Gender skins

[HugintheCrow]

14 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Btw. this is already a thing, Nezha deluxe exists.

[Methanoid]

14 hours ago, CandyManCriminal said:

this was originally the plan i believe, you can find old Warframe media depicting a male and female Excalibur
i think it was axed because it doubles the modeling requirements for all frames

a lot of people have posted in favor of doing it, but unfortunately  i think DE has pretty much solidified that its not gunna happen


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh_1FveRn_8
heres a video with male and female Excal

nyx is pretty much the female excal.

[Cubewano]

35 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

-snip-

why not?

[-VS-Zany]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb Cubewano:

why not?

1 Frame.
1 Character.
1 Gender. (out of 2)

It would break the immersion, the lore, everything.

[Cubewano]

5 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

1 Frame.
1 Character.
1 Gender. (out of 2)

It would break the immersion, the lore, everything.

So you disagree with deluxes and exchangable idle animations? Customization in general even since it prompts a lack of a distinct character outside your influence? (i've also yet to have someone actually explain how this would break lore, not that it matters in the context of cosmetics to begin with)

Edited September 7, 2019 by Cubewano

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, VentiGlondi said:

Deluxe skins are completely new models, and they're not far too much work apparently

Imagine them then having to make the opposite gender version of that Deluxe skin, then the normal skin, then all the tennogen skins. Now do that for all 40+ frames. It’s far too much work for what basically comes down to a toggle function, and unlike a Deluxe skin, they can’t make money off it.

[-VS-Zany]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Cubewano:

So you disagree with deluxes and exchangable idle animations? Customization in general even since it prompts a lack of a distinct character outside your influence? (i've also yet to have someone actually explain how this would break lore, not that it matters in the context of cosmetics to begin with)

Idle Animations, Cosmetics and so on have nothing to do with the character behind a certain Warframe imo.

Do you stand everyday the same way when you idle around?

Cosmetics: Do you dress every day like every day?

Deluxe Skins: It is theorized, that Deluxe skins are displaying the core and base form from a Warframe. So the very beginning. Anyhow: just the look, like clothes or costumes.

Gender: Defined by nature, not changable when you want it to be changed. See spoiler for more information.

Lore Breaking:

Spoiler

It is theorized, that Warframes are nothing more like Orokin infected with the "Virus". Like Umbra. And since the "base" is a human, every warframe has a gender. I mean look at Saryn and Rhino ( as an example).

 

[Cubewano]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Imagine them then having to make the opposite gender version of that Deluxe skin, then the normal skin, then all the tennogen skins. Now do that for all 40+ frames. It’s far too much work for what basically comes down to a toggle function, and unlike a Deluxe skin, they can’t make money off it.

I think the entire premise is that they'd work exactly like deluxe skins, and are a singular skin, not a swap of every cosmetic they have access too, because as you've noted that would certainly be ridiculous. Just a swap for their default design is fully achievable however. They also can absolutely monetize it if they so like, deluxes have more than proven people are willing to pay for just a remodel, and if they did a swap I liked more than the other options available I'd certainly consider paying for it. 

[HugintheCrow]

2 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

Gender: Defined by nature, not changable when you want it to be changed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

And you're misusing the word gender (like everyone in this thread, but whatever😞

1 hour ago, HugintheCrow said:

You mean sex, not gender. Sex can be female or male (or in-between, also known as hermaphrodite), gender can be one of many variations.

In other words, sex is physical, gender is psychological. Skins don't change brains, so what you're asking is different sex skins.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I think the entire premise is that they'd work exactly like deluxe skins, and are a singular skin, not a swap of every cosmetic they have access too, because as you've noted that would certainly be ridiculous. Just a swap for their default design is fully achievable however. They also can absolutely monetize it if they so like, deluxes have more than proven people are willing to pay for just a remodel, and if they did a swap I liked more than the other options available I'd certainly consider paying for it. 

So an opposite gender version of only the default skin. Sounds like an absolute waste of time.

Gender swapping is never going to happen. Stop trying to argue for it.

[-VS-Zany]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb HugintheCrow:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

And you're misusing the word gender (like everyone in this thread, but whatever😞

Good that you said that.
Cause Transsexuall and Transgender People have a freewill. Do Warframes have a free will? No. Not anymore.
And yes I mean gender and not sex.
To avoid story spoiler:
 

Spoiler

Since a Warframe is based on a Human. That Human BEFORE that transformation had a gender indentiy. So we can cleary agree that Saryn looks female, and Rhino male. Cause they look like one. Why do i say this? Well hope in the Ingame-World future you can dress like you want. So saryn wanted to be displayed as a female, and Rhino as a male. So their gender indendity is clearly stated. (We assume that our culture can be projected on theirs. Maybe it is totaly diffrent and they have other views in this topic)

So considering that Warframes have no free will, and we are only changing the outfits  FOR them (since we - as a operator - do it).
When you now want to change the gender AFTER the transformation you clearly force something on the Warframe aka basic character. (Immersionly talking). You transform his base, its beeing, its nature and its idenity. So a gender-Change or sex-change is against the lore, immersion, base mechanic, and WAY to much work.
 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by -VS-Zany

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

Idle Animations, Cosmetics and so on have nothing to do with the character behind a certain Warframe imo.

Do you stand everyday the same way when you idle around?

Cosmetics: Do you dress every day like every day?

Deluxe Skins: It is theorized, that Deluxe skins are displaying the core and base form from a Warframe. So the very beginning. Anyhow: just the look, like clothes or costumes.

Gender: Defined by nature, not changable when you want it to be changed. See spoiler for more information.

Lore Breaking:

  Reveal hidden contents

It is theorized, that Warframes are nothing more like Orokin infected with the "Virus". Like Umbra. And since the "base" is a human, every warframe has a gender. I mean look at Saryn and Rhino ( as an example).

 

So if how you act and how you look doesn't define your character...then what is the conflict? Is your concept of character just male and female? 

And not really on the deluxe bit, they have never been confirmed to be canon, have no explicit lore or consistent design pattern, the only to be remotely grounded in a suggested canon lore is valkyr germesi and that seemed to fall through with the prime. Everything else is just nonsensical pretty things, I can't imagine how you'd explain all of tennogen within canon without a great deal of cosmetic whimsy allowed. 

As for gender being defined by nature, probably sure to some extent, I'm no psychologist, but what I think you're talking about is sex (biological) which I'm not sure is even a genuinely applicable term to frames given their development process. They're starkly human at the end of the road, they're just shaped vaguely like them, and given the diverse range of designs frames have it seems fairly evident they certainly could be changed when one wants. Deluxes are an example of that as well since they use new models for their designs, changing the default physical structure of the frame they are based off of. 

Lore bit empty? 

[Cubewano]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So an opposite gender version of only the default skin. Sounds like an absolute waste of time.

Gender swapping is never going to happen. Stop trying to argue for it.

To you perhaps, but people have different interests so maybe not to others. Not every cosmetic is going to work for everyone. 

And that isn't for you to say. 

[-VS-Zany]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Cubewano:

So if how you act and how you look doesn't define your character...then what is the conflict? Is your concept of character just male and female? 

And not really on the deluxe bit, they have never been confirmed to be canon, have no explicit lore or consistent design pattern, the only to be remotely grounded in a suggested canon lore is valkyr germesi and that seemed to fall through with the prime. Everything else is just nonsensical pretty things, I can't imagine how you'd explain all of tennogen within canon without a great deal of cosmetic whimsy allowed. 

As for gender being defined by nature, probably sure to some extent, I'm no psychologist, but what I think you're talking about is sex (biological) which I'm not sure is even a genuinely applicable term to frames given their development process. They're starkly human at the end of the road, they're just shaped vaguely like them, and given the diverse range of designs frames have it seems fairly evident they certainly could be changed when one wants. Deluxes are an example of that as well since they use new models for their designs, changing the default physical structure of the frame they are based off of. 

Lore bit empty? 

The spoiler is emtpy? oof. I have the dark-theme and never really used it so i guess the font colour is messing it up sorry!

As i said the "deluxe" part is just a theorie.

[HugintheCrow]

7 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

Good that you said that.
Cause Transsexuall and Transgender People have a freewill. Do Warframes have a free will? No. Not anymore.
And yes I mean gender and not sex.
To avoid story spoiler:
 

  Hide contents

Since a Warframe is based on a Human. That Human BEFORE that transformation had a gender indentiy. So we can cleary agree that Saryn looks female, and Rhino male. Cause they look like one. Why do i say this? Well hope in the Ingame-World future you can dress like you want. So saryn wanted to be displayed as a female, and Rhino as a male. So their gender indendity is clearly stated. (We assume that our culture can be projected on theirs. Maybe it is totaly diffrent and they have other views in this topic)

So considering that Warframes have no free will, and we are only changing the outfits  FOR them (since we - as a operator - do it).
When you now want to change the gender AFTER the transformation you clearly force something on the Warframe aka basic character. (Immersionly talking). You transform his base, its beeing, its nature and its idenity. So a gender-Change or sex-change is against the lore, immersion, base mechanic, and WAY to much work.
 

 

Ok, this is an argument I can get behind. Logical.

[Katinka]

32 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Imagine them then having to make the opposite gender version of that Deluxe skin, then the normal skin, then all the tennogen skins. Now do that for all 40+ frames. It’s far too much work for what basically comes down to a toggle function, and unlike a Deluxe skin, they can’t make money off it.

Imagine that no one has ever suggested they'd need to redo every skin and not just the default one.  The only people who say they'd need to are those who oppose the idea.  It's a strawman argument.

31 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

Idle Animations, Cosmetics and so on have nothing to do with the character behind a certain Warframe imo.

Do you stand everyday the same way when you idle around?

Idle animations have a lot to do with character.  The animation team spends a great deal of time making new animation sets for each new warframe to match their character.

Have you ever seen someone do an impression of someone else?  Ever noticed how body language plays into a good impression?  The way you stand is absolutely a part of someones character.

15 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

Spoiler

Since a Warframe is based on a Human. That Human BEFORE that transformation had a gender indentiy. So we can cleary agree that Saryn looks female, and Rhino male. Cause they look like one. Why do i say this? Well hope in the Ingame-World future you can dress like you want. So saryn wanted to be displayed as a female, and Rhino as a male. So their gender indendity is clearly stated. (We assume that our culture can be projected on theirs. Maybe it is totaly diffrent and they have other views in this topic)

So considering that Warframes have no free will, and we are only changing the outfits  FOR them (since we - as a operator - do it).
When you now want to change the gender AFTER the transformation you clearly force something on the Warframe aka basic character. (Immersionly talking). You transform his base, his beeing, his nature and his idenity. So a gender-Change or sex-change is against the lore, immersion, base mechanic, and WAY to much work.

 

Spoiler

But we aren't changing the original person, we're changing something we built in our foundry based off a blueprint of a copy of the original.  It's no more that person than their grandchild would be.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by Katinka

[(PSN)Kamil-the-KamiKa]

to answer op, no. this thread is brought up time and time again. Keep your gender hungry fashion out of a game that is full of space ninja homicidial machines.

To answer the guy below: There are only 2 sexes male or female, there are also only 2 genders male or female. anything else is a mental illness

1 hour ago, HugintheCrow said:

You mean sex, not gender. Sex can be female or male (or in-between, also known as hermaphrodite), gender can be one of many variations.

In other words, sex is physical, gender is psychological. Skins don't change brains, so what you're asking is different sex skins.

Edited September 7, 2019 by (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa

[HugintheCrow]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

no. there is boy or girl,(man or woman) anything else is delusional

You are incorrect, to the point of modern sciences disagreeing with you, but you are welcome to continue living in your limited worldview.

Just don't force it on others.

[-VS-Zany]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Katinka:

Idle animations have a lot to do with character.  The animation team spends a great deal of time making new animation sets for each newwarframe to match their character.

Have you ever seen someone do an impression of someone else?  Ever noticed how body language play sinto a good impression?  the way you stand is absolutely a part of someones character.

Okay let me put it in a diffrent way:
Idle Animations are like cosmetics. The warframe in itself has no free will, so we dictate the idle animation. My example was bad in this case, Sorry.


 

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Katinka:

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

But we aren't changing the original person, we're changing something we built in our foundry based off a blueprint of a copy of the original.  It's no more that person than their grandchild would be.

And we honor the original with not changing anything the person sacrificed for us. We honor them with accepting their idenity. Anything else would be disrespectful.
Cosmetics, idle animations, deluxe skins are like costumes. Nothing more. But the base, the person we honor, is still the same.

[Cubewano]

Just now, -VS-Zany said:

The spoiler is emtpy? oof. I have the dark-theme and never really used it so i guess the font colour is messing it up sorry!

Oof yeah appears so, the text is blending in with the light theme, can see it if I highlight. 

In that regard: 

1 minute ago, -VS-Zany said:

Spoiler

It is theorized, that Warframes are nothing more like Orokin infected with the "Virus". Like Umbra. And since the "base" is a human, every warframe has a gender. I mean look at Saryn and Rhino ( as an example).

 

Spoiler

I believe it is beyond theory that frames are made from a base human that was infected with a strain of the infestation and then harvested at a later date to create a frame, that is more or less confirmed within the sacrifice. that said, just because they were human at one point doesn't really make a permanent standard of being, there is little reason to believe what is left of those human hosts post infestation is representative their original biology, we've heard and seen the kind of biological changes the infestation prompts, warping and disconfiguring its hosts into something very other, and there's not much reason to assume otherwise for frames. This is further augmented by the fact that the orokin very clearly mess with their form even further once the infestation process has reached an acceptable point, since there is no conceivable way to believe the designs our frames have at their endpoints (extremely themed humanoid designs based on human history) were crafted by the infestation. So as far as respect to having a limited physical range goes, frames are about as far from that limitation as one can get, they go through extreme physical alterations in-between being a human and becoming a frame, to ranges well beyond just becoming more feminine or masculine. 

 

11 minutes ago, -VS-Zany said:

As i said the "deluxe" part is just a theorie.

Yeah, just pointing out it doesn't really have much to stand on, and less so once we go into like tennogen territory where they become literally just fan creations. Things like Vauban deluxe, and Excal proto also really press the notion of canon with how out there their designs are. Excal proto is explicitly a throwback to a character that DE has even explicitly stated is not canon within the Warframe universe. 

[(PSN)Kamil-the-KamiKa]

1 minute ago, HugintheCrow said:

You are incorrect, to the point of modern sciences disagreeing with you, but you are welcome to continue living in your limited worldview.

Just don't force it on others.

Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there's a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. It's sometimes known as gender incongruence.

'condition' therefore not normal nor has ANYTHING to do with a video game. keep it out

[HugintheCrow]

Just now, (PS4)Kamil-the-KamiKa said:

Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there's a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. It's sometimes known as gender incongruence.

'condition' therefore not normal nor has ANYTHING to do with a video game. keep it out

Yes, thanks for proving me right.

Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort (...).

The condition here being the discomfort, not the wrongly assigned gender.

[Raqiya]

Alright, shut this thread down.

[-VS-Zany]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Cubewano:

Spoiler

_snip_

 

Spoiler

But this does not change the fact, that the very base is still the same. Look at Umbra. Male identiy. Male Frame. Or the prime trailer. "He" "She". Clear and direct clues who that person is or was.

 

[-VS-Zany]

vor 1 Minute schrieb HugintheCrow:

The condition here being the discomfort, not the wrongly assigned gender.

Just to underline my argument - I saw you already agreed in this term before - we, as a player. As a operating person. Cannot, under NO giving circumstance, declare that the warframe is in "discomfort". When you are in a discomfort it is just a real life. Accept it. Done. Don't force something you think is the "correct one" or "good looking" state on something/someone.

Gender skins are wrong. In any way, regardless if you think there are 2 Gender, 26 Gender, or 230548 Genders.