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At What Part of The Game Do You Think The Majority of NEW Players Quit The Game?

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The part where they see the Market and aren't aware that you don't have to spent Plat to play the game.

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ive had over 10 ppl try out this game and where most of them quit was after beating vor or the 2nd dream but if i had to be honest they would had probly quit on earth.

the first that they said it looked boring at the start and thought it was pay to win. ppl thinking its pay to win is more likely the shop but getting items sounded like a hassle when other  gives u a ton the entire time. they could had just made a full separate credit blueprint section and platinum section in the store without throwing the buy plat stuff in their face at the start of the game. the boring aspect is well it doesnt start u off with any urgency or explanation of whats going on but starts u off in a dull place with a robotic like mom that just tell u to go from a to b without saying whats b really. open world made things confusing cuz i had to explain to most what they had to do and how it works which they then slowly got annoyed with the time gate standing stuff.

part way through a couple mentioned that the story felt pretty weak with little to no guideline. story is fragmented and after thinking back on it, its just really fragmented and even if its not known for its story if it isnt following a consistent flow then it fails to be there at all. stuff like dark souls make it work cuz its meant to be dark, mysterious, and poetic while keeping it together with immersion the whole time. the 2nd dream felt really good to veterans but it dint hit with new players probly cuz they dint have that long awaited feeling of finally learning something while if veterans felt the quality of quest gone down after that i can maybe imagine for newer ppl (and not quality on budgeting but quality of writing choices). while not being able to play some quest with friends also turned it off for some ppl and thought they just wanted to play together.

gameplay isnt as solid as you think especially when u look at other games cuz yes we do play other games. warframe combat just feel like a mix and mesh of a bunch of random things meant to toss it at you just for the sake of tossing it at you rather than making good gameplay. they have no solid formula on how to make combat so u simply jump anywhere u want, spam anything u want, and do whatever u want while u could say it gives freedom it also gives no impact or reasoning to do anything either. talking to yur friends about flanking, what to focus, what to do, planning it out is one of those best moments u get in gaming to have fun with each other but the whole thing with friends in warframe is mainly just to figure out what to talk about outside the game to delude yurself that yur doing a dull grind. when u have zero amount of urgency, complexity, or difficulty then of course ppl are gonna get easily bored, u dont have to make it dark souls hard but if 3 ppl can afk with one doing all the work without a sweat kinda shows something.

back to the aspect of loot, it feels too much like a chore than something to look forward to. slots felt more impact since gear needs to be leveled up so u kind of build a relationship with yur gun that u throw away if u got none, they should of atleast been more generous with like 2-3 more slots at the start. it was annoying for them to just to get a decent amount of guns too which i found ironic and was confused. 1 person said why could they atleast get one each of a sniper, shotgun, and assault rifle just to have the general feel of them and i thought damn its probly felt anthem being greedy with loot and they probly could of just be slightly generous with loot at the start to keep ppl happy. i get they need to make money and some ppl say dont give free stuff so they have stuff to do but well everyone quit before even getting half the loot in game anyway so why not just let them be happy with having extra loot at the start to maybe let them feel abit more invested.

then there was pvp in short it was awful and even though it gave a few laughs or a round of entertaining lunaro but no one can really see playing it again. some of them got curious about the pvp system, i told them to be ready for one of the worst pvp experience they ever had. ppl can say its not a pvp focused game but really i think thats what alot of ppl wanted, seeing destiny pvp alone does better than warframe overall kinda shows even if u dont wanna hear it. itll give ppl something to do, it can work as endgame, and even feel invested in if it had felt any good at all and all these years a chunk of the community tried so hard to be against it not even alot of ppl but just a small portion screaming no as hard as they can and my thoughts then why not just dont play it at all then. currently the game takes zero skill to play where there are no hard raids for ppl to show they did something like in wow or pvp to show ranking has left some ppl who just think hours and mr makes u the better player wen there are funny times high mr players with alot more hours have less skill and knowledge than someone with lower mr and hours so ive seen a unfair system of high mr players saying low mr shouldnt even talk.

even if no one likes or agree with these, they atleast shown a good amount of times. what makes it worse is that each one on its own has a big list to be worked out till they are really fixed/completed and it also leaves me wondering if warframe will ever get itself together cuz in these 6 years it felt like many stuff i was just learning to deal with rather than really putting my time and effort into something.

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I sit a lot in warframe discord. I have had more than 50+ new players come ask for help for differing reasons. But the underlying "fault" seems to be that they are soloing. Not because they want to, because they are unable to find players to play with.

And in discord recruit chat I often see players wanting company to unlock star chart because it is boring and/or lonesome doing it alone.

When I started playing I did not have this problem. It was more common to find players on any given node than not finding other players.

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Out of the few friends I have gotten into this game, no one lasted over 2 weeks. Biggest issue they had was how repetitive the star chart was, and how they felt they weren't really making any progress. 

Edited by redindy

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Fun Fact: If a new players enters Cetus during Ghul invasion, they may notice that yellow guy screaming at them. At that point Vay Hek isn't even introduced, because the boss node is on the side route, he can't even access yet. Most of the bosses have been moved to side routes, so if a new player just advances from planet to planet along the main route and unless being forced by a bridge to do so, they never get introduced to certain characters. So, when the Lotus is talking about a character, they may even wonder who that is.

Back in Warframe 7: There is a boss on the path to the next planet,so I better use everything I find on THIS planet to kill him.

Now: There is this bridge I need to clear, let's see... did the boring stuff and lets go. gets insta-killed by the Phantom, only to ask in Regionchat, how to defeat it. (True Story)

Here is a(nother) change, I'd propose:

1. Replace Bridges with Bossnodes, have the rewards on boss clear ONCE, no stupid restrictions of "build a weapon" or "collect 10 Grineer thumbs". 

2. As soon a boss node with a quest reward is cleared, that particular quest is instantly activated. Vor's prize, Archwing, the Dreams - those are mandatory and should launch as part of an overall game progression. This also feels more like "Story Mode", Natah should work the way around. Instead of scanning 5 drones to unlock Natah, Natah should unlock and be active, so the drones are forced to appear as part of that now active quest. Bascially, the requirements are shifted. You need to play Natah to get to Neptune? Here, have it active when Saturn is done - you will have to play Uranus anyway.

3. Naturally, Phantoms are gone, Solar Rails as well - because since Dark Sector was removed, there is no need for rails in the first place. They are metaphorical things used to connect planets, but a player doesn't want to learn philosophics - he wants to shoot sh*t. On second thought, the bossfight itself could take place on the Rail-Tileset. Players play the misson as usual and extract, but the extract will move them to the Rail-Tileset with a cutscene, kill the boss there (get or do some X) and done with the real extract.

We just need to establish, why the some bosses are now there. Maybe have them yell "I WONT ALLOW YOU FOOLS TO GET ANY FURTHER", "I FORBID YOU TO USE THIS RAIL", stuff like that. Maybe can even hide planets until the rail is activated. Might as well tell the player some made-up stuff about the planets are hidden from navigation until the according Solarrail has connected, blabla. Would also foreshadow Lua, as "hidden planets" may stick to the back of the head. Also, the planets shouldn't completely vanish from the starchart. Otherwise we would have 200 Threads about "This game has only 2 Planets?". If a Thread is "how do I unlock planets?" he obviously didn't listen to Lotus. Instead have the misisng planets as a faint outline (just crank down the Alpha), clicking on them makes Ordis say "Here is where I estimate <x Planet name>, if I only had the proper solar data, I can mark the actual location on the Starchart. I am sorry, Operator". This also should lessen the overwhelming feeling and have a player concentrate on the available things

TL;DR: We should constantly give the player a reason to progress, not drop them in the Orbiter like "figure it out yourself. use google." 

Edited by NoSpax
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If I had to guess it would be either when they finish Mercury and have no idea where to go next; get to what ever relay makes you use the codex scanner but tells you nothing about what they are, how to equip them, where to get them, or why you should care; or when they farm all the parts for their 3rd Warframe, build it, then realize they need to either trash their starter or Rhino or they need to buy plat and they assume it's pay to win and that is assuming they didn't just go to the market and see all the warframes for sell for a premium currency and assume that is the only way to get them. 

To fix it:

Better story telling they need to revap the main questline with cenimatics that actually explain what is going on and give some structure and direction to the early game and properly introduce characters, mechanics, and factions.

Second they should double the number of starting slots to really allow players to explore and experience different options before asking them to buy Warframe or weapon slots almost immediately. 

Also an honorable mention is that build times for Warframes and weapons should be scaled based on your occupied inventory slots of that kind to a point where when a new player is building their second or third frame it takes a few hours not a few days then scales up so that by the time you're getting to your 12-15th frame it's back to the standard 3 day build time.

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On 2019-09-11 at 3:44 PM, --Brandt-- said:

Judging by Reddit and being in Twitch streams, a ton of new players complain about the crafting times and waiting 3 days for a frame. So they stop playing.

Between this and a cash shop that still has "Wreck-it Rhino" pack for over 500p that only offers low level basic gear... I imagine no amount of forum white knights screeching "but it's not p2w!" will keep these folks from bailing immediately.

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I cant remember when or why I stopped playing for a while. But I find Game variety and moderation are critical for my enjoyment of warframe and all the games I play. I would suspect that the larger issue is with the way people consume games now. 

 

Lately when I log on I tend to do the trydolon bounty, and the first two or three profit taker missions. the swazan is fun, but i mostly just do the two things I just described.

 

 

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Since we don't have any actual data on this, I think I would assume a Pareto distribution here--there are probably a huge majority of low MR accounts (players who quit early) compared to deep MR accounts (20+) and it skews something like this:

(Ignore the text. The visualization is the important bit here.)


325px-Probability_density_function_of_Pa

If this is true, the "why" of it actually doesn't matter too much. This type of distribution would indicate a level of success on DE's part. What they can do to increase new player retention is widely well known, but all it would accomplish is slightly offsetting this graph a few MR to the right.

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I'd wager that over half of all players who quit Warframe quit within the first fifteen minutes of the game. The tutorial overloads players with information and choices they have no chance of understanding, while giving poor information on how to actually make use of the game's combat and parkour systems. I remember being overwhelmed by the tutorial, and only discovering dozens of hours later what modding and the bullet jump were. I suspect DE's also detected a lot of early leavers, which is why they're planning on overhauling the new player experience.

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In my experience introducing multiple players to the game, there are two major break points. One is either during or immediately after Vor's Prize. That was me about four years ago. The other is around Jupiter/Europa/Saturn where difficulty spikes significantly with the game offering no obvious way to deal with it.

 

1. The Vor's Prize breakpoint is a direct result of Warframe's utterly dreadful new player experience. A major complaint of a friend of mine was having no idea what's going on, who anyone is, what the story of the game is or why he should care about any of it. Warframe is a "#*!%ing weird" game, to put it mildly, yet it makes absolutely no effort to give new players any sort of grounding within the fictional universe and only a token effort in familiarising players with core mechanics. I didn't know I could Bullet Jump straight up until a Mastery Rank test required me to do it, and even then I had to look up the solution on YouTube. It wasn't until A******s on these very forums insulted my intelligence that I even found the expertly hidden "Advanced Movement Tutorial." Warframe's new player experience offers only confusion and frustration, and then it ends on an anti-climax with no further guidance about where to go, what to do or why I should care about any of it.

When I was still a new player, I played through a couple of confusing, frustrating missions being talked by characters who were never introduced about topics I didn't understand, navigating terrain I had difficulty finding my way across. So I quit and didn't touch Warframe for a good two years until friends of mine insisted I play it. One of the people I introduced to the game had the same experience, having played through Vor's Prize years before and quit out of confusion and frustration.

 

2. The Jupier breakpoint is a direct result of Warframe's back-loaded progression system and frankly P2W nature. I'm a whale, so I was lucky enough to have decent Warframe with a Reactor installed in it, as well as a few weapons with Catalysts. Most players, however, will follow the game's apparently intended progression path of clearing nodes and going from planet to planet... Up until they start facing off against high-level, high-damage Corpus units and Grineer heavies that they can't scratch, using the same crappy MK1 weapons which are the only ones they could easily get, still using the same Reactor-less under-levelled Exaclibur that they don't know how to play, dying repeatedly and becoming frustrated. That, in fact, is where a friend of mine eventually gave up. He felt entirely unable to complete his own missions unless one of us was carrying him, couldn't play on his own and ended up quitting out of frustration. He hasn't been back since.

He isn't the only one, either. Another friend of mine struggled HARD trying to push past Saturn. What saved him eventually was helping him unlock Valkyr, which he really rather enjoyed and which is - in all fairness - a fairly solid Warframe. But even then, he had issues with difficulty, and to an extent still does. For all the whinging about how Warframe is "too easy" that you see on these forums, the massive spike in difficulty around Jupiter is what turns a lot of people off. Simply put, it feels like the game just got a LOT harder and yet isn't giving you any tools to match it.

 

3. There are also a few secondary break points which might just have been an issue for me personally. MR 3 and Tenno Relays throw a LOT of complexity at the player very quickly. All of a sudden, new players have to learn about Syndicates and Standing, PvP, Simaris and a whole other way to do scans and a whole bunch more things. From the perspective of already knowing all of these things - yeah, none of it is terribly complicated. None of it is tutorialised in any way, either. Then there are Kubrows. The first time a player realises that their favourite pet is dying and the only way they can keep it alive is feeding it 65K Credits on a semi-daily basis, those players might reasonably infer that Warframe is an endless upkeep treadmill ala World of Tanks. At around MR 6 or so is another point where players might leave, because about there is when you realise what Mastery Rank actually means. It means you're going to have to play a crapton of weapons and Warframes you absolutely hate, and not everyone is interested in that. And then there's the grind of Cetus and Fortuna.

Warframe has a lot of quirks of its own. No amount of development can solve all of them, but a better new player experience which engages said new players right from the start might help. Maybe if people are genuinely excited about seeing where the story might lead and what new loot they might boost, then the difficulty wall of Jupiter may feel more like a challenge and less like a chore. Instead, you have a plurality of players joining Warframe either for the Zeitgeist or because they're being bardgered by friends, disinterestedly grind through content and give up when it starts to feel like the game is being unfair.

Establish your damn setting! That might be a good start!

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35 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

The Jupier breakpoint is a direct result of Warframe's back-loaded progression system and frankly P2W nature.

You don't have to engage anything "p2w" that early in the game, honestly. However, I will agree with the larger point that there is a lot of p2w hidden in the game at crucial points, despite all the "it's completely f2p" bs that people spew constantly. Even if you can trade for plat, someone still has to purchase it. Even then, new players can't expect to figure out the trade system quickly or easily enough to use it in any meaningful way... yet another reason we need an AH market instead of this $#!7-show of a trade system.

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47 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

You don't have to engage anything "p2w" that early in the game, honestly. However, I will agree with the larger point that there is a lot of p2w hidden in the game at crucial points, despite all the "it's completely f2p" bs that people spew constantly. Even if you can trade for plat, someone still has to purchase it. Even then, new players can't expect to figure out the trade system quickly or easily enough to use it in any meaningful way... yet another reason we need an AH market instead of this $#!7-show of a trade system.

Oh, I'm aware and I've been told as much in the past. The problem is that around Jupiter is where the game starts requiring a Veteran's level of knowledge of the game and - crucially - inventory. A new player could realistically stop progressing, grind nodes they already have access to, build up their resources and mods, then go back to Jupiter and Saturn with substantially better gear. It's what I've advised people to do in the past. The problem is that for a new player playing the game as they foresee it as "intended," they hit a wall. When they look around for solutions - maybe ask around or check the store - the only solutions available seem to be just using items they plain don't have. Right there is where the game starts feeling P2W and overly difficult, alienating players before they're reasonably able to handle the difficulty.

Warframe has no overriding "goal," no bridging narrative to guide players through content. Once a new player is done with Vor's Prize, literally their only guide is the Solar Rails and may be the Quest Log. The "point" of the game appears to be doing what's necessary to unlock a Solar Rail, beating the Spectre of the Rail, proceeding to the next planet and doing it all again. When that stops working, players find themselves out of options. If they're like me, they might be inclined to go to the Forums (probably the Steam Forums), where they'll be told to use Prime this or Vandal That or <insert item you don't have>. I have such fond memories of asking how I could earn a Gorgon and being told to not bother and use the vaulted Soma Prime instead. As a MR3 player...

And yes, I do agree - a non-terrible trading system would help. Realistically speaking, as little as 1000 Platinum ($10 on 75% discount) can set you up for the majority of your career. However, Warframe's trading system is so Byzantine and archaic as to be utterly incomprehensible to a new player. To the uninitiated, it feels like a village flea market. Warframe.market is literally the only reason I've been able to trade, and having that system in-game someplace obvious, rather than having to hear about it in hushed tones behind the forums would certainly help.

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You could go in to Jupiter with a basic Hek, maxed out Point Blank, and some mish-mash of elemental mods at various ranks and destroy it with ease. It's just a matter of knowing what you're doing. That isn't the content that pushes players. Again, though, I do agree with your larger points. It's just the details you seem to be overstating a bit.

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I am probably one of the more unusual players. I play solo 99% of my time. I research before I play. I google stuff like "things I wish I knew when I started" for any online game, because you'll get tons of really good tips that way. For Warframe, I found a series of youtube videos explaining the basics of the game, and a walkthrough of the early star chart. The whole "learn to bullet jump" in the first few videos I saw really opened up the game to me. Learning that you could bullet jump straight up from a standstill was eye opening.

Seeing the importance of mods and how find and build them up, was learned slowly, even with guides, because of drop rates. At the time I reached Tyl Regor, I didn't have a Serration or Hornet Strike... just Pressure Point. I was 99% melee anyway, so I didn't care about gun mods. I don't think I used a reactor on a frame until I got Inaros. They were just too rare. I didn't use a catalyst on a weapon until I got Orthos Prime, because I didn't want to waste one on a fodder weapon I'd be deleting to make room in my extremely limited inventory for new stuff to rank up.

As I mentioned in my first post, I'd have likely quit if I didn't get an infusion of plat from a friendly forum-goer, because for a few months there, I couldn't even pull any new frames out of the foundry, without slots. I used Excalibur until Saturn/Europa, Rhino until Uranus, and then I farmed Frost to try to solo Tyl Regor as guides said to slow him down with his globe... which actually worked, but my weapons were too weak to kill him, and he couldn't kill me, so it was a stalemate. Getting slots, reactor'd Inaros, and a catalyst'd orthos, I could start to make progress.

If I were less stubborn, I'd have quit much earlier.

 

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3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

I'd wager that over half of all players who quit Warframe quit within the first fifteen minutes of the game. The tutorial overloads players with information and choices they have no chance of understanding, while giving poor information on how to actually make use of the game's combat and parkour systems. I remember being overwhelmed by the tutorial, and only discovering dozens of hours later what modding and the bullet jump were. I suspect DE's also detected a lot of early leavers, which is why they're planning on overhauling the new player experience.

When I first started playing I was pressing every button till I new what each did and since I was trying to slide for speed and jump, I discovered bullet jumping. But I didn’t know what modding was other than hacking/cheating a game. So I ended up fighting Kela Da Thayme with a naked frame and weapons. Still manage to survive longer than MR 15+ while I was just reaching MR 8. 

Then I learned where the other frames drop so I started farming for them. Nyx Prime was my first Prime. I had to delete my rhino just to make room for ember. Till I learned about the start booster pack which gave me 100 platinum and used 140 total to buy 7 slots for warframes. Most people blow their platinum, including money, to buy a frame that they could’ve easily farmed for.

I told one dude to “NEVER spend your platinum on a warframe”, cause warframe slots are way more important and it takes the fun of actually farming for the frames away which makes the game more boring when there is nothing to gain. But the dude still bought his regular rhino and felt stupid when I told him that the easiest boss drops rhino. And he quit the game after that.

Only reason I’m still playing even though there is currently nothing left for me to do, cause I’m somebody that likes to see things through to the end. Right now I’m just patiently waiting in suspense for Gauss and Atlas Prime to finally come out to consoles. Some people just quit right off the bat. 

DE does need to create a tutorial that actually teaches players how to play. They have MR tests that somewhat helps but they don’t explain much at all. I had to teach multiple players how to play and I still have players flooding my chat with requests for my builds. 

Some people quit cause they are either impatient or confused. I simply liked being able to move around and not be grounded like most other games so I gave this game multiple chances to keep me playing. Others are just impatient and refuse to learn about the game. They expect to just jump right on in with the entire frame collection in their arsenal. And when they see that they can’t just grab any frame they want right off the bat, they quit. 

Does not mean everybody is like that. But the few people I’ve encountered were exactly like that. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Edited by (PS4)chris1pat8twins

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Its harder to get into this game now because there are so many people who are much further ahead than you. When this game was first coming out, back when you had to do T4 voids to get prime parts, everyone was having fun being new and progressing forward. I know when I first started playing it was fun because it was a game no one else was playing, there was never a sense of feeling like I was behind or that I had to catch up. I could pursue what I wanted without feeling bad about pursing it. I remember the grind to get new weapons was #*!%ing awful, because I never knew you could buy blueprints from the market. So i used the braton and lato forever, and I was a low MR which made things difficult. I think if low MR players never figure out how to buy blueprints with credits from the market, they'll always give up. I think where most people give up, is they see a really cool weapon, that is mastery locked at mr 10-14 while they sit at MR 1-3. They say, "f that grind" and go play something else.

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2 of my friends and my girlfriend (and her brother) quit warframe after they beat Second Dream (some went a bit deeper). All of them say that this game is obviously a GRINDAN with no purpose and no real co-op play. They all loved the fast movement, design, art, bows (all of them including me like bows in Warframe) and mod system more or less. But they all say "nothing else to do here" and moved to another games. They don't buy GRIND or fashion as endgame and see no point to continue. 
As for me - I just like to collect things and keep an eye on Warframe's progress but the main feature of the game "Horde shooting" is what I actually don't like, I'd prefer some daily bow missions like Spy or some kind of daily assassinations with well designed maps instead of randomly generated. Some challenge and nice co-op play.

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I don't know if the xbox numbers have been put up for the achievements, but here they are from the xbox phone app.

No Longer a Rookie - Get a Warframe to rank 2. - 57.95%

Saviour of Venus - Kill Jackal on his node on Venus. - 16.36%

Saviour of Mercury - Kill Vor on his node on Mercury. I remember it unlocking during the quest when I started the game close to xbox launch. - 12.50%

It Keeps Getting Better - Play for 10 hours. - 14.65%

Looks like player retention is the worst here, at least on xbox.

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Disclaimer: opinions ahead!

Many years ago, my time quitting was with vir. Couldn't beat him. Ran out of ammo. He hit hard when I got close. Tried with a squad. We died. Tried alone again, no good. Friends dragged me back a couple of years later and I'm still here.

So, first station for quitting: when you have to deal with game systems that you have no knowledge about. When does that happen? When you actually need to mod your weapon and frames. Very. Early.

Since I'm on the subject - there is nothing in the game that explain what's going on in the plains, stuff like what's the quills and where to find them. The map doesn't show us all the npcs and it's impossible to guess something like the quills even exist. Warframe does that with a lot of things. Kuva, focus, mods... Crafting weapons is mid way because by talking to the vendors we can guess what we're suppose to do. I remember that when I started I had no idea that the mods station is a thing I can interact with. This is the reason for why I'm investing time in explaining things to newcomers. I had 30-45 minutes of going back and forth with q&a just because new people can't guess all of this stuff. More than once. Now gladly there's a lot of content explained on youtube and info is easier to find, but still.

To summarize - the start of the game right when you finish earth and ask yourself if you even do something with the things you collected, and then there's nothing in the game itself to give you that answer.

 

Second point of quitting - when the game focus shifts from exploration to grinding. 

After doing all the quests, fighting all the bosses and completing all the missions. When someone realize they have the game in their pocket the sensation of repetition becomes stale. The gameplay is awesome and fun but for some people loosing the experience of finding out more about warframe is too much. They want something that will keep exciting them. Doing the same mission with different weapon or warframe is good and fun for the first few minutes, after we've done just that for many many times. I love testing out new warframes and this bothers me less, but that's just me. I think people quit at some point here. 

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in my experience there are 4 points where people tend to leave

1 - End of Vor's Prize - without direction or quest to guide them what to do next, new players get lost and quit playing. Potential fiscal loss for DE, because they genuinely may have liked the game but can't figure out what to do now.

2 - Saturn/Uranus - these are the levels where you REALLY start to need a Catalyst or Reactor on your frame to start keeping up, and I don't think many people make it past here (At least, in Pre-Nightwave days). The only ones who DO seem to overcome this hurdle are the ones who hear about how amazing Second Dream is and who know how to do so. (Now that Nightwave is here this is less of a problem. Relatively acceptable fiscal loss). This is also when most of the PvP'ers and Conclave players realise that "warframe PvP is trash and the community seems to hate the idea of fixing it", and may seek out other games to scratch that PvP itch. Pre Saturn, Conclave is more tolerable, due to normal gameplay having limited mod access to new players; post-Saturn, they truly start to feel the difference and realize that "no, the PvP WON'T get better". Moderate fiscal loss, because PvP players would likely kill to have good, Warframe-style balanced pvp. However this will not be fixed likely.

3 - Once they realize it takes 3 days to build that one Frame they wanted. These are people who probably wouldn't want the game anyway, hate grinding, and will not spend any money on it, so they are not a fiscal loss.

4 - Once they finish the Starchart and associated quests, there is precious little else to do. Many people (Even Vets) have no interest in collecting every single weapon, some people who enjoy "maining" a frame have a favorite couple weapons and warframes and choose intentionally to not grow their collection because they do not have any desire for the other frames, be it because they don't find them interesting or just because they've hit the MR where nothing is locked anymore. This last one is a slow, lingering state where they will log in sporadically once every couple days to check for new content and get daily rewards, but not do anything else. This is where MANY leave the game, and composes the largest fiscal loss, because veterans are more likely to buy cosmetics, boosters for levelling, and prime access for frames they like.

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13 hours ago, (XB1)dude1286 said:

I don't know if the xbox numbers have been put up for the achievements, but here they are from the xbox phone app.

No Longer a Rookie - Get a Warframe to rank 2. - 57.95%

Saviour of Venus - Kill Jackal on his node on Venus. - 16.36%

Saviour of Mercury - Kill Vor on his node on Mercury. I remember it unlocking during the quest when I started the game close to xbox launch. - 12.50%

It Keeps Getting Better - Play for 10 hours. - 14.65%

Looks like player retention is the worst here, at least on xbox.

No, this is perfectly within expectation along the Pareto distribution I was talking about earlier in this thread: 20% of players will make up 80% of the total play time in the community (with some variance). What you should take away from that is that if the game regularly has 20,000 players, that means about 80,000 tried it and didn't continue. That's the reason so many games focus on trying to attract new players. A small portion of them will stick with it and make up your player base.

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