What exactly am I supposed to expect with upcoming content, DE?

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

The intention of this isn't to complain, but rather ask. Edit: I am coming from a Freindly perspective toward DE. So try not to take offense as its not the goal.

Based on what i know so far, railjack stuff will be just a few missions at launch? Will there be any change of scenery or will I simply be returning to a static location every time until mission variety is or is not released? Should I expect something big or just a couple new missions with a ship? I don't want to get overhyped and then let down if I can help it (No offense).

And then there's the New War. The main story quests are fairly predictable, so have no questions there. What I'm wondering about is this new sentient gameplay. Is it really for more veteran players or is that just DE saying things they don't mean as they sometimes do. Is there actually a chance in hell that it even comes out without delays into or even beyond january on pc even? Should I expect it all to get split up into several smaller releases?

And lastly, a personal opinion of mine: DE should slow down with weapons and warframes, leave all skins to tennogen, and focus on bigger stuffs so that they can pump out meaningful content faster.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by (XB1)Architect Prime

[GinKenshin]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

And lastly, a personal opinion of mine: DE should slow down with weapons and warframes, leave all skins to tennogen, and focus on bigger stuffs so that they can pump out meaningful content faster.

different teams do different things

[GinKenshin]

1 minute ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

That's the oldest DE white knight excuses on the books. Different teams do different things, yes, but people can be moved from one team to another or new people can be hired.

And that’s a classic black ghoul response? 

1- there’s no guarantee Bob the art dude knows how to program or design an ability kit for a frame 

2- hiring people ain’t that easy, you can’t just pick any rando from college or an old/new studio 

[(PSN)dangerhunter4587]

 

2 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

That's the oldest DE white knight excuses on the books. Different teams do different things, yes, but people can be moved from one team to another or new people can be hired.

I'm sorry, but that's not how it works, at all. You can't actually expect that to work out well, an artist isn't gonna know how to code, a coder isn't gonna know how to make concept art. While they may have some basic understanding it's probably no where near enough to pump out what DE does. Another thing, hiring people isn't exactly "easy", for one thing people have to actually apply for the job, and I have no clue how it is over there in London, but I'm not sure if coding is a good job to get. Even if people do apply, they have to actually be qualified, you can't just slap some random coder you found on the streets who just got out of school and expect to get the same result as someone who's been doing it for years.

[Uhkretor]

20 hours ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

The intention of this isn't to complain, but rather ask.

Based on what i know so far, railjack stuff will be just a few missions at launch? Will there be any change of scenery or will I simply be returning to a static location every time until mission variety is or is not released? Should I expect something big or just a couple new missions with a ship? I don't want to get overhyped and then let down if I can help it (No offense).

And then there's the New War. The main story quests are fairly predictable, so have no questions there. What I'm wondering about is this new sentient gameplay. Is it really for more veteran players or is that just DE saying things they don't mean as they sometimes do. Is there actually a chance in hell that it even comes out without delays into or even beyond january on pc even? Should I expect it all to get split up into several smaller releases?

And lastly, a personal opinion of mine: DE should slow down with weapons and warframes, leave all skins to tennogen, and focus on bigger stuffs so that they can pump out meaningful content faster.

So, basically you want to know what's coming for sure, right?

 

... More stuff. Pretty self-explanatory.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Uhkretor

[Vox_Preliator]

16 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

That's the oldest DE white knight excuses on the books.

Calling it that doesn't make it not true.

For that matter, there have been a bunch of actual books and research about how "just make the team bigger" just plain and simple does not work, period.  Even if we assume they can magically zap a new guy's brain full of all the knowledge, training, and familiarity that they would need to operate at 100% ability, larger teams are likely to operate worse than smaller teams, there is so much on the internet about finding the "optimal" team size.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Vox_Preliator

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 hour ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Calling it that doesn't make it not true.

For that matter, there have been a bunch of actual books and research about how "just make the team bigger" just plain and simple does not work, period.  Even if we assume they can magically zap a new guy's brain full of all the knowledge, training, and familiarity that they would need to operate at 100% ability, larger teams are likely to operate worse than smaller teams, there is so much on the internet about finding the "optimal" team size.

A large department can be still divided into multiple smaller teams. Hiring more people just to do the same thing as everyone else obviously doesn't make any sense, but instead multiple smaller groups could do their work more efficient, no matter if its an art or a design team. Steve himself admitted like 2 years ago that the content updates have been more scarce than he would like them to be, and since then the situation hasn't really improved in the slightest.

Currently the art department is over 3 times the size of the design department https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Development_Team

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

DE balances almost entirely on warframe, so I get why they might be wary to hire.

[Aldain]

I guess Empyrean and...uh...-dial-up tone-

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

They aren’t going to stop putting out smaller content. That’s how the game dies.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

9 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

And that’s a classic black ghoul response? 

1- there’s no guarantee Bob the art dude knows how to program or design an ability kit for a frame 

2- hiring people ain’t that easy, you can’t just pick any rando from college or an old/new studio 

They’ve moved members of the team around to finish projects while I agree that the original comment could’ve been less harsh but it’s very evident he’s talking about teams that can work with each other bro

 

2. Agreed but des staff is already massive enough they have more then enough manpower to do things way better then they do it now

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Agreed but des staff is already massive enough they have more then enough manpower to do things way better then they do it now

So what game/software development companies have you worked for?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

29 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

So what game/software development companies have you worked for?

None at all wbu? That has nothing to do with the 310 employees at de and the poor time management 

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

Well, one thing I can assure you is that there will be more floofs.

[TheKazz91]

18 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

That's the oldest DE white knight excuses on the books. Different teams do different things, yes, but people can be moved from one team to another or new people can be hired.

1. Yes people can be moved around but that doesn't mean you'll get the same results faster. Case and point look at all the frame reworks Pablo has done. So with that in mind who would you rather be working on actually coding and designing NEW warframes? Pablo or some guy or gal they randomly picked off the art and animation team who may not even play the game?

2. Bigger isn't always better. Larger teams have more waste and less consistency. Not to mention that on average for every 5-6 people you hire to actually do work you're hiring at least 1 person to just manage what work is being done by those 5-6 people and co-ordinate that with other teams. Then you end up in a domino effect where you then need about 1 PM manager for every 6-9 PMs you have. It comes down to how many people can you realistically get in a meeting room and actually get anything meaningful done in a way that isn't just wasting 2 hours for most of the people in that meeting which tends to be pretty low in most cases. Basically hiring more people has more business management issues that are entirely unrelated to game design and are just part of operating a large business regardless of what that business actually does. 

19 hours ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Should I expect something big or just a couple new missions with a ship?

What I'm wondering about is this new sentient gameplay. Is it really for more veteran players or is that just DE saying things they don't mean as they sometimes do

Should I expect it all to get split up into several smaller releases?

DE should slow down with weapons and warframes, leave all skins to tennogen, and focus on bigger stuffs so that they can pump out meaningful content faster.

 

 

 1. If I had to bet I'd say Railjack is going to be in the mid-range of scale. I wouldn't expect the total mission count to exceed 6 or 7 and it'll probably only have maybe 2 mission types 3 if we are real lucky. There will be a whole new progression system to work toward. So I would wager it wont be "big" in terms of how much more there is to actually do but it'll will likely take more than a few hours to get through all of it and get to the end of that new progression track. 

2. So this really gets down to one of the core issues of warframe which I am not sure can be fixed by new content. That is power scale between average players and "veteran" players let alone new players to veterans. To the majority of players anyone that could typically be called a veteran player may as well be a literal god by comparison. If you've ever been 3 hours deep in a T-4 void survival mission its HIGHLY unlikely that DE will ever release any content that will ever challenge you. Because you are a fringe case at that point and if they make something that is challenging for those players it is mathematically impossible for the vast majority of players. like you might have missions where battalysts are super common which are really hard for most players to deal with but if you are spending 3 hours in void survival mission battalysts are basically nothing to you. 

3. Yes

4. See my response to Wyrmius_Prime above. 

[Wyrmius_Prime]

14 minutes ago, TheKazz91 said:

2. Bigger isn't always better. Larger teams have more waste and less consistency. Not to mention that on average for every 5-6 people you hire to actually do work you're hiring at least 1 person to just manage what work is being done by those 5-6 people and co-ordinate that with other teams. Then you end up in a domino effect where you then need about 1 PM manager for every 6-9 PMs you have. It comes down to how many people can you realistically get in a meeting room and actually get anything meaningful done in a way that isn't just wasting 2 hours for most of the people in that meeting which tends to be pretty low in most cases. Basically hiring more people has more business management issues that are entirely unrelated to game design and are just part of operating a large business regardless of what that business actually does. 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Development_Team

I already replied to a similar post on this thread, but I would like to again point out that the design department in Warframe has less than 10 people in it and the art department has over 30. What are the art people even working on if there is no content to make the art for? I know that a large team of people isn't an efficient way of working, and exactly why departments are cut into smaller teams.

The fact that there isn't even enough people for 2 teams in the entirety of the design department is worrying. The same people doing their job the same way as they have for multiple years already is the reason why no new content ever feels refreshing; new gamemodes feel the same, Orb Vallis is the same as PoE but with snow, all the boss fights in this game are a breeze, the only niche new enemies have is to strip warframe and operator abilities... All we get is 1-3 weapons once a month with an armor set along with them.

If new ideas aren't brought in with new people then there's truly no future for refreshing, unique and fun gameplay.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Wyrmius_Prime

[Chicken-Biryani]

Same old song, same old dance. The game is good as it is. Play for a few days, take a break, come back and repeat.🙂

Edited September 7, 2019 by --C--Nehra

[Cubewano]

Something ambitious but short lasting for sure. 

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They aren’t going to stop putting out smaller content. That’s how the game dies.

Yes, you are correct. That has been how the game dies for years. But the situation is becoming different as time goes on. There are plenty of warframes and weapons now. In fact, it's so much so that many people don't view frames as meaningful content anymore. There's allot of people who would tell you that the current dip in content runs right through gaus's release. So I suspect that there may be a time when DE has to adapt their formula. Failing to do so might in-fact be how the game really dies... But that's just me. Not really looking for a debate on that matter. 

[Fire2box]

3 hours ago, peterc3 said:

So what game/software development companies have you worked for?

"I haven't ever flown a helicopter, if I saw one in the tree I could still be like you messed up"... "When something is fundamentally wrong you can just tell"-  steve hofstetter

[Fire2box]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Yes, you are correct. That has been how the game dies for years. But the situation is becoming different as time goes on. There are plenty of warframes and weapons now. In fact, it's so much so that many people don't view frames as meaningful content anymore. There's allot of people who would tell you that the current dip in content runs right through gaus's release. So I suspect that there may be a time when DE has to adapt their formula. Failing to do so might in-fact be how the game really dies... But that's just me. Not really looking for a debate on that matter. 

They'll need to push out new frames or else in a few years they'll run out of things to prime access which give seemingly great value to players who buy it. So I have zero issues with them releasing new frames/primes every 3-4 months.

the issue is there's hardly meaningful content between that. Dog Days was a fun even, until you realized you'll need to do it dozens if not hundreds of times if you "wanted it all" which is what Warframe is based upon. 

[Fire2box]

1 hour ago, --C--Nehra said:

Same old song, same old dance. The game is good as it is. Play for a few days, take a break, come back and repeat.🙂

Same old song and dance. If this is the attuide it takes for certain people to not just enjoy Warframe but simply play it. I beg them to take that same attitude out to the world. 

"Nah boss, I just don't feel like coming into work today" 

"Nah [Insert child's name here]. I just don't feel like being a parent today" 

"Nah officer, I just didn't feel like using the brakes today" 

[TheCr1msonFckr]

Nothing. You can expect nothing. This game is not here to please your desires. Stop being egoistical and seek help

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Oh look, another vet that's played too long and won't be satisfied with whatever comes out.

 

So your friend needs new maps and new playstyles and new everything, huh?

[(XBOX)COA Altair]

Love how the thread derailed within the first page about how DE is managed and such.  Like the guy comparing design department size to art department.  Do you even know how a game is made?  It isn't just coding.  There are assets used in game that the art department creates, they aren't just making deluxe warframe skins they are building empyrean and the new war from the ground up.  That isn't just a handful of people job, that requires a lot of people.  

We KNOW what's coming up so I really don't understand the question.  If you've played over 200 hours and don't know that warframe is a loot based shooter that you have to grind for hundreds to thousands of hours to complete I don't know what to tell you.