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POLL: Kill OR Save The Lotus (Community Opinion)

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15 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Whenever I see a thread about this I'm reminded of two things.

First is how few people seem to have actually followed the nuances in the story. If it's just a shade more subtle than a brick to the back of the head, they missed it. Many people who claim to know what plot DE is going for are probably barely able to tell what direction traffic flows on the highway. 

Second is how many people choose red and black as their colour scheme. Seriously, it's frigging Edgelord Central, at rush hour with people trying to be more "dark and brooding" than anyone else. That probably explains why we get so many of these "how badly do you want to kill Lotus" threads. 

First of all the story is largely left up for interpretation. Second DE is terrible at story telling and coherent lore.

Now I think some are just tired of a character (me included) with no progression and made entirely of retcons. The Lotus is a terrible character, so better to just put it out of it's misery and move on and all you Lotus sympathizers can just get over it.  That said if you think the Lotus is good character development that needs nuances to understand lol seriously paint on the walls of my house is a better character than the Lotus.

The Lotus has been gone for 2 years. She is unnecessary, she's always been unnecessary and IMO an enemy of the Tenno. 

Edited by (XB1)SixGunLove
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Reach through Void time, and yank the original space mom from the past before her execution.  

Paradox happens, but we've done time hijinks before.  The we take helmet, put it on her head, and sit waiting as time catches up and the events that have transpired are summarily injected into her.

She pulls off the helmet then says;

"Ladies. And. Gentlemen. Listeners of all ages. I present to you. Walking amongst us. The once. And future. Bad. Ass."

Somewhere in the system some tenno weeps gently onto the sandwich she has prepared for Konzu's lunch with Saya, Onkko rambling from behind a powdered and dyed tree.  Clem adds the word glinty to his vocabulary after nailing the Clem Clem 1080 inverted, taking out the Profit Taker.  Alad V and Darvo pick up Baro and they start a band...The Infested Void Dealers.  Vay Hek gets a lozenge, finds the lost relic: Coca-cola, then he smiles, finally chilling out.  Invites Tyl Regor over and they have long discussions about Nef Anyo, prank calling locksmiths everyday to get him out of that ridiculous getup.

 

Good times...

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Condescendingly discrediting people’s work and acting like a total hipster while being extremely bitter and resentful of everything he didn’t personally create?

 

Yep, that’s HugintheCrow. 

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KILL

The Lotus was such a traitor.

You can't save a traitor.

KILL her right now.

Edited by Alpha56
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Save the Lotus, so that the Cephy Lotus can go away. Also because I believe it's the correct action to do, but only if it's because the Lotus is actually not under her own control. If she left because she wanted to leave--with no coercion involved--then why should we force her to return? In this instance, she should come back because she wants to, not because of anything else.

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I want the best story. if she lives thats great, if she dies thats great too. whichever gives us the better story and feels at the end. The player base has no idea what tells a great story. {much less what they want for endgame} ^^;

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il y a une heure, AandOE a dit :

Save the Lotus, so that the Cephy Lotus can go away. Also because I believe it's the correct action to do, but only if it's because the Lotus is actually not under her own control. If she left because she wanted to leave--with no coercion involved--then why should we force her to return? In this instance, she should come back because she wants to, not because of anything else.

The Lotus made kill us Billions of Billions of grineer and corpus (who care about infested), was a traitor and considered us as slaves, but we should save her ?

Well no.

Save the grineer and corpus instead !

Edited by Alpha56

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3 hours ago, (XB1)SixGunLove said:

First of all the story is largely left up for interpretation. Second DE is terrible at story telling and coherent lore.

Now I think some are just tired of a character (me included) with no progression and made entirely of retcons. The Lotus is a terrible character, so better to just put it out of it's misery and move on and all you Lotus sympathizers can just get over it.  That said if you think the Lotus is good character development that needs nuances to understand lol seriously paint on the walls of my house is a better character than the Lotus.

The Lotus has been gone for 2 years. She is unnecessary, she's always been unnecessary and IMO an enemy of the Tenno. 

You are really not good at being funny. 

You also seem to be trying to use "open to interpretation" to mean "I'm free to ignore the details which don't fit my narrative". 

You say that bit about the paint, like a person who has never really paid any close attention to paint.... But then again, maybe I just have that impression because you also don't seem to have paid any attention to what you have been ragging on. 

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7 hours ago, Alpha56 said:

The Lotus made kill us Billions of Billions of grineer and corpus (who care about infested), was a traitor and considered us as slaves, but we should save her ?

Well no.

Save the grineer and corpus instead !

Natah isn't a first generation Sentient. She wasn't even among the first who gained sentience and decided to eradicate the Orokin. She was created by her parents for the sole purpose of destroying the Orokin empire. And yet she deserves to die because those who created her decided to do wrong and have fed her a one sided truth her whole life? Sounds like you want to judge her for the sins of her ancestors. There's a word for that: Hereditary guilt.

That's why I've been saying the Tenno and Natah have a lot in common. Both have been turned into weapons against their enemy by their creators. Both have been lied to. Both have been brainwashed and used.

If you think Natah should die for that, the Tenno should die as well.

Edited by AuroraSonicBoom
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Speaking for myself, until we get to see if this is brainwash or Natah's actual, genuine personality, the jury's hung like a pоrn st*r. Recall the difference between TSD's final scenes, The Sacrifice's final scene (the battalysts are Hunhow's), and the Rope-fight and you'll see how and why it's impossible to determine if Natah has ever been herself.

DE love writing trauma, so there's a high likelihood that she'll live just for Steve to pull a PTSD-gutpunch plot point.

The only two things that good writing requires and will permit nothing but are 1) profoundly flawed people and 2) trauma. The more of both, the better.

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But...if we kill her...there will be more threads with more complaining....if she lives she will be tied with another story plot, so less threads...

I vote for letting Natah live.

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John Connor didn't destroy the T-800 outright he was too attached to it, he would have kept it around if Sarah would have let him. Attachment.

Who knows what they have planned. Natah is some combination of slave and free will. If there is a way to break her unsentient  body from some machinery that keeps her in some kind of matrix then it's probably moral to save her, and destroy her corrupted clone for instance. Maybe her mind is broken and the one function she could hold onto ("hold'da'door") was to save the few tenno she was able to outside of supposedly being sent to destroy and betray. In which case death might be some kind of a mercy? 

If she has always been corruption, a machine from the start then it's probably moral to destroy her avatar in the least... but like Vor says; "I am energy and I can never be destroyed" ?(paraphrasing).

What are the other options? 

For what ever reason, she was spared by the sentient leadership. She had an ability to slave Ballas to her will, and Ballas the warframes to his will... if I remember the "death"? confession scene correctly...(he is only the hand) The Warframes aren't vulnerable to him anymore with the help of the operator... 

So to defeat them killing her unlock's Ballas freewill? KIlling Ballas still leaves her at large but the Warframes have their biggest physical threat removed? Killing Ballas would probably be merciful too... if there is a way to save them both or kill them both? What effect does it have on the sentient hoards? any? none?  There might be some kind of lock and key sequence, a checkmate, why were the remaining tenno kept alive, why is Ballas still alive, What is the Lotus' motive. If Ballas is the last remaining Orokin being is it because Natah will be killed by the warframes on some kind of automated deadmans switch if Ballas dies? 

(That would make the warframes like a royal guard?) Umbra was more like a torture experiment for some perceived betrayal or failure...  

how can you make a poll when the full circumstances aren't revealed?

 

Edited by WarRelic
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Thanks to the person who sent this to me. I generally only get imagequoted in lore discussions from 5+ years ago. It's flattering that that one post is to be taken as representative of everyone who doesn't automatically want to kill the Lotus. I mean it's not like there are any number of better examples from me or others in the thread you ripped that out of right?

I find it hilarious that the op quotes me putting them on ignore for being pointlessly edgelordy and then tries to seek (using the finest example of passive aggression in a "poll" I've seen in a long time) "community" opinion on something.

I mean the sample is already tainted by survivor's bias. Only those who haven't already ignored you are going to answer, then doubly so by only including those who can tolerate cringy passive aggression.

Let's see how you do against the 38,000 respondants to the twitter poll.

Edited by SilentMobius
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If this is what really she is, a traitor, the She can die.

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kill her and ordis

give me an option to turn off all "communications" just small mission text from now on, the pop ups are annoying

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48 minutes ago, FoxyKabam said:

kill her and ordis

give me an option to turn off all "communications" just small mission text from now on, the pop ups are annoying

The fact that we need to listen to an ai, makes me sick. 

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I think the situation is more complicated than save / kill / don't care.

It's as if Natah's been caught in this weird tug-of-war, a victim of events / individuals beyond her control. She is either reprogrammed, or Hunhow or the Mother are whispering in her head.

Personally, I want to give her a chance to think for once and make a decision of her own will (but I'll defend myself if I must).

Possibilities? I think she will come back, but depending on our choices, the outcome will be different shades of gray:

  • the Tenno convince her to come back to our side willingly as Natah
  • she is captured and dragged back to our side, she becomes bargaining chip
  • she is captured, and the Tenno shackle her with the helmet again, returns to being Lotus

All theories of course, we'll just have to wait and see. 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Aldrr

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It is my opinion that the Lotus/Natah must be destroyed absolutely. If it is true that she was reprogrammed to aid us, then she never really was on our side. If that is a lie, then she is a deceiver as Ballas says, and should not be trusted. A liar will continue to lie, and when a liar tells the truth, why should one trust them that this is the truth? How do we know that the liar is truthful now, when they have told nothing but lies? We saw what happened to the one who trusted Natah. He now suffers immensely for that trust.

At her core, the Lotus is a sentient. The Sentients hate us. We are anathema to them. Our very being is toxic to their existence. We were used as weapons of war against them in the Old War, and for that they resent our being. Our past haunts us, and the Sentient, the enemy, resents our very existence because of the Orokin. They see us as an enemy, and have made attempts to surpass our might. We should not question for a moment that Natah, who is a Sentient, should be considered an enemy.

On a much more personal note, I'd sooner trust Alad V than Natah at this point. Alad is a predictable hunk of slime. And a useful one at that. Little genius created a whole strain of infestation and even successfully created amalgams of sentient and Corpus flesh. He's a genius who would prove valuable in the fight against the Sentients. We've saved his hind on multiple occasions too. He owes us immensely. We should cash that in.

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35 minutes ago, CaptainMinty said:

It is my opinion that the Lotus/Natah must be destroyed absolutely. If it is true that she was reprogrammed to aid us, then she never really was on our side. If that is a lie, then she is a deceiver as Ballas says, and should not be trusted. A liar will continue to lie, and when a liar tells the truth, why should one trust them that this is the truth? How do we know that the liar is truthful now, when they have told nothing but lies? We saw what happened to the one who trusted Natah. He now suffers immensely for that trust.

At her core, the Lotus is a sentient. The Sentients hate us. We are anathema to them. Our very being is toxic to their existence. We were used as weapons of war against them in the Old War, and for that they resent our being. Our past haunts us, and the Sentient, the enemy, resents our very existence because of the Orokin. They see us as an enemy, and have made attempts to surpass our might. We should not question for a moment that Natah, who is a Sentient, should be considered an enemy.

On a much more personal note, I'd sooner trust Alad V than Natah at this point. Alad is a predictable hunk of slime. And a useful one at that. Little genius created a whole strain of infestation and even successfully created amalgams of sentient and Corpus flesh. He's a genius who would prove valuable in the fight against the Sentients. We've saved his hind on multiple occasions too. He owes us immensely. We should cash that in.

Made me laugh...

Alad V is a non-sensical clown and a tool and a heel that gets tossed out windows to his death and made the infested’s &@tch and the Wolf’s &@tch and now the Sentient’s &@tch because his greed and sycophantic lust overcome anything about him that would make him more than a bloviating idiot-stooge who will likely come begging us to save him after giving Natah’s “MOTHER”  the keys to the Kingdom.

 

Edited by (PS4)Silverback73
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From my perspective, most people just want to kill her because they think her voice pop-ups in missions are annoying. And that's just rude.

Also, you'll still be stuck with purple fake-Lotus anyways, so joke's on you!


I want to save the Lotus because... she's been there for us, since our awakening, guiding us towards being whatever we can be. She could have let us die at the hands of Vor - she chose to release us from the pod, instead. Many steps along the way, she did aided us, again and again. These are not the actions of someone planning to destroy us later.

Many think she betrayed us. I disagree. I think the Sentient "Mother" is using her as a tool. Chimera prologue hints that the Mother has some level of control over her Sentients, and resisting her command isn't something they can easily or overtly do. Natah deserves to be free from that, just as the Tenno deserved to be free from the Orokin.

Maybe this is all about how she's been programmed. I think, just as Ballas was using her before, now the Sentients are using her. Her own free will isn't present in either option. I'd rather set her free from all of that. I suspect that, were she to will it, she would choose to side with the Tenno.

Also, I want to free Ballas. Not to be nice to him - but because I revel in the idea of him suffering as an abomination, after the way he's treated the Tenno and Natah. Maybe now he can be useful as a sort of... frame-smith?

As they've said before in a Devstream, the New War is all about the family you're born with vs the family you choose (which, for me, is somewhat personal, as I very much loathe my own parents and actively want them out of my life for numerous reasons - yes, i'm in my 30s and still hate my parents, deal with it). I think that's a very big clue as to what's going on with the Lotus.

Edited by DrakeWurrum
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3 hours ago, Aldrr said:

Hunhow or the Mother are whispering in her head.

It's unlikely to be Hunhow. Remember, in the Natah quest:

Quote

 

"They will say you are riven: They will try to reclaim you.

I will not be able to stop them."

 

Sounds to me like he'd want to stop them, but can't. It's unlikely, if he doesn't want to, that he'd be involved in the reclamation process. Unless he himself is also being manipulated.

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2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

It's unlikely to be Hunhow. Remember, in the Natah quest:

Sounds to me like he'd want to stop them, but can't. It's unlikely, if he doesn't want to, that he'd be involved in the reclamation process. Unless he himself is also being manipulated.

DE is showing us how brutal the Sentient matriarchy is. ;(

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