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DrakeWurrum

Nightwave Series 2 so far...

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10 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

Kinda makes a mockery of exclusive rewards if there's no challenge involved.

 

They are exclusive in the sense that if you miss out on playing/finishing the battle pass, you have no way of knowing when DE will put the rewards back in. Battle passes are about milking time/engagement from players so making them too challenging for a portion of players would discourage them from engaging with it.

But that's also Warframe's problem with not having any true exclusives. If you don't feel like grinding time limited stuff, chances are, the rewards will get awarded to you anyway at a later date and often through easier means (like Baro).

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On 2019-09-13 at 9:14 AM, Birk.Borkason said:

I don´t like the whole battle pass system. It still feels like work. Having 3-5 Missions in a row to get something specific, no problem. But weeks of fulfilling things you don´t like to do to earn (!)  something like Umbra Forma is not motivating. I was playing since February this year and almost every day. I am taking a break now. At least.

 

If you want people to play a lot and on a regular basis, just give them bonus items for time played, xp, or logins/month so they can do what they want in the game. And go back to alerts, so you can get everything without it (sure you have to be lucky sometimes, but those are happy moments - not this endless "I have to, I have to...").

Exactly!

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16 minutes ago, wargthewarg said:

I decided not to bother with S2 since it was pretty obvious we weren't going to be getting a decent update in the game for a long time. I'm at rank 14 or something. I find more and more of the challenges pointing me towards content I have no interest in playing.

 

So I've just not been playing the game much, just checking the forums to see if something new gets added.

 

Nightwave isn't hard and shouldn't be since it's a battle pass for all players. It's just very tedious.

Without alerts the game its now very tedious...warframe needs more random things than fixed things. Both can exist.

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4 hours ago, Luciole77 said:

But I still have the thought and the conviction that the alerts should go back to their original model and that they can perfectly co-exist with the NW. It was a mistake for me to remove the contents of the alerts.

I fully disagree with this. There was nothing about Alerts worth keeping. Nightwave is flawed, but Alerts were 100% worthless. I haven't done them in years because I got all the Alert rewards I could possibly care about (minus Gift of the Lotus, which they did keep around), but I actively work on Nightwave.

4 hours ago, wargthewarg said:

Nightwave isn't hard and shouldn't be since it's a battle pass for all players. It's just very tedious.

Yeah, that's the main problem with Nightwave. It seems like DE is trying to work on making it less tedious and instead actually engaging, but IMO, they're missing the one flaw: that it's Standing based.

If each Act rewarded something useful on its own (instead of or in addition to Standing), or even if each Act rewarded the Cred currency, and the Cred was how we got those rewards, that would likely feel a lot less tedious.

4 hours ago, wargthewarg said:

But that's also Warframe's problem with not having any true exclusives. If you don't feel like grinding time limited stuff, chances are, the rewards will get awarded to you anyway at a later date and often through easier means (like Baro).

That's definitely a sore topic for Warframe in general. Gamers love it when things are exclusive. It gives us something to work for, and then it sets us "above" the rest, feeding our ego and sense of accomplishment.

But then the rest of the gamers that miss out will get a feeling of envy and missing out, and will start demanding that it shouldn't be exclusive, because they want it too. It can be very frustrating to feel like you missed out on something awesome, and nobody wants to feel left out. That's not a cooperative mindset, either.

It's not an easy thing to solve, I think. But I do feel like it's wrong to NOT make things easier/possible to acquire at a later date, when it's less meaningful. A sense of entitlement is not a healthy argument against that.

I don't think it's in Warframe's theme to ever let anything be truly exclusive... Except for the Founder's rewards.

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On 2019-09-10 at 11:36 AM, DrakeWurrum said:

As I haven't really been lurking the forums too often, I'd like to ask: Are you still complaining about Nightwave? About the grind being too demanding for you? Being too time-consuming? Have you reached rank 30, or are you struggling to do so? Do the Zealot spawns and Emissary Derelicts help alleviate that stress some?

Are there specific Acts that you still just LOATHE ENTIRELY?

I personally hate the Silver Grove one. None of the others bother me half as much as that one. It's not hard, it's just... such a chore. I want to be done with that quest, but Nightwave keeps sending me back. There are other Acts that I can't stand, but that one bothers me the most.

The Ayatan one is annoying, because I want to turn in my Ayatans for standing, because I actually need the Endo atm, but now instead I hoard unsocketed sculptures... just in case.

on one side of the spectrum, I see it as a fairly good learning tool for new players to discover all sorts of stuff in warframe (that they realize some are locked behind progression). But as an MR27, everything's pretty much done and maxed out, nightwave is more or less just extra chores that I feel like I have to do every week because I have no clue whether the rewards will be back again. Yes sure, DE might say that it might be back eventually, but how soon is "eventually" and what will we have to do to get those rewards? (Remember Zylok from rebuilding earth relay event? that took months to appear in Baro's stock).

The challenges I hate are the ones that are either RNG heavy (i.e. mining rare gems) or like you said, the ayatan one. I get sculptures every now and then and my habit is to slot them and turn them into endo but I can't because there's a chance I slot them then next week is the ayatan challenge and I gotta shell out plat to get them again (Ayr's are getting expensive these days). 

The 3x forma challenge as well. I'm just wasting forma at this point. The stuff I use, I've already forma-ed enough times to fit my build. Why do I have to either farm up forma blueprints and bake some formas or shell out 35p just to finish 1 nw challenge? Or when new weapons come out and I want to forma them, I have to consider if I can or not. What if I forma and put the build on this week, then next week there's the forma challenge? Guess I'm now out of forma and need to cough up 35p again.

-- Now one might ask "but surely you have plat to spare?" Maybe, yes, but I don't like wasting hard-earned plat on stuff I don't really want to waste on. 

The caches challenge too, but not for the same reasons as the previous ones I listed. Its that I have to spend hours to complete it (and yes I do run max loot detector + catabomb limbo). If I run solo, it works like it do. If I run with a squad, those people just sit there and leech until I find all 3 caches (literally, click M to open the bigger map and see 3 of them just idling at somewhere). I'm sick of it.

For me, what it comes down to is this: I want some quick and simple challenges to complete each week (kill X enemies with Y dmg type, sure I can finish that in a few minutes). I work a job and have college classes which take up a large chunk of my daily time. I don't want NW feeling like another set of chores to do, locking time-limited rewards behind a time consuming grind. 

-- 

So far, the only feedback I heard from NW-likers is "its not a big deal, you should just be quiet and do it". See, that's not really the point. A game is a game because it is enjoyable, not when it becomes a new set of chores.

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6 minutes ago, -CM-Schnitzel said:

nightwave is more or less just extra chores that I feel like I have to do every week because I have no clue whether the rewards will be back again.

Eh, I'll be honest, this particular Series, unless it was a Syndicate or Sortie challenge, I did them all on Sunday in an afternoon of pure Warframe. Or sometimes Saturday. And even then, I only did the challenges I felt like doing. I reached 30 a while ago, even with skipping challenges each week.

With the fact that Acts can be "recovered" - I no longer felt any particular pressure to get them done.

6 minutes ago, -CM-Schnitzel said:

The caches challenge too, but not for the same reasons as the previous ones I listed. Its that I have to spend hours to complete it (and yes I do run max loot detector + catabomb limbo). If I run solo, it works like it do. If I run with a squad, those people just sit there and leech until I find all 3 caches (literally, click M to open the bigger map and see 3 of them just idling at somewhere). I'm sick of it.

Yeah, that challenge is annoying. I dunno about spending hours to complete it, maybe like half an hour, but it was still such a chore to be forced to explore the whole map.

I even got a Xiphos part when I did the last one. I bought the Xiphos for plat because I couldn't be bothered with that low drop rate. 😐

I think I'd hate it less if we only had to do it once, but they want us to do it THREE times?!

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I love warframe (my favorite game), But Riven mods and Nightwaves are hurting me hard. I log in... oh... 2 days to complete the quests... def 20waves... 6 gems.... ok...done... burned out... bye...  

The system is Ok, but they need to remove the "performe a game challenge" and replace with bounties, mini quests, collect resources for some dude...

Like a Guild Quest of some RPG game. 

"Hey, we need to defeat the wolf... he is hidding... we need a new thing to track his location. Go collect some things....  Now we need to create a weapon, collect the parts..."

 

Something like that...more cool, more co-op.

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3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Eh, I'll be honest, this particular Series, unless it was a Syndicate or Sortie challenge, I did them all on Sunday in an afternoon of pure Warframe. Or sometimes Saturday. And even then, I only did the challenges I felt like doing. I reached 30 a while ago, even with skipping challenges each week.

With the fact that Acts can be "recovered" - I no longer felt any particular pressure to get them done.

Yeah, that challenge is annoying. I dunno about spending hours to complete it, maybe like half an hour, but it was still such a chore to be forced to explore the whole map.

I even got a Xiphos part when I did the last one. I bought the Xiphos for plat because I couldn't be bothered with that low drop rate. 😐

I think I'd hate it less if we only had to do it once, but they want us to do it THREE times?!

Yea, the recovered acts is nice, but I'm a bit of a completion-ist. I don't like having the reminder constantly on my mind. If I can, I want to finish something as soon as possible.

And the hours part, on a good run, it might take no more than 20mins max, but when RNG is a pain, I only find 1 or 2 caches, I end up having to leave and come back in, which adds to the "hours" part. 

I get that DE is trying to make the game active and all, but I really want one (or several) of their staff members to sit down and do the NW challenges. I know they're busy folks with how much content they gotta work on, but that's kind of why I want them to do them. When you have so much RL stuff you have to finish and NW is holding rewards away from you, forcing you to complete them or else you might wait months to maybe years to get the stuff again.. That is very stressful.

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I'm very happy to have had them finished for a while now.

I can play the game again, on my own terms. Recently I farmed Wisp with a friend, and I'm having a blast playing with the new frame. It didn't line up with any of the acts, so even though I did things that would otherwise be rewarded by Nora, doing things when I wanted to was worthless to her. I'll likely sink some forma into Wisp, and sure enough, there won't be the forma act when I'm actually using it. It's making me feel bad for playing the game. Wasteful, unrewarded, "doing it wrong" those terms all fill the feeling I have with Warframe with regards to Nightwave.

On the other hand, having completed Nightwave ASAP, it's given me an opportunity to take a break from Warframe and play other games on my backlog (Borderlands Pre-sequel, and next Borderlands 2, just to finish them and delete them from my PS4 HD since I got them with PS+ for free. FFXIII-2 (just started time traveling), FFXV (kinda left off when I sailed across the sea).  I'm also trying to write a book (chapter 6), but you know how writers' block goes. More of a hobby, but I'd eventually like to publish.

If I had known about these Infested Derelicts and 200standing groups that you could eventually farm, I'd have skipped the more tedious acts that I forced myself to do early on, just to get Nightwave out of the way. Every point that I earn past 30 makes me feel I wasted my time earlier in the series. Of course, I had no idea what life would throw at me right now, and I might not have even been able to play right now, so it was overall a good thing for me to get done ASAP, but Nightwave evokes this bad feeling from me.

I am seriously missing Alerts, because Oxium and other rare ingredients are such a pain to farm that I'm ignoring crafting things that I want because it's an ingredient (that, and Cryotic, which I just can't be bothered to farm, even though it's super easy... I hate protecting things other than me... just not fun, especially when energy carriers refuse to spawn and just drag it out forever. I'll eventually get around to it, but if they made a Nightwave act about it, I'd probably ignore it on purpose out of spite.)

The changes to the recovery mechanic are welcome, making it almost what it should be. At least isn't not entirely blocking you from previous weeks now, if you're blocked by 1 or 2 pesky elite weeklies that people might not be in a position to even know what they are, let alone do them.

One step forward, two-steps back in some cases... some holding hands over their ears not wanting to hear what we're saying... some bull-headed "we're doing this anyway, and you're gonna like it or else" reasoning on other things that I just don't get.

 

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1 hour ago, -CM-Schnitzel said:

but when RNG is a pain, I only find 1 or 2 caches, I end up having to leave and come back in, which adds to the "hours" part. 

When that happens, I don't leave. I run back through the entire mapped level to find what I missed. Still doesn't take me hours. I like to think I've gotten good at finding all the nooks and crannies they can be hidden in, as a result. There's a surprising number of "secret" areas in various tilesets.

18 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I am seriously missing Alerts, because Oxium and other rare ingredients are such a pain to farm

Kinda surprised we can't buy bundles of resources using Cred.

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I am actually thankful that nightwave season 2 is still ongoing. This past 2 months, I’ve only been able to play Warframe during the weekend, causing me to miss out on a lot of Nightwave challenges.

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10 hours ago, wargthewarg said:

I decided not to bother with S2 since it was pretty obvious we weren't going to be getting a decent update in the game for a long time. I'm at rank 14 or something. I find more and more of the challenges pointing me towards content I have no interest in playing.

 

So I've just not been playing the game much, just checking the forums to see if something new gets added.

 

Nightwave isn't hard and shouldn't be since it's a battle pass for all players. It's just very tedious.

Didn't bother with NW Season 2 -> still gets halfway to 30 without trying?  I don't get this.  Doesn't sound tedious if you get almost halfway without trying at it and barely play the game.  

Again, old alert system was garbage.  Glad it's gone completely and I don't think it should even coexist next to nightwave because it was that bad.  The only valid reason I can think of to run alerts alongside nightwave is to show how garbage alerts are in comparison.  

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5 hours ago, (PS4)Navalhabr said:

I love warframe (my favorite game), But Riven mods and Nightwaves are hurting me hard. I log in... oh... 2 days to complete the quests... def 20waves... 6 gems.... ok...done... burned out... bye...  

The system is Ok, but they need to remove the "performe a game challenge" and replace with bounties, mini quests, collect resources for some dude...

Like a Guild Quest of some RPG game. 

"Hey, we need to defeat the wolf... he is hidding... we need a new thing to track his location. Go collect some things....  Now we need to create a weapon, collect the parts..."

 

Something like that...more cool, more co-op.

You get burned out playing this game by doing a 20 wave defense and mining some gems?  How can this be your favorite game if doing that burns you out.  Nightwave challenges are easy generally speaking and if the challenge is so annoying don't do it.  You can do 60% or something of the weekly challenges and elites and still get to rank 30 by season end.  If you're a completionist you can get past rank 50 and buy a ton of nitain, kuva, whatever you want out of the cred shop but naturally past 30 isn't remotely necessary unless you want more stuff out of the cred shop.  

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Ehh its been a better system then alerts in my opinion.  Not saying we couldn't still get random missions rewarding potatoes, nitrian, and excelus adapters on occasion.

My only tweak to nw at it stands. More badges for paragon levels. And kuva should be a normal reward.

I'm really just using badges for potatoes or kuva as a player with just about everything.

Stock piling for when new frames or weapons get released.

And i knew arlo was evil.

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Rank 1-30 I woke

Rank 30+ I sleep

 

If you didn't catch it yet:

After rank 30 there's no point in grinding beyond since rewards are garbage.

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12 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

You can do 60% or something of the weekly challenges and elites and still get to rank 30 by season end.

It's even easier now, with the extended deadline.

1 hour ago, adek183 said:

After rank 30 there's no point in grinding beyond since rewards are garbage.

At least it's less garbage than Alerts, yeah? We can still farm Cred to hoard extra potatoes. Also, now we can hoard Wolf Beacons to surprise people in Public missions!

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DE itself wanted to replace the alerting system but NW was incomplete and limited in this regard. I miss the alerts so much and I think it was the heart of the warframe. The game has become more static and limited. There is no surprise factor in the game anymore. I loved it when I saw potatoes in the alerts, formas, kubrow eggs and more. I'm sure much of the community is missing the old system very much ... old but very interesting due to its unpredictability which was a great quality of the game and has now been removed to something static and weekly. I don't want them to end NW, but to return to the traditional alert system. It was lively, dynamic, a kind of tutorial for new players and even veterans to keep busy and democratic. I know many people don't like the alert system but the point is not to like it .... it's a must to the game. Do not be selfish to say that the alert system is useless ... you guys already got it all right? DE's decision to remove the alert system for me and many other players was a big and miscalculated mistake. Everything in the game should never be removed but kept! Today game companies when they take a misstep they take serious damage to the community. Removing alerts was something totally wrong and hasty. I don't know if DE is struggling financially but what I also noticed was that it's getting harder and harder to see potatoes in invasion ... maybe NW is really restricting resources to players and forcing them to spend more. Reaching the 30th rank at nightwave we can only buy a maximum of 3/4 potatoes and give up other shallow and useless features like skins. Why spend credit on useless things? Leave these shallow things and other features like kavat genetic code in the alerts ... just like the randomly appearing potatoes! What NW needs is its own new / exclusive content!

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I'm glad that it is quite easy to do them for veteran players now. Season 2 is easier than 1. I did almost all missions until I got to 30, and I have not checked NW since. I like it that way. I do not like the chores, but at least they are quite manageable now. And I wish the NW season would last as long as possible, so that I can keep doing what I want and not NW, until the next season forces me to do the chores again.

Thus, if we have to have NW, then easy to rank to 30 and having long seasons are things I like :). 

I do have to say that I find NW rewards quite nice. Some fashion, some slots, some forma, some kuva, UForma, something special at the end, and now the first rank gives credits as well, for new players to get Nitain, weapon BPs and Vauban. 

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1 hour ago, Luciole77 said:

I miss the alerts so much and I think it was the heart of the warframe.

It's wasn't.

It's a feature that gets ignored once you have all the rewards worth getting.

The RNG nature of the system, when I *did* need to get certain Alert rewards, was a HUGE pain in the ass that *FORCED* me to play at certain hours, if I even could, or else risk missing out on a reward I hadn't seen in months. The Nitain farm alone is the perfect example of why the Alerts system was bad.

It was a terrible system. It needed to go. I'm glad it's gone and the game is better for it.

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6 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

It's wasn't.

It's a feature that gets ignored once you have all the rewards worth getting.

The RNG nature of the system, when I *did* need to get certain Alert rewards, was a HUGE pain in the ass that *FORCED* me to play at certain hours, if I even could, or else risk missing out on a reward I hadn't seen in months. The Nitain farm alone is the perfect example of why the Alerts system was bad.

It was a terrible system. It needed to go. I'm glad it's gone and the game is better for it.

not your opinion. Respect others dude. You have your opinion...! I garantee 70% of community want alerts back!

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1 hour ago, Luciole77 said:

not your opinion. Respect others dude. You have your opinion...! I garantee 70% of community want alerts back!

I guarantee they don't.  Want to know how many nitain my friend has prior to nitain having put in over 5K hours at the start of nightwave season 2?  Less then 10.  Nitain grind when it was alert only and 4 times in 24 hour spans was awful for anyone who attended school, went to work, etc. etc. as they couldn't get a lot of that nitain.  Potatoes are 20 plat.  Farming for 20 plat is not hard, worst comes to worst you sell 10 prime parts for 2 plat each and boom have a potato.  Now if potatoes cost way more then 20 plat like, say, 100 plat I would say they are greedy however that isn't the case.  Trading is a part of the game whether you like it or not it's just another grind.

I ignored alerts.  Had all the nitain I needed and something like 60 of it lying around when alerts ended just for future releases requiring nitain.  Then nightwave popped up and I'm sitting at over 200 now.  Not a chance I have that many without nightwave.  

Heart of the game?  Don't make me laugh.  If warframe was just about the alerts that popped up I would have quit a long, long time ago because they were meaningless outside getting that one nitain at a time when you needed nitain to build vauban prime or you actually saw a potato alert pop up once a month maybe outside gift of the lotus as those were exceedingly rare to show up in an alert.  

I guarantee also that the forums represent maybe 1% of all warframe players, and that not all forum goers are in favor of the old alert system.  They are the loud minority while the silent majority loves nightwave and will only love it more as they improve it season after season.  Alerts NEVER got improved system wise like nightwave has been in the first half year since they introduced it.  

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23 hours ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

You get burned out playing this game by doing a 20 wave defense and mining some gems?  How can this be your favorite game if doing that burns you out.  Nightwave challenges are easy generally speaking and if the challenge is so annoying don't do it.  You can do 60% or something of the weekly challenges and elites and still get to rank 30 by season end.  If you're a completionist you can get past rank 50 and buy a ton of nitain, kuva, whatever you want out of the cred shop but naturally past 30 isn't remotely necessary unless you want more stuff out of the cred shop.  

I'm Mr 26 (2443 hours played), everthing is easy. The point is not difficulty is the lack of. I can just Ember 4 and leave the room on defense 20. I want cool things to do, not the same old all the time.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Navalhabr said:

I'm Mr 26 (2443 hours played), everthing is easy. The point is not difficulty is the lack of. I can just Ember 4 and leave the room on defense 20. I want cool things to do, not the same old all the time.

There should be a weekly Nightwave act for people who find the elite challanges easy. If you do it, you'll get an amount of standing equivalent to all other acts combined. I'm thinking of "Do 2 hours of Arbitration survival without getting downed" and stuff like that, that should be challenging! 

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On 2019-09-18 at 5:56 AM, (PS4)Viveeeh said:

There should be a weekly Nightwave act for people who find the elite challanges easy. If you do it, you'll get an amount of standing equivalent to all other acts combined. I'm thinking of "Do 2 hours of Arbitration survival without getting downed" and stuff like that, that should be challenging! 

Challenging not to fall asleep at best. Warframe is not really meant to be challenging since quite a long while and people need to accept it. If you want challenging things then first get rid of all the white knights in the community that effectively halt pretty much all progress that game can get.

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