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Who is currently considered the worst Warframe in the game?

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15 hours ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

I say zephyr tbh so pointless, can be replaced by literally any frame. Flying only good in vallis and the plains and that what archwings for so like... 

She almost completely invalidates enemy guns, and has a large area coverage of cc that can be charged with the damage of your weapon. Not only that, the tornadoes can be directed by your aim. Essentially, you can turn her tornadoes into mobile cc turrets that mimics the damage of whatever weapon you charge it with, or use them to easily set up shots. The shots you make on enemies while they're in the tornados take additional crit damage, too. It's very useful.

 

16 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

Ember is the strongest Damage Buff in the game (excluding Sonar because we can never include Sonar in any Damage comparison).
just not via Abilities. but for Weapons, Ember has the strongest Damage Buffing available.

This is not correct. Her damage buffs lose out to Chroma, Mirage, and Rhino with a damage riven. The ability to add damage to whatever element you want, rather than just adding copious amounts of heat damage will always make them pull ahead since her numbers aren't high enough to compensate for armor. If they allowed Accelerant to affect radiation or gas damage, there might be a case here for certain factions. With that said, I don't have her 1 augment, so I don't know how if Accelerant will apply to that heat damage before it combines with the other elements, or if it won't count at all because of combination. If it works with the augment before it combines with other elements, then you might have a case to make here.

 

On topic: The worst frame in the game... Ember. She requires two augments to be useful to her teammates, her damage falls off heavily because Heat doesn't get any bonus against armor types, the nerfs hurt the effectiveness of WoF, and her kit has basically 0 survivability attached to it on top of her being a squishy frame. there are probably niche applications where you can get a lot out of her heat damage, but I'm willing to bet that requires a setup specifically for that damage type and wouldn't be nearly as effective as it would be if it were viral, gas, or corrosive damage instead.

Volt steals her thunder (hehehe, no pun intended) as a low-effort nuke frame with tons of additional utility she can't bring. Saryn is a better elemental buffer while bringing all the map wiping glory she has in her kit to the table. There's just no reason to bring Ember unless you really like her. Heck, Frost is her cold counterpart and his kit is just so much better. Ember needs a (another?) rework along with Vauban.

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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You must run into some S#&$ty Frosts. He is a massive offensive powerhouse if played/built correctly. He works great in pretty much any type of mission thrown at him.

Don't forget that his ultimate can remove a lot of armor, CC and does tons of damage.

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15 minutes ago, Xehalin said:

On topic: The worst frame in the game... Ember. She requires two augments to be useful to her teammates, her damage falls off heavily because Heat doesn't get any bonus against armor types, the nerfs hurt the effectiveness of WoF, and her kit has basically 0 survivability attached to it on top of her being a squishy frame. there are probably niche applications where you can get a lot out of her heat damage, but I'm willing to bet that requires a setup specifically for that damage type and wouldn't be nearly as effective as it would be if it were viral, gas, or corrosive damage instead.

I think tank ember (remember?) should comeback, it was very OP at the time, with 95% of damage reduction.

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17 minutes ago, 6Sanity9x said:

I think tank ember (remember?) should comeback, it was very OP at the time, with 95% of damage reduction.

I don't, sadly. Despite how long I've been playing Warframe off and on, I lack a lot of experience when it came to earlier builds of the game. This is mainly because I stuck with a very specific loadout and didn't touch many frames or weapons. I was adamant on playing with stuff like the Paris because I loved bows, and the way puncture damage worked was too good to pass up. Heck, I remained adamant on playing with the Galatine even after they removed op charge attacks. I didn't really break out of that mindset until a few years ago. It's probably the reason why I treated Warframe like a side game. By the time I picked up Ember, I think it was right before they nerfed her WoF.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)Hooligantuan said:

I still identify as a Vauban main, and Vauban's in a bad spot.

After that, I'd say Zephyr, Frost, and Ash are pretty underwhelming.

Zephyr does have a niche in driftframe though

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I love playing Vauban

I love the concept of Vauban

But he REALLY needs a rework

Cuz his abilitys are laggy and full of S#&$

He looks cool tho

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10 hours ago, Lunarez said:

Ember need to mod her weapons to have fire damage from her buff, which will gimp her abilities to armor strip with status weapon

 

1 hour ago, Xehalin said:

This is not correct. Her damage buffs lose out to Chroma, Mirage, and Rhino with a damage riven. The ability to add damage to whatever element you want, rather than just adding copious amounts of heat damage will always make them pull ahead since her numbers aren't high enough to compensate for armor.

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

but thats on an element type that gets laughed at by all but infested. 

and why exactly would you be using pure Fire on your Weapons? you have Mod Slots on your Weapons too, to make many different Damage Types with.
yes, you infact... can put Elemental Mods on your Weapons. that the Enemy may not explicity be weak to the Damage Type doesn't change that it's a very large amount of extra Damage. 

"but it can't spam 100 Corrosive Status and that's the only way to Kill anything!!!" - there's many ways to deal Damage, and removing Armor isn't the only way. but this doesn't preclude you from being able to weaken Armor anyways, which is all you have to do in any case anyways. removing most of the Armor something has is plenty sufficient, the remaining portion doesn't matter because by the time you remove that, you could have already Killed the Enemy anyways with Damage.

not as flexible doesn't change that Ember is capable of it, despite what the Community thinks of Ember.
is that all i'd want a Warframe to do (be a Gun Platform)? certainly not. but it's something relevant that the Warframe can offer, and it's very biased and toxic to not consider relevant features.

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6 hours ago, sinnae said:

How do you mod her? As someone who has only ever used Titania for Plague Star your comment's got me super curious.

Aviator is obviously a natural fit. It’s probably a relatively similar build, you build for perpetual razor wing uptime. 

The main key difference is that after stacking your buffs for maximum attack speed from her augment, you roll to proc rolling guard. Then you get a nice chunk of time to rip through people as an invincible little moth girl with her blades.

It’s finicky, it might not be ideal, but it works. I get her through sorties like that 🙂

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12 hours ago, Methanoid said:

For me, its Atlas, he serves no real role anywhere in any gametype, I only use him when i remember he actually is a thing and feel like something different for self hardmode reasons.

Unfortunately there is some truth to this.  I equip Graxx skin to look awesome and try to punch the )$&@ outta everything with his 1, but his petrify just doesn’t synergize well enough to stack armor in a fluid way and his 4 is aggro deflection at best.

His wall is laughably awkward and even obstructs.

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11 hours ago, Sintag said:

Ember.

Vauban's being worked on, Zephyr still has niches and her Defense game is strong, Hydroid's still a decent farmer, Ash can reliably kill the Chart (but his scaling sucks), and Atlas can be good fun once he gets rolling.

 

Ember's just bad.

Ash can't scale LMFAO you don't know a thing about ash if you think he can't scale.  You can either use covert lethality dagger with his lethal teleport or have a combo multiplier with blade storm that will kill stuff into the thousands off just the bleed procs that his blade storm is guaranteed to inflict since those scale up with his combo multiplier.  Ash is a fantastic frame, anyone who says differently does not know how to mod/play him properly.  

 

Worst is ember.  Best damage buffer in game is rhino with max power strength besides banshee, you have to jump through all the hoops with ember to make her better while rhino roar meanwhile actually buffs all your teammates abilities and weapons as well as your own.  Oh and rhino doesn't just die to a few bullets as a bonus and has semi cc with stomp.  Rhino is oustanding as a frame.  It would be super nice if you could have any range on chroma so his elemental ward and vex armor could actually work for allies who aren't standing right next to him.  

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3 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

 

and why exactly would you be using pure Fire on your Weapons? you have Mod Slots on your Weapons too, to make many different Damage Types with.
yes, you infact... can put Elemental Mods on your Weapons. that the Enemy may not explicity be weak to the Damage Type doesn't change that it's a very large amount of extra Damage. 

"but it can't spam 100 Corrosive Status and that's the only way to Kill anything!!!" - there's many ways to deal Damage, and removing Armor isn't the only way. but this doesn't preclude you from being able to weaken Armor anyways, which is all you have to do in any case anyways. removing most of the Armor something has is plenty sufficient, the remaining portion doesn't matter because by the time you remove that, you could have already Killed the Enemy anyways with Damage.

not as flexible doesn't change that Ember is capable of it, despite what the Community thinks of Ember.
is that all i'd want a Warframe to do (be a Gun Platform)? certainly not. but it's something relevant that the Warframe can offer, and it's very biased and toxic to not consider relevant features.

The fact it really does only buff fire is the soul reason she's very niche for most enemies. Yeah sure, buffs fire, but what that person was getting at is there's too many other enemy types that really lower that fire damage output. I'd take a Mirage or Chroma over her any day BECAUSE they're more versatile with more enemy types. Pretty sure I'd out perform a Ember right off the bat while they still sit there giving themselves buffs. Hell, my friend was boast about it after trying a build from youtube. So I popped Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Bombards, timed him, then outperformed him with my mirage. To me, it's too much work and has no appeal.

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Worst frames are the same worst frames from the last 100 times somebody asked. Things just haven't changed at all.

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Ember, but not even for all the reasons already mentioned here. But because even before the WoF nerf she was practically useless, especially to today's standards.

Before the nerf her primary uses were afking or rushing through low level missions and providing a steady source of CC in other missions all while having no reliable survivability to speak of. One thing which most frames and weapons can still do and another which is viewed as useless now.

Ember and/or Heat status need full on reworks for Ember to ever be worth considering again for anything beyond early star chart fodder.

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Baruuk. He's a frame that doesn't really have an identity of his own, as he's too busy trying to copy everyone else, but failing. His abilities feel like they were designed by four people who never had any contact with each other, as it is simply the worst case of anti-synergy in the game. I mean your first ability is about dodging bullets, but your next two can respectively put enemies to sleep and disarm them. What is the point?

His mechanics are clunky, his Exalted weapon is terrible and he's just an inferior version of a load of different frames. Another example of "student of all, master of none" type of warframe.

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Inaros. He has big EHP you can go hours in arbitration survival without dying, but you don't even use his skills or only use the 4 at the start of the mission, skill wise is the worst frame

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On 2019-09-08 at 8:24 AM, taiiat said:

 

Ember is the strongest Damage Buff in the game (excluding Sonar because we can never include Sonar in any Damage comparison).
just not via Abilities. but for Weapons, Ember has the strongest Damage Buffing available.

Technically, yes. But here's the thing, it only buffs heat damage, without a doubt, the worst damage type in the game.

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I don't get all the hate for Atlas, I don't use his 2 often but other than that he's super tanky, has good CC and can deal a lot of damage

His 4 needs a rework though, but still better than Chroma's

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5 hours ago, FashionFrame said:

The fact it really does only buff fire is the soul reason she's very niche for most enemies. Yeah sure, buffs fire, but what that person was getting at is there's too many other enemy types that really lower that fire damage output. I'd take a Mirage or Chroma over her any day BECAUSE they're more versatile with more enemy types. Pretty sure I'd out perform a Ember right off the bat while they still sit there giving themselves buffs. Hell, my friend was boast about it after trying a build from youtube. So I popped Corrupted Heavy Gunners and Bombards, timed him, then outperformed him with my mirage. To me, it's too much work and has no appeal.

"it doesn't spam Corrosive Status so its bad" got it. what an insightful discussion that considers all of the tools in the game.

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8 hours ago, taiiat said:

and why exactly would you be using pure Fire on your Weapons? you have Mod Slots on your Weapons too, to make many different Damage Types with.
yes, you infact... can put Elemental Mods on your Weapons. that the Enemy may not explicity be weak to the Damage Type doesn't change that it's a very large amount of extra Damage. 

You don't put pure fire on your weapon, but you can't use element that has fire in its combination because the buff part itself act as an elemental mod, however, the debuff DOESN'T increase any damage from any of the combine elements.

Quote

"but it can't spam 100 Corrosive Status and that's the only way to Kill anything!!!" - there's many ways to deal Damage, and removing Armor isn't the only way. but this doesn't preclude you from being able to weaken Armor anyways, which is all you have to do in any case anyways. removing most of the Armor something has is plenty sufficient, the remaining portion doesn't matter because by the time you remove that, you could have already Killed the Enemy anyways with Damage.

I agree on the fact that you don't need 100% corrosive to kill things, But the problem is that Ember herself is too squishy for you to have any time to wait for enough corrosive proc for her to be relevant without dying or out of energy (especially when you're going 300% str build you'll run out like water in a broken tank).

Quote

not as flexible doesn't change that Ember is capable of it, despite what the Community thinks of Ember.
is that all i'd want a Warframe to do (be a Gun Platform)? certainly not. but it's something relevant that the Warframe can offer, and it's very biased and toxic to not consider relevant features.

Not as flexible means less possibility for her to be usable in most situation. Using her as a buffer is also not an easy task, due to her squishiness, energy hungry, and useless passive. Why would you use x16 damage buffers that die within 1 seconds under enemies fire when a more tanky frame with 9x damage is more than enough to kill things, easier to manage buffs, and easier to built.

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"Saryn" *not serious, just surprised she hasn't been mentioned yet*

I'd say Vauban because he seems to have the most underwhelming set of skills for the current state of the game, most of them downright boring. He just feels wrong in many situations, although he has a clear theme that many good skill ideas can be built around. I'm hoping for a decent rework, I really want an excuse to get his deluxe skin (one of the best in the game, imo).

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2 minutes ago, Lunarez said:

But the problem is that Ember herself is too squishy for you to have any time to wait for enough corrosive proc for her to be relevant without dying or out of energy (especially when you're going 300% str build you'll run out like water in a broken tank).

Using her as a buffer is also not an easy task

every Warframe doesn't need to have 95% DR in order to be capable. we have Mods too, and some of those are defensive in nature.
we have the tools thesedays to make any Warframe a semi-tank, regardless of its generic Stats.
yes, 359% Power Strength would be impractical to use on Ember. though it's even not all that practical to use on Chroma or whatever, either. but at the same time Squads of Players have been buffing each other for years too.

ok. do you have a point that Ember as a Damage Buff takes more cognitive effort to execute? if Warframes that are more than press a button and that's it are "too hard", what is there to even really talk about? on such a balance beam, it's the Warframes that have no mechanics past pressing a button that are the problem, via offering little to no interactive features and being cutscenes with legs. we'd be pretty much done if that'll be a 'major problem'.

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Just now, taiiat said:

every Warframe doesn't need to have 95% DR in order to be capable. we have Mods too, and some of those are defensive in nature.
we have the tools thesedays to make any Warframe a semi-tank, regardless of its generic Stats.
yes, 359% Power Strength would be impractical to use on Ember. though it's even not all that practical to use on Chroma or whatever, either. but at the same time Squads of Players have been buffing each other for years too.

ok. do you have a point that Ember as a Damage Buff takes more cognitive effort to execute? if Warframes that are more than press a button and that's it are "too hard", what is there to even really talk about? on such a balance beam, it's the Warframes that have no mechanics past pressing a button that are the problem, via offering little to no interactive features and being cutscenes with legs. we'd be pretty much done if that'll be a 'major problem'.

No, not every. you're using extreme case here.

I mean, a Titania with her 75% dmg reduction while Airborne still have trouble right?

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