Operator bad?

[Mr.Ghrin]

On 2019-09-10 at 4:18 PM, xHeretic said:

So, warframes shouldnt rely on their abilities based on your "reasoning", neither mods nor weapons. I didnt know because I've tested it long ago, things werent tracked and, as you may noticed, I didnt know that things had changed. Forgive for my sins, overlord.

Also, having more dmg or better statics doesnt make me "good than the others", Ive never stated that. Ive stated "operator bad? Not at all". I didnt die because i have self regen and we were able to reach that point because our defensive abilities, thas why im saying tere was a frost and 2 khoras and didnt say "hey was me who carried the entire thing". Dont reflect your issues on me.

Warframes don't have to rely on abilities to survive. Inaros can work just fine with his survivability. Also, you wouldn't get anywhere without weapons, so Idk what the fk that point is about, including the point of the mods. Without mods you wouldn't even be MR 5 considering the fact you'd probably leave the game since you won't be able to do much. Saying "you" as in anyone that plays this game before you think I'm targeting you 

Also, stop trying to think I'm "reflecting" my issues onto you. It's pathetic 

And you never did say what they were doing or how they were playing. They couldn't help that they were getting killed quite easily. Besides, umbra gains a fk ton of armour, shield and health if you're in operator. He is one of the many frames that have to rely on abilities, and that's fine. Most of the frames I play rely on theirs anyway. 

I'm conclusion, operator is decent, but not many people use it because of how squishy they are (looking at the fact that if you're hit once) 

[vanaukas]

8 minutes ago, Phoenix42Lord42 said:

Warframes don't have to rely on abilities to survive. Inaros can work just fine with his survivability. Also, you wouldn't get anywhere without weapons, so Idk what the fk that point is about, including the point of the mods. Without mods you wouldn't even be MR 5 considering the fact you'd probably leave the game since you won't be able to do much. Saying "you" as in anyone that plays this game before you think I'm targeting you 

Also, stop trying to think I'm "reflecting" my issues onto you. It's pathetic 

And you never did say what they were doing or how they were playing. They couldn't help that they were getting killed quite easily. Besides, umbra gains a fk ton of armour, shield and health if you're in operator. He is one of the many frames that have to rely on abilities, and that's fine. Most of the frames I play rely on theirs anyway. 

I'm conclusion, operator is decent, but not many people use it because of how squishy they are (looking at the fact that if you're hit once) 

Inaros to survie has to rely in his 4, that's an ability. I've said that example because you said:

On 2019-09-10 at 7:26 AM, Phoenix42Lord42 said:

Secondly, operators are seen as bad because they're squishy and they need to rely on dashing/invisibility to not die. If you were running around with no invis, Amp only and no dashing, I would respect you completely and even give you plat (jk, plat is expensive S#&$) 

And yes, every warframe rely on their abilitites, what's the problem if the operators rely on their own? Mods, weapons, abilities, arcanes, focus schools, amps and more things (companions, gear, etc) are in the game because they are necesary to progress and do the things we do right now, I wa strying to point you in that direction, but it seems you forget what you have said, it's fine tho.

Umbra as far as I know take 100% damage when you are in operator mode and that's why most people complain if you take it to an eidolon fight, this is waht I found on the wiki:

"Unlike other Warframes, Excalibur Umbra's sentience allows him to remain active after using Transference, supporting the Operator with abilities and equipped weapons. However, Umbra can be damaged, and will stop moving once all of his health is depleted."

"Umbra can receive damage and healing in his specter form. Health and shields lost in his specter form will not be restored upon returning to Umbra."

"Once all of Umbra's health is depleted, he will stop moving or attacking"

Would you mind to give the data for the ton of armor, shild and health you are suggesting he gains? Becasue all I can found says the opposite and I don't know how I can test that. 

And for your issues:

On 2019-09-10 at 7:26 AM, Phoenix42Lord42 said:

Thirdly, the fact that you didn't know umbra's damage stacks to yours makes me think you're not really the type of player that cares about how the game works rather than just big numbers 

Maybe learn the game before you come to the forums like "I do damage and I'm better than these people that don't have what I have lol" 

You are pretty much reflecting your mindset on me, because I've never said or implied such thing at all. If I were looking for big numbers, I would simply play Gara, I can't recall a frame who gains that kind of immeasurable amount of damage so fast and easy as her.

Showing stats just prove that I indeed did something, that doesn't make me better than anyone, just that I was (or at least, I think) useful for the mission instead a hindrance. You can see it in this thread, people calling me out because "the operator it's too op with that combo (umbra, good equipment, magus lockdown)" and the other end "operator is useless, noob, don't play as umbra+operator don't work outside the index"... So welp, have a nice farm.
 

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, xHeretic said:

Because I was not trying to get dps, my role is provide support first, I do that with huge CC radius (both umbra and operator), provide heal and carrying canister as fast as I could. I don't want to just blow things, I wanna provide support (heals to be specific) to the excavator, and that is only achieved as vazarin, because there is no warframe created that heal excavators, just vazarin. If you know about one that can heal things like that (deffense artifacts) rather than just teammates or operatives, please, point it out.

And for the guy, I didn't know it was him on the group, he was one of the khora, Frost losing some points wasn't bad an i'm not blaming him in any case, losing excavators (we lose something like 3 iirc)

I really don't get because thsio is considered bragging, i've never said I carried the thing, i've never said i've done alone this thing, i've just said: I played as opertor, providades support, was able to kill thins on 300+ lvl, was the only survivor and that is the true, if you (or everyone else) wanna do assumptions on my usefulness, go ahead, I'll still do better test to prove things like this: Operator + Umbra can do amazing things and Operator without Umbra maybe isn't that powerfull, but still can do high tier content.

Which is completely pointless when Khora can do it all without Vazarin, while also bringing that much more useful support with her different CCs and a nice damage boost when things are in her cage/web, especially against infested. 

[vanaukas]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is completely pointless when Khora can do it all without Vazarin, while also bringing that much more useful support with her different CCs and a nice damage boost when things are in her cage/web, especially against infested. 

nope, khora cant heal the excavator as far as I know and arbitration drones snd the foes under their shield can surpass the dome, lockdown can stop them and I can still heal the excavator

[Luciole77]

i did too with lockdown+destruct. Nothing new.

[vanaukas]

4 minutes ago, Luciole77 said:

i did too with lockdown+destruct. Nothing new.

I wasn't saying is new, I'm glad to see more people using it! That's the whole point!

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, xHeretic said:

nope, khora cant heal the excavator as far as I know and arbitration drones snd the foes under their shield can surpass the dome, lockdown can stop them and I can still heal the excavator

But you see, she can heal the excavator. You simply tell Venari to stay on target and that is what it will do, stay there and wait to heal it. I'd be surprised if they have changed that recently. And why do you let infested and drones get close to begin with? No kit should go in without a weapon to easily deal with drones. We have Arca P, Catchmoon and Melee to make quick work of them.

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But you see, she can heal the excavator. You simply tell Venari to stay on target and that is what it will do, stay there and wait to heal it. I'd be surprised if they have changed that recently. And why do you let infested and drones get close to begin with? No kit should go in without a weapon to easily deal with drones. We have Arca P, Catchmoon and Melee to make quick work of them.

They was indeed using plasmor and the drones got in there many times. I don't know how they were using venrai, I was seeing them (the 2 venaris) cutting enemies but I don't remember if they were healing at all. Do venari make the excavators invulnerable for 6 seconds too?

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

They was indeed using plasmor and the drones got in there many times. I don't know how they were using venrai, I was seeing them (the 2 venaris) cutting enemies but I don't remember if they were healing at all. Do venari make the excavators invulnerable for 6 seconds too?

If Venari attacks then no she wont heal since she is in the wrong stance. Making extractors invulnerable for 6 sec versus infested is pointless if you have a proper group going. Looks like your group were made up of too much defense and gimmicks while lacking damage and coverage.

[vanaukas]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If Venari attacks then no she wont heal since she is in the wrong stance. Making extractors invulnerable for 6 sec versus infested is pointless if you have a proper group going. Looks like your group were made up of too much defense and gimmicks while lacking damage and coverage.

Do you read when I said that was a random pub group? I dont look for groups on recruitment, I just jump on public if there is no one there, I go on solo. The only times when I made a group is when I play woth my brother, my gf or both and they play whatever they want most of the time because I have infinite heal (and my energy is infinite and dont drain due eximus) scalling dmg and the posibility to play with good gear even if im on operator mode. My big mistake here was saying "my amp was killing 300+ enemies" and "umbra stats doent track when operator mode" and thats have nothing to do with all what are you saying. If venari cant make things invulnerable for almost infinite amount of time (because can be recasted), and cant heal 60% of the maximum health, operator is best on that thing and that's all. Make a better umbra and vazarin operator and try for yourself outside the index 😉

[JackHargreav]

I kinda wonder if I met you.

I had this one defense mission with a guy who was really happy about having the most kills with the operator. While he had an Umbra with an Arca Plasmor. 

[hendrix923]

On 2019-09-08 at 5:55 PM, xHeretic said:

Played as operator 1 h 30 mins on arbi, never died, doing the most damage, less dagame taken, my team mates died since the 43 excavator and in the end i had to extract because everyone except me died. 

I appreciate the post. Need to farm a new amp and this is helping me (223 now). Do u use the same amp for Eidolons?  Want something good that can dual purpose. Thanks for the info. 

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, JackHargreav said:

I kinda wonder if I met you.

I had this one defense mission with a guy who was really happy about having the most kills with the operator. While he had an Umbra with an Arca Plasmor. 

I don't use arca plasmor, I dont say anything on the chat regardless the mission or answering things and I play on spanish

[vanaukas]

1 hour ago, hendrix923 said:

I appreciate the post. Need to farm a new amp and this is helping me (223 now). Do u use the same amp for Eidolons?  Want something good that can dual purpose. Thanks for the info. 

Nope, for eidolons I use cantic prism, shraksun scaffold and certus brace, that amp is my to go amp for high level corpus too, but because the self damage you take with shraksun I just use virtuos strike as arcane for now. I use the cantic - pencha - certus to put virtuos spike and I bring that on grineer and high level infested. lohrin brace works good too but I prefer certus. If u cant go with little duck yet, raplak/shraksun/lohrin its pretty nice too. I hope this helps!

In this thread you can check out the perfomance of the cantic/pencha/certus with virtuos spike: 

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by xHeretic

[George_PPS]

My Operator is also fully maxed, unlocked, Focus Schools unbound. He is very powerful but in no way I’d play him exclusively. He is like the assistant of my warframes. 

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, xHeretic said:

Do you read when I said that was a random pub group? I dont look for groups on recruitment, I just jump on public if there is no one there, I go on solo. The only times when I made a group is when I play woth my brother, my gf or both and they play whatever they want most of the time because I have infinite heal (and my energy is infinite and dont drain due eximus) scalling dmg and the posibility to play with good gear even if im on operator mode. My big mistake here was saying "my amp was killing 300+ enemies" and "umbra stats doent track when operator mode" and thats have nothing to do with all what are you saying. If venari cant make things invulnerable for almost infinite amount of time (because can be recasted), and cant heal 60% of the maximum health, operator is best on that thing and that's all. Make a better umbra and vazarin operator and try for yourself outside the index 😉

Yeah and gimmick builds are a liability in PuGs. PuGs also being a place where performance of a build cant really be shown since you dont really know what the rest are going to do or how they will perform. As I also said, you shouldnt need to rely on heals in excav missions, especially not versus infested. And you could still bring a vazarin operator along with Khora for that "oh S#&$!" button incase you screw up enough that Venari cant keep the excav topped off. But if you do bring Khora, chances are small that anything but drone patrols ever get close or need any real attention.

My main point is that Umbra+Operator is a bad choice for excavs. The operator itself isnt a bad thing to utilize, but it can be utilized with far far better frames for the mode. Limbo+Operator, nothing can ever get close to the objective besides drones and when they close in you blow them up with your operator. Khora, Frost and Gara can just use the operator as a quick heal when needed, while also bringing far superior defense mechanics to the mission. That is if you need to rely on vazarin to begin with.

[vanaukas]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah and gimmick builds are a liability in PuGs. PuGs also being a place where performance of a build cant really be shown since you dont really know what the rest are going to do or how they will perform. As I also said, you shouldnt need to rely on heals in excav missions, especially not versus infested. And you could still bring a vazarin operator along with Khora for that "oh S#&$!" button incase you screw up enough that Venari cant keep the excav topped off. But if you do bring Khora, chances are small that anything but drone patrols ever get close or need any real attention.

My main point is that Umbra+Operator is a bad choice for excavs. The operator itself isnt a bad thing to utilize, but it can be utilized with far far better frames for the mode. Limbo+Operator, nothing can ever get close to the objective besides drones and when they close in you blow them up with your operator. Khora, Frost and Gara can just use the operator as a quick heal when needed, while also bringing far superior defense mechanics to the mission. That is if you need to rely on vazarin to begin with.

Too bad, 2 khora and 1 frost wrent enough, if i taked another frost im pretty sure we couldnt last the same as umbra  + operator, because I had to heal the excavators pretty often, enough to stay alive the whole mission and do good damage. Maybe dont insane dmg as a "dps frame". I have one video from a few hours back where I played with a limbo, octavia and mag and me as umbra, but they died too much despite their kits and I had to extract alone because they requested it and losing the ability to perform a longer mission. I never died too.

If I use a vazarin operator with any frame who rely on energy, I had to drop pizzas like a maniac, zenurik would be better and they are still afected by eximus energy drain (the most unit in longer missioms with infested enemies), also if I use from heal my warframe would ve inactive and with umbra I are indeed still using my powerful gear despite using operator (that's why most poeple were complaining on the first place and why i'm doing endurance test with the operator alone).

As I said many times:

1) You should try for yourself, copy my build if u need, because indeed I do almost every content (except orbs and eidolon) as umbra + operator every day in solo, pub and squad and most of the time my performance its the same (never dying, healing most as I can, reviving allies, providing CC). 

2) All you are doing here is making assumptions about how bad I performed and just believed the guy who did worst on the mission, stats doesnt lie, because I dont even was the host to have a "scrambled stats" as you suggested, that kind of things happens when you are the host, if you wanna state the opposite, provide screenshots as I did. At least provide data to sustain your assumptions.

3) Im getting pretty tired responding just assumptions from a person wbo lacks of knowledge and experience with operator + umbra and thnk that combo "works just in the index", its pretty near to talk to a wall. See point 1.

Edited September 13, 2019 by xHeretic
typos and expanding a little

[vanaukas]

I asked for permission for uploading this, I have no way to edit the names because even if I cennsored them on the left, I ended up showing up by just seeing them because that's how the system works. If this violates any rules, PLEASE let me know instead of just deleting it, I wanna know if I made a mistake to not making it again (like with the first screenshots, no one said anything but by luck I've uploaded somethign by mistake and ended up seeing they were deleted because a request from a tenno involved)..

This is ONE example of the things I encounter almost every day (no just arbi, every mission) and why I decided to rely on the operator + umbra combo instead conventional defense frames. I don't have the intention of making fun of the people of the video, shaming them or saying "i'm better than them" or something like that, just wanna show WHY I play as operator + umbra and how effective can be, nothing more, nothing less. Next time I see an excavation I will go on solo and make the final video of this thread at all to provide DATA instead ASSUMPTIONS.
 

In case you didn't see the frames, they were: Nova, Banshee, Limbo, Frost, Inaros. I loved that Inaros, I didnt understand what he was saying but had the courage to keep until almost the end. I could probably survive longer but I was pretty tired and demoralized in the end and the enemies were too strong  to just get endo (I have everything I want from here except a riven for my 2 archgun)

Edited September 14, 2019 by xHeretic