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(PS4)joey_a21

Gender skins

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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

That is lore outside the game which may or may not be cannon. Show me a single instance of in-game lore in which frame's feats, descriptions, or codex entries imply more than one of it and I'll concede your point.

In Hidden Messages, after building the Mirage Neuroptics, Ordis says "Now you have the helmet for a whole new class of Warframe.", not "...a whole new Warframe" which would be sufficient if there was only ever one Warframe of a given name, rather "...class of Warframe" establishing that Warframes are in some way categorised into classes.  It could still be argued that a singular Mirage is the first Warframe we get of whatever unnamed class she fits in (a class that includes a trickster like her but not Loki?) but I think it more likely that "Mirage" is the class.

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Otherwise, how would you go about creating multiple Revenants? Would they all have to wait for a Gara to kill a specific Sentient, then guard its corpse for a set amount of time until it starts trying to use the "Warden" frame to revive itself, then the Warden seals itself with it so we can get another Revenant? That's convoluted beyond absurdity.

Or we could reverse engineer a method for our foundry to copy the resultant warframe without having to go through those exact steps, streamlining the process to make a copy rather than rebuilding the original.  This would fit with how we get Chroma in the New Strange (scanning without destroying him).

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

What we know for certain, is that by taking them as nothing more than visual accessories, DE are still making distinctively female (Wisp) animations instead of neutral animations (Zephyr), which means making the animations appropriate for a male/female variant is not a concern at all regardless of the core reason (Which I personally believe is due to them considering each frame as unique).

They are also still allowing use to pay to unlock idle animations for use on any warframe, so yeah, they likely did not concern themselves about whether or not Wisp's animations would fit a male Wisp in the same way that they did not concern themselves about whether or not it would fit any other male warframe current or future.  I can have a dainty floating Rhino with the "distinctively female (Wisp) animations" if I want.

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On 2019-09-11 at 4:19 PM, Cubewano said:

No deluxes or tennogen are crafted, they are exclusively purchased, helms and all. And the deluxes skins are an entire physical mold change, no different to what a alternate sex skin would necessitate. 

It is the infestation, we know that much, its just so far as we know (or assume really) an alternate strain that leaves their hosts pacified/hollowed out rather than linked to the rest of the infestation, with the difference being so meek that even the infestation seem to still confuse us as their own, and the physical exchange being so extreme that even when cut into the human physiology was all but gone. So under those context there is again nothing that suggests your theory frames are custom built by their infested strain to appear how they do, not remotely, then this copy theory further aligns with that notion since having multiples of the same design come from different biological products suggests a clear disconnect between the two, the infestation process and the end physique. 

You're notion that the builds are unique to the hosts suggests it must be individualistic by nature, taking on the unique genetic code of that host and mirroring it as it creates what you believe is a human physique for the frame. But as noted above, there are numerous holes in that kind of theory. 

 But if your theory is now swapping to they can design the strain to make a physique (which i'm not agreeing is canon and there is nothing to suggest it) and that's all the trouble it takes, why again is an alternate sex template not an option if it has nothing to do with the host? If anything this just shows the range of options frames truly can have as their design is fully malleable and based on the creators want near entirely. 

Yeah and that doesnt matter. That is simply an out of game mechanic in order for DE to get money. See it as if Baro found them in the Void. And as I said earlier, the different look on the physical makeup of deluxes can simply be because they are fancy frames dedicated to a select few as tokens of honor or something. A tenno that has really done something extraordinary and gotten a more personalized frame in return.

And you seem to think the infestation is simply organic. It is a bio-nanite compound that can be told by someone, or some thing what to do. Just look at the infested, they are all taking specific shapes of an original mutation. In the case of orokin made frames, the orokin told the mass what shape to take in some way or another i.e enginnering the frames to their liking. The reason why the physiology is gone is because it has been consumed and assimilated by the strain. The reason why some are male and other female looking is because the first subject was one of those.

And they arent unique. The very first hosts were likely handpicked to suit a specific type of frame. After those frames went insane they moved over to the hostless core where they instead just used the strain to make up the "body" based on the blueprint of the previous generation. Hence why all Mag look the same because that is the specifications of their blueprints in order to fit in all the tech that is needed based on the first hosted model. The differences seen are in the chassis and other outer details. The frame designs have never been about wild growth and a "lets see what happens" approach. Everything has been handcrafted and engineered based on specifications.

The reason a genderbender is odd and unfitting is because we are talking about warmachines. Sure the Orokin may have made them look fancy, but going back to basics and reworking the core for a slightly different look doesnt really seem appropriate in war times. I think it was the least thing on their minds at the time. And we as tenno cannot do it because we arent bio-engineers. We can follow schematics and swap some external helmets or armor plates, that is it.

Now dont get me wrong. I could see something similar to deluxe costumes with a genderbender twist. Something very specific that you can imagine having been a reward for say an extraordinary female tenno piloting an Excal. I simply just dont see the "baseline" frames fitting for such a thing.

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Meanwhile this crap is still going on.

What is there even to say? 

You want gender skins so bad then go to feedback and post about it. ffs

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26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The reason why the physiology is gone is because it has been consumed and assimilated by the strain. The reason why some are male and other female looking is because the first subject was one of those.

If the physiology has been consumed why do secondary sexual characteristics from the first subject remain?  Picking and choosing what physiology remains and what doesn't to fit your argument is special pleading.

29 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The very first hosts were likely handpicked to suit a specific type of frame.

Why is that likely?  Do you have a reference to anything that suggests that being likely or is this a baseless assertion?

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Hence why all Mag look the same because that is the specifications of their blueprints in order to fit in all the tech that is needed based on the first hosted model. The differences seen are in the chassis and other outer details.

So all Mag look the same, except for the differences we can see outside?  Not sure why "all the tech that is needed" has any connection to secondary sexual characteristics.

34 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Now dont get me wrong. I could see something similar to deluxe costumes with a genderbender twist.

So, basically what every pro commenter has been saying they'd like to see?

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1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah and that doesnt matter. That is simply an out of game mechanic in order for DE to get money. See it as if Baro found them in the Void. And as I said earlier, the different look on the physical makeup of deluxes can simply be because they are fancy frames dedicated to a select few as tokens of honor or something. A tenno that has really done something extraordinary and gotten a more personalized frame in return.

And you seem to think the infestation is simply organic. It is a bio-nanite compound that can be told by someone, or some thing what to do. Just look at the infested, they are all taking specific shapes of an original mutation. In the case of orokin made frames, the orokin told the mass what shape to take in some way or another i.e enginnering the frames to their liking. The reason why the physiology is gone is because it has been consumed and assimilated by the strain. The reason why some are male and other female looking is because the first subject was one of those.

And they arent unique. The very first hosts were likely handpicked to suit a specific type of frame. After those frames went insane they moved over to the hostless core where they instead just used the strain to make up the "body" based on the blueprint of the previous generation. Hence why all Mag look the same because that is the specifications of their blueprints in order to fit in all the tech that is needed based on the first hosted model. The differences seen are in the chassis and other outer details. The frame designs have never been about wild growth and a "lets see what happens" approach. Everything has been handcrafted and engineered based on specifications.

The reason a genderbender is odd and unfitting is because we are talking about warmachines. Sure the Orokin may have made them look fancy, but going back to basics and reworking the core for a slightly different look doesnt really seem appropriate in war times. I think it was the least thing on their minds at the time. And we as tenno cannot do it because we arent bio-engineers. We can follow schematics and swap some external helmets or armor plates, that is it.

Now dont get me wrong. I could see something similar to deluxe costumes with a genderbender twist. Something very specific that you can imagine having been a reward for say an extraordinary female tenno piloting an Excal. I simply just dont see the "baseline" frames fitting for such a thing.

It does matter if you are just deciding to apply different principles to other cosmetics. Either they all abide by the same set of requirements or you're enforcing a double standard and your bias is showing.

The infestation takes many shapes, all warping their host in sever ways, or attempting to. 

And how does the subject being male or female figure into your argument if the end form is completely infestation based and is clearly unlike a human at its end point? You've made it quite explicit the hosts form has no bearing on the end result, the strain does, entirely. By your argument standards that doesn't really follow. (not that any of this is more than fan theory at this point)

Okay so the human hosts were just a failed beta test that weren't necessary for the designs, further supports my earlier sentiment, but then you say its based on the first hosted model which loses me. Is or isn't the strain the controlling agent for the end product? Either the strain controlled the transformation from the get go to get the specific end result, or it didn't and the transformation was far less inhibited and the Orokin just manipulated whatever came out into what they wanted, including heavy cosmetic alterations which is hardly something they wouldn't be capable of. 

Seems acceptable for deluxes. And also don't pretend the Orokin wouldn't do something so whimsical either, you can't honestly look at designs like Limbo and Mesa and think they could make that, but wouldn't be fine with making male and female variants. We have a top hat wearing magician, and a gunslinger with a blind fold, that is so immensely unnecessary its laughable, and they even have themed movesets my god. They weren't being grave when they designed these frames or their visuals, heck the wide range of looks and themes we have in and of itself pulls that entire notion into ruin. The Orokin didn't need 30+ different war machine aesthetics in the least, and that's all their looks are, aesthetic, all frames could be one uniform bulk build in all likelihood if we're being realistic, but they weren't because that's just how the Orokin are, they are whimsy and artistic and vain and do the most nonsense things just because it'll look nice and glorify them. And you're at it again with the real time creation but still haven't explained away why this doesn't matter for tennogen and deluxes. 

Why does it have to be conditional when the Orokin were oh so whimsical with their designs from the get go? How was steampunk Vauban earned? Dark Sector Excalibur? How did they even know how to model it after a game outside Warframes universe and canon? 

 

 

 

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