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Nightwave and Quests


Cerebrophage
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Just now, XRosenkreuz said:

The real crime is that it's not even a bad suggestion. I don't see it getting implemented, but it's a decent idea.

Maybe lead with the good instead of the complaining next time, hey?

It's amazing what can be done when pride can be swallowed and constructive and positive thought be put into play.

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"I do not ask for a lowering in difficulty. But perhaps, the ability to choose your objectives, rather than be given a static set that you must fulfill? I think the ability to choose would be more engaging for players and offer a more rounded experience for a larger number of players."

 

>.> DE, I get you want to make it so people play your game longer.

The "find all 3 caches" were hard enough for me with my ADHD; it's hard to search places moreso than the normal person. Now, you're making apothics a 7k rep? Come on...

Not only do I have ADHD, I have very limited time to play warframe. Finding all these materials is a nightmare with the sunlight/moonlight mechanic PLUS starting from scratch; getting only one item per scan. That's a bit excessive, don't you think?

If you're going to make quests part of nightwave, that's fine. But please for the love of god, don't do ones like that. I have enough of a difficult time finding all 3 caches (three times). It took me all of my gaming session last night (3 hours) to find them. I can't do them with clanmates typically because they're busy pursuing their own agenda, and PUGs just want to rush the mission, so I gotta do it on my own.

My entire gaming session. For 4.5k rep.

 

Addendum:

The fundamental problem here folks is that when I play, I can ONLY play nightwave because if I want to earn these rewards, I have to focus 100% of my time on them. I can't finish up my rep for any of the planetary folks or even worry about relics, arbitrations, sanctuary onslaught, etc.

"So don't do them, they're cosmetic."

Untrue. After you reach 30, you can keep earning "Cred" which will allow you to purchase mods, nitain extract, and other potatoes which are near impossible.

Solution One:

While there are those out there who suffer similar conditions to my own and experience no difficulties, it should be recognized that everyone has different challenges that they have to face. I recognize that some have it worse than me and certainly, some have it easier. I speak here today for those who have it worse than, or equal to the difficulties I face with this game function DE has put into place. I do not ask for a lowering in difficulty. But perhaps, the ability to choose your objectives, rather than be given a static set that you must fulfill? I think the ability to choose would be more engaging for players and offer a more rounded experience for a larger number of players.

Solution Two:

Create a tier-based Nightwave system for challenges that players can select from. Tiers raning I-X. I being your "earn so many kills this way." Here you can choose by sliding and doing kills, getting melee kills, or using gas based damage etc. You can choose one and then move to the next tier. Next tier could be like "Complete 3 of X Missions (capture, spy, etc). Tier 3 could be like "Complete x Bounties on x", etc, etc. All the way up to tier X which could be viewed as the most challenging: Kill the Ropalolyst (not that challenging, but could be for some), or kill the Profit Taker, or Capture a Hydrolyst. For the Needle challenges you could pick between "Find 3 Ayatan Scupltures" or "Find all 3 caches 3 times" or "Kill the Silver Grove Guardian".

Conclusion:

  1. It is agreed by some players that the cycles of day/night are a bit extreme in some circumstances.
  2. Having nightwave hold multiple "find the needle" challenges in one week might be a bit extreme (in this case, three in one week - including one where a day/night schedule had locked content for some)
  3. Some players feel that these are just fine and do not need to be modified, they argue there's plenty of time to complete the challenges.
  4. Solutions have been proposed to compromise between both parties, the speakers of the party who suggest that the time allotment is fine, say that these lower the difficulty, while the former party argues, the difficulty remains the same, just requiring different skill sets.
  5. No solution has been agreed upon. With the former party who is pressed for time has multiple solutions or suggestions, the other party has offered none. Only to say "Make time." or, "Find a different game." or, "Squad up." Which are not really solutions or compromises. Reasons have been stated why these answers may not always work and since no other solution or compromise has been given.

The purpose of this thread was to give feedback to DE from a group of players who suffer from certain conditions that limit their capacity to enjoy the game designs implemented by DE. Not to propose a commentary from either side.

This objective has been accomplished.

/thread.

Edited by Cerebrophage
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Okay, neither of your addendums reply to what I said in the thread you made not long ago (an hour or two at most) so I will re-comment.  Maybe Warframe just isn't the game for you if you don't have the time for it.  It's the same reason I don't play EVE even though I would love to.  If the game is made to cater for the LCD (lowest common denominator) then it stop appealing for anyone above that.  You are an outlier, and if you can't find ways to adapt then you need to move on.  I'm not being harsh or misunderstanding what you're facing (I face similar issues), I'm just being realistic.

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5 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Okay, neither of your addendums reply to what I said in the thread you made not long ago (an hour or two at most) so I will re-comment.  Maybe Warframe just isn't the game for you if you don't have the time for it.  It's the same reason I don't play EVE even though I would love to.  If the game is made to cater for the LCD (lowest common denominator) then it stop appealing for anyone above that.  You are an outlier, and if you can't find ways to adapt then you need to move on.  I'm not being harsh or misunderstanding what you're facing (I face similar issues), I'm just being realistic.

Believe me, I've been through many games and Warframe is the ONLY game that is Multiplayer that has exactly what I need.

Warframe, as I brag to my friends, is SO adataptable that it has something for everyone to enjoy. Even the systems within warframe are adaptable so that there are more ways than one to approach a challenge. Nightwave is kinda static and very unforgiving in the tasks that you may have to face as I've said. I am offering a suggestion which may further enhance this games famous adaptability and push for a greater experience for everyone so that all gameplay styles will work will with the Nightwave series.

As far as looking for games, I've been through a list of roughly 30 or so multiplayer games that suit my taste.My brothers and I just went through this. THey actually don't like warframe because it doesn't interest them for whatever reason, but this game has exactly what I need when I need it. That is, until this Apothic quest came into Nightwave and created a problem.

To elaborate on that problem, Threshcones function on a four hour cycle as well do their lily counterparts. If you so happen to only have a four hour window (or three in my case) to play, then you're only exposed to that time slot. Let me tell you how hard it is to grind Eidolons... xD Very difficult.

Edited by Cerebrophage
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I don't know how much affect the ADHD to you or warframe in general, but for caches the answer IMO is pretty simple. Recruitment chat and get a squad to search them. You can do the main objective, and the rest of the squad search for caches.

For apothics idk what to say to you. Back in the past the Sahasa or Chesa kubrows (don't remember which of both) were able to take plants. I don't know if this still being a thing.

But you can just skip apothic missions. As said, the creds past 30 aren't worth it. For potatoes is better do the gift of the lotus alerts and/or infestations or farm relics for pl. Mods are 1 purchase each and you really don't need 80% of them. With CP, Steel Charge, Physique, Sprint Boost, Pistol Amp, Dead Eye and Shield Disruption, you are done. And being the last 4 extremely circumstantial (speed, mesa, eidolon/orb hunter and extremely high level corpus/index)

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Just now, Cerebrophage said:

I am offering a suggestion which may further enhance this games famous adaptability and push for a greater experience for everyone so that all gameplay styles will work will with the Nightwave series.

I don't think you realise that you aren't.  By adapting the game to be even quicker to complete you're making it so players like I play the game even less.  NW doesn't require any real time or skill investment and is therefor just a checklist that players like I log in for 30-60 minutes on a Monday to complete, then are back at the stage of having nothing to do and therefor not playing the game.  This is why I mentioned LCD, because in this case when referring to potential time/effort input, that's what you are.  The only way to balance this would be to have more time/effort consuming challenges available to chose (if we follow what you want about selectable challenges) that give greater amounts of rewards, but then we'd be back at the same point where you're complaining about feeling punished because you don't have the time (and apparently you want all cred rewards asap rather than having them as longer term goals).

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19 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

I don't think you realise that you aren't.  By adapting the game to be even quicker to complete you're making it so players like I play the game even less.  NW doesn't require any real time or skill investment and is therefor just a checklist that players like I log in for 30-60 minutes on a Monday to complete, then are back at the stage of having nothing to do and therefor not playing the game.  This is why I mentioned LCD, because in this case when referring to potential time/effort input, that's what you are.  The only way to balance this would be to have more time/effort consuming challenges available to chose (if we follow what you want about selectable challenges) that give greater amounts of rewards, but then we'd be back at the same point where you're complaining about feeling punished because you don't have the time (and apparently you want all cred rewards asap rather than having them as longer term goals).

  • I listed cred rewards as an example. Cred rewards lead to as I said potatoes, other mods and the near impossible to acquire nitain extract.
    there are other mods in the standard 1-30 reward tree which are otherwise unobtainable through the game. Can anyone get the wolf armor now?
  • There are always going to be people faster than you, I'm sure there are people who can get the set done in an hour instead of spending a monday night. Equivocally, there are people are slower, much slower.
    Are you suggesting that because you can do the rewards in one day, that it shouldn't be so that those who struggle cannot earn the same rewards to have a rewarding experience through a device that was intended to keep people playing, rather than discourage them?
  • As I have stated earlier: Personally, all I can manage is the Nightwave, I don't really have time for anything else, so I'm missing out on 90% of the content. I'm sure there are other guys who have similar problems. It's also known that forum posters also make up less than 10% of the player base (give or take). Extrapolating that data if, I'm one of the players who talks about this (and I've seen it discussed in other threads), then it must be an issue. Thus, I offer the aforementioned suggestion.
  • " where you're complaining about feeling punished because you don't have the time (and apparently you want all cred rewards asap rather than having them as longer term goals)" Or, another way to look at this is we'd be back to you complaining because other people want to be able to have the same chance at rewards as you do and enjoy the rest of the game.
    So, are you wanting to keep your pedestal of "Look at what I have and you don't! Ha ha! You can't earn this, git gud scrub!" Granted, that's an appeal to the extremes, but what you're telling me is that you want to be rewarded for being better than other players (and having more time to play) at a co-operative game.
  • Granted, I'm sure you're not able to complete all of the content you want. But you're not simply limited to this one line of content. Or, you may be and you're content with it, and that's okay too. Again, I push my point that for some people, some of these challenges can be a bit too rough and time consuming due to external factors.

Let me repeat myself:

 

A simple suggestion: Allow players to choose between challenges that are equal in difficulty but require a different skillset for the case in which players are lacking in one set of skills or another.

 

For example:

I have a very difficult time with finding the needle in the haystack. (sabotage caches, simaris, and now apothics) instead, my suggestion is to permit players to choose to do something else. Apothics are level 7k on the rep scale. How about 30 min Kuva Survival? 40 Wave Defense instead of seeking out these plants? I'm not suggesting a lowering in difficulty or a change in how fast something is completing. That is your slippery slope, not mine.

I'm glad you enjoy hunting for plant parts and that you're really good at it so much so that you can complete it in one day, but please understand, others cannot complete it in one day. More power to you bud.

Going to bed. Night.

Edited by Cerebrophage
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25 minutes ago, Dragoncroac said:

I don't know how much affect the ADHD to you or warframe in general, but for caches the answer IMO is pretty simple. Recruitment chat and get a squad to search them. You can do the main objective, and the rest of the squad search for caches.

For apothics idk what to say to you. Back in the past the Sahasa or Chesa kubrows (don't remember which of both) were able to take plants. I don't know if this still being a thing.

But you can just skip apothic missions. As said, the creds past 30 aren't worth it. For potatoes is better do the gift of the lotus alerts and/or infestations or farm relics for pl. Mods are 1 purchase each and you really don't need 80% of them. With CP, Steel Charge, Physique, Sprint Boost, Pistol Amp, Dead Eye and Shield Disruption, you are done. And being the last 4 extremely circumstantial (speed, mesa, eidolon/orb hunter and extremely high level corpus/index)

It took me half of last week in recruit chat to find a squad for Sabotage. I never did find one. I spend about 5-10 mintues looking for a squad, then move on as 10 minutes is 1/16th of my usual session. Finally, I got one clan member to help me one time for one mission, then he left. I only found one cache he found the other two. The next one was done with a rando and that took us 10 minutes on the first failed attempt (we gave up). The second attempt was locations he knew, but couldn't figure out where it was (I was looking too) the third attempt was successful. That was one day. One day for 2/3 completion of a 4500 rep bonus.

The next day I spent the day myself looking through ships. trying to find them. I would agree with you on skipping apothics if they weren't 7k. You also left out Nitain extract for the rewards table. Also, semi-new player so I don't have a lot of the things you're talking about.

After getting all of the other objectives done, I was able to finish the caches on the last day of the week.

Edited by Cerebrophage
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2 hours ago, Cerebrophage said:

>.> DE, I get you want to make it so people play your game longer.

Not only do I have ADHD, I have very limited time to play 

I also have very limited time, i can only play 1,5 hour these days, and yet i finished the challenge in 1 hour, while also completing 3 relics, and cold damage kills challenge. 

Farming the plants is easy once you have simaris scanner with its widgets. And then i simply LF silver grove squad. 

Youre basically complain for something that is already trivial for most players. 

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6 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

This is still dumb.

Make Nw easier just cause ADHD exists baiscally.

Why not make the game play it self because there ppl with no arms?

Ah, still making an appeal to the extremes I see, this is a poor argument.for many reasons.

ADHD is not the only issue where "Find the Needle" is a problem. There are people who don't have all the time in the world to find the needle in the haystack simply because their schedule doesn't allow it.

 

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2 minutes ago, Cerebrophage said:

Ah, still making an appeal to the extremes I see, this is a poor argument.for many reasons.

ADHD is not the only issue where "Find the Needle" is a problem. There are people who don't have all the time in the world to find the needle in the haystack simply because their schedule doesn't allow it.

 

Then don't search for the needle? Skip the challenge, there's plenty of time and standing left.

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48 minutes ago, Cerebrophage said:

I would, if the Apothic quest wasn't 7k. I can't ignore 7k, it's far too detrimental of a loss to be considered an option. Others have expressed similar distaste for this Scenario to complete.

Yes you can. Many of us can. I personally left out a bunch of tasks and I still reached rank 40. 

I didn't do dailies much, left out at least two weaklies and at least one elite every week.

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20 hours ago, Cerebrophage said:

"I do not ask for a lowering in difficulty. But perhaps, the ability to choose your objectives, rather than be given a static set that you must fulfill? I think the ability to choose would be more engaging for players and offer a more rounded experience for a larger number of players."

 

actually, this ability will make a large amount of players choose easy objectives (capture, exterminate, kill x enemies)

what you are directly asking is for a difficulty change, but (beating around the bush) not considering other people that would take advantage/abuse this.

if you dont have time or find is difficult to make time, then dont do it, yes you may lose out, but that will not in any way affect your life.
do what you can and do what makes you happy.
take it from me who has spent over 15 years playing games and been through situations where they have made me lose my job from me not sleeping properly and timing my life around them.

yes the apothic challenge is annoying with the day/night times, just try do what you can, collect what you can and wait until the next time you can collect the rest.
do not put yourself out or expect the game to change according to your own schedule or satisfaction (everyone has their own).

20 hours ago, Cerebrophage said:

Believe me, I've been through many games and Warframe is the ONLY game that is Multiplayer that has exactly what I need.

 


based on your own comments, either it doesnt have what you "need" (which is actually, "want" not "need"), or you need to re-evaluate what you want in a game.
is what you get out of the game worth sacrificing the frustrating/inconvenient things?

either way, if you dont have time for the game or objectives/challenges, then dont expect the game to be adjusted to your schedule, as your schedule is not the same as mine or anyone elses, but you dont see us complaining about it.

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6 hours ago, 5p33dy_01 said:
  1. as for the topic, actually, this ability will make a large amount of players choose easy objectives (capture, exterminate, kill x enemies)
  2. what you are directly asking is for a difficulty change, but (beating around the bush) not considering other people that would take advantage/abuse this.
  3. if you dont have time or find is difficult to make time, then dont do it, yes you may lose out, but that will not in any way affect your life. do what you can and do what makes you happy.
  4. take it from me who has spent over 15 years playing games and been through situations where they have made me lose my job from me not sleeping properly and timing my life around them.
  5. yes the apothic challenge is annoying with the day/night times, just try do what you can, collect what you can and wait until the next time you can collect the rest. do not put yourself out or expect the game to change according to your own schedule or satisfaction (everyone has their own).
  6. based on your own comments, either it doesnt have what you "need" (which is actually, "want" not "need"), or you need to re-evaluate what you want in a game. is what you get out of the game worth sacrificing the frustrating/inconvenient things?
  7. either way, if you dont have time for the game or objectives/challenges, then dont expect the game to be adjusted to your schedule, as your schedule is not the same as mine or anyone elses, but you dont see us complaining about it.
  1. I don't understand how if you group the same kind of objectives with eachother (as with the second solution stated in the OP) how this could make objectives easier or not. The difference between apothic and salvage missions  is that you can farm ahead of time for apothics so they're relatively easy. For those with extra time on their hands, I think this would constitute the easier objective, not the other way around. Perhaps you should review the second solution again?
  2. While not a strong argument one way or the other, fear of abuse is not a good reason not to do something. Going beyond that, how could this be abused? I'm unclear as to how achieving objectives can be abused or taken advantage of. I mean, people take advantage of a Smeeta/Booster/Nekros combo to maximize their resource income, when it's been said that resources are used to 'Gate' the players. I fail to see how this is an abuse. So, what's wrong with taking advantage of something?
  3. We're not talking about my life, nor are we making this about me, the individual. We're talking about players who suffer similar conditions to what I do, as they do exist. Within the context of what I am going through, this does make me happy. This game is my release and I look forward to it every day. I am sure others do as well.
  4. I've also been playing for 15+ years and have had it affect my life. I've gone from playing 8+ hours a day to where I am now reaching between 2-4 hours a day. You're preaching to the choir here.
  5. Many players have voiced the schedule mechanic as a problem with the Earth mission base as they don't match the plains of Eidolon and there's no way to find out, in-game, what time of day it is without having to go to a mission and abort it if it's not the right time of day. To put it kindly and as lightly as possible, that's a nuisance. Then, there's the issue of finding the plants you need. Granted, threshcones are common, but some of the other plants aren't. Example, the Moss that grows on Grineer asteroid tilesets. Near impossible to find for people with vision/ADHD problems. Just asking for an alternative.
  6. The way you phrased this is a little confusing, so admittedly, I'm a little lost. So, I'll repeat what I said with more detail. No one NEEDS this game to function as an individual. (I think that's what you're trying to say.) No one NEEDS this game design to be reworked to enjoy Warframe. However, for some, in order to have a rewarding and enjoyable experience within the game Design of Nightwave, improvements NEED to be made to reach an even greater audience. Such as those with time constraints and other isues.
  7. You're, again, making this about an individual. This is not about an individual, this is about a demographic of players who experience difficulty with objectives due to time constraints and/or mental illnesses that cannot complete big-ticket reward objectives such as this apothic quest. In an attempt to reach completion, they're missing out on the rest of the content that is Warframe.
    8a. Let's not forget that this week there were Simaris Scans, Sabotage Caches to find AND apothics all in the same week.
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6 hours ago, Cerebrophage said:
  1. I don't understand how if you group the same kind of objectives with eachother (as with the second solution stated in the OP) how this could make objectives easier or not. The difference between apothic and salvage missions  is that you can farm ahead of time for apothics so they're relatively easy. For those with extra time on their hands, I think this would constitute the easier objective, not the other way around. Perhaps you should review the second solution again?
  2. While not a strong argument one way or the other, fear of abuse is not a good reason not to do something. Going beyond that, how could this be abused? I'm unclear as to how achieving objectives can be abused or taken advantage of. I mean, people take advantage of a Smeeta/Booster/Nekros combo to maximize their resource income, when it's been said that resources are used to 'Gate' the players. I fail to see how this is an abuse. So, what's wrong with taking advantage of something?
  3. We're not talking about my life, nor are we making this about me, the individual. We're talking about players who suffer similar conditions to what I do, as they do exist. Within the context of what I am going through, this does make me happy. This game is my release and I look forward to it every day. I am sure others do as well.
  4. I've also been playing for 15+ years and have had it affect my life. I've gone from playing 8+ hours a day to where I am now reaching between 2-4 hours a day. You're preaching to the choir here.
  5. Many players have voiced the schedule mechanic as a problem with the Earth mission base as they don't match the plains of Eidolon and there's no way to find out, in-game, what time of day it is without having to go to a mission and abort it if it's not the right time of day. To put it kindly and as lightly as possible, that's a nuisance. Then, there's the issue of finding the plants you need. Granted, threshcones are common, but some of the other plants aren't. Example, the Moss that grows on Grineer asteroid tilesets. Near impossible to find for people with vision/ADHD problems. Just asking for an alternative.
  6. The way you phrased this is a little confusing, so admittedly, I'm a little lost. So, I'll repeat what I said with more detail. No one NEEDS this game to function as an individual. (I think that's what you're trying to say.) No one NEEDS this game design to be reworked to enjoy Warframe. However, for some, in order to have a rewarding and enjoyable experience within the game Design of Nightwave, improvements NEED to be made to reach an even greater audience. Such as those with time constraints and other isues.
  7. You're, again, making this about an individual. This is not about an individual, this is about a demographic of players who experience difficulty with objectives due to time constraints and/or mental illnesses that cannot complete big-ticket reward objectives such as this apothic quest. In an attempt to reach completion, they're missing out on the rest of the content that is Warframe.
    8a. Let's not forget that this week there were Simaris Scans, Sabotage Caches to find AND apothics all in the same week.

since im very sure your problem wont be fixed any time soon (if ever).
you can also look for the fastest way to finish the challenges.
https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Apothic#Twilight
Twilight being the fastest, since you only need night time but  Moonlight Jadeleaf being rare is the only real down side, everything else is any time.
have a quick look at the Earth time https://hub.warframestat.us
as for the missions for caches or apothic ingredients Earth, cervantes, is a great place for both, its small and very low level enemies.

now for the other parts
1) stacking challenges will make you complete the list faster, which makes it easier.

2) its not about fear, its about going against the design. yes you can abuse Smeeta/Booster/Nekros combo to maximize resource income, but i think thats more on DE thinking its ok, or not bothering to adjust it. keep in-mind that they did recently patch double dipping with nekros/hydroid/khora.

3) we are talking about you as an individual as well as every other individual with the same conditions, i dont think its a majority, or there would be complaints a lot more often.

4) so you should understand by now, that games dont revolve around your specific conditions.

5) yes they have, and yet, nothing has been done to rectify it.

6) my point was that it doesn't have what you need, if you are having problems with it. weigh pro's and con's, then decide if you can tolerate the con's for the enjoyment of the pro's. if your condition prevents you from enjoying the game (or part of the game) maybe you shouldnt be playing it.

7) im not making it about a single individual, its about all the individuals that fall into your specific situation. you have 7 days to complete the challenges, based on the quantity and reward, they are not intended to be finished in 1 day... if you choose to do so, that is your choice... if you only have 1 day in your play time, maybe you shouldnt expect the game to adhere to that.

8a) all possible in 4.5 hours, either at once or DEFINITELY over 7 days. also dont forget that weekly quests have catch-up, if you dont finish them in 1 week, maybe you will the next week.

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