Why not just add a store system?

[JuicyPop]

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

I gave you a glimpse of it and you basically just said "no u" in longer format without any comprehension or thought to what that system would look like. You're simply not worth the energy and I don't believe you intellectually sophisticated enough to grasp it even if I did. You have no argument of any kind, so there's no need for me to have a counter argument to it. The base argument I--and many here--have been making has yet to meet with any real counter either, so the way I see is simply: Us 1 - You 0.

Your move.

I literally just gave you two posts with my thoughts on the previous page and your response was simply, “You don’t understand.” What don’t I understand? Enlighten me.

[FrostDragoon]

You keep using overly simplistic ideas for your "argument." You do so in one-dimensional ways. What you don't understand is the issue itself and why AH style markets work better than the current one. Hell, you don't even seem to understand how or why they work at all.

[Althaline]

Just because an Auction House works in other games doesn't necessarily mean it will work in Warframe, that is a fallacy. Tell me, what other game lets you trade the premium currency and also has an auction house? In fact, what other game lets you trade premium currency at all?

[FrostDragoon]

2 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Just because an Auction House works in other games doesn't necessarily mean it will work in Warframe, that is a fallacy. Tell me, what other game lets you trade the premium currency and also has an auction house? In fact, what other game lets you trade premium currency at all?

Firefall used to do it before it shut down, but it's shut down has a, um... "storied background." It wasn't because of this particular feature. It worked great too.

You can take that argument with you on your way out the door, thanks.

[Althaline]

4 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Firefall used to do it before it shut down, but it's shut down has a, um... "storied background." It wasn't because of this particular feature. It worked great too.

You can take that argument with you on your way out the door, thanks.

I'm uncertain what your response was for. I looked at the article you linked, and it says nothing about the game itself, only the issues with its upper management. Given your vague, unrelated response, I am hurt you would tell me to leave a discussion simply for bringing up a rather valid point against your position, especially in such a dismissive manner.

[Sharkgoblin]

On 2019-09-09 at 10:26 AM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

I have heard a lot of complaints about a lot of things in this game, but the most irritating thing for me, to be honest...is the fact I have to stop playing to sell things. 

Warframe literally wants you to stop playing sometimes (like the items that take 12-72h to be created, or the 1,5h gap between eidolon hunts), it's no big deal at this moment because players don't really bother at all for some reason. 

But what annoys me the most is having to spend maybe hours of my day trying to sell items. I don't see any harm on a store system, you just put the items there with the price you want and forget about their existence. 

People buy it, you receive the platinum on the inbox, perfect.

well you can earn premium currency and reasonably and literally anyone can do it, but in exchange you have to put time in it. its fair

use warframe.market if you ctrl v on trade chat is not your cup of tea

[JuicyPop]

14 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

You keep using overly simplistic ideas for your "argument." You do so in one-dimensional ways. What you don't understand is the issue itself and why AH style markets work better than the current one. Hell, you don't even seem to understand how or why they work at all.

I’m still not seeing your input.

Either contribute meaningfully or walk away.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

17 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Just because an Auction House works in other games doesn't necessarily mean it will work in Warframe, that is a fallacy. Tell me, what other game lets you trade the premium currency and also has an auction house? In fact, what other game lets you trade premium currency at all?

Tera (it doesn't actually let you trade Premium currency, BUT you can buy everything "premium" from other players with gold via trading, so it ends up in the same way).

[THEWR3CK]

On 2019-09-09 at 4:33 AM, GinKenshin said:

not perfect, at least not for DE. They want you to take time to get plat. If it's as easy as putting an item on a board and getting free plat if someone buys is they plat and PA/PV sales will go down the hole. If you want plat, then spend the time making it, period. 

This makes no sense. Guess what platinum is not created from in game activities. It can only be bought from DE store. A store for trading would be great. The more impulse buys , the more platinum would be bought. Most major sellers are breaking the user agreement by using bots or multiple accounts anyways.

 

[FrostDragoon]

13 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

I'm uncertain what your response was for. I looked at the article you linked, and it says nothing about the game itself, only the issues with its upper management. Given your vague, unrelated response, I am hurt you would tell me to leave a discussion simply for bringing up a rather valid point against your position, especially in such a dismissive manner.

I doubt you are hurt, but I'll offer my apology anyway. It was more of a reflex reaction to the more trollish posters on these forums, and I took your response as something similar.

The point I was making with that article was that the reason Firefall failed wasn't because of its use of an AH style market with premium currency included. It failed for all those other things in the article. The game was actually a lot of fun and had a fair bit in common with Warframe at the time, which is actually what got me into Warframe to begin with! I wanted to include that article because I predicted that the usual trolls would response with, "Oh, that game failed and it had the AH; therefore, it failed because of the AH," when that clearly wasn't the case.

[FrostDragoon]

13 hours ago, Sharkgoblin said:

well you can earn premium currency and reasonably and literally anyone can do it, but in exchange you have to put time in it. its fair

use warframe.market if you ctrl v on trade chat is not your cup of tea

You use warframe.market--a 3rd party AH-like website--and say we don't need an AH?

Kids these days...

[Grahark]

22 hours ago, Iamabearlulz said:

Just because an Auction House works in other games doesn't necessarily mean it will work in Warframe, that is a fallacy. Tell me, what other game lets you trade the premium currency and also has an auction house? In fact, what other game lets you trade premium currency at all?

Guild Wars 2. They even have an in game currency that you can convert for the typical purchasable currency. All with a 24/7 Auction House and all the other great things you could want. Research noob. 

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, Grahark said:

Guild Wars 2. They even have an in game currency that you can convert for the typical purchasable currency. All with a 24/7 Auction House and all the other great things you could want. Research noob. 

People always say stupid S#&$ like that when they don't have an argument. "Show me a game where this works, hurrrr." It doesn't matter how many examples you provide. They will always look for some other excuse as an "argument." The only extremely bad AH I've ever seen was in D3, but there were a ton of factors that caused that one to fail, yet people took away the fallacious notion that "AH doesn't work on ARPGs." Stupid.

[(XBOX)GodMasterTP]

2 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

People always say stupid S#&$ like that when they don't have an argument. "Show me a game where this works, hurrrr." It doesn't matter how many examples you provide. They will always look for some other excuse as an "argument." The only extremely bad AH I've ever seen was in D3, but there were a ton of factors that caused that one to fail, yet people took away the fallacious notion that "AH doesn't work on ARPGs." Stupid.

Could you do me a favor? Can you summarize all the stupid questions along with simple answers? I will edit the post and credit you.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

27 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Oh hey its the guzmantt bloke who just loves showing up on every thread that even pokes the idea of a alternative form of marketing even if its something as simple as sub-chat systems, then proceeds to bash the ones who would like some change or throw up `reasons` why market chat should stay the same despite already having so many frustrations in place.

First of ya`ll do you really expect people to dig thru a search tool when no use of tags or same search terminologies are used to only pull up those? Market Chat is quite literally the same as that at this point, heavily unreliable to set up only one or a couple of filters to get things to a manage-able level, yet at the same time ruins making some decent marketing because you cant sort trash text from text you can make sales with.

Either you get swarmed with loads of text or you put up so many filters you barely get anything to show up at all.

Quite literally due to the Saint update on console, all my filters got reset and do not get me started on how it turned into getting at least a dozen or so messages in less then every second at how bad it was. Put the no WTS filter on, still got about half that traffic slap the no riven/prime ones, still got some riven & prime spam on. put the WTB only show filter on and it was starting to at the very least get to a readable level.

Plus do not get me started on the fact we still lack a bloody /CLEAR command to purge text flood occasionally as we do things like update filters, clean up the wall of text to check posting frequency and just not have to stare at garbage text, that usually is some players who somehow got a instant sale within 5 seconds of posting despite us PM-ing them basically the instant they posted something.

 

 

Pretty sure that I have repeatedly explained to you that a positive filter is superior to all of the negative filters you can come up with, for what you are complaining about. Your issue seems to be a matter of simple greed. You want to be able to sell everything at once (a set that probably includes many things that you don't currently have to offer), instead of focusing on a small number of items that you do have and are currently willing to trade. By applying a raft of many negative filters to eliminate rivens, you are actually also removing many of the messages that you might be able to benefit from, but your refusal to step back from how you have been trying to do it, means that you are probably going to dismiss the advice once again. 

 

Basically, you seem to be fundamentally incapable of figuring out how to make effective use of the filter tool. 

41 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

No u, hurrr!

See, I can do that too, lmao.

Revelling in your own ignorance will not make your ignorance less total. Go educate yourself. 

[FrostDragoon]

How about you try to make even one half way relevant point that shows why this system is better than an AH? I doubt you can do it.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

20 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

How about you try to make even one half way relevant point that shows why this system is better than an AH? I doubt you can do it.

Still with the "Waaaaah spoon feed me now because I can't use search, and refuse to educate myself" tactic? 

 

 

Supply and Demand. 

This game allows nearly infinite supply of most items, but demand is usually highly limited. We have no recurring demand, because most items are "build once, own forever", which is highly unlike the situation that applies to the real world. Some other games have enforced demand by including wear and tear/repair mechanics or items that are truly consumed. We don't have many such mechanics. 

The auction house, passive trading system will cause a crash in prices for most items, because while it increases supply, it doesn't increase demand. Warframe.market had a similar effect when implemented if old posts from the time are to be believed. 

 

Apart from that there are also technical issues that have to be overcome before a system that synchronises across multiple servers and regions can be implemented, based on what I understand DE to have said. 

 

 

The trade chat works, as can be seen where serious traders talk about making hundreds or thousands of Plat per day. The fact that some people can't grasp how to make effective use of it, doesn't say that the system is bad, but that the users aren't quite as bright as they think they are. 

[FrostDragoon]

So, basically, you're committing the same over-simplified mistakes as everyone else. Okay.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Supply/Demand will be impacted, but people seem to think an AH will only increase supply. People who will not interact with trade chat or 3rd party websites now become potential buyers, increasing demand.

Really really common stuff will likely fall in value a little (but there will be a floor that people won't bother going lower for to take up valuable daily trade slots.)

There are a lot more variables that I've considered, but I err on the side of not repeatedly providing the same points, and summarily being ignored by people who think they've already accounted for them, when they clearly haven't.

Edit (added from here down)

One of the biggest factors this game has going for it not running into the common problems with mudflation and such, is that the currency used for transactions is the premium currency that cannot be created infinitely through in-game systems. It has to be bought at some point with real money, and there are plat sinks such as slots and cosmetics that permanently remove plat from the economy on a grand scale. I mean, I've mentioned this before, but it's always ignored, as one example of the above "a lot more variables" that I've considered.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra

[BlackRoseAngel]

On 2019-09-09 at 1:26 AM, (XB1)XG1anBl4derX said:

I have heard a lot of complaints about a lot of things in this game, but the most irritating thing for me, to be honest...is the fact I have to stop playing to sell things. 

Warframe literally wants you to stop playing sometimes (like the items that take 12-72h to be created, or the 1,5h gap between eidolon hunts), it's no big deal at this moment because players don't really bother at all for some reason. 

But what annoys me the most is having to spend maybe hours of my day trying to sell items. I don't see any harm on a store system, you just put the items there with the price you want and forget about their existence. 

People buy it, you receive the platinum on the inbox, perfect.

Because the current system can be exploited and gets people to buy platinum. A trading system would make it harder for robber barons to rip people off, thus making it harder for DE to sell plat.

[(PSN)thegarada]

When I look at WF as a game this is primary missing feature in the game. And there is zero sound logic behind it not being here, beside DE being too lazy to add it.

Just few points in this thread to address the silly misconceptions that people through.

"The game economy is going to crassssssssssh," just like Amazon crashed the US economy. Oh wait it did not. Reducing entry barriers for trading ALWAYS ALWAYS makes the economy better. The prices will go down, but there will be much more supply and much higher demand. In fact, the most likely outcome is that DE will sell way more platinum. This will also close the loop of anyone selling or buying items on the side for real cash (which certainly exists). You know.. all games figured this out years ago.

"People will negotiate," no they will not. All low platinum cost items have specific prices pre-determined based on WF market. No one negotiates for anything. You could make a case that expensive items (Rivens and some prime stuff) will have some negotiations involved. And that takes us to the next one.

Do we need negotiations at all? What purpose do they serve, but waste our time? You could argue, the human interaction or building community.

As for technology reducing human interaction, this a completed subject (and surely is true). However, jumping from there and claiming that an out dated trading system is going to help building community is just.. dumb. When was the last time you connected with the cashier in any store? 

To be fair, I think the current trading functionality should stay regardless, this way clan members and friends can easily exchange stuff. However, it is in everyone's best interest (players and DE) to have market place.

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by (PS4)thegarada

[FrostDragoon]

Yep, pretty much. That's why I don't usually give serious consideration or time to the lamers who keep repeating that nonsense. It's not true, never was, and isn't worth trying to explain to those morons. It's the same white knights that try to do the same $#!7 in Path of Exile, despite the fact that it too relies on 3rd party AH web sites for precisely the same reasons.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, BlackRoseAngel said:

Because the current system can be exploited and gets people to buy platinum. A trading system would make it harder for robber barons to rip people off, thus making it harder for DE to sell plat.

That's patent nonsense. It would make it impossible for casual players to earn plat.

Rivens would be among the few things that would remain high value because of how unique they are. Supply of "god-rolls" will remain unlikely to ever outstrip demand. Your robber barons would be sitting pretty under the proposed changes. 

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Really really common stuff will likely fall in value a little (but there will be a floor that people won't bother going lower for to take up valuable daily trade slots.)

You underestimate people's desperation for plat to buy slots. I have personally seen people selling sets on warframe.market for less than the going rate for the same number of pieces of prime junk. There is always someone willing to take less than the lowest asking price, and many multiyear vets will probably be more than willing to flood the auction house just to get rid of the mountains of accumulated crap. 

Your mode of thinking explains why we get so many threads by sellers who are upset about the decline in price over the years. They honestly think that they have something of great value, despite seeing it trade for much less than the price they are looking for. 

Yes both supply and demand will be affected, but not for the reason you seem to think. Demand will shift because of the falling prices, but "build once, use forever" means that won't last. Most everyone who still lacks the items and can pay, will do so, and all that's left is the poor, desperate souls who can't find anything worth selling. After that it's all "prime junk". 

I would benefit from such a change in the short term, but the long term effects would destroy the economy and possibly the game as a whole. 

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

In almost every broker system 

you just look up who is selling the lowest for the item and just sell lower than them

you have no idea how hard the price drops will hit the economy at this point of the game

and for uber rare items people just make ridiculous high selling prices since there is no competition (aka rivens rn but worse)

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

"The game economy is going to crassssssssssh," just like Amazon crashed the US economy. Oh wait it did not. Reducing entry barriers for trading ALWAYS ALWAYS makes the economy better. The prices will go down, but there will be much more supply and much higher demand. 

In the US economy do cars never needed to be replaced or repaired? If you buy a cell phone, do you expect to keep it for 30 years or will it break, or need to be replaced after just a few years? Hell didn't you pay any attention to the stories of cellphone manufacturers "upgrading" the phones in ways that broke their functionality badly, forcing people to replace them? Do you even realise how hard people have had to fight for the right to repair the phones, rather than shelling out money to buy a new one? 

 

Can't you figure out how the economy in warframe, which lacks enforced demand, is different from what applies to the real world? 

1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Yep, pretty much. That's why I don't usually give serious consideration or time to the lamers who keep repeating that nonsense. It's not true, never was, and isn't worth trying to explain to those morons. It's the same white knights that try to do the same $#!7 in Path of Exile, despite the fact that it too relies on 3rd party AH web sites for precisely the same reasons.

Funny. From here it just looks like you are stuck on the wrong side of Dunning-kruger, because you just don't know enough to realise how little you actually know. I looked back a couple of pages and saw people trying to explain to you in baby terms why crashing prices are bad, but you just didn't get it. I even took the time to show you how supply and demand work for us, but it looks like that's still beyond your grasp. 

Because you got exactly what you asked for, and suddenly had very little to say about it, and seem to have resorted to ad homs, which is a good indication that you never had anything worth saying in the first place. 

You really should feel embarrassed about how little you understand what you are trying to discuss.