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At What Part of The Game Do You Think The Majority of NEW Players Quit The Game?

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On 2019-10-19 at 11:41 AM, FrostDragoon said:

It isn't that I entirely disagree. I mentioned earlier that I can easily see room for the game to improve certain things about the new player experience, and I would prefer that the frustration they feel would only be from difficulty rather than confusion. Where we do disagree is that I see these as low level complaints from people who likely quit anything real easily. The suggestions you offered are like taking some soft classical music that you listen to at a volume of 2 or 3 and ramping it up to 11 and then putting a megaphone next to the speakers. It's unnecessary and will make a lot of people upset. Instead, turn it up to about 4 and change the station. To move out of the analogy and into specifics, I don't think it would be hard to include a pictographic Help index on the main menu (one spot above Exit/Quit). Plenty of games do this and it works out pretty well without requiring huge overhauls in the game's systems to accommodate players that need it spelled out a bit more.

Here's one from PSO2 explaining how Rings work:

pso2-2019-06-16-05-59-03-576.png

It's pretty straightforward, so it just has to cover relevant topics for brand new players:

- How MR works

- How the Star Chart works, especially junctions

- How quests and the Alert window work

- Modding tutorial (though I found this to be self-explanatory, personally)

- How to find blueprints in the shop that you can build along with weapons that don't need to be built (without spending plat)

These would all be good to address, even if the only thing that isn't obvious to most players I've met is how MR works.

 

I spend a lot of my play time either farming for gear I don't have or helping new players get on their feet. I'm sure people might take the tone of some of these replies as dismissive, but it's simply a matter of, "How much effort are you willing to put in to understand the game?" The vast majority of the game is designed like the old Mega Man games--learn by doing. You will make mistakes, but you learn better from mistakes than by any other means.

The biggest criticism I've always levied against DE with regard to new players is how much p2w sh*t is thrown in your face when you just start the game. Unless those players have the wherewithal to ask in chat about that stuff, they will get a very wrong impression about the game. Despite the trolls we regularly see in chat, there are plenty of people willing to give advice, answer questions, and help people out. Huh, weird... it's almost as if it's an online game or something.

I honestly agree... with the things that you covered but I would also add more of a direct path to getting to end of the narrative, then have side quests, and after they have done those things they can go grind for more frames, do game modes or gear to an endgame.

If DE doesn't make it flop. I think though that redoing some of the main story quests leading to the second dream will help make the story better, and will make the second dream less of a shock of how poorly done most of the content is. However building up after the second dream will be beneficial because it will make the dept better and people will notice the upward trend of the improvement.

Though I feel that going from Vor's quest to the Sacrifice. When up then at the second dream, peaked, mildly went down then dropped fairly more, then came up abruptly to the level of content as Vor's Quest. It only took me like 2 days of real time to play the Sacrifice after a few breaks. I really enjoy the game and am glad for it. I just hope that the will be a mildly more distinct road map for new players.
 

And fix some of the other aging content. I enjoy it though. Although they could have made Grendel be the one to be obtained through disruption and make Gauss a quest, but it is how it has happened. But I do think that there is some more thing that can be changed but that will take a lot of text to get out and even then I might not get the right idea out. Or a practical if we are being technical.

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On 2019-09-22 at 5:15 AM, FrostDragoon said:

I have to disagree that complexity alone is responsible for that difference. Partially because older games taught you how to play through design and expected you to try all the buttons to learn the controls. The other part is because you can compartmentalize every system in Warframe into something that isn't hard to understand. I think it's more that players are too lazy/entitled to believe they should have to go look for their own answers these days, because there isn't a question that a newbie could reasonably ask that the answer hasn't been provided hundreds of times.

 

The one thing DE could do to resolve a lot of the "Vor's Prize, now what?" syndrome is to have the Lotus inbox you some tutorial directions in the form of:

-Explain what MR is and how it is raised, why it's important, and the cheap/easy methods to get more early (MK1 weapons, for example).

-Explain how the Star Chart works and how to progress in it, including Junctions.

-Explain in more depth how mods work, polarities, and the importance of increasing mod rank. Maybe even provide about 200 Endo to get them started and some pointers on how to get more.

That's it. Most of these are self-explanatory enough that just these instructions would give enough direction for players to branch out and explore to progress their game. The game itself wouldn't really need anything changed on this front.

I like that and maybe as they get better make the Orokin things less difficult. I mean I don't have much endo but I could use my excess mods to do it.

 

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On 2019-10-03 at 3:03 AM, IIWingSaberII said:

Unfortunately in the hindsight, I don't work for DE nor have comprehensive stats for it that exist before me in front of my desk where the grind is endless and RNG is my cruel mistress. 

If the player wishes to skip the progression by the paying and winning the game easily, you do realize the obvious fact, no mind will love to stick is the simple rule in the textbook which is a given fact as a dopamine in their brains being registered and shall keep seeking new content in order to get attracted. 

Essentially, here are the following thoughts of new players and vets will quit at any junction in this game according to my opinion :-

  • If you give everything for free, like a father who gives to the child who never works hard, they will definitely quit at any junction in order to skip challenges be in any context of a human life. Literally, spoiled minds can never appreciate anybody's work and process behind it unless the kindness is brought to halt and Devs will face endless misery of  creating new content for each update rather patching the previous ones in order to satiate every players mind. Hence, the community stays divided and starts playing spartans to conquer over here or in-game for that matter. In a nutshell, kindness is your enemy and don't go overboard with it, please.
  • Excessive payment wall like booster packages is fruitful to company in terms of microtranscations as we all deliciously love food arriving from branded fast food corner in a single purchase which serves as another dopamine factor of any player's brain and brag about it to other players after joining the random public session. Seriously, are these kind of players trying to assist with salty thoughts placed towards rest of squad members, just because you bought a booster or received it for free from the sortie rewards.This point of this thinking is still bizarre apart for obvious point unless you wish for everyone to reciprocate on each statement I came across during my grind in all years of playing with randoms especially new players talk like I won a biggest lottery of my life and waiting for me to respond in false positive manner - "Hey, it's awesome to have your booster and will assist during our grind, join in, please". The cold reality truth of being vet is that we want to you to join in our squad in order to improve the drop rate that is set by game design regardless your booster and I don't try to objectify in any angles like a PvP player does for K/D in a match.
  • The biggest spicy talks has been all about grind for both new players and vets as we rock in the same boat yet for some odd reason, we are united on this part. Sadly, DE turns a blind eye while drinking their wine having smug faces on the camera during a livestream. Is this some of canadian trait or culture, I prefer not to delve into this anymore over the years and remain stoic as usual nor have a choice in this matter to begin with. 
  • DE loves to hear you out, if you're a star studded or a mini celebrity on the social media. If not, they are completely dismissive about giving any response to any individual unless your post get rated as hot in order to get their attention. Ultimately, what is the point being vocal on the forums since our opinions doesn't matter to them in the end. In all cases, I can never speak to a human being who shut their minds towards me and placed a wall of ignorance in front of my eyes. 
  • The developers of this game has been on the following corroded path by bringing in, the true gambling factor such as riven mods which is no different from loot boxes which has made it worst in terms of grinding factors rather to focus on curtailing it anytime soon. However, the choice we have in our hands is that either accept or leave it. 

In conclusion, as I speak here from my experience and knowing the DE over the years, they couldn't care less about being any individual being vocal in any format, they will dismiss it at their discretion. As they say, give them a cake of grofit, people will listen. If not, nobody cares in the end is the cold reality we live in this world. 

P.S. I do sincerely apologize as my above points may have crucified and not a vent rather speaking my genuine experiences as individual player out here in this forums. 

I think this man deserves a Gold Medal of Honor 

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3 hours ago, Excaulibar said:

Yeah so I was thinking, maybe depending on the difficulty of getting the frame it would vary how much time should be spent...

Ex. MR1 starts to build a frame say Rhino, if he or she doesn't quite have godly weapons for their MR then the time for the blueprint should be taken down. However if the same MR1 has the godly weapons for their MR then make the components crafting time 3 hours shorter and the build time for the blueprint vary. 

Now for a MR 27, it is different. they know that they basically have found the godly weapons required to get them the components and blueprints faster. But the lessen the grindiness for some of them. but they will still have to wait 3 days for it since they have a higher rank.

Now making the grindiness for everything slightly lower, by increasing the percentages. 

Ex. Ash. You farm the same mission, yet have a small chance of getting a part then a low chance of getting the one part you need.

Ex. Primes. Farming bounties should have a greater chance of getting a part, a better chance of getting the relic of the prime you want, a change might help. Same goes with missions

I like the approach, but not the how.

I would actually simplify it according to the drop source.

Star Chart boss drop frames: Parts build in 1 hour, complete frame builds in 3. 

Star Chart mission mode frames: Parts build in 3, complete frame in 6. (This is stuff like Ivara, Harrow, Octavia, etc)

Open world bounty frames: parts in 6, complete in 12.

Quest frames: parts in 6, complete in 12.

Post-game frames: Parts in 12, complete in 24. (This is stuff like ESO, Arbitration, Sorties, Eidolons, etc if/when they have frames from these sources.)

Clan Dojo and NightWave frames: parts in 12, complete in 36.

Prime and special variants (such as Vandal, Prisma, Wraith, etc): same as now.

Weapons should all be reduced to 12 or less, except for the variants mentioned above.

 

Granted, this is based on the assumption that DE actually wants to keep their arbitrary long build times. I'd rather remove build times entirely and remove the cash-grabby, p2w-looking "Rush" option outright.

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19 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

Granted, this is based on the assumption that DE actually wants to keep their arbitrary long build times. I'd rather remove build times entirely and remove the cash-grabby, p2w-looking "Rush" option outright.

I see that part as well.

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On 2019-10-18 at 7:43 PM, FrostDragoon said:

Warframe does better than most of them.

Yeah, you're utterly hopeless. Somehow implying that Warframe does better than Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade 2, Code Vein, FFXIV, etc.

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On 2019-10-25 at 1:26 PM, Ephemiel said:

Yeah, you're utterly hopeless. Somehow implying that Warframe does better than Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade 2, Code Vein, FFXIV, etc.

I think they mean in terms of some of the mechanics and the fact that the feel is somewhat better. But i see mostly why you would say that.

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I think I spend more time watching youtube and the wiki to figure things out than playing. But coming from more survival games I am used to minimal hand holding. But that in its self is daunting for new players.  

I made way to many mistakes in warframe.  I am MR 10 now.  I just unlocked Saturn lol.  

Like all games that offer crafting I have just stuck with that model.  Make stuff. Constantly at my foundry making things.  Anything and everything.  Then running missions to make more things.  I have sooo many weapons.  

But I suck at using them.  I'm not great in missions. I didn't play the game.  Instead I grind forma to make weapons and frames better.  

But that does not make you a decent player.  I have so many tricked out weapons and toys to play with but cant even manage a proper slide attack.

But I do this in every game. 

I am now at a point where is just die during missions. 

If I just stuck with the Braton and a sword or basic stuff and practiced like others told me to do then I would be less frustrated.  

I'm not a quitter though. But in all seriousness if I learned more about elemental types and how and when to use them I would be in a much better state.

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3 hours ago, Hexsing said:

I think I spend more time watching youtube and the wiki to figure things out than playing. But coming from more survival games I am used to minimal hand holding. But that in its self is daunting for new players.  

I made way to many mistakes in warframe.  I am MR 10 now.  I just unlocked Saturn lol.  

Like all games that offer crafting I have just stuck with that model.  Make stuff. Constantly at my foundry making things.  Anything and everything.  Then running missions to make more things.  I have sooo many weapons.  

But I suck at using them.  I'm not great in missions. I didn't play the game.  Instead I grind forma to make weapons and frames better.  

But that does not make you a decent player.  I have so many tricked out weapons and toys to play with but cant even manage a proper slide attack.

But I do this in every game. 

I am now at a point where is just die during missions. 

If I just stuck with the Braton and a sword or basic stuff and practiced like others told me to do then I would be less frustrated.  

I'm not a quitter though. But in all seriousness if I learned more about elemental types and how and when to use them I would be in a much better state.

For elemental, you don't have to get too fancy. First of all, if you're frame can run Corrosive Projection, do it. Secondly, lots of frames have armor strip as part of their kit these days. If yours does, you can probably focus on something other than Corrosive (though it's still strong vs Grineer). Otherwise, Corrosive + Fire or Cold, but preferably not Blast, is a pretty general purpose element that's good against most things. Radiation + Viral is too, except certain things (like Heavy Gunners). That's probably the "tl:dr" version.

Learning how to min-max them can be a lot more involved, especially if you know what faction you'll be going against ahead of time. Learning when to use status weapons and when to use crit weapons plays into this too, and your frame's capacity for armor stripping will as well (Frost, Ash, Saryn, etc). Inversely, if your frame has a damage amplifier, that might influence it the other way (like Nova, Chroma, Rhino, Octavia, Banshee, etc). As a general rule, if you lack armor stripping or damage boosting on the frame, I would lean toward status weapons. The scaling on Crit with those multipliers gets so ridiculous that heavy status effects isn't so necessary. Ofc, you could use a hybrid weapon if you just want something more general purpose. Hybrids generally don't tend to have as high of top end potential, but they are certainly enough for the star chart. It's also worth noting that if you're playing in a squad and coordinating your CP auras correctly, you can skip most of the status stuff outright in favor of those boosting frames and crit weapons. Nova + CP + Lex Prime is one easy example that is pretty affordable and accessible to most players.

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I've seen a LOT of people quit around MR2-3.  If they make it past that point, the next heavy loss is somewhere around MR8-9.
That's just from my experience mentoring new players and when they stop showing up for whatever reason. 

 

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4 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

For elemental, you don't have to get too fancy. First of all, if you're frame can run Corrosive Projection, do it. Secondly, lots of frames have armor strip as part of their kit these days. If yours does, you can probably focus on something other than Corrosive (though it's still strong vs Grineer). Otherwise, Corrosive + Fire or Cold, but preferably not Blast, is a pretty general purpose element that's good against most things. Radiation + Viral is too, except certain things (like Heavy Gunners). That's probably the "tl:dr" version.

Learning how to min-max them can be a lot more involved, especially if you know what faction you'll be going against ahead of time. Learning when to use status weapons and when to use crit weapons plays into this too, and your frame's capacity for armor stripping will as well (Frost, Ash, Saryn, etc). Inversely, if your frame has a damage amplifier, that might influence it the other way (like Nova, Chroma, Rhino, Octavia, Banshee, etc). As a general rule, if you lack armor stripping or damage boosting on the frame, I would lean toward status weapons. The scaling on Crit with those multipliers gets so ridiculous that heavy status effects isn't so necessary. Ofc, you could use a hybrid weapon if you just want something more general purpose. Hybrids generally don't tend to have as high of top end potential, but they are certainly enough for the star chart. It's also worth noting that if you're playing in a squad and coordinating your CP auras correctly, you can skip most of the status stuff outright in favor of those boosting frames and crit weapons. Nova + CP + Lex Prime is one easy example that is pretty affordable and accessible to most players.

This is good advise for more new players.  For sure.  I am good now.  Just wish I would have known this much earlier.  I love denfense missions.  Which is basically how I did what I did and leveled my weapons.  

Still suck in a lot of situations.  Like darned slide attacks.  

I main Nyx and Nekros mainly.  With a hint of Wisp here and there.  

Nyx can strip armor with my modified Pacifying bolts.  So I usually use other elements for her like toxin, gas etc.  Because she can already bypass shields and armor with one hit.  

But I really appreciate the info.  Because its the one thing I needed.

Also.  The modding of status weapons vs crit.  I know now. But. I didnt know then.  Knowing the difference between the two are needed and not So well explained unless you Google everything or watch vids.

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4 hours ago, Rahlence said:

I've seen a LOT of people quit around MR2-3.  If they make it past that point, the next heavy loss is somewhere around MR8-9.
That's just from my experience mentoring new players and when they stop showing up for whatever reason. 

 

Very true. Most of the people I know leave at the MR 9 test. Due too the stealth mechanics.  

But you are correct.  Those appear to be when my friends who have played left.  I had someone leave after the pistol aiming test. 6 I think.  And the parkour test.   

Its the 24 hours before you can remaster or retry.  So some people dont progress for days or weeks.  This sends people running.  People are used to instant levels.  Which they get in other games.

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7 hours ago, Hexsing said:

Still suck in a lot of situations.  Like darned slide attacks.  

Want a protip for that one? Remap slide to Q. It's much easier to press frequently than Ctrl (assuming you use defaults). The fluidity is night and day.

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Im left handed.  So I use c as my crouch.  Remapping is a good idea.  I will check that out.  Cuz...just dont slide. Lol.  

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3 hours ago, Hexsing said:

Im left handed.  So I use c as my crouch.  Remapping is a good idea.  I will check that out.  Cuz...just dont slide. Lol.  

You might check out this thread. Someone in there posted an interesting Lefty layout that looks pretty good.

 

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1 hour ago, FrostDragoon said:

You might check out this thread. Someone in there posted an interesting Lefty layout that looks pretty good.

 

Yes.  This helps a great deal

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4 hours ago, Hexsing said:

Yes.  This helps a great deal

Awesome. It'd be a shame for you to not get to experience one of the best things about the gameplay--its fluidity. 👍

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