on low energy cost frames such as Hildryn (duh), Nekros (with despoil) and Loki (high duration and efficiency + zenurik or energy siphon). Apart from looking stylish, channelling can improve stealth game-play, if you are going for that. I would really like to see how we could change some builds if all the channelling mods were buffed and newer mods, like you proposed, were introduced. I think that it is kind of boring, that most weapons can be effectively used with the same 3 builds which creates situations where all 4 squad-members have the exact same damage types and often even the exact same weapon-types. Nowadays, most players run around with a crit-status hybrid (mostly AOE) primary, heavy crit secondary (mostly kitguns) and long range melee weapons (polearms, zaws...). There is almost no diversity at all...

I really hope that DE tackles channelling in melee 3.0 with thew intent of buffing the mechanic instead of removing it altogether.

 

AK - alias Cryptyyyx

 

[ES-Flinter]

Imo it would be enough, if DE would change the formula from "weapon-damage* combo-multipler+ weapon-damage× channel-multipler" to "weapon-damage* combo-multipler* channel-mutipler". Alone this little change would make melee channel much more useful. 

But about some special effect while channeling, like swords can use sword beams and hammers inflict Aoe attacks would also be neat.

Am 6.9.2019 um 20:42 schrieb Violet_Xe:

Critical Switch (Channeling Attacks increase base critical chance by 10% for every status effect on an enemy) *added after, not before

With this mod, we will need a new crit. kind. Red crits. are going to be to small. XD

[Violet_Xe]

1 hour ago, ES-Flinter said:

Imo it would be enough, if DE would change the formula from "weapon-damage* combo-multipler+ weapon-damage× channel-multipler" to "weapon-damage* combo-multipler* channel-mutipler". Alone this little change would make melee channel much more useful. 

But about some special effect while channeling, like swords can use sword beams and hammers inflict Aoe attacks would also be neat.

With this mod, we will need a new crit. kind. Red crits. are going to be to small. XD

   Well maybe. you can't fit all of the mods on there. Say this is what you have on your weapon, then what would you switch out for that? A necessary mod? critical damage? 60 60? It's kind of like the snipers we currently have if you make tons of good mods then it becomes a battle of playstyle over performance. Coupled with the fact that we have augments for out weapons now it can really get cramped.What mods would you sacrifice for this? where would it fit?
Primed Pressure Point / Riven / Primed Fury / Berserker / Blood Rush / Drifting Contact-Body Count / 60 60 / Amalgam Organ Shatter / Healing Return-Life Strike / Condition Overload / Primed Reach / 90 Elementals / Weeping Wounds / Maiming Strike / Guardian Derision / Augments / Set Mods
   Don't forget that this is indeed a channeling mod that requires constant upkeep for it to be worth it. You would need more than just that to work, you'd need a whole new build for channeling with efficiency and damage.

   Also while this does sound really powerful, remember that channeling would be limited to smaller weapon. Such blades like the atterax, redeemer, zenistar, and even the gallatine would consume titcanic amounts of energy with each swing because it can hit around 8 enemies per attack. The channeling drain would be hard to counteract.  Also remember that it's only while channeling. If you stop your critical chance is ded. It also means some players would run status setup weapons like the pox, atomos, or other massive status splash weapons. Certainly though balancing would be a factor lol.

   A prime example of a good critical switch would be the gazal machete. With the amount of status it can dish out combined with djinn, it could go berserk. literally. Used properly and carefully the lesion can also be an incredible critical switch weapon.

 

[ES-Flinter]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb Violet_Xe:

Well maybe. you can't fit all of the mods on there. Say this is what you have on your weapon, then what would you switch out for that? A necessary mod? critical damage? 60 60? It's kind of like the snipers we currently have if you make tons of good mods then it becomes a battle of playstyle over performance. Coupled with the fact that we have augments for out weapons now it can really get cramped.What mods would you sacrifice for this? where would it fit?
Primed Pressure Point / Riven / Primed Fury / Berserker / Blood Rush / Drifting Contact-Body Count / 60 60 / Amalgam Organ Shatter / Healing Return-Life Strike / Condition Overload / Primed Reach / 90 Elementals / Weeping Wounds / Maiming Strike / Guardian Derision / Augments / Set Mods
   Don't forget that this is indeed a channeling mod that requires constant upkeep for it to be worth it. You would need more than just that to work, you'd need a whole new build for channeling with efficiency and damage.

Nah, the amount of slots should for me not be a real problem. Especially, if I use a Riven. The most of my melee Riven are so rolled, that they save me the 1-2 mod slots. My Twin-Krohkur Riven as an example has +critical damage, +attack speed, + combo duration, -crit. chance on slide attacks. That Riven saves me 2 modslots, which I could fill with organ shatter and true steel. And the result is, that I need about 4-6 hits to kill a lv. 165 corrupted eximus bombard. Without a combo-multipler.

Maybe staff weapons will become a problem, because if the primed reach mod and needed extra range on the riven.

Oh, and did I mention that I'm a zenurik and exodia Brave user? Normally I run with a channeled weapon around and Enjoy my 9Energy/s. 

 

[OvisCaedo]

Don't worry, according to devstreams before PoE came out, channeling is just about to be reworked!

....wait....

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

The fundamental problem with channeling is/ has always been they are too afraid of power creep. Really channeling needs to modded outside of the standard mod setup. The reason nobody uses channels channelling is because you cannot build for it and still have an effective weapon. They have plenty of perfectly good channeling mods but you cannot use them because over all it reduces weapon viability to use that mod over a more necessary one. 

But if you have a dedicated channeling setup "power creep power creep omfg power creep" the try hards cry. 

Fact is as long as we have to give up mandatory mods to use the channeling gimmick, channeling will never be viable. Maybe if they added yet another bar that fills up as you inflict melee damage then press channeling to use that limited bar instead of energy you would have to worry about it less but they don't want to create another mod window just for channeling and that's really the only solution. 

[Violet_Xe]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

The fundamental problem with channeling is/ has always been they are too afraid of power creep. Really channeling needs to modded outside of the standard mod setup. The reason nobody uses channels channelling is because you cannot build for it and still have an effective weapon. They have plenty of perfectly good channeling mods but you cannot use them because over all it reduces weapon viability to use that mod over a more necessary one. 

But if you have a dedicated channeling setup "power creep power creep omfg power creep" the try hards cry. 

Fact is as long as we have to give up mandatory mods to use the channeling gimmick, channeling will never be viable. Maybe if they added yet another bar that fills up as you inflict melee damage then press channeling to use that limited bar instead of energy you would have to worry about it less but they don't want to create another mod window just for channeling and that's really the only solution. 

   The bar idea is clever but that would take away what I love about channeling. It uses a valuable resource to boost weapon damage instead of using abilities. If done and made properly channeling could be a complex risk reward system adding deep and meaningful interactivity to our melee system. it's potential is incredible but it's been crushed under DE's ignorance of it.

   Tweaking the system and adding/updating mods is all DE needs to do. I get that they're afraid of power creep but if used as utility rather than simple boosts, then it could work. You can't channeling on large weapons so this would bring smaller range weapons back into play. Given the right mods, channeling could be used for Xp farming, resource grinding, supportive plays, and other unique things that critical and status aren't capable of. yes you would need to get rid of mandatory mods but if snipers are anything to learn from DE just needs to add enough great mods to the system that are equally as valid as the other and we get varied builds without power creep. make the channeling mods viable enough with a tweaked system and it's great.
   Plus I don't think they're all that concerned about power creep or they're just ignorant about new releases. Zaws, new primes, mods, etc etc, have been adding to power creep and DE has done almost nothing to prevent it from going higher.

   Also I don't really see that many viable channeling mods. Some are useful sure but the majority, like 90% of them, are terrible.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

12 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

   1.The bar idea is clever but that would take away what I love about channeling. It uses a valuable resource to boost weapon damage instead of using abilities. 

   2.Tweaking the system and adding/updating mods is all DE needs to do. 

   3. Also I don't really see that many viable channeling mods. Some are useful sure but the majority, like 90% of them, are terrible.

1. It should not use a "valuable resource" period. It needs a bar that fills and then is depleted when chaneling is activated like a "action skill" in borderlands or a "super" in destiny, this serves as a control method to restrict you from being able to play in that system continuously which allows you to have a "limit break" like experience where you can do significantly increased damage but only in a narrow time window making it important to choose when is an effective time to use it. You're a gold novice on pc, I assume you are much higher rank on one of the consoles but understand that after a while, energy stops being "rare", there are certain ways to mitigate energy rarity to the extent that even extremely high power requirement frames like say saryn can easily keep enough power to burn the world down.

Use of a limit break bar, and significantly increasing the reward for channeling is the only solution or else the mechanic should just be deleted all together.

2. No. It is not all they need to do. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination something that's even going to serve as a bandaid on this problem. They need a completely stand alone channeling mod system that you mod to apply to all equipped weapons instead of having to mod each one individually. This system should activate when the limit break is activated, which augments the weapon, or perhaps "weapons" you have equipped (bear in mind that sword and gun is a system that's coming) where in your limit break mods go into effect until that bar has run out.

As long as, and I cannot be clear enough on this fact, as long as you are being asked to wave mandatory mods that you HAVE to have equipped to have your weapons be viable AT ALL once you get above level 60, no one is going to use a single channeling mod in any build because you have to build weapons the way that you do. Ultimately the only way to avoid that is to literally delete almost all the mods in the game and completely rework their entire scaling system from the ground up built around a system where status type and crit are the only damage modifiers and everything else is just gone. That would instantly turn many frames into trash, would probably kill their game, they aren't going to do it and it's the only way that you would get people using channeling mods.

 

3. Most of the mods are fine as they are, some effect efficiency which under a limit break system would extend the duration of limit break status, some seriously increase damage, a favorite of mine was always dispatch overdrive and of course there's life strike. 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As long as channeling works like it does, using a non rare resource to contribute worse than nothing to your viability in content, while forcing you to not use mandatory mods so that you can use a broken gimmick, no one is going to use channeling. Any minor tweaks are dead on arrival, they need to either delete the mechanic or completely redesign it from the fundamental level to make it viable, which by the way is what they're doing because they've already admitted the entire channeling system was a failure.

[Violet_Xe]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx said:

1. It should not use a "valuable resource" period. It needs a bar that fills and then is depleted when chaneling is activated like a "action skill" in borderlands or a "super" in destiny, this serves as a control method to restrict you from being able to play in that system continuously which allows you to have a "limit break" like experience where you can do significantly increased damage but only in a narrow time window making it important to choose when is an effective time to use it. You're a gold novice on pc, I assume you are much higher rank on one of the consoles but understand that after a while, energy stops being "rare", there are certain ways to mitigate energy rarity to the extent that even extremely high power requirement frames like say saryn can easily keep enough power to burn the world down.

Use of a limit break bar, and significantly increasing the reward for channeling is the only solution or else the mechanic should just be deleted all together.

2. No. It is not all they need to do. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination something that's even going to serve as a bandaid on this problem. They need a completely stand alone channeling mod system that you mod to apply to all equipped weapons instead of having to mod each one individually. This system should activate when the limit break is activated, which augments the weapon, or perhaps "weapons" you have equipped (bear in mind that sword and gun is a system that's coming) where in your limit break mods go into effect until that bar has run out.

As long as, and I cannot be clear enough on this fact, as long as you are being asked to wave mandatory mods that you HAVE to have equipped to have your weapons be viable AT ALL once you get above level 60, no one is going to use a single channeling mod in any build because you have to build weapons the way that you do. Ultimately the only way to avoid that is to literally delete almost all the mods in the game and completely rework their entire scaling system from the ground up built around a system where status type and crit are the only damage modifiers and everything else is just gone. That would instantly turn many frames into trash, would probably kill their game, they aren't going to do it and it's the only way that you would get people using channeling mods.

 

3. Most of the mods are fine as they are, some effect efficiency which under a limit break system would extend the duration of limit break status, some seriously increase damage, a favorite of mine was always dispatch overdrive and of course there's life strike. 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As long as channeling works like it does, using a non rare resource to contribute worse than nothing to your viability in content, while forcing you to not use mandatory mods so that you can use a broken gimmick, no one is going to use channeling. Any minor tweaks are dead on arrival, they need to either delete the mechanic or completely redesign it from the fundamental level to make it viable, which by the way is what they're doing because they've already admitted the entire channeling system was a failure.

   I do see where you're coming from as it really does sound good but at this point you can't debate. It's an opinion. Both our sides have their benefits and reasons for why channeling should be a certain way.
   It's only because we an gain so much energy now that channeling can become viable with some corrections. Changing the mods, adding new useful mods, Fixing the channeling damage% issue, removing the diminishing returns of channeling over time, and lower the cost of channeling slightly. Then it could be used.
   The issues I have with your ideas are this. For starters it would remove why I like it in the first place. Using warframe energy rather than a bar makes it feel uniquely warframe instead of a copied limit break system. Energy is also used to make some support / tank warframes have an offensive outlet for their energy. If your changes you put in it would end up being a watered down press this for some damage for X time, a watered down system. It's wasted potential because channeling could be the most interactive system we have in the whole game is designed correctly.

   The system doesn't need to stand alone as I know some frames can use their abilities while channeling and feel completely fine. Hildryn, Nekros, Trinity, Harrow, and Ember. Not only that you don't need those mods to be viable at lvl 60+ I have fought high level enemies at 120-160 and still cleaned them. Not as easily as if I had critical or AoE weapons but I was still competitive with some damage warframes. You talk about NEEDING these mandatory mods but let me show you where you're wrong because if what you say is true, snipers don't fit into your equation. All the following mods are viable and seen as mandatory, but many players prefer one over the other depending on mission, rifle, and play style.

Argon scope, Lasting Purity, Split Chamber, Serration, Hunter Munitions, Bladed Rounds, Charged Chamber, Vital Sense, Point Strike, Target Acquired, Elementals, Depleted Reload, Sharpshooter, Rivens, 60 60 mods

   You don't seem to see what I'm saying. Make a channeling mod good enough to make players want to use them. We have examples of this. it's called Life Strike. What I'm suggesting is another channeling mod to sneak it's way into other players builds, utility not damage.
   Channeling isn't for everyone, much like how slide/air attacks aren't for everyone, charge attacks aren't for everyone. It's why we have players running with glaives rather than other meta weapons. it's why we have maiming strike builds, it's why some people run bane mods rather than normal damage. One mod can change everything, and you don't seem to see that. Status was pitiful before Condition Overload was released. Seriously I laughed whenever I saw status builds. After that it rose as a viable damage type, channeling can have the same story, the same redemption. It's wasted potential for something DE has wanted for the longest time. Interactivity.

   I'm not saying this option doesn't have risks, it would take quite some time to develop but I believe with 100% of myself that it's worth it. I'm not asking for channeling to do damage, I'm asking for it to alter play styles in unique ways. Ways to shift playstyles and shift the Meta to a completely different area. Changes would be needed to crit and status for sure and they need to rework the scaling system eventually anyways.

   I once saw channeling like you and other players did too. A broken, worthless system to be deleted. A forgotten relic of the past. But when i got a riven mod with channeling damage it all changed and I saw what it could actually become. Channeling has been completely mistreated and it's unfair. Channeling is in the exact same place status was preC-O. it deserves mods and a Channeling 2.0 but we never get anything worthwhile. There are some decent ones but they are unusable with the current channeling foundation.
   I admit in your limit break system those mods would work really well, but it's still just a mod, set and press every once so often. It's not nearly as engaging or fun. Plus there would be power creep in your alternative as well.

[ES-Flinter]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx:

1. It should not use a "valuable resource" period. It needs a bar that fills and then is depleted when chaneling is activated like a "action skill" in borderlands or a "super" in destiny, this serves as a control method to restrict you from being able to play in that system continuously which allows you to have a "limit break" like experience where you can do significantly increased damage but only in a narrow time window making it important to choose when is an effective time to use it. You're a gold novice on pc, I assume you are much higher rank on one of the consoles but understand that after a while, energy stops being "rare", there are certain ways to mitigate energy rarity to the extent that even extremely high power requirement frames like say saryn can easily keep enough power to burn the world down.

Use of a limit break bar, and significantly increasing the reward for channeling is the only solution or else the mechanic should just be deleted all together.

2. No. It is not all they need to do. It isn't by any stretch of the imagination something that's even going to serve as a bandaid on this problem. They need a completely stand alone channeling mod system that you mod to apply to all equipped weapons instead of having to mod each one individually. This system should activate when the limit break is activated, which

augments the weapon, or perhaps "weapons" you have equipped (bear in mind that sword and gun is a system that's coming) where in your limit break mods go into effect until that bar has run out.

As long as, and I cannot be clear enough on this fact, as long as you are being asked to wave mandatory mods that you HAVE to have equipped to have your weapons be viable AT ALL once you get above level 60, no one is going to use a single channeling mod in any build because you have to build weapons the way that you do. Ultimately the only way to avoid that is to literally delete almost all the mods in the game and completely rework their entire scaling system from the ground up built around a system where status type and crit are the only damage modifiers and everything else is just gone. That would instantly turn many frames into trash, would probably kill their game, they aren't going to do it and it's the only way that you would get people using channeling mods.

 

3. Most of the mods are fine as they are, some effect efficiency which under a limit break system would extend the duration of limit break status, some seriously increase damage, a favorite of mine was always dispatch overdrive and of course there's life strike. 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As long as channeling works like it does, using a non rare resource to contribute worse than nothing to your viability in content, while forcing you to not use mandatory mods so that you can use a broken gimmick, no one is going to use channeling. Any minor tweaks are dead on arrival, they need to either delete the mechanic or completely redesign it from the fundamental level to make it viable, which by the way is what they're doing because they've already admitted the entire channeling system was a failure.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Violet_Xe:

   I do see where you're coming from as it really does sound good but at this point you can't debate. It's an opinion. Both our sides have their benefits and reasons for why channeling should be a certain way.
   It's only because we an gain so much energy now that channeling can become viable with some corrections. Changing the mods, adding new useful mods, Fixing the channeling damage% issue, removing the diminishing returns of channeling over time, and lower the cost of channeling slightly. Then it could be used.
   The issues I have with your ideas are this. For starters it would remove why I like it in the first place. Using warframe energy rather than a bar makes it feel uniquely warframe instead of a copied limit break system. Energy is also used to make some support / tank warframes have an offensive outlet for their energy. If your changes you put in it would end up being a watered down press this for some damage for X time, a watered down system. It's wasted potential because channeling could be the most interactive system we have in the whole game is designed correctly.

   The system doesn't need to stand alone as I know some frames can use their abilities while channeling and feel completely fine. Hildryn, Nekros, Trinity, Harrow, and Ember. Not only that you don't need those mods to be viable at lvl 60+ I have fought high level enemies at 120-160 and still cleaned them. Not as easily as if I had critical or AoE weapons but I was still competitive with some damage warframes. You talk about NEEDING these mandatory mods but let me show you where you're wrong because if what you say is true, snipers don't fit into your equation. All the following mods are viable and seen as mandatory, but many players prefer one over the other depending on mission, rifle, and play style.

Argon scope, Lasting Purity, Split Chamber, Serration, Hunter Munitions, Bladed Rounds, Charged Chamber, Vital Sense, Point Strike, Target Acquired, Elementals, Depleted Reload, Sharpshooter, Rivens, 60 60 mods

   You don't seem to see what I'm saying. Make a channeling mod good enough to make players want to use them. We have examples of this. it's called Life Strike. What I'm suggesting is another channeling mod to sneak it's way into other players builds, utility not damage.
   Channeling isn't for everyone, much like how slide/air attacks aren't for everyone, charge attacks aren't for everyone. It's why we have players running with glaives rather than other meta weapons. it's why we have maiming strike builds, it's why some people run bane mods rather than normal damage. One mod can change everything, and you don't seem to see that. Status was pitiful before Condition Overload was released. Seriously I laughed whenever I saw status builds. After that it rose as a viable damage type, channeling can have the same story, the same redemption. It's wasted potential for something DE has wanted for the longest time. Interactivity.

   I'm not saying this option doesn't have risks, it would take quite some time to develop but I believe with 100% of myself that it's worth it. I'm not asking for channeling to do damage, I'm asking for it to alter play styles in unique ways. Ways to shift playstyles and shift the Meta to a completely different area. Changes would be needed to crit and status for sure and they need to rework the scaling system eventually anyways.

   I once saw channeling like you and other players did too. A broken, worthless system to be deleted. A forgotten relic of the past. But when i got a riven mod with channeling damage it all changed and I saw what it could actually become. Channeling has been completely mistreated and it's unfair. Channeling is in the exact same place status was preC-O. it deserves mods and a Channeling 2.0 but we never get anything worthwhile. There are some decent ones but they are unusable with the current channeling foundation.
   I admit in your limit break system those mods would work really well, but it's still just a mod, set and press every once so often. It's not nearly as engaging or fun. Plus there would be power creep in your alternative as well.

What is with a combination between your both ideas? The standard limitbreak time would be 30s, but if you exceed this time, you will lose 5 Energy per second. One this way, you can still use channeling as an short limit break ability, but if you do it right, you can still use channeling for ever.

I think a complete new standalone channeling system would be the better idea. On this way you can have a very good "normal" weapon, but you have also a specialized channeling build, which fits your playstyle. Who knows, maybe DE will allow us to use multiple duplicates of one and the same mod in one build for channeling (Using 8-times the mod, which increase the damage by 100% per mod, but reducing the total channeling time to 3sek and energy cost to 50E/s.). Would allow a bit of more variety.

vor 10 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Black-Cat-Jinx:

They need a completely stand alone channeling mod system that you mod to apply to all equipped weapons instead of having to mod each one individually.

Change it to one channeling mod system for every used warframe and I agree with you. Because a Chroma melee player will need a different build, than an Ash melee player.

Edited September 27, 2019 by ES-Flinter