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Avienas

So Felt like dropping a thread to trigger the `meta` tridolon hunter norm with a interesting setup idea

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Because the Saint update basically made bows alot better & Daikyu is now the new go-to for smacking eidolons. I decided to revisit the fun of math that started when i saw using Oberon is way more useful then Harrow, especially with the smite infusion buff, Then further degraded once Wisp came around. Hope some of ya enjoy taking ideas from it.

First, Start off with a Oberon, Wisp, Nidus & Volt. Have all 4 stack power donation aura to achieve +60% power str for each of them (since they cancel out the detriment of each other).

  • A power str with 50~ duration on motes, setup wisp should have roughly 293% power str, 353% after power donation
  • A power str nidus would have roughly 348% power str with roughly 408% after power donation.
  • Volt gives zero care on power str anyway so he gets a free pass
  • The Goat tends to be more efficient with 128 dura/130 eff/100 range/199% power str. But basically goes up to 259% power str due to 4 power donation stack.

Nidus basically will give out +102% power str with his `sharing` on parasitic link, you can pretty much get the idea already where this is going.

  1. Nidus links to Wisp and she deploys her motes. Result is her having 455% power str meaning those motes basically give out:
    • Health Motes: 1365 bonus health, 136.5 health regen/second
    • Haste Motes: 91% move speed buff & 136.5% fire speed (literally lanka & bow users could skip fire rate mods with that kind of buff)
    • Did i forget to repeat if using a similar setup to how i whipped it up, you still have room for duration mods for roughly 172% power duration or wisps last 51.45 seconds still?
  2. After motes made, wisp links to Oberon bringing it from 259% to 361%
    • First obvious one makes oberon`s smite infusion (which setup suggested above means a 51 second long, 15 meter AoE radiation buff), well it jacks up to 361% bonus radiation damage
    • But wait! There`s more! Renewal`s initial heal goes from 125 to 451.25, heal/second goes from 40 base to 144.4 and armor buff from base 200 to 722. 

 

Now before anyone asks this sounds very complicated. This basically lets the Nidus & wisp do whatever they want aka Void Strike charge, let all warframes be limb busters, make every frame REALLY tankie before you bring Adaptation, Steel Fiber, Vitality, Arcane Guardian and what not into the mix. Plus have everyone able to run rather efficient setups (nidus only has to really just run to camps and grab a few stacks, which is easy with larva and could just slap on stretch to solve some range issues, cunning drift if one wanted extra safety). Probably the only major stretch people have to do is use power donation instead of amps, which the nidus buff & oberon smite infusion buff will likely give more of an effect then Dead eye Aura can, especially when it ups survivability too.

Plus you do not really need to use Nidus, could just run another damage buffer like Rhino, Octavia (seriously Octavia would LOVE this setup), etc. Well, if i got any of that math incorrect, feel free to correct me, but i still think this can be a rather fun setup for me to try with clannies and i am sure others might enjoy it, over dealing with short duration harrows, chromas constantly devouring pancakes, them needing to pay attention to duration often to recast or waste time re-buffing their damage buff. Seriously this makes me wish Volt was not so necessary for shield part so things can even get more silly with the setups.

Hope some of you enjoy using this as a base to run more wacky ways to deal with eidolons.~

 

Small P.S.: Honestly you can just have only the Volt run Power Donation if you do not care about everyone getting +60% power str and only the other 3 frames getting +30% instead.

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12 minutes ago, Pooroldude said:

Too much setup bruh

Not really different from Volts having to have a brain on WHERE to put up shields, Chromas paying attention when to recast vex armor. Trinities knowing when to heal (and likely to not mess up chroma damage buffing) & harrows not being dead when they need to cast 4th skill to block the screams, which honestly oberon does better since grass can persist, block status ailments from shock & hydrolyst bubble bombs.

Plus again it gives the benefit that everyone can pretty much quick break a limb using the right gun and they should not be constantly dying to it and its not like you need the power donations or Nidus, it just lets you scale it up so high that everyone should have no excuse dying unless they do not have the wisp buffs up and been standing in a gantalyst laser pillar for more then a few seconds or just did not stack any vitality/armor mods or arcane guardian, which seems to be a thing that happens alot in public tri dolon sessions.

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Too much setup.

It might be fun trying to pull all that off, but it isn't as efficient as the current meta, so almost no one is gonna bother.

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This looks like alot of funneling if anything is more strict then the current meta where you can swap out frames if they can fill a role good enough 

I’ll try to compare it to this 

Chroma: DPS

volt: DPS 

trinity: lure healer

harrow: eidolon scream shield 

 

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Just now, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

This looks like alot of funneling if anything is more strict then the current meta where you can swap out frames if they can fill a role good enough 

Only real funneling part is Oberon & Wisp. Mainly to have former replace Chroma & partially Trinity and Harrow since blessing can heal lures and weed field kills statuses, Latter just to take up Trinity`s spot and let everyone have such a huge health bonus & regen that if they actually kept some survivability mods on, they should not be getting downed by practically anything. Would not be amazed if Wisp health mote combined with Adaptation would just let you outright heal thru gantalyst pillars.

Power Donation was partially because i see people rarely use it, despite it also giving 9 base capacity, where frames like Chroma want to use Steel Charge to cram those umbral-like setups & maximum power str builds.

Volt is just the mandatory, only used because his shields is the only thing that can buff shields since Odonata energy shell is not so useful garbo, despite also working on operator shots.

Nidus can honestly just be replaced with any kind of damage buffer since a power str wisp already gives a huge amount of health/regen/fire rate on its motes, but bringing him in just lets things get even more silly, especially since resevoirs do not de-spawn, nor do they lose the parasitic link (atleast based on what a clan member told me) buff, after they have been laid on the ground.

The main bit of this thread is how Chroma, Harrow & Trinity are used as the constant `meta` for tridolon hunting, despite Harrow & Trinity do not contribute much besides the former just being used to block screams and the latter to keep lures alive, otherwise they are usually not expected to do much beyond those.

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Ok so here what I read

Nidus: main DPS

Volt: DPS support

Wisp: DPS support

oberon: Lure healer + shielder

Focuses more on team survivability 

Replace nidus with chroma to allow volt to add to the dps via his passive 

wisp serves as to augment weapon speed and survivability 

oberon a good pick for both shields and healing lures but loses on the crit buff from harrow and trinity’s DR from blessing to protect lures from burst

this still proves the power of the original meta however focus on Chroma, Volt, Oberon, wildcard composition Due to oberon being able to fit both roles and you might find a way to make up for the oberon switch

 

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40 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Not really different from Volts having to have a brain on WHERE to put up shields, Chromas paying attention when to recast vex armor. Trinities knowing when to heal (and likely to not mess up chroma damage buffing) & harrows not being dead when they need to cast 4th skill to block the screams, which honestly oberon does better since grass can persist, block status ailments from shock & hydrolyst bubble bombs.

The difference is that your proposed setup is a LOT of work and requires interactive timings between other players.

I main Volt for those hunts. I don't pay much attention to where I put shields. I just plop them down in a place that looks good, and if people *@##$, I cast another one. No real thought needed. Keep in mind that *I* shoot through those shields too, so I just pick a spot I would shoot from. Maybe 2-4 spots in quick succession.

Chroma paying attention for Vex Armor? That's not complicated. Have you never played an MMO with hardcore raiding? You're just tracking ONE damn buff.

Trinity: when to heal? Again, not hard. If anything, a good Trinity can keep their heal up indefinitely.

Harrow: The point to Harrow's ult is NOT just blocking damage, but also the HUGE boost to crit it provides afterwards. It's better than Oberone's because for his to work the rest of the group has to notice where you put it down and specifically stand there - which is NOT good for acid rain. Harrow's just a cast-and-forget at the right time.

 

Note: I think what you propose could work, just not as efficiently, and with a LOT more setup from the group.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

Ok so here what I read

Nidus: main DPS

Volt: DPS support

Wisp: DPS support

oberon: Lure healer + shielder

Focuses on team survivability 

Replace nidus with chroma to allow volt to add to the dps via his passive 

wisp serves as to augment weapon speed and survivability 

oberon a good pick for both shields and healing lures but loses on the crit buff from harrow and trinity’s DR from blessing to protect lures from burst

this still proves the power of the original meta however focus on Chroma, Volt, Oberon, wildcard composition Due to oberon being able to fit both roles and you might find a way to make up for the oberon switch

 

Ultimately it lets Wisp & Nidus able to freely work. Since its not like the Nidus needs to link to the Oberon constantly, just when they want to recast smite infusion or to buff blessing (which already with those stats, should be more then sufficient). Though with a 50~ meter link range, he should not need to recast it that much.

  • Wisp & Nidus basically can void strike charge or fetch more lures, since they do not need to baby-sit like Harrow or Trinity does for when limbs break & lures need healing, since Oberon is covering all of it.
  • Goatman might need to care a bit more on pancakes, but least he is the only one who would likely be concerned if he has to `spam`. abilities, when others keep dying, which is resolved by the Wisp giving everyone enough health/regen to live thru almost anything in the eidolon fights
  • Volt shield if i recall does not add much at all besides the 2x crit damage since the electric bonus is rather meh.
  • Most Chromas will not spec for range to play buffer, plus they tend to run around 20~35 duration, normally to reach that maximum power str and skip out on primed flow, efficiency & duration to have better length, meaning more pancake hungry upkeep, least Oberon smite infusion buffer can apply to everyone and already has a base of 40 duration.

Main reason i see Harrow & Trinity used so much is because they only do one simple nichie together. Plus how often do you even see a Harrow providing long duration 2nd & 4th buffs? Usually they have to run negative duration to recast spam the 4th since they cannot recast the invincibility during the crit buff, which is completely useless when the shield needs to be taken down first. 

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3 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Volt shield if i recall does not add much at all besides the 2x crit damage since the electric bonus is rather meh.

It's huge for the Amps. It's literally the only Warframe ability that boosts Amp damage.

Also: You keep mentioning the pancakes.

This is another reason Trinity is in the meta. She can turn the Voms into energy pancakes for the group and keep it permanently topped up.

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3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

It's huge for the Amps. It's literally the only Warframe ability that boosts Amp damage.

Chroma runs unairu wisp to help volt destroy shields and volt uses his shields to help chroma destroy limbs efficient funneling 

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3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

The difference is that your proposed setup is a LOT of work and requires interactive timings between other players.

To dumb it down, High power str Nidus & Wisp, Power Donation on Volt, efficiently designed setup on oberon (199% power str with rather even stats). Nidus can honestly skip on buffing the wisp reservoirs and just straight up stick with the oberon to constantly parasitic link with him. End results might be slightly lower but still results in a much more easy to survive setup.

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

I main Volt for those hunts. I don't pay much attention to where I put shields. I just plop them down in a place that looks good, and if people *@##$, I cast another one. No real thought needed. Keep in mind that *I* shoot through those shields too, so I just pick a spot I would shoot from. Maybe 2-4 spots in quick succession.

Good volts know where to place shields of course, but again, i sometimes ran into people more then a couple of times who think they only place shields AFTER the eidolon shields go down. Which pretty much begs the question on why bring a volt if a rhino would suffice better if they are not gonna put down shields for amp shots.

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Chroma paying attention for Vex Armor? That's not complicated. Have you never played an MMO with hardcore raiding? You're just tracking ONE damn buff.

You be amazed at how often i end up seeing chromas falling to the ground, but that might be since i do not try to only recruit people with 500+ capture counts.

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Trinity: when to heal? Again, not hard. If anything, a good Trinity can keep their heal up indefinitely.

Harrow: The point to Harrow's ult is NOT just blocking damage, but also the HUGE boost to crit it provides afterwards. It's better than Oberone's because for his to work the rest of the group has to notice where you put it down and specifically stand there - which is NOT good for acid rain. Harrow's just a cast-and-forget at the right time.

When i used to actively hunt, people always demanded 100% or slightly less power duration on Harrow which leads to protection only lasting between 5~6 seconds, and the retaliation buff for 11~12. Less you got 2 to 3 people primed with void strikes to instant down the shields, that is usually not long enough to rip shields apart to then take advantage of the +50% or so crit chance buff.

Plus Oberons can always color their grass a nice Orange color or so, that way people can see the giant Messiah-level weed they need to run to like they are trying to get to the choppa.

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Note: I think what you propose could work, just not as efficiently, and with a LOT more setup from the group.

Maybe i accidently came off as trying to make it sound like a `better` setup then the `meta`. But its more of a way of me sharing the fun of getting nuts with math on how silly you can get with a build, that can likely be done with significantly less issue but should over-all result in being alot more public proof. Especially with Mod-links will likely make the 300+ required kill-counters require more exact builds, so recruit chat for hydrolyst recruiting will likely get more specific on what people should bring for the don-hunts.

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Just now, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

Chroma runs unairu wisp to help volt destroy shields and volt uses his shields to help chroma destroy limbs efficient funneling 

Likely plenty of people do not even know or care about Unairu wisp since it can be rather frustrating to proc(namely since void blasting an eidolon even with the range bonus waybound likes to be inconsistent) and does not usually give a nice HUD icon or a Ping noise to tell you that one of them spawned, at least whenever i tried to use it to very annoying-some results.

Though honestly, if we start bringing OPERATOR skills full-on into this talk, then things start getting silly. Madurai`s void strike is used often (or at the very least i like to believe) because you can passively charge it between each eidolon, during its screams & when your amp`s energy recovering, etc. Pretty much less of a hassle to get it ready, unless you are running a party comp that KNOWS what they are doing to turn it from a hunt into a glorified dance of clockwork genocide.

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Some people don't understand that during Eidolon the only real problem is  to take down the shields. To shot the limbs you can use whatever you want...

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18 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

It's huge for the Amps. It's literally the only Warframe ability that boosts Amp damage.

Also: You keep mentioning the pancakes.

This is another reason Trinity is in the meta. She can turn the Voms into energy pancakes for the group and keep it permanently topped up.

Honestly i was still under the impression that Trinity could not use her 2 on those things still. Though again, energy pancakes are only necessary if someone has to spam abilities because someone keeps dying or they do not run any duration/efficiency when they need some to up-keep their own effects.

Still, you can easily replace the Nidus to bring back Trinity if you want them on healing & energy providing duty. Oberon still basically can do Chroma & Harrow`s job, since when you reach the point of just instant breaking limbs, not much point caring about needing more damage then that, if it results in someone needing to scarf down more pancakes *shot*.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

oberon a good pick for both shields and healing lures but loses on the crit buff from harrow and trinity’s DR from blessing to protect lures from burst

 

Oberon with a strength build (IE the standard renewal build) gives more damage (amusing you are using the lanka) than harow's buff does

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1 hour ago, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

This looks like alot of funneling if anything is more strict then the current meta where you can swap out frames if they can fill a role good enough 

I'd be interested in hearing if this is actually the case -- I've encountered hordes of people telling me my oberon was 'unnecessary' and that I should bring trin, or harrow, or chroma, or volt. It's raids all over again, where you can run whatever you want if you know what you're doing... if you can ever find a group who'll let you. It's kinda turned me off eidolon hunts altogether, and since I haven't hunted in a month or so, it might be different now. But I don't see how it would have changed, since raids were that way for just about the entire time they've existed, and eidolon hunts got the same treatment as soon as arcanes were introduced into their loot pool.

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This looks fun. I don't really like the current meta; it is effective but so boring. I'll try anything new just to breath some excitement back into this fight.

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1 hour ago, Avienas said:

Ultimately it lets Wisp & Nidus able to freely work. Since its not like the Nidus needs to link to the Oberon constantly, just when they want to recast smite infusion or to buff blessing (which already with those stats, should be more then sufficient). Though with a 50~ meter link range, he should not need to recast it that much.

  • Wisp & Nidus basically can void strike charge or fetch more lures, since they do not need to baby-sit like Harrow or Trinity does for when limbs break & lures need healing, since Oberon is covering all of it.
  • Goatman might need to care a bit more on pancakes, but least he is the only one who would likely be concerned if he has to `spam`. abilities, when others keep dying, which is resolved by the Wisp giving everyone enough health/regen to live thru almost anything in the eidolon fights
  • Volt shield if i recall does not add much at all besides the 2x crit damage since the electric bonus is rather meh.
  • Most Chromas will not spec for range to play buffer, plus they tend to run around 20~35 duration, normally to reach that maximum power str and skip out on primed flow, efficiency & duration to have better length, meaning more pancake hungry upkeep, least Oberon smite infusion buffer can apply to everyone and already has a base of 40 duration.

Main reason i see Harrow & Trinity used so much is because they only do one simple nichie together. Plus how often do you even see a Harrow providing long duration 2nd & 4th buffs? Usually they have to run negative duration to recast spam the 4th since they cannot recast the invincibility during the crit buff, which is completely useless when the shield needs to be taken down first. 

I think that chroma will be popping limbs in a matter of a second, so nobody needs to help him and therefore he can have as low range as he can.

In coordinated groups shields are taken down very fast, so the crit buff duration is enough. Sometimes even with negative str you can see that after popping the limb, you still have 1s left on your covenant. Its this fast. 

 

Oh and volt shields stack for dmg and electricity for frame up to 6 shields.Only operator is affected by one shield only.

 

Its ok that you want to try something new. Its all about having fun. 

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21 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

I'd be interested in hearing if this is actually the case -- I've encountered hordes of people telling me my oberon was 'unnecessary' and that I should bring trin, or harrow, or chroma, or volt. It's raids all over again, where you can run whatever you want if you know what you're doing... if you can ever find a group who'll let you. It's kinda turned me off eidolon hunts altogether, and since I haven't hunted in a month or so, it might be different now. But I don't see how it would have changed, since raids were that way for just about the entire time they've existed, and eidolon hunts got the same treatment as soon as arcanes were introduced into their loot pool.

Meta is meta but hey maybe Someday harrow and trinity can be replaced by oberon and some other frame 

I haven’t done eidolons in a long time either 

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Basically since oberon can do heal lures and shield from screams you can replace harrow and trinity experiment with different 4th frames until that composition becomes the new meta

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2 hours ago, Avienas said:

Maybe i accidently came off as trying to make it sound like a `better` setup then the `meta`. But its more of a way of me sharing the fun of getting nuts with math on how silly you can get with a build, that can likely be done with significantly less issue but should over-all result in being alot more public proof. Especially with Mod-links will likely make the 300+ required kill-counters require more exact builds, so recruit chat for hydrolyst recruiting will likely get more specific on what people should bring for the don-hunts.

In general, this does sound like an interesting method. The meta is what it is because it's efficient, not because it's required.

There's numerous frames capable of doing similar jobs. I once saw an Equinox keep the lures alive. Dunno how, but it worked, and we got the x3 capture.

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

You be amazed at how often i end up seeing chromas falling to the ground, but that might be since i do not try to only recruit people with 500+ capture counts.

Oh I probably barely have a hundred (though now that my Madurai is maxed, I should check my count, as I have no real idea how many I've done). I really only do one hunt in a night at all as I don't have the patience to go with an edgy premade group desperate to be as perfect as possible. I just go Public and head out, and do my best to carry the group if its a bad one. Usually works, so long as someone keeps the lures alive.

Personally, I don't even run Unairu Wisp Chroma. I run Madurai Void Strike and go Volt. I've tried Pub hunts with Chroma before, and it didn't feel as effective as using Volt.

*BUT* - Keeping an eye on Vex Armor isn't difficult. Maybe I just have too much duration, relative to the 5-cap hunter builds.

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