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VotumPrime

At What Part of The Game Do You Think The Majority of NEW Players Quit The Game?

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15 minutes ago, groznez said:

For those interested in PC achievement data:

  https://steamcommunity.com/stats/Warframe/achievements/

Considering the amount of people playing on Steam daily (tens of thousands), I would say it is fair assessment of PC platform as whole.

It seems majority of people quit within first 10 hours/before reaching MR3. Plus majority of players who reach MR3/10h mark quit before 100h mark.

 

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No idea about specific mission or whatever.  I know nearly everyone I ever invited quit in less than a month, even after I offered to explain anything I could.  Warframe is a giant tangled mass of interconnected systems, and to a new player the learning curve isn't just steep.  It does loops.  "Wait, so I level up and that makes my character a little better.  But I'm at level 30, and you are level 5, and you have three times as much health as I do.  Mods?  Yeah, I equipped the ones I got already.  What are you talking about?  Mods get stronger?  How do I level those up?  I have to feed mods to my mods to make them grow?  O.O  How does that make any sense?"

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Depends on the player. Know a guy who quit after trying to get rhino because he didn't like the wait time and didn't want to pay to speed it up. This could be adjusted so starting frames take less then 3 days to make. (mag, volt, excel and arguably frost, rhino and oberon).

Great idea.

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44 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Guitar Hero Space Edittion, Sports (Lunaro), 2D Fighting Game (Frame Fighter), Bullet Hell (Wyrmius)

Minigames count as core Warframe experiences?

You think someone really into the FGC is going to pick up Warframe because it has a minigame?

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38 minutes ago, (PS4)wintersfrozen said:

Depends on the player. Know a guy who quit after trying to get rhino because he didn't like the wait time and didn't want to pay to speed it up. This could be adjusted so starting frames take less then 3 days to make. (mag, volt, excel and arguably frost, rhino and oberon).

Some players stop after hitting rank 2 because the story just sort of dead ends for a moment and expects you to continue playing and explore before moving on. this could be amended by just having a progress bar or mini mission to tell you what you need to do before you can move forward.

I personally took a break right around the end of the war within quest as it was a lot to take in at a given point then sort of went dead for a while. Easy fix would be to add in more mini story quests outside of the optional ones for various warframes. (Octavia, nekros, atlas and mirage I believe.)

My bf stopped after Fortuna dropped because he got tired of how many grind walls it took to reach certain goals. A simple fix for this would be to make each level have reward worth getting rather then locking everything behind the final tiers of a grind.

Night wave was another example of a grind wall that was just no fun, though it has been amended slightly to account for some of the issues that were brought up.

There are lots of stopping points in warframe so its hard to say where a new player or any player for that mater may call it a break or call it off entirely. While I don't believe the stats for where new players stop has been made public its hard to estimate too much where the drop off is so it makes it that much harder to try to suggest improvements for a singular part vs the game as an entirety.

Thank you. This was very helpful! ;O

36 minutes ago, Vit0Corleone said:

It's a little weird that only 57% of the Steam players got the "Secrets of the Orokin" achievement, considering the only thing you have to do is find one mod ...

Not sure what to think about that. Maybe just people that checked the game out quickly and wrote it off without even trying?.. idk

That's disturbing to know.

18 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

No idea about specific mission or whatever.  I know nearly everyone I ever invited quit in less than a month, even after I offered to explain anything I could.  Warframe is a giant tangled mass of interconnected systems, and to a new player the learning curve isn't just steep.  It does loops.  "Wait, so I level up and that makes my character a little better.  But I'm at level 30, and you are level 5, and you have three times as much health as I do.  Mods?  Yeah, I equipped the ones I got already.  What are you talking about?  Mods get stronger?  How do I level those up?  I have to feed mods to my mods to make them grow?  O.O  How does that make any sense?"

Lol. If you know anything else come back later. You should get your friend's feedback on it.

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well, getting rid of rivens would fix the delicate balance of new players getting discouraged by the limited inventory space then putting the last nails in the coffin by not having any chance to sell any stuff unless its a riven

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First time they craft something or when the tutorial fails to explain modding adequately.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)CodyXSavageX said:

The lack of understanding the game 

This. This right here, I have to agree 5000000% with 

 

When I first started playing back in like 2014, I played the game and I was going along, doing what I was told and then once I finished the one quest, I was left confused. I left the game because there where too many questions and holes, I didn't know what to do and whatever else 

Skip about 2 years, I meet a guy that says he plays Warframe but wants to play it with other people. We end up reinstalling it and start playing. That's when I realized how good the game started getting. It developed SO DAMN MUCH in the 2 years I was gone. Granted, I still didn't understand wtf was going on, but in time I learned that doing the quests and actually listening to them helps xD

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Usually the issues with complexity of the game, it really isn't intuitive outside of the basic controls and the game really doesn't have a good outline of what to do, and even then as progression happens modding becomes more important (but is barely communicated) which can cause things to feel overly durable by the time players reach Saturn.

Add in the very small selection of starter weapons that don't need wait time/materials and there's also some trouble getting the hook into the fish so to speak.

It just has a large learning cliff and doesn't have enough bait to keep new players invested easily.

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13 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

First time they craft something or when the tutorial fails to explain modding adequately.

This seems to be a problem that's reoccurring and new.

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The lack of weapon and frame slots was really annoying, but I'm an adult so 20 bucks for some plat really is not a big deal. But I understand most gamers are usually younger and probably dont always have even that I guess.

 

It was a quick fix for me to keep on moving. I also bought a few mods instead of farming them to get ahead slightly. I feel like it improved my gameplay a lot as opposed to just starting off purely bare bones.

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I ended up putting Warframe down for a bit when I first looked at the weapon and Warframe mod screens and felt both overwhelmed and like I had no idea what I was supposed to do, even looking at the tutorial (I hadn't even completed Vor's Prize yet). That was around the Octavia's Anthem/Chimera Prologue updates, but I decided to come back about a month or two before the Fortuna update hit console, and in that time I seem to have figured things out just through sheer dedication to playing. I am nearing my 300 day milestone, and everything about this game continues to facinate me, from the level design to the lore. It makes me sad to think about the stuff people are missing out on in this game when they decide to put it down.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)BirdKitty001 said:

I ended up putting Warframe down for a bit when I first looked at the weapon and Warframe mod screens and felt both overwhelmed and like I had no idea what I was supposed to do, even looking at the tutorial (I hadn't even completed Vor's Prize yet). That was around the Octavia's Anthem/Chimera Prologue updates, but I decided to come back about a month or two before the Fortuna update hit console, and in that time I seem to have figured things out just through sheer dedication to playing. I am nearing my 300 day milestone, and everything about this game continues to facinate me, from the level design to the lore. It makes me sad to think about the stuff people are missing out on in this game when they decide to put it down.

I bet lots of new players can relate. I really hope the new player experience really goes into detail.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb VotumPrime:

State what part of the game you think it is and why do you think they quit at that part and what DE should do to remedy it so that things stay interesting and keep these new players from leaving forever. This can be moved to feedback later.

mmh, back when Warframe started at Terminus, you could expect players stop at the point where they reached Venus. There was no articifial lock on Planets, boss nodes marked the end of that planet. Kill Cpt. Vor and you go to Venus, simple as that.

Until this point, the starter weapons were enough to kill armored enemies, but Venus has shielded ones. Even if they managed to conquer Venus, around MR5 or MR6, they were never to be seen again. I had to remove a lot of those players from my FL, because they have been offline for over a year.

I had to buy the Lex to barely be able to complete Venus, this gun was all I had and could rely on. Even with this, Mars was a hellhole. This was even before Damage 2.0.

I remember being stuck in the MR6 "Hole" myself, I have no idea what I did to get out of that.

Nowadays, I think players will quit because their weapons just don't cut it and they lack ressources and credits to get new ones, not to mention slots. They don't even know which weapons they have to buy or build, because there are so many. And here is where the Mastery Rank System shows his dirty face.

You need weapons to get MR exp, but without a new MR, you can't get weapons to gain EXP again. You HAVE to know which weapons are MR fodder and which ones are better kept. Building Weapons costs ressources, some of them only drop on planets those players can't access yet. 

What ressources do you get in the Earth-Venus-Mercury-Earth cycle?

Ferrit, Rubedo, Neurodes, Detonit (Dojo required), Alloy plates, Polymers, Circuits, Fieldron (dojo required), Ferrit, Morphics.

Now tell me, which MR1 to MR3 weapons you can build with these? The MR2 Boltor requires Salvage you cant get until Mars - which is locked until Mercury is played.

Then there are those bridges itself. Have you ever checked in what order you have to play to travel around the system?

Earth-Venus-Mercury-Earth-Mars-Phobos-Void T1-Ceres-Jupiter-Europa-Saturn-Uranus-Neptune-Pluto-Lua-Eris+Sedna

Most of the bridges are even quest locked - and where do you get a new quest? by solving another bridge. So you are constantly playing a planet, doing a quest you barely survive in, open a bridge and do another quest. Let me correct the line.

Vors Price-Earth-Venus-Mercury-Quest-Earth-Mars-Phobos-Void T1-Ceres-Quest-Jupiter-Quest-Europa-Quest-Saturn-Uranus-Quest-Neptune-Quest-Pluto-Quest-Lua-Eris+Sedna

To unlock Sedna, you have to kill Vay Hek - back on Earth, you probably already did at this point.

 

So, what has to go:

  • Solar bridges (Warframe has worked without them before)
  • Orbiter Segments - have everything open from the start, except the Incubator and everything you get from Vor's Price.
  • Scanning stuff - waste of money until Simaris Scanner, which should be default+Sol battery
  • Slots (Why do we need 6 different type of slot)

What has to be improved:

  • Market - added a filter for "Mastery Rank"
  • Quests are enabled by default, you just need to clear the requirements.
  • Instead of individual slots per frame/weapon/etc, all slots should be merged and can be used individually. On 50 slots, who cares if I have 49 Mags and 1 Weapon or 1 mag and 49 weapons? Which means Warframe Slots, Weapon slots, archwing slots don't matter any more, as there is just ONE ITEM for the whole unified inventory. Just "Slots"
  • Have playable tutorials in the Codex for each Mission type. Give them useable tips. Use the simulacrum tileset while doing so.
  • Always show what planet drops what ressource.
  • Be able to search things on the starchart.

 

TL;DR: Warframe is overwhelming as a new player. And there is no hand holding.

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2 hours ago, elmetnuter said:

The first time I saw the mod screen for my warframe I was convinced that it was why I would keep playing. I can imagine the contrary to be true.

Warframe’s modding system has the most depth of any games I’ve played. It’s good for long-term time investment. 

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2 hours ago, VotumPrime said:

State what part of the game you think it is and why do you think they quit at that part

Between Ceres and Neptune. It's when the game forces you to grind to upgrade your stuff just to survive. The game is no longer babying you, and your Braton and Cernos and Kunai won't get you very far

I don't blame these people, they just aren't in the mood for a grindy F2P game, especially one that doesn't make it clear what you should be upgrading first

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16 minutes ago, (XB1)Dex Xean said:

I Agree I vote its right when they see the craft timers and realize how they have to raise their MR.

This seems to be one of the major consensus so far.

16 minutes ago, NoSpax said:

mmh, back when Warframe started at Terminus, you could expect players stop at the point where they reached Venus. There was no articifial lock on Planets, boss nodes marked the end of that planet. Kill Cpt. Vor and you go to Venus, simple as that.

Until this point, the starter weapons were enough to kill armored enemies, but Venus has shielded ones. Even if they managed to conquer Venus, around MR5 or MR6, they were never to be seen again. I had to remove a lot of those players from my FL, because they have been offline for over a year.

I had to buy the Lex to barely be able to complete Venus, this gun was all I had and could rely on. Even with this, Mars was a hellhole. This was even before Damage 2.0.

I remember being stuck in the MR6 "Hole" myself, I have no idea what I did to get out of that.

Nowadays, I think players will quit because their weapons just don't cut it and they lack ressources and credits to get new ones, not to mention slots. They don't even know which weapons they have to buy or build, because there are so many. And here is where the Mastery Rank System shows his dirty face.

You need weapons to get MR exp, but without a new MR, you can't get weapons to gain EXP again. You HAVE to know which weapons are MR fodder and which ones are better kept. Building Weapons costs ressources, some of them only drop on planets those players can't access yet. 

What ressources do you get in the Earth-Venus-Mercury-Earth cycle?

Ferrit, Rubedo, Neurodes, Detonit (Dojo required), Alloy plates, Polymers, Circuits, Fieldron (dojo required), Ferrit, Morphics.

Now tell me, which MR1 to MR3 weapons you can build with these? The MR2 Boltor requires Salvage you cant get until Mars - which is locked until Mercury is played.

Then there are those bridges itself. Have you ever checked in what order you have to play to travel around the system?

Earth-Venus-Mercury-Earth-Mars-Phobos-Void T1-Ceres-Jupiter-Europa-Saturn-Uranus-Neptune-Pluto-Lua-Eris+Sedna

Most of the bridges are even quest locked - and where do you get a new quest? by solving another bridge. So you are constantly playing a planet, doing a quest you barely survive in, open a bridge and do another quest. Let me correct the line.

Vors Price-Earth-Venus-Mercury-Quest-Earth-Mars-Phobos-Void T1-Ceres-Quest-Jupiter-Quest-Europa-Quest-Saturn-Uranus-Quest-Neptune-Quest-Pluto-Quest-Lua-Eris+Sedna

To unlock Sedna, you have to kill Vay Hek - back on Earth, you probably already did at this point.

 

So, what has to go:

  • Solar bridges (Warframe has worked without them before)
  • Orbiter Segments - have everything open from the start, except the Incubator and everything you get from Vor's Price.
  • Scanning stuff - waste of money until Simaris Scanner, which should be default+Sol battery
  • Slots (Why do we need 6 different type of slot)

What has to be improved:

  • Market - added a filter for "Mastery Rank"
  • Quests are enabled by default, you just need to clear the requirements.
  • Instead of individual slots per frame/weapon/etc, all slots should be merged and can be used individually. On 50 slots, who cares if I have 49 Mags and 1 Weapon or 1 mag and 49 weapons? Which means Warframe Slots, Weapon slots, archwing slots don't matter any more, as there is just ONE ITEM for the whole unified inventory. Just "Slots"
  • Have playable tutorials in the Codex for each Mission type. Give them useable tips. Use the simulacrum tileset while doing so.
  • Always show what planet drops what ressource.
  • Be able to search things on the starchart.

 

TL;DR: Warframe is overwhelming as a new player. And there is no hand holding.

SUPER MEGA ULTRA DETAILED TUTORIAL.

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17 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Between Ceres and Neptune. It's when the game forces you to grind to upgrade your stuff just to survive. The game is no longer babying you, and your Braton and Cernos and Kunai won't get you very far

I don't blame these people, they just aren't in the mood for a grindy F2P game, especially one that doesn't make it clear what you should be upgrading first

This one is definitely one of them.

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I once stopped playing when I reached MR2 (around 2014) because waiting 1 to 3 days to get items, plus the grinding was tedious. Another thing was that WF has no end game (except having everything). But came back (because of friends) when Equinox got released and started to log in just for the rewards, now I'm stting at MR 27 just for the fact of having more things than my friends that play for far more hours than me.

 

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I think the game is a bit too "brainy" for most people. But that's why I personally like it. I like figuring stuff out. 

 

You fail and rethink your game plan and try again.

But I totally understand if you're dealing with stuff in life, no one wants to get home and have to think a lot.

 

I guess we're all just smarter than everyone else lol.

 

Edit: you can do other stuff while waiting for stuff in the foundry.

Edited by (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu
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As I see most people who get away from warframe do it early on, mostly intimidated by the complexity of the game and disengaged with a false impretion of pay to win since most of them have no guidance from a vet player.

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Honestly, when they get stuck for Warframe or weapon slots and aren't in a position to spend money.  As new players, they will struggle to acquire much to sell for platinum, and will eventually lose interest in grinding for loot they can't build or claim.  If there were more options to acquire slots it would go a long way.  Nightwave is a good starting point for that.

Edited by i_am-backswing
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3 hours ago, VotumPrime said:

This seems to be a problem that's reoccurring and new.

Those are the two things I see cited most consistently by people who describe themselves as having tried WF, quit, and came back years later to try again. The first is obviously a frustration/ expectation of P2W kneejerk reaction, the latter is a perceived undocumented over-complexity reaction (similar to how people quit Path of Exile after seeing the passive tree). Both are pretty understandable even if you're not the sort of person that reacts to those things in that way, IMO.

The third I'd lay as the "okay I just ignored advice from people who know better and powered through all the content I could reach in a couple months, now I'm totally bored and burned out" type.

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