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At What Part of The Game Do You Think The Majority of NEW Players Quit The Game?

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On 2019-10-03 at 7:52 PM, FrostDragoon said:

Those are pretty bad reasons and I suspect that the game is better off without them, except for point 2--the junctions ARE the direction of what to do next, so if you see something that says "Do this list of things to proceed" and you can't figure out to do that list, that's definitely on that person, not the game.

Were you addressing me? I couldn't tell.

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The main three i know of is scaning cephalon fragments on mars, The scan targets for simaris in the new strange, and finally after beating vors prize and not knowing what the hell to do

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6 hours ago, (NSW)Edcaous said:

Pay for a slot and color every 7 days? What?

Get 5 platinum after 7 days gameplay... ...Uhh... I'm a bit confused...

Yeah, this reeks of someone who has no clue trying to add a bad opinion which is based on ignorance. I mean, you can make 5p a day just by running NM missions and selling the mods. While I agree this game does have some pretty bad forms of p2w in it, it's made tolerable by the fact that you can get plat from other players.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, (NSW)Edcaous said:

That was part of the old UI, it's gone now. Of course, most veteran players don't care, many of them still like the old version for whatever reason.

"Pay for a slot and color every 7 days?" What?

"Get 5 platinum after 7 days gameplay"... ...Uhh... I'm a bit confused...


Where is that new UI? When I want a BP I either go via

"Arsenal-Equip- find item for plat-buy-select BP for credits.."
of
"market-same process......"

Is there a third option to find directly BP without having the need to click BUY on a Platinum listed price? Apparently I could find the cash grab options above, but not the one you point to so please help me ūüėě

 

On "Pay for a slot and color every 7 days?" - it's simple, as a new player I constantly unlock and grind WFs. That is just by following the main and side quest lines.

I have 4 now in Foundry and they need slots.. You can of course argue that one is not supposed to keep all WFs, but at least primes and quest-obtainable are to be kept at all cost, so a new player would have to buy slots regularly until he/she caps the need/WFs/credit card (whatever comes first). 75p for color palettes is even beyond discussion tbh..
Also bear in mind what is the chance for a new player to get platinum on discount. Else we're speaking of full pay2play title price of 50 Euros by first 100h gameplay. Ergo - no free2play from new player's perspective at this stage.


On the "5 plat per 7 days gameplay" topic - You have to think from new person's perspective, not having 1000h grind behind. If I go through my Inventory I have lots of stuff that cost 1-3p each and several that cost up to 10-20. But I need those and will be needing them + more as I progress. It's not feasible to expect and claim that new players can easily make Plat in game by several reasons:
-they need to collect stuff not get rid of it
-they need to know what is the rarity and value of the stuff, before even approaching the Market
-they need to spend way more than they get from RNG at that stage (one Prime WF needs a slot and a potato at least, that could easily cost me 1/2 of Inventory currently).
-Nightmare is NOT new player's content. Same applies for ESO and so on. The places where good loot drops are not easily accessible at the start
and so on. All those are not a problem, just reasons why it's not reasonable to expect new players getting plat easily.


I'm not saying it's impossible, terrible, unbearable. I'm just sharing my impressions. No idea why some comments are toxic and mean, I thought the idea of the thread is to give developers feedback to improve the marketing and polish the stuff. I'm here to read/write/play/learn so obviously I haven't thrown away all entirely and I'm looking for workaround of the issues I face.. but I hope devs aren't following the trend here to call new players/customer "ignorant" and "having no clue", very few game studios can afford that nowadays and even they don't get away easily with that..

Edited by DerDzvero

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On 2019-09-12 at 12:44 AM, --Brandt-- said:

Judging by Reddit and being in Twitch streams, a ton of new players complain about the crafting times and waiting 3 days for a frame. So they stop playing.

this was the reason i stopped playeing the first time, and second time, like 6 years ago.
then 4 months ago i came back, and really started to understand what the game was about, now i can't let a week go by without a dose of warframe.

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When they start to discover new bugs every day in addition to bugs that has existed for years.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, DerDzvero said:

Is there a third option to find directly BP without having the need to click BUY on a Platinum listed price? Apparently I could find the cash grab options above, but not the one you point to so please help me ūüėě

IT. IS. LITERALLY RIGHT UNDER THE PURCHASEafap9pnbq8431.png BUTTON... 

Keep in mind that most of the money DE makes usually comes from experienced players who usually have completed a good chunk of the game. Not newer ones.

Typically, its: 1. Find item in Market, 2. Click on "BLUEPRINT."

9 hours ago, DerDzvero said:

You can of course argue that one is not supposed to keep all WFs, but at least primes and quest-obtainable are to be kept at all cost, so a new player would have to buy slots regularly until he/she caps the need/WFs/credit card (whatever comes first). 75p for color palettes is even beyond discussion tbh..
Also bear in mind what is the chance for a new player to get platinum on discount. Else we're speaking of full pay2play title price of 50 Euros by first 100h gameplay. Ergo - no free2play from new player's perspective at this stage.

I have about 300 hours, and I have yet to purchase platinum at all in this game. Many color palettes are attainable for free.

Slots are a problem DE needs to address for newer players, but honestly? As far as problems go, they weren't that bad. If I remember correctly, I immediately bought a bunch of weapon slots with my starting plat, and the rest came from free items that came with slots, like anniversary weapons. I'll agree though, that 75 platinum for some palettes aren't worth it,

I built my first prime much later, so if you're starting, maybe you shouldn't be focusing on them? They aren't they big of an upgrade. (Don't know why they aren't mastery locked)

9 hours ago, DerDzvero said:

You have to think from new person's perspective, not having 1000h grind behind. If I go through my Inventory I have lots of stuff that cost 1-3p each and several that cost up to 10-20. But I need those and will be needing them + more as I progress. It's not feasible to expect and claim that new players can easily make Plat in game by several reasons:
-they need to collect stuff not get rid of it
-they need to know what is the rarity and value of the stuff, before even approaching the Market
-they need to spend way more than they get from RNG at that stage (one Prime WF needs a slot and a potato at least, that could easily cost me 1/2 of Inventory currently).

I can't relate at all friend. I personally didn't remember needing that much platinum at all early-game. I didn't even touch potatoes til MR 6+. Same goes for trading chat, I'm a Switch player, and not a lot of people buy things like they do on PC/other console. You mentioned earlier about platinum discounts, which separates us even further. Console players don't get them at all.

9 hours ago, DerDzvero said:

No idea why some comments are toxic and mean, I thought the idea of the thread is to give developers feedback to improve the marketing and polish the stuff. I'm here to read/write/play/learn so obviously I haven't thrown away all entirely and I'm looking for workaround of the issues I face.. but I hope devs aren't following the trend here to call new players/customer "ignorant" and "having no clue", very few game studios can afford that nowadays and even they don't get away easily with that..

People are being "toxic" because you started off with a statement that seemed completely false.

If you're looking for help, we can give it to you, but from your original post, it was almost as if you were describing a different game.

Edited by (NSW)Edcaous
clarity.
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The moment they get Saryn and use it for the first time, while trying hard not to fall asleep, probably.

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34 minutes ago, (NSW)Edcaous said:

IT. IS. LITERALLY RIGHT UNDER THE PURCHASEafap9pnbq8431.png BUTTON... 

Keep in mind that most of the money DE makes usually comes from experienced players who usually have completed a good chunk of the game. Not newer ones.

Typically, its: 1. Find item in Market, 2. Click on "BLUEPRINT."


Right, that one is indeed clear. I'm mainly using the Arsenal-> WF/Weapon->Equip path, where it still asks me to agree on purchase for Plat and then carefully select that option on next screen.Not sure where my statement was false here to be honest, but that is irrelevant. On the rest - I'm now sure we're playing a different game (not only due to platform difference) so there is no way we understand each other. Nothing wrong with that, we'll be drawing different pictures of same object (under diffent lightning conditions and view angles of course). For ED's sake let's hope I'm a minority and you are correct ;) 
Have fun and all the best
 

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11 hours ago, DerDzvero said:


Right, that one is indeed clear. I'm mainly using the Arsenal-> WF/Weapon->Equip¬†path, where it still asks me to agree on purchase for Plat and then carefully select that option on next screen.Not sure where my statement was false here to be honest, but that is irrelevant.¬†On the rest - I'm now sure we're playing a different game (not only due to platform difference) so there is no way we understand each other. Nothing wrong with that, we'll be drawing different pictures of same object (under diffent lightning conditions and view angles of course). For ED's sake let's hope I'm a minority and you are correct ūüėČ
Have fun and all the best
 

If you're going to deliberately choose the wrong path, that's on you.

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Too much stuff to do, such less time to waste.

Wake up in the morning by the sweet mother void Lotus sound with some ugly Therminator who's want to kill you with a poor tutorial / guide how to robot.

Where to get weapons and warframes? What should i do first? What is that ugly alien dog/cat and where can i get them. I'm broke, need credits for food(what?!?). What is that glowing blue mysterious sphere. Oh my god, i can slide jump?!? (bullet jump,took me long enough to learn).

Over all, overwhelming things that you should do at the same time that cause confusing since Warframe is about grind(which is fun).

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1 hour ago, GrumpyBee said:

Too much stuff to do, such less time to waste.

Wake up in the morning by the sweet mother void Lotus sound with some ugly Therminator who's want to kill you with a poor tutorial / guide how to robot.

Where to get weapons and warframes? What should i do first? What is that ugly alien dog/cat and where can i get them. I'm broke, need credits for food(what?!?). What is that glowing blue mysterious sphere. Oh my god, i can slide jump?!? (bullet jump,took me long enough to learn).

Over all, overwhelming things that you should do at the same time that cause confusing since Warframe is about grind(which is fun).

This partly describes how I feel. I'm trying the game out again. Last time I played was right after Nova Prime release about 5 years ago. I had done just about everything in the game. At that time, end game was vault runs & flipping nova prime blueprints for plat. PvP had just been released and it was extremely rough. I quit because I didn't want to do the forma grind as it was just a meaningless grind without more difficult content than we already had access to. 

Now I'm back and have no idea what's going on since 5 years ago. There's a million new "things" to do all over the place and there's no explanation for anything. The game seems pretty dead at these low levels despite steam saying there was 50k people playing today. Not sure where all these people are, but they aren't in my region and at my level. They are all somewhere else doing something else and I don't know how to get where they are. I've done some soloing but it's really not fun. Takes way too long for too little reward compared to having a team mate and obliterating everything without much effort (same as it was back in 2015, except there were plenty of people playing at all times)

If I quit, it'll be because I've no idea what's going on and I can't be bothered to play another game that requires me to maintain a spreadsheet just to keep track of what needs done when and why

Edited by PyrrhoOfElis
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On 2019-10-08 at 3:49 PM, (NSW)Edcaous said:

Keep in mind that most of the money DE makes usually comes from experienced players who usually have completed a good chunk of the game. Not newer ones.

It's the opposite. They make their money from inpatient new players that want everything instantly.

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On 2019-10-04 at 3:25 AM, FrostDragoon said:

It's not as if I defend everything they do,

Could've fooled me since all you do is defend everything they do and go after whoever disagrees.

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1 hour ago, Ephemiel said:

It's the opposite. They make their money from inpatient new players that want everything instantly.

Actually it depends on what is being purchased.

I'd guess new players tend to buy pre-built things, potatoes and slots, while more long term players spend money on cosmetics, decorations and side utilities like Shawzins (and Riven slots depending on the player).

But outside of seeing their accounting information I wouldn't know which of the two makes up a larger portion overall.

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How about the pain of giving over a catalyst and reactor for syndicates. In early game its like post-partum. Leaves a lasting sting knowing you need them for the myriad of weapons and frames!?!

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I know when I first started I quit when I was the crafting times, but that was years ago, so I can speak for the current new players.

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I think the point at which most new players start quitting, is when they've done most of the nodes and are starting to get near the point where they need to build end-game gear to start enjoying themselves again. [Around MR 10 or so, I think...]

As for me, I powered through it and, after a break to refresh myself, got a decently-powered Arca Plasmor that allows me to comfortably do the majority of content, but for new players, I feel that the moment they run into level 50 to 60+ enemies, which many lightly-modded weapons with no forma won't do much against, is the time most of them ditch the game.

It also doesn't help that a lot of them hate the time it takes just to get a new frame, on top of the low amount of starting slots, plus build times for both frames and weapons.

My only real suggestions for countering this are as follows;

#1 create "locked slots" for frames gotten specifically through the currently available quest lines, and award these frames fully-built upon completion of said quests. [Limbo Theorem, etc]

Think Umbra Excal free slot, but applied to quest frames.

These slots will house ONLY the warframes gotten through said quests; the other initial slots everyone starts with will still be there, but will only house Primes and other none-official-quest frames.[Wisp etc]

This will encourage players to experiment with more frames sooner, and will soften the blow when they find out that other gear takes time to build, like, for example, Prime frames being built part by part takeing 3 days without real money rushing.

#2 At some point very early on [perhaps upon their first acquisition of a new weapon type before MR4 or 5?], award players with a 4-pack of "essential" mods, with a couple of upgrade dots already added into them, alongside the tutorial explaining what endo is, how to get it, and how that links with Forma later on.

For instance, when they get their first pellet-based shotgun primary, give them a 4 pack of mods that fit into almost any other pellet-shotty build, which will help them understand what they should be looking for.

Heck, if they want to take it a step further, make some quests or missions award these basic weapons with the mods already added in.

That way, by the time they've gotten through the nodes, they've got plenty of stuff to help them learn the ropes, adjust their strategies, and get a feel for their favorite types, without the immense grind that they'll have to do for powerful gear later on.

The shop already has a form of this for elemental mods; think that, but through a tutorial quest or something similar.

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7 hours ago, Ephemiel said:

Could've fooled me since all you do is defend everything they do and go after whoever disagrees.

You seriously don't read many of my posts if you believe this, lmao. I may be insulted if it wasn't so laughably ignorant.

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As a new player considering on weather to keep it casual or give up completely:

  • The grind is impossible considering my real life obligations. I'm past the stage where staying up overnight or devoting whole weekends to games is a thing
  • Completed the second dream recently, then realising that I am nowhere near minmaxing anything, something that I always did when in single player RPGs. It feeds to the first point.

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46 minutes ago, oreom said:

As a new player considering on weather to keep it casual or give up completely:

  • The grind is impossible considering my real life obligations. I'm past the stage where staying up overnight or devoting whole weekends to games is a thing
  • Completed the second dream recently, then realising that I am nowhere near minmaxing anything, something that I always did when in single player RPGs. It feeds to the first point.

Not to sound harsh, but it sounds like it's not the right kind of game for you until something changes, because those aren't really issues with the game itself. It's very MMO-like, so to compare it to other games, it would be like hitting level 40 in vanilla WoW and getting discouraged because you have so much left to go.

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I am not directly answering the question, but what I think could REALLY benefit warframe and new player's experience is a 'mind map' of your overall progress (kinda like something that is present in Pathologic 2).

It would track all your progress, you rank, your available resources, unlocked planets, your current mods. It would have a "soft" progression path, with certain weapons and warframes being closer on the overall web to the beginning stage (depending on rank requirement, resource requeremnt etc.) and others further away. When you hover over a certain warframe or weapon, it tells you all the required resources, planets that have these resources, sources of blueprints, and shows your "relative" progress (how many of the resources do you have, how many of the necessary planets you have unlocked etc.).

In a seprate tab or window, you could have a quest "mind map" which, without spoilers, would provide a player with info on how far did he progress, where can he find "the next thing", and what requerements does he need to meet.

Additionally, it can also track your mods, show the essential mods (like intesify, streamline, vigor, etc) that you lack and show where to find them (and what is the probability). This section can also remind you of which weapons\armor\warframes that you currently use lack mods or reactors (a mistake I feel quite a few new players make, not making sure they have the mods equipped and then dying too much to basic enemies).

Finally, this "mind map" can have a new-player "suggested" progression path, that shows them what frames\weapons\planets to get first, and what quests to do first. It may not be the optimal path, but it will be something a new player can follow without feeling lost. After some time, when the new player understands the game more, he can turn off the "suggested progression path" (make it not visible).

This way, any new player would have a better understanding of the amount of content that is present in this game, how to progress, what things to do first, where are different resources, how many questlines does he have left, without having to go to numerous different menus and wiki pages.

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1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

Not to sound harsh, but it sounds like it's not the right kind of game for you until something changes, because those aren't really issues with the game itself. It's very MMO-like, so to compare it to other games, it would be like hitting level 40 in vanilla WoW and getting discouraged because you have so much left to go.

You are not wrong in that, the grind was what put me off MMOs in the past. Probably will spend the random hour or two casually, until I get a switch or a dog.

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