Diminishing Returns?

[Kwikwilyaqa]

Stun/knockback lock is not a mechanic and makes some factions/bosses just annoying (recently EVERYTHING can stun/knockback/push/thrown/negate/magnetize/ignore/nullify the player repeatedly with no consequence, affecting gameplay greatly - if you can call this "gameplay", after all is just a bunch of mechanics lying around). 

DR is such a basic QoL and gameplay improvement. A simple scaling from 100%-50%-25%-immune (in a 15-20 secs frame, refreshing when a new effect is applied until immune - than decaying normally and resetting the effects back to 100%) to such effects magnitudes can fix the poor AI that push all the CC effects at once, pushing the player around and ruining some fights with annoyances (that are not effective against the player, just plain annoying/boring).

The biggest example is of course The Profit Taker (basically the Corpus from the Vallis). The orb have blast (from misiles than only affect the player, just because), impact procs (from too many sources, like limbs - that proc even if you touch them without any momentum in the actual limbs) and shields to push back the player doing so reppetely with almost no cooldown in between nothing, is just one after another (and the body stomp if a player go underneath the orb have almost no CD at all - sometimes not even animation, just the surprise mag proc and sound). The constant wave of mobs have the hard landing (so hard that makes the player almost fly), proc impacts on hit (on EACH hit from that melee guy that do the hard landing and fly around), various stomps, invincibility just because laziness (serious, invincibility is just the lack of a good idea, need to be removed completely - i'm talking about mobs with invincible phases like the Jackal from the Vallis or the Scyto Raknoids, but there's plenty of "is invincible because i said so" in the game), some insane slash proc from the terra-archgun guy, the electric net on the ground from the casual orbs that join the fight, some nullifiers flying around, several other stuff that i can't remember now and that MOA with the "Scorpion's thing" (not the WF one, the original)... one single ability with no consideration or actual math/mechanic behind, since any skinny mob can push heavy/slim warframes with the same effectiveness, cause a impact proc on hit, can track player on mid air, disable abilities/operator when pushing, and always is the very FIRST ability used, no matter if one or ten of the same mob spawns... Is literally a WTF moment since a simple rope have ALL the disabling abilities of ALL the others mechanics (and continually added to "new" enemies as something good and balanced). Serious, Baku in Azerbaijan is cleaner than this Profit fight. 

And i'm not saying the fight is difficult by any means, or the mechanics are bad. Is just... overwhelming annoying when unavoidable things become so common and are so tight together. Space the fases, put longer CD's in CC abilities, have mobs using abilities randomly (better to use them optimized, but randomly is better than how it works now). This three things together with DR and Profit can be actually fun (i think is fun already, but i'm a bit odd and have all the gear optimized). Just imagine look in the eyes of a Scorpion (the grineer one) you found in a corridor, you both at 0.2m away from each other staring blank... and she uses her sword... Sounds great right? Better when she uses the rope and you are in a immune period after other 4 did the same with you...

Serious DE, if the future of warframe is this we need DR. Even the good mod to avoid knockback is actually a CC...

[(NSW)Katsuro]

use Gauss or atlas

other option...

just use handspring and dodge?

[Kwikwilyaqa]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

use Gauss or atlas

other option...

just use handspring and dodge?

You know that DR is not a bandaid mod/frame/excuse but an actual mechanic used in many games for quite a while right? The point is not "dodge the thing dummie" or "just use X because Y and ur good because B", the point is "if you are unable to avoid you have some time to catch up".

It does not change anything, you need to dodge and you can use handspring because the immunity happens in the forth interaction in a short amount of time that is limited too - is a failsafe for stun locks, nothing else. Probably only in dirty places like the profit taker you'll ever see the DR procs.

[(NSW)Katsuro]

36 minutes ago, Kwikwilyaqa said:

You know that DR is not a bandaid mod/frame/excuse but an actual mechanic used in many games for quite a while right? The point is not "dodge the thing dummie" or "just use X because Y and ur good because B", the point is "if you are unable to avoid you have some time to catch up".

It does not change anything, you need to dodge and you can use handspring because the immunity happens in the forth interaction in a short amount of time that is limited too - is a failsafe for stun locks, nothing else. Probably only in dirty places like the profit taker you'll ever see the DR procs.

well thats what I do in profit taker just use handspring and dodge, profit taker dies in 7min thats the only solution

[Kwikwilyaqa]

40 minutes ago, (NSW)Katsuro said:

well thats what I do in profit taker just use handspring and dodge, profit taker dies in 7min thats the only solution

You can do better you know (7min is kinda meh)... but that's not the point again! The profit taker is the "best example" for a good DR application. Diminishing Returns. Not - the - fight - itself - or - how - you - do - it. The fight is a good place to be to understand how this mechanic can be beneficial - its a self-regulating tool that only applies when the AI fails (like the example with the scorpions thingy) or there is too much going on (like on the profit). The player still suffer the effects, you need to dodge, you receive damage, you everything. Nothing is changed, but improved. As one new example: you will still do the fight in 7min if you don't gear up better (and don't use fodder frames) and remove that handspring to have a better build and damage.

And DR applies to enemies as well - and is a great way to "balance" bosses/special enemies versus several players abilities (Crowd Control only abilities e procs, not damage or any other thing is affected), way better than plain invincibility or nullifiers. What made me post here in Feedback (and not Suggestion) is because DE already use this feature - like in the demolishers in disruptions p.ex., where they get immune to some CC abilities after some uses, but i don't know if it is a DR or simple immunity after X times in this case... Is about time to expand this to the whole game.

[TheKazz91]

So this was a very long to say constantly being CC locked is not fun. I agree. I don't mind getting CCd but getting CC locked for 5+ seconds that results in unresponsive gameplay isn't fun enjoyable or even particularly difficult. In high level missions this amounts to "you die now because RNG said so." It doesn't let you do anything at that point and it doesn't matter how good you play it's just math and RNG. You die because thing X started a chain stun/root/knockdown and you don't have enough DR to just deal with that. Bad gameplay

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

Pull out a Trinity. Spam Energy Vampire and Blessing. Since we have DR everyone is immune to CC stuff just got to heal people. Team can ignore small frys and focus on Profit Taker.

[Kwikwilyaqa]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

Pull out a Trinity. Spam Energy Vampire and Blessing. Since we have DR everyone is immune to CC stuff just got to heal people. Team can ignore small frys and focus on Profit Taker.

DR can't be exploited like this because immunity per si can only be obtained after a chain of CC's and the immunity can't be refreshed at all while the DR buff is up. You still suffer 100% of the effect in the first CC, what triggers DR; than 75% of the effect; than 50%; than 25%; after this all, immunity is given only to CC's and the timer can't be refreshed (the immunity need to resume first, than the first CC again have 100% of the effect). Now, where is the exploitable bit that makes Trinity not a liability in the fight and DR such a god sent exploit?

If you do this right now without DR you'll have the same results. Preferable without Trinity and of course you will ignore adds and focus on the boss, because this is how the fight works better. DR will make the fight less annoying, not easier at all. If you can't do this fight, DR will not save you; if you can, DR will make it less annoying, not easier or exploitable.

Now this guy understand the point - since the only real change DR makes is against unresponsive gameplay and locks (it does not remove anything, only acts on chains):

1 hour ago, TheKazz91 said:

So this was a very long to say constantly being CC locked is not fun. I agree. I don't mind getting CCd but getting CC locked for 5+ seconds that results in unresponsive gameplay isn't fun enjoyable or even particularly difficult. In high level missions this amounts to "you die now because RNG said so." It doesn't let you do anything at that point and it doesn't matter how good you play it's just math and RNG. You die because thing X started a chain stun/root/knockdown and you don't have enough DR to just deal with that. Bad gameplay

 

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

So an innate stacking status immunity buff that last for 5 seconds. You can extend it to 10 seconds or even 20, still going to resume the same fight regardless. World of Warcraft CC DR is about eight seconds and that is not even long enough. Though that's only for those receiving the debuff. Those casting it seems to believe it's too long.

[Kwikwilyaqa]

On 2019-09-10 at 1:32 AM, (PS4)jaggerwanderer said:

So an innate stacking status immunity buff that last for 5 seconds. You can extend it to 10 seconds or even 20, still going to resume the same fight regardless. World of Warcraft CC DR is about eight seconds and that is not even long enough. Though that's only for those receiving the debuff. Those casting it seems to believe it's too long.

Yeah, is this underpowered and change almost nothing in the core of CC's (and practically nothing in overall gameplay), but for "dirty" fights (again, Profit have inmensurable valor as example of how crowded fights when 50% of the enemies have CC abilities) is a invaluable QoL change. Hell, even 20secs of immunity after five consecutive CC's looks ok - because the value of less annoyance, at least for me, is a great improvement.

And also, this is most impactful in SP sessions, since you are the only focus of every CC source.

[(PSN)GNBlood]

Do i get diminishing return on heavy attack while equiping Condition overload and killing blow? My build is: Condition overload + killing blow + primed smite + grineer and primed reach + blood rush + Weeping wounds + reflix coil + amalgam organ shatter 

Please tell Me if i have any diminishing return on my build

Thank you! 

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

3 hours ago, (PSN)GNBlood said:

Do i get diminishing return on heavy attack while equiping Condition overload and killing blow? My build is: Condition overload + killing blow + primed smite + grineer and primed reach + blood rush + Weeping wounds + reflix coil + amalgam organ shatter 

Please tell Me if i have any diminishing return on my build

Thank you! 

you necro'ed a post unrelated to what you asked.....???