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FrostDragoon

We still don't have a fix for the issues created by the melee changes

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7 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

If we're going to complain about the melee system, we should complain about the melee system.

I agree, except for the busted syndicate interactions.

Otherwise, you can see where my arguments have been with regard to these changes.

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12 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

In the terms of the full version of melee 3.0, that's what you're forgetting here. It's in Phases, with the end goal being Melee 3.0. If your point is "that's stupid" I agree but not to the point that I'll say the entire new phase is inferior due to relatively minor infractions to how you play the game.

For me, it is inferior. There is exactly one part about the new system that I like: the ability to aim slam attacks. Everything else has been a flat out downgrade for me.

You are correct in that the phases idea was and still is completely stupid. By far the biggest problem for me is that, with very few exceptions (all weapons for which I don't really care), stance melee or even stanceless melee mode is utterly terrible. And we've had it forced on us for more than half a year now with no sign that it's going to change for the better.

12 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

That's lack of awareness. If I shoot my weapon until my mag empties, and then switch to my secondary until the enemy is dead, I can't blame that on secondaries being able to be swapped to, can I? Switch back to your weapon, all you have to do is press the aim or fire button for the smallest interval possible.

I do that. I've been doing that ever since the melee changes hit. I did not have to do that before. Having to do extra stuff simply to get almost but not quite where I was before is a downgrade. Not to mention the annoyance factor (for me, a nausea factor for others) of having my FoV zoom in and out every single time I do that.

You say it's not a problem and that "all I have to do" is this, but if you had to fiddle around for 1 second after meleeing before you could get the gun back, would that be a problem then? How about 2 seconds, or 5? What is the cutoff point before you consider it to be too much - and why should there be a cutoff in the first place, knowing that there existed a previous implementation which did not have this problem?

12 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

If we're going to complain about the melee system, we should complain about the melee system. Things you've listed aren't problems that the melee system makes, they exist around that weapon category, or the mechanic's category, not playing nice with other items in the first place. We're not going to make them fix the melee system by having them focus on how reloading works, or how syndicate procs don't reset when switching the active weapon. Because those aren't the problems the melee system made, or the feedback they're looking for. This is what I mean by them being irrelevant. I'm not saying they don't matter for the flow of the game, but that it means nothing to the melee system itself, and the feedback for it needs to be in their categories.

The problem here is with the implementation of the melee system. The very fact that it forces the gun out of my hands is the problem. The core design is the problem.

Forcing the gun back into people's hands is another problem, this time faced by those who liked stance melee (and also those who are trying to mine, scan or fish). They can neither block nor not block upon command, they've now got vomit-o-vision when tapping aim glide for fine control of their flight and they've lost precision in channeling.

Scanners, drills and spears don't have any real inherent flaws in their implementation style (their mechanics, especially when it comes to fortuna spears, are something else). They work well enough except for when they're thrown out of my hands when they weren't before.

Not being able to alt-fire straight after melee is another direct flaw of the melee system. Not a problem before, is a problem now.

Every single one of my secondary problems is a direct result of the forced equipping of melee. I actually made use of syndicate proc pausing on weapon switch before, swapping the Sanctigris for the Lex Prime whenever walking past a breakable window or sneaking past the jellyfish in a Grineer spy vault, then pulling out just before the hack so that I could clear out all the cameras/door magnet things when completing the vault. I also made huge use of syndicate proc charging during melee - not something that happened in solo games, but extremely helpful in team games where my squadmates' shared XP would charge up and explode my gun while I was in full swing, giving me both increased damage output and some healing. That utility made the Sanctigris a worthwhile choice over the Tigris Prime. Not any more.

If we didn't have forced equipping of our melee weapons when swinging them, not one of these problems would have ever occurred. I never had them before, they only happened after the melee changes hit us. It's a reasonable conclusion to say that the melee system caused these problems.

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