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-vnn

Warframe 2. Perhaps?

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2 minutes ago, HugintheCrow said:

Really makes your noggin joggin'.

Nothing wrong with that if they started with a flexible design... Unix was always flexible, so it continues to infect new computers and hardware. I suppose Windows NT was the same way as it mutated into the amalgamation that is Windows 10. So, why not Warframe? Not like DE hasn't made enormous changes to it before! They're willing to tinker at that level (compare to Blizzard which won't even touch numbers in base skills in Diablo 3 character classes now).

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1 hour ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

I doubt that happens ever.  They can always update the engine for the original, heck they're improving the visuals tremendously this year remember that bit at tennocon with the reworked orbiter interior for example?  Things can always be fixed.  

Things can be fixed for now at least, and ideally for as long as possible. But there is only so far you can take an engine before it starts to crack. Creation engine and Fallout 76 is a good example of that.

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34 minutes ago, Duduminador said:

Stop watching streamers that call anything content draught. yet DE has never shipped as many updates as it did in 2019 this far. We've entirely new tilesets and map reworks along with frames and weapons, Mogamu at this point is just firing at any direction.

Warframe has one main problem. Balance. If there is a meta going on that makes every frame or build look underwhelming, that feeling will apply to every future content the devs try to introduce into the game. I literaly gave up trying to address this subject but it's this simple:

Balance keeps people entertained, trying out different things because they are all worth the time, a player ultimately enters a quest to find him/herself, to find a build he/she is confortable with, not to overpower one, this can be virtually a endless experience. People enjoy that a lot of times without being aware of it. Any new update is a possibility of expanding those options.

Meta does precisely the opposite. Meta is a hype of overkilling stuff, every new content only provides entertainment long enough untill proven underpowered or dismissable. And then they call it 'content draught'. The power fantasy addiction shoved so deep in that place that they don't want to admit it to be the problem.

Image result for they're right you know

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Yeah no, 5 years of my progress gone to start a new "game" it was bad when destiny did that and turn your progress from the first into throw away voice lines on the second why would i have that from warframe?

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2 hours ago, Duduminador said:

Stop watching streamers that call anything content draught. yet DE has never shipped as many updates as it did in 2019 this far. We've entirely new tilesets and map reworks along with frames and weapons, Mogamu at this point is just firing at any direction.

Warframe has one main problem. Balance. If there is a meta going on that makes every frame or build look underwhelming, that feeling will apply to every future content the devs try to introduce into the game. I literaly gave up trying to address this subject but it's this simple:

Balance keeps people entertained, trying out different things because they are all worth the time, a player ultimately enters a quest to find him/herself, to find a build he/she is confortable with, not to overpower one, this can be virtually a endless experience. People enjoy that a lot of times without being aware of it. Any new update is a possibility of expanding those options.

Meta does precisely the opposite. Meta is a hype of overkilling stuff, every new content only provides entertainment long enough untill proven underpowered or dismissable. And then they call it 'content draught'. The power fantasy addiction shoved so deep in that place that they don't want to admit it to be the problem.

Here here!

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Warframe is a game that can go on expanding on what it has currently, no need for a sequel. If anything, maybe a prequel, back to the very start where the zariman 10-0 goes into the void and let us play through the story up until our betrayal. I'd make this one a singleplayer game imo.

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Breaking the game up into smaller. 

8 hours ago, -vnn said:

Before I start, I would like to put a disclaimer out that I am in no way a developer or understand how a game is built. Nor am I a story/quest writer. And if this suggestion had been made in the past, I apologize for presenting the same idea once again.

 

Now, with the recent hoo-hah about partners leaving and the on-going rant of content draught, and the defense of the content draught comparing other games to Warframe as to what content is, I personally feel that it is not that Warframe is lacking content, but the model of how Warframe is presented that is lacking. I hope we can agree that Warframe is a grindy game, it was designed to be grindy, and it should be grindy. Let's ignore the rewards part for the entire conversation. Warframe is meant to be a grind. Therefore, we can learn from one of the most grindy, repetitive game there is out there, which people are using to defend content draught, Pokemon. It is undoubtedly one of the highest-grossing, longest-running game franchise in existence. 

Some have used it to counter the lack of content in Warframe and they are not wrong. DE coming up with new warframes and weapon and the like are content. Props to them for coming up with new ideas for weapons and warframes and game modes. But I think that there is a flaw with the comparison of Pokemon to Warframe: how these content are being presented, the model.

How can Pokemon, a game that has remained the same ever since the first generation came out still sell and still be popular? Literally, every game of the subsequent generation is the same as the previous one. You go catch Pokemon, beat gym leaders, and become the Pokemon League champion. That's all there is to it. I might be wrong and might have overlooked a few things, but I think that it is the way the content are being presented by the Pokemon franchise:

1. You start from scratch every time.
2. You get new Pokemon (maybe some previous ones carried over).
3. You get a new storyline (sort of). Albeit with the same goal.

If we were to use how new content is being presented to us in Warframe and apply it to the Pokemon games, it would be a train wreck. 

We will still be playing Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow, after eight generations of Pokemon (content) and we're still playing the same storyline, as Red (protaganist). It is no wonder we feel that there is no reward with new content. Because our first generation Pokemon from Red/Blue/Yellow has reached Lv100 and we have a fully optimized team that could take on whatever the game throws at us. Catching new Pokemon becomes a chore and only for the sake of completing the Pokedex. They are no longer content in our eyes, but merely more grind. Having more generations of Pokemon (content) no longer feels rewarding. A new set of gym leaders to beat is going to be another same old same old thing again after a while because we can just wipe them out with our fully optimized team and the same goes for the new Pokemon League, even if they require different ways to beat (new game modes).

So what is the difference between Pokemon and Warframe? It is the model in which new content and games modes are presented. What if we take the model from the Pokemon franchise and apply it to Warframe.

Perhaps Warframe 2 is a little bit too much to ask for and I doubt veterans would want to start a new game that they have mastered. My suggestion here is galaxies. Warframe: Milky Way (the current Warframe) (first generation Pokemon) officially ends with The War Within. Plains of Eidolon is the endgame, the final hurdle. Revenant is the last obtainable warframe. Anything after that will be available in the next galaxy, Andromeda (second generation).

Now here's what's different. Somehow by some series of events, we end up in Andromeda. We start Andromeda by choosing one of three new warframes and a set of new weapons. We have a whole new star chart to clear, new warframes and weapons to farm. But we are not able to access our previously own warframes and weapons. Let's leave the minor details like essential mods aside for now. It could be solved with some storyline allowing us to obtain them somehow. All warframes and weapons after Revenant are only available in Andromeda. Fortuna is only available in Andromeda. Disruption is only available in Andromeda. There are only so many warframes and weapons in that galaxy. And when the storyline for Andromeda ends, it connects back to Milky Way and allows us full access to all our gear once again. What if we  find out that the Tenno is not a mistake? Something we wouldn't have found out if we didn't end up in Andromeda? What if Empyrean is a technology of a different colony of Tenno that made it to Andromeda? It opens up possibilities, freshness, a sense of wonder.

What this does is it makes us actually feel like we are playing new content. Almost everything is new to us. New planets to explore. New enemies. New game modes that are only available in that galaxy. New warframes and weapons to obtain that are a part of the story that is connected to that particular galaxy. Churning out more warframes and weapons is basically redundant right now because we are not experiencing a sense of new-ness. It's the same old same old.

I understand that Warframe was never meant to be an epic RPG. But the current story is just a bundle of mess. Who even is the Lotus? The Second Dream is one of the best gaming experience anyone can have. I remember reading comments of veterans back then of how emotional they were, how it changed their view of the game, how it changes everything. I remember myself going, "Wtf? You've got to be kidding me!" It got me hooked on Warframe for the next 1000 or so hours. But now I don't even now what's going on.

 

With this model I'm suggesting, new players will not feel overwhelmed because they can choose to start in Andromeda. They can play as a Tenno in the new colony and once they finish the star chart they meet a Tenno from Milky Way that leads them there which they will start with starter frames again. They don't need to play Milky Way if they don't want to. Of course, there are disconnection that you would've thought of between the two galaxies (storyline, quests, etc.), but a well-written story would connect these missing pieces and we leave that to DE. And for the veterans, it's like a new game again. And if they like, they can go back go to Andromeda with the frames from Milky Way and optimize the gameplay there, or use equipment from Andromeda in Milky Way. Weapons types or gimmicks can also be tweaked for the specific galaxy. Maybe a new weapon element or two. 

 

I have not farmed every frame or weapons available and to be honest, I don't feel like it. Saryn Prime is out now, I don't have it nor do I have Saryn but I don't feel like farming it. Because I don't need it. Yeah, it's meta for ESO and clearing maps quickly, but I don't need it. I can use other frames. I'm bored of running the same missions again and again and cracking relics again and again. There is no incentive to do it. But if it's a new galaxy, a new setting where I don't have the optimized frames I now have and Saryn Prime is a new frame (for example), I would have the motivation to farm for it. Because I have limited frames and need to get all I can for optimization.

 

I understand that there are flaws and missing joints in the model I suggest but my main point is that a change of how new content is presented would potentially be the answer to the balance between beginner/casual player content and veteran/endgame content. This requires a great amount of resources. From story writing to coding a new galaxy. I leave it up to DE to consider this model. I hope this would help point DE in the right direction for the game. It's one thing for a game to be great, it's another thing for a game to remain great. 

Tl'DR OP is suggesting making a whole new game from the ground up to solve content drought that is a glorified -reset progress- button, because the developers are taking too long working on the content. 

Your heart's in the right place, but I don't think developing all that infrastructure just to romanticize starting over will make anything faster.

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55 minutes ago, TENNO_NOT_FOUND said:

Breaking the game up into smaller. 

Tl'DR OP is suggesting making a whole new game from the ground up to solve content drought that is a glorified -reset progress- button, because the developers are taking too long working on the content. 

Your heart's in the right place, but I don't think developing all that infrastructure just to romanticize starting over will make anything faster.

That's like making a bridge that will that take 2 years to make cause crossing the river with boat will take 2 hours

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said:

Warframe 2? Excalibur Prime for everyone!!

Is it Excalibur 2 Prime or Excalibur Prime 2?

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That sound more Destiny, Then Destiny 2 and i bet the supposed Destiny 3 will be the same. There can be only 1 Warframe and we have it.

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9 hours ago, -vnn said:

I apologize for presenting the same idea once again.

Not like you could have googled for 2 friggin seconds.

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4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Creation engine and Fallout 76 is a good example of that.

Well, Bethesda isn't a particularly good example to go off, considering their rather lax bug-testing standards.

That's just my perspective though.

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6 hours ago, Aseraan said:

"""""Destiny 2""""""

thats why I aint touchin destiny

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5 hours ago, Duduminador said:

Stop watching streamers that call anything content draught. yet DE has never shipped as many updates as it did in 2019 this far. We've entirely new tilesets and map reworks along with frames and weapons, Mogamu at this point is just firing at any direction.

Warframe has one main problem. Balance. If there is a meta going on that makes every frame or build look underwhelming, that feeling will apply to every future content the devs try to introduce into the game. I literaly gave up trying to address this subject but it's this simple:

Balance keeps people entertained, trying out different things because they are all worth the time, a player ultimately enters a quest to find him/herself, to find a build he/she is confortable with, not to overpower one, this can be virtually a endless experience. People enjoy that a lot of times without being aware of it. Any new update is a possibility of expanding those options.

Meta does precisely the opposite. Meta is a hype of overkilling stuff, every new content only provides entertainment long enough untill proven underpowered or dismissable. And then they call it 'content draught'. The power fantasy addiction shoved so deep in that place that they don't want to admit it to be the problem.

OUTSTANDING Post!!

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17 hours ago, -vnn said:

Before I start, I would like to put a disclaimer out that I am in no way a developer or understand how a game is built. Nor am I a story/quest writer. And if this suggestion had been made in the past, I apologize for presenting the same idea once again.

 

Now, with the recent hoo-hah about partners leaving and the on-going rant of content draught, and the defense of the content draught comparing other games to Warframe as to what content is, I personally feel that it is not that Warframe is lacking content, but the model of how Warframe is presented that is lacking. I hope we can agree that Warframe is a grindy game, it was designed to be grindy, and it should be grindy. Let's ignore the rewards part for the entire conversation. Warframe is meant to be a grind. Therefore, we can learn from one of the most grindy, repetitive game there is out there, which people are using to defend content draught, Pokemon. It is undoubtedly one of the highest-grossing, longest-running game franchise in existence. 

Some have used it to counter the lack of content in Warframe and they are not wrong. DE coming up with new warframes and weapon and the like are content. Props to them for coming up with new ideas for weapons and warframes and game modes. But I think that there is a flaw with the comparison of Pokemon to Warframe: how these content are being presented, the model.

How can Pokemon, a game that has remained the same ever since the first generation came out still sell and still be popular? Literally, every game of the subsequent generation is the same as the previous one. You go catch Pokemon, beat gym leaders, and become the Pokemon League champion. That's all there is to it. I might be wrong and might have overlooked a few things, but I think that it is the way the content are being presented by the Pokemon franchise:

1. You start from scratch every time.
2. You get new Pokemon (maybe some previous ones carried over).
3. You get a new storyline (sort of). Albeit with the same goal.

If we were to use how new content is being presented to us in Warframe and apply it to the Pokemon games, it would be a train wreck. 

We will still be playing Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow, after eight generations of Pokemon (content) and we're still playing the same storyline, as Red (protaganist). It is no wonder we feel that there is no reward with new content. Because our first generation Pokemon from Red/Blue/Yellow has reached Lv100 and we have a fully optimized team that could take on whatever the game throws at us. Catching new Pokemon becomes a chore and only for the sake of completing the Pokedex. They are no longer content in our eyes, but merely more grind. Having more generations of Pokemon (content) no longer feels rewarding. A new set of gym leaders to beat is going to be another same old same old thing again after a while because we can just wipe them out with our fully optimized team and the same goes for the new Pokemon League, even if they require different ways to beat (new game modes).

So what is the difference between Pokemon and Warframe? It is the model in which new content and games modes are presented. What if we take the model from the Pokemon franchise and apply it to Warframe.

Perhaps Warframe 2 is a little bit too much to ask for and I doubt veterans would want to start a new game that they have mastered. My suggestion here is galaxies. Warframe: Milky Way (the current Warframe) (first generation Pokemon) officially ends with The War Within. Plains of Eidolon is the endgame, the final hurdle. Revenant is the last obtainable warframe. Anything after that will be available in the next galaxy, Andromeda (second generation).

Now here's what's different. Somehow by some series of events, we end up in Andromeda. We start Andromeda by choosing one of three new warframes and a set of new weapons. We have a whole new star chart to clear, new warframes and weapons to farm. But we are not able to access our previously own warframes and weapons. Let's leave the minor details like essential mods aside for now. It could be solved with some storyline allowing us to obtain them somehow. All warframes and weapons after Revenant are only available in Andromeda. Fortuna is only available in Andromeda. Disruption is only available in Andromeda. There are only so many warframes and weapons in that galaxy. And when the storyline for Andromeda ends, it connects back to Milky Way and allows us full access to all our gear once again. What if we  find out that the Tenno is not a mistake? Something we wouldn't have found out if we didn't end up in Andromeda? What if Empyrean is a technology of a different colony of Tenno that made it to Andromeda? It opens up possibilities, freshness, a sense of wonder.

What this does is it makes us actually feel like we are playing new content. Almost everything is new to us. New planets to explore. New enemies. New game modes that are only available in that galaxy. New warframes and weapons to obtain that are a part of the story that is connected to that particular galaxy. Churning out more warframes and weapons is basically redundant right now because we are not experiencing a sense of new-ness. It's the same old same old.

I understand that Warframe was never meant to be an epic RPG. But the current story is just a bundle of mess. Who even is the Lotus? The Second Dream is one of the best gaming experience anyone can have. I remember reading comments of veterans back then of how emotional they were, how it changed their view of the game, how it changes everything. I remember myself going, "Wtf? You've got to be kidding me!" It got me hooked on Warframe for the next 1000 or so hours. But now I don't even now what's going on.

 

With this model I'm suggesting, new players will not feel overwhelmed because they can choose to start in Andromeda. They can play as a Tenno in the new colony and once they finish the star chart they meet a Tenno from Milky Way that leads them there which they will start with starter frames again. They don't need to play Milky Way if they don't want to. Of course, there are disconnection that you would've thought of between the two galaxies (storyline, quests, etc.), but a well-written story would connect these missing pieces and we leave that to DE. And for the veterans, it's like a new game again. And if they like, they can go back go to Andromeda with the frames from Milky Way and optimize the gameplay there, or use equipment from Andromeda in Milky Way. Weapons types or gimmicks can also be tweaked for the specific galaxy. Maybe a new weapon element or two. 

 

I have not farmed every frame or weapons available and to be honest, I don't feel like it. Saryn Prime is out now, I don't have it nor do I have Saryn but I don't feel like farming it. Because I don't need it. Yeah, it's meta for ESO and clearing maps quickly, but I don't need it. I can use other frames. I'm bored of running the same missions again and again and cracking relics again and again. There is no incentive to do it. But if it's a new galaxy, a new setting where I don't have the optimized frames I now have and Saryn Prime is a new frame (for example), I would have the motivation to farm for it. Because I have limited frames and need to get all I can for optimization.

 

I understand that there are flaws and missing joints in the model I suggest but my main point is that a change of how new content is presented would potentially be the answer to the balance between beginner/casual player content and veteran/endgame content. This requires a great amount of resources. From story writing to coding a new galaxy. I leave it up to DE to consider this model. I hope this would help point DE in the right direction for the game. It's one thing for a game to be great, it's another thing for a game to remain great. 

I think warframe 2 will need to happen in about 5 more years or so but DE its way too slow in his development so I think this game will get to 15 years and we will still be asking for a conclusion for stalker.

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You don't have the ability to spend 100s and 1000s of real life money in Pokemon. Those people woukd either have to start all the way at the top, or be #*!%ed over. Theres a reason there's no WoW 2

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Having sequels to good games does not mean they'll be any better than their originals, so no.

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I think majority of you have misunderstood what I'm saying. It might be because i wasn't bring too clear about it. I'm not suggesting that we completely throw out all our progress. It is only for WF2 (since most of you are calling it this). You can still access all of your gear when you play the current star chart. It's only when you play the subsequent star chart that you're starting fresh. You can hunt eidolon during the night cycle with your full gear and then hope onto WF2 during the day cycle if you want to, it's the next star chart. DE has never dictate (some of) the order of quest you play. It's instance based after all and not an epic RPG. It is not a game sequel but a continuation of story telling with added game mechanics. This is the reason why I put out a disclaimer out at the beginning because I don't know if this could be possible.

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While ops post is far from great (and I mean far) I see no need to be needlessly rude hard and toxic to the guy. +1 to the community here y’all deserve it

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12 minutes ago, -vnn said:

I think majority of you have misunderstood what I'm saying. It might be because i wasn't bring too clear about it. I'm not suggesting that we completely throw out all our progress. It is only for WF2 (since most of you are calling it this). You can still access all of your gear when you play the current star chart. It's only when you play the subsequent star chart that you're starting fresh. You can hunt eidolon during the night cycle with your full gear and then hope onto WF2 during the day cycle if you want to, it's the next star chart. DE has never dictate (some of) the order of quest you play. It's instance based after all and not an epic RPG. It is not a game sequel but a continuation of story telling with added game mechanics. This is the reason why I put out a disclaimer out at the beginning because I don't know if this could be possible.

Yeah, that is what I mean if you like start over eveytime it's update, then yes. Unless you can bring Some, if not All of your previous gear to the new system. But you still needed to grinding all over again. Which isn't that difference from starting over. Think of it as second playthough but you are not allow to bring any items or any progress (level/exp/skill) to the new run. Even if the new run do spot have story/side story. Or if you think of it as sequal, then it would be another game all together. Meaning you aren't playing the same game unless you go back to the previous star chart. But if the new update implemented, you still have to start over...

It's also not solving issue if the star chart is really old. Since most players would have a very high level gear over there. So new player still have power difference when they go back to that start chart/start playing over there. If that happen, it would void all your argument completly.

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