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Digital Extreme Lighting


AnnaCurser
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15 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

today after update. the lighting was super extreme. when i fiddle on the brightness, some rooms are either White. Or others get Black. How do I shut this off?

Hi DavidCurser,

Do you happen to see this lighting issue anywhere else in the game? Or is it specific to the Corpus Ship tileset? 

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46 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

today after update. the lighting was super extreme. when i fiddle on the brightness, some rooms are either White. Or others get Black. How do I shut this off?

Do you have Adaptive Exposure or High Dynamic Range enabled? Those two seem to get broken pretty often

Edited by [DE]Linkski
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its any map really, and not all the time. but sometimes strongly.

i have adaptive exposure off. ill turn off HDR too and see if it does anything.

 

I have shut off HDR and i dont see any difference. im not clear on what it does. i restarted the game but it looks the same.

Edited by DavidCurser
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5 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

I have shut off HDR and i dont see any difference. im not clear on what it does. i restarted the game but it looks the same.

Can you please try enabling adaptive exposure and HDR? These should have a minimal impact on performance, and adaptive exposure make a significant difference in lighting quality. Also, you'll likely want to set the brightness / contrast settings to their defaults (50 / 50).

If you're still experiencing issues, then can you please post a couple of screenshots of your display settings? 

Thanks!

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ive turned them on and the difference is small. now the light changes constantly from one room to the next but in the moments of entering, the rooms are still black, or white, until i walk inside.

this room is black as hell. Brightness still on 60.

Warframe0381.jpg

And when im outside, lookint in, its even darker.

Warframe0380.jpgwhen i look outside from the room, the door is white.

Warframe0382.jpg

and overall i constantly get those white spots on the floors.

Warframe0386.jpgWarframe0385.jpg

When i stand here, and look into this room. its Black

Warframe0384.jpg

but when i start on the black, and look outside. its white.

Warframe0383.jpg

and some parts, like this gate, are lit AF.

Warframe0387.jpg

Warframe0388.jpgWarframe0389.jpgWarframe0390.jpg

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@DavidCurser, Retake your screenshots with 50/50 (Brightness/Contrast), so that [DE]Linkski can have a proper idea of which areas are too bright and which are too dark.

@[DE]Linkski, I can confirm that most areas are overbright. Considering DavidCurser's screenshot of his graphical settings, I can easily point out the differences between mine and his.

 

What I have different from DavidCurser:

- Brightness set to 48, Contrast at 50;

- Film Grain set to "On". (Its so imperceptible in so many ways that it doesn't make a difference there (thanks you guys for that));

- GPU Particles set to "Ludicrous";

- TAA Sharpen set to 25;

- Depth of Field set to "Disabled". (Melee hits with DoF enabled cause an aberrant distortion (its harmful to my eyes) that can't be minimized unless I disable it, any other effect from it is fine);

- Bloom Intensity set to 10;

- Color Correction set to "On".

Higher concentration of "Overbrightness" is concentrated on Corpus and/or void tiles, ambient lighting is indeed higher than its supposed to, most excessive below ceiling light sources.

Its present on some of the Grineer tiles, almost exclusively below ceiling light sources. Ambient lighting may need a bit of general toning down but its not as serious of a difference as seen on Corpus tiles.

I haven't run any mission on Eris, or the Kuva Fortress since this update. I can send screenshots about these areas, if you prefer, and check (and send those too, if necessary) the other tilesets in the meantime.

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ive set my brightness and contrast to 50/50 and the game just gets generally darker. I get that Space is Dark but c'mon. I cant see a thing. I cannot understand how Im the only person that sees this or is bothered by it. It was Not like this a few days ago. The contrast is just too damn high.

Warframe0391.jpgWarframe0392.jpg

 

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3 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

ive set my brightness and contrast to 50/50 and the game just gets generally darker. I get that Space is Dark but c'mon. I cant see a thing. I cannot understand how Im the only person that sees this or is bothered by it. It was Not like this a few days ago. The contrast is just too damn high.

The reason why the default settings are "50/50" is because of the overall neutrality of the graphics presented by the client. If you increase your brightness and reduce your contrast, you'll be hiding details, that your eyes can't see but your mind is processing, with excessive brightness and low relevance depth.

Graphical changes/updates are made for 50/50 setting, not for individual settings. By doing it for your individually setting, everyone else would get a generally darker, excessively pronounced, graphical experience that would do nothing other than headaches and bloodshot eyes...

After spending my childhood playing, on purpose, Nintendo's Super Mario ('83 release) on monochromatic setting, 1 brightness and 100 contrast, and complete all of its levels from start to finish (no warp tubes) in a single run without pausing, your "60" brightness is to me the equivalent of having the brightness set to 500. Now imagine those Overbright Corpus areas, how they seem to me. I'm not saying you should've done the same, but this is just to point out that they don't change to personal preferences. They change for the general, and the general is 50/50. What you should've done, if you were going to take screenshots with 50/50, it was to take them from those affected areas, not the Simulacrum because that area seems fine on 50/50...

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well, I tried to use my example of "brightness sensitivity" to point out the difference between individual settings and how those affect users differently than the one that is effectively using it, and that graphical changes are meant for 50/50 (brightness/contrast) settings. Each player uses individual settings at their own choice, but changes/updates are for 50/50.

Things may seem darker at 50/50 for you, but that's a backlash of your individual brightness/contrast setting. However, 50/50 is where everything is neutral.

Edited by Uhkretor
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OMG I hate #*!%ing adaptive Exposure! someone is flashing the lightswitch every few seconds, its super disturbing to look at! But when i turn it off, the game looks like S#&$ once more. What stupid piece of S#&$ game looks like this!

 

Look at this! I turned it all Off and I cant see any difference in how the light works!
then i turned it on again. it looks the #*!%ing same!

nodifference.jpg

its Pitch black either way! and super bright Spot lights! theres no option to change that. What has DE done to this #*!%ing game?

 

change_Kopie.jpg

Edited by DavidCurser
Rage
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I've been taking a good look at the topic for the last day, but all the screens I see properly. There's a few things one has to understand before saying things are wrong:

  • Screen calibration must be the proper one. DE is developing the game for Windows, which uses the sRGB standard, which means that they set things with this settings in mind:
    • White point must be set at D65, which is 6500K if you can select it or, usually, the Warm color setting.
    • Gamma must be adjusted at 2.25.
    • Contrast must be in the proper range, so color shows no banding.
    • Black and white balancing must be the proper one.
    • In game settings for brightness, contrast, etc. at their defaults.
    • In short, you must be able to pass this to the best of your ability: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
    • This above is true for ALL games, movies, etc. UNLESS they're done in MacOS/iOS which accomodates to 1.8 gamma. If you don't have your screen properly set up, you're missing on a lot.
       
  • There was a lighting pass with Saint of Altra to accomodate to the material changes, which means things are wonky (yes, the Corpus ship is wonky and Steve already said this is getting revisited next). On top of this, it looks like it's getting changed again.
  • On all your pictures, even those that do objectively look uneven, I can totally see details. In rooms you say they're pitch black, I can see the floor, in rooms you say are white, I see the room normal although excessively lit. Even on those where the in game settings are changed so they're NOT looking like DE wants to, I can see things.

Yes, the game will need a new U18.5 levels of lighting pass soon, but there's nothing so excessive or bugged that you don't see what you're doing looking at neither the screenshots or in my own experience. So you cannot just rage at changes that do try to make the most out of the PBR material system and completely improve the game's look without correcting your settings first, because it's not going to be proper feedback.

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43 minutes ago, DavidCurser said:

but it DIDNT look like this a few days ago. it just Changed into this mess. Why can I not just have back the look i had before?

Because the lighting (and in fact, the engine) was NOT accomodated for proper PBR material rendering. The game changes constantly, over the years there have been 4 or 5 passes to how the lighting looks. The game certainly looks very different to how it did when I started playing back in 2013, and so far everytime they do a pass things tend to look better, with exceptions here and there that are corrected afterwards.

Again, what you cannot do is try to give feedback dismissing the whole point of what DE is trying to accomplish. In your last screen, the May one looks bland, and the right one looks like a proper lit tile, even though, yes, it needs adjustment and a pass (in fact I believe that the Grineer Galleon hasn't been remastered neither, so I guess it's also coming soon with Empyrean or so).

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All maps now do this, DE steve even showcased their new lighting system in a devstream showing the lighting system which can change, have your character "under" something or in a dark corner and the lighting will dim, same if you go into the open the lighting brightens, its a stupidly annoying system given that even your weapons and warframe abilities do the same to you, slap on a bright energy power and use some frame powers and the screen brightens followed by a dimming, in some cases the brighten/dimming is so frequent/severe if just peeved you off and becomes annoying fast, an option to turn this dumb feature off would be nice, many missions packed with mobs/gunfire/abilites serve as a major annoyance visually due to this new feature.

Cant find the devstream mentioning it, but heres something quickly found on twitter, no idea if this specifically is in but "something" did get added/changed making lighting stupidly annoying.

 

Edited by Methanoid
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I look at such lighting change as if my "eyes" are adapting to the present lighting. That's probably what it represents, and it makes sense since the human eye does -the exact same thing-.

 

You're not the only one bothered by it. Everyone's bothered by it, but the lighting present has not been changed on all tiles to accommodate the new lighting system.

You, however, get a much bigger impact from it because you are using setting that are unique to you, and you alone, and despite the fact that you have to ruin the game's atmosphere to accommodate your... fear of having details hidden by dark spaces (which obviously is your choice, and yours alone) does not mean that 99.9% of the world has to suffer an equally atmosphere breaking darkness on supposedly well lit areas to accommodate your unique client settings.

The reason why there is a brightness/contrast slider option is to accommodate each player's preferences. Not everyone has the same visual standards, or sensitivity, so the changes that you're seeing are perceived as "too dark" (But like I said before, its a backlash of your high brightness/low contrast setting on your Warframe client), others may see them as too bright... But I'm pretty sure the majority just leaves those two settings at 50/50. You need to be patient, the lighting system changes are very recent and each tile needs to be reviewed and adjusted to these changes...

 

"Why didn't they finish the job before releasing it, so I don't have to eat with this dark, depressing, scary environment atmosphere?"

That's easy... Its very simple to adjust the lighting to their company screens, if all the screens are the same... They, however, don't know what each player is using, and player feedback is important for core systems, like the lighting system, so that they can adjust the lighting properly to the majority that is using 50/50.

 

Now, imagine this situation...

You have 10 players giving feedback about the lighting adjustments, with brightness/contrast at 50/50:

- 7 say that the adjustment is perfect;

- 1 say that the adjustment made the game too dark;

- 2 say that the adjustment made the game too bright.

... Which of those feedbacks results, even if all 3 of them are important, are they going to work with?

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DE should at least make it optional. None of the lighting buttons can turn off this Mess they made.
and as long as the game looks like this, I cannot playing without having serious trouble seeing anything. Plus, hurting my eyes.

For me, this is unfair. im not colour blind. those mods wont do anything for me. And the game was fine before. so chaning it into a state, where it is Unplayable, thats just a di-c-k Move.

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1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

DE should at least make it optional. None of the lighting buttons can turn off this Mess they made.

See, that's the thing... This isn't an "optional feature". Lighting system is one of the core components of the Warframe client.

 

1 hour ago, DavidCurser said:

And the game was fine before. so chaning it into a state, where it is Unplayable, thats just a di-c-k Move.

Word of advice. ^ This ^ is the kind of feedback that gets brushed off and pushed aside. You technically have been degrading from Feedback to ranting/venting frustrations over something that isn't optional, and is here to stay.

 

Like I said, this lighting change is very recent, and the tiles themselves are adjusted to the previous systems in which you said, and well pointed out (but with excessive brightness level on your end), everything was fine... But the Lighting System change you mentioned as being "fine" before, was also facing the same problems back then as this new system is currently facing, for the same exact reason: - New Lighting System, old tile lighting sources & values.

Like it happened before, to the system that you pointed out as being "just fine", the tiles will have to be adjusted to the new Lighting System. And then, it will be "just fine" like the outdated lighting system.

 

if you think that the new system is hurtful to your eyes, let me put this from a medical perspective. Humans are creatures of habits, the higher you set your brightness to see all the dark spots like you're pointing a flashlight to them, the more brightness your eyes require. Eventually, you'll end up putting the brightness all the way to 100, rendering you practically blind towards several elements presented by the Warframe client, and then you'll increase your screen brightness values... And at the end, you'll step outside and everywhere you look at, you'll see nothing bright. A regular day, at noon, will appear like the end of the day, more or less 6pm...

The opposite also happens for those that lower their brightness values because "its too bright". The more he/she lowers the brightness values, the brighter is the "neutral" setting. Eventually, the eyes of that person will become photosensitive to the point where stepping outside will sting his/her eyes for up to minutes.

The only difference between you and this person, considering detail orientation, is that you will miss details of stuff during the day unless there's a spotlight pointing at it, while the other person will notice details that are present in darker areas as well (if not better) as you would with a spotlight pointed at it, leaving the impression of near photographic memory to any detail that is present on well lit areas.

 

Like I said, human eyes are as unique as fingerprints. The brightness/contrast sliders are there for all those tiny perceptional differences.. But the difference you've noticed when you took those last screenshots, on that rescue room, were simply the shadow consideration of the new system. The old system didn't quite consider it, however the new system seems to consider it.

If you prefer pushing Warframe to the side until the transition is complete to avoid correc- - hurting your eyes, its your choice

Edited by Uhkretor
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19 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

if you think that the new system is hurtful to your eyes, let me put this from a medical perspective. Humans are creatures of habits, the higher you set your brightness to see all the dark spots like you're pointing a flashlight to them, the more brightness your eyes require. Eventually, you'll end up putting the brightness all the way to 100, rendering you practically blind towards several elements presented by the Warframe client, and then you'll increase your screen brightness values... And at the end, you'll step outside and everywhere you look at, you'll see nothing bright. A regular day, at noon, will appear like the end of the day, more or less 6pm...

Are you stupid or something? I dont need you talking nonesense s-hi-t over my serious threat. You can go now. youre not helping so you can just as well stay away.

I will not
and I Can not
play Warframe until this is fixed. I dont need a black and White contrast. I dont need a game to challenge my eye sight. I dont need the graphics to blind me one way or the other. DE needs to get their s-hi-t together and stop sh-ittin-g on the players with eyesight less than 20/20.

I know people that have even worse eye sight than me, and they had trouble before playing any map in snow or bright tilesets like the void. This new light engine makes everything worse for everyone. I cannot understand how ANYONE can prefer this sh-itsh-ow over the old version.

And if none of you have a serious solution for this Display settings, or sympathy for the poor gamers with eye health issues, then you can Stay away.
and close this threat.
because I am done.

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2 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

Are you stupid or something? I dont need you talking nonesense s-hi-t over my serious threat. You can go now. youre not helping so you can just as well stay away.

Nice going. And insulting me to boot...

Your "serious threat" isn't more serious than mine, since I can't step outside without giving 2 hours for my eyes to adjust their sensitivity to sunlight with sunglasses due to their excessive photosensitivity. So, unless your thing is flashbanging your face for kicks, your "serious threat" isn't more serious than mine.

2 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

I will not
and I Can not
play Warframe until this is fixed.

Then don't. Like I said, its your choice. I even suggested putting Warframe aside until the lighting on those tiles are properly adjusted.

2 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

And if none of you have a serious solution for this Display settings, or sympathy for the poor gamers with eye health issues, then you can Stay away.
and close this threat.

The last thing you can do is to victimize yourself, even if its a serious health condition. Remember, I can't step outside without giving 2 hours for my eyes to adjust their sensitivity to sunlight with sunglasses due to their excessive photosensitivity.

2 hours ago, DavidCurser said:

I dont need the graphics to blind me one way or the other. DE needs to get their s-hi-t together and stop sh-ittin-g on the players with eyesight less than 20/20.

I know people that have even worse eye sight than me, and they had trouble before playing any map in snow or bright tilesets like the void. This new light engine makes everything worse for everyone. I cannot understand how ANYONE can prefer this sh-itsh-ow over the old version.

Only 30% of the world's population has 20/20 eyesight, and that's not even a thing considered for games unless you're looking at a small screen, at over 5 miles away.

"By everyone else" you're referring to just you and the people you personally know with worse eye sight than you? If so, then you're absolutely right...

However, you and your acquaintances are nothing more than tiny drops in the vast ocean that is "the worldwide population". DE isn't going to adjust to a few "tiny drops", they are going to adjust this to the "worldwide population" ocean. Some people like it, some people hate it, its all down to choices.

You, however, seem to be focused on bashing on anyone that doesn't belong to [DE] even though you are being assisted, and boosted, by people that are having the same lighting problems as you are... And since no one is taking your outbursts the wrong way, and they are keeping their assistance and boost it in order to give higher relevance to lighting on critical tiles, you decided to bash against [DE] for not solving your problem for last year.

Things don't work like that, anywhere. Not even in the military, not even in space exploration agencies.

 

@[DE]Linkski, I'll be posting screenshots at 50/50 of critically affected tiles to help point out which tileset should be revised more urgently.

Edited by Uhkretor
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Ok, here are a few screenshots I took from Corpus Planet tiles and Void tiles. I hope these help out. Let me know if you need more.

- https://imgur.com/a/s5cEKXR

 

Edit: Using the default settings at 1920x1080 resolution, with Screen Shake, Dynamic Resolution, Depth of Field and Motion Blur options disabled.

Edited by Uhkretor
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