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At What Part of The Game Do You Think The Majority of NEW Players Quit The Game?

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On 2019-09-17 at 4:07 PM, FrostDragoon said:

You could go in to Jupiter with a basic Hek, maxed out Point Blank, and some mish-mash of elemental mods at various ranks and destroy it with ease. It's just a matter of knowing what you're doing. That isn't the content that pushes players. Again, though, I do agree with your larger points. It's just the details you seem to be overstating a bit.

I'm not overstating. I'm giving you a literal retelling of what happened with two of my friends whom I introduced to the game. Both of them hit a wall around Jupiter, neither was experienced to "know what they were doing" at that point in time. That's the problem. There's nothing specifically difficult about Jupiter, or even Saturn. Figure out what the enemy is weak against, figure out what damage types they do, pick gear accordingly. The problem is that new players aren't flexible. They have neither the inventory to flex with, nor knowledge of what that means, nor in a lot of cases the desire to experiment. I myself hit a wall fairly early on when I couldn't so much as scratch Grineer Elite Lancers... Because the only damage mods I had gave me Magnetic damage. Yeah, my fault absolutely, but that's the problem - the difficulty around Jupiter and Saturn spikes far too abruptly as compared to what it was in Mars/Ceres, and leaves players feeling like they've capped out with no real idea of what to do.

And honestly, people keep talking about the Hek like it's some kind of panacea. Oh, just get a Hek and that solves all the issues. It doesn't. For one thing, not everyone likes shotguns. For another thing, the Hek isn't a very easy shotgun to use, having only four shots and a long reload. And for another thing still, I recommended the Hek to one of the friends I'm referring to here... And it didn't help. Sure, he could kill things with it for a few days, but it wasn't his favourite weapon. One of the complaints he gave me was that while it worked, he wanted to use other weapons, but couldn't because that was the only weapon he had which could do anything. Ultimately, the Hek is workaround to a more fundamental issue of the game simply not preparing players for its actual core gameplay, but instead just arbitrarily starting to spawn high-level dudes and leaving new players to scramble to figure it out.

I didn't have issues with Jupiter and Saturn, myself, for I had Reactors, Catalysts and Rhino. I knew enough about damage types by the point of Uranus where the particularly tanky Draga Grineer start spawning, plus I already had Inaros by that point. However, every single new player I've introduced to the game has stubled in the Jupiter/Europa/Saturn range and required major convincing, some amount of twinking and a lot of help to get them through - and even that wasn't always successful.

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I have to say, it sounds more like players just being lazy. When I encounter something I don't understand in a game, I look for solutions on the wiki, youtube, Discord communities, etc. The Hek was just one example of an easy solution, but I was roughly equally effective in my early days with the basic Braton, which is super easy to get. If people don't understand they need to mod their weapons (somehow?), they need to pay more attention, because the Vor's Prize quest is literally a tutorial on the basic ship functions.

I agree that there's a lot the game could be doing to make it more accessible to newer players, but it already does a lot that it never used to back in Star Chart 1.0. Junctions are a tutorial too, whether people realize it or not. The pathing through each planet is an imperfect one with a few exceptions here and there (Earth Assassinate, lol), but the reason you don't just start on Jupiter is that you're expected to earn/farm your way there, building up your mod collection and upgrading said mods. It's really not that hard, but people act like the game should completely hold their hand every step of the way. It's insane.

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5 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

I have to say, it sounds more like players just being lazy. When I encounter something I don't understand in a game, I look for solutions on the wiki, youtube, Discord communities, etc. The Hek was just one example of an easy solution, but I was roughly equally effective in my early days with the basic Braton, which is super easy to get. If people don't understand they need to mod their weapons (somehow?), they need to pay more attention, because the Vor's Prize quest is literally a tutorial on the basic ship functions.

I agree that there's a lot the game could be doing to make it more accessible to newer players, but it already does a lot that it never used to back in Star Chart 1.0. Junctions are a tutorial too, whether people realize it or not. The pathing through each planet is an imperfect one with a few exceptions here and there (Earth Assassinate, lol), but the reason you don't just start on Jupiter is that you're expected to earn/farm your way there, building up your mod collection and upgrading said mods. It's really not that hard, but people act like the game should completely hold their hand every step of the way. It's insane.

Most people are actually lazy that's why this game is still considered a niche one. And why mobile games that are played by themselves are quite popular. Being a "gamer" is a trend now days everyone wants to say look at me being so nerdy with my games but most really dont like videogames juts want be stay in the trend.

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First I played WF was either end of 2017 beginning in 2018. After 2-3 missions, I said this is a cool game, but I dunno what the hell is going on.

End of 2018, I gave it another shot. I reached Venus boss, and could not progress. I was like.. screw it.

Then I started again in spring of 2019, and this is when I stayed with the game. 

IMO, the lack of direction and understanding the progression system was an issue early on. Then I hit a couple of walls along the way. I was considering not playing the game anymore at the acquiring arching/Cetus road block. Also, while the story early on is meh, it surprisingly gets so much better later on. If I was DE, I would consider improving the story early on and provide better instructions (fed through missions) to progress.

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Probably when they don't figure out how to get blueprints/how the whole crafting system works, and then end up thinking you can only get new weapons and frames with $$$

Edited by (PS4)Quantaminum

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I started a fresh account today to re-experience the new player experience. This was for two reasons. First, I want to see how realistic some of the claims being made actually are. Second, I want to use the information I know and the experience I have with it to begin work on a "complete guide to Warframe" for newer players to reference. While a lot of information like that already exists, I want to make it in such a way that new players especially will understand what is going on and how to progress--preferably as spoiler-free as I can manage.

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Quests that cannot be cancelled, cannot abort mission.

The war within is one of them that cannot be cancelled, worst when void dash or something is broken during the quest.

What can those poor players do with a broken quest? Restart game will only go back into the same mission that cannot abort, cannot cancel quest. They can only quit Warframe as nothing else can be done. I am not sure if daily tribute works in a middle of quest that cannot be cancelled, cannot abort.

 

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Personally I'm not sure what the issues are on the whole (though most games have a low retention rate).

A reasonable list of credit purchasable weapons (this was something I still remember being key). 
  This was a huge aspect that I cant even seem to find now (short of the starter weapons, that even required digging).  It showed that you could work at getting some weapons without having to worry about the crafting aspect (which came later once you had a bit of a pool of resources built up and felt more like an intermediate system).
As part of this, showing all the weapons in the arsenal for plat makes the game look like 'pay to win', which is a massive disservice to the game as a whole (along with how the general hiding of blueprints is now, that even a long term player can often be hard to find a desired BP, or if there is even one to buy for the current weapon).

There is a lack of explaining things unique to Warframe yet stuff common to most FPS/TPS games is explained to players (this seems backwards).

Slots:  With the sheer number of frames and weapons now available and only a handful of slots, if defiantly makes the game feel more pay is required.  This is despite the slots being the best value for platinum the game can give you. 
So while starting plat is nice (still seems to suffer the issues of players using it frivolously), the slots are by far the best thing for new players to spend it on (as in Warframe more gear is inherently tied to more play time).  This could simply be replaced with more starting slots instead of the free plat, or better still a tutorial explaining the market gets the newer players to buy slots in the process.

The need to use only maximised mods. This one is defiantly more on the players than DE directly as most people only discuss the use of a mod if it is maxamised, and rarely (if ever) with mods of lower ranks.  Even just 3-4 ranks on a mod can help a newer player leaps and bounds.

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Hey everyone just need to let you know me and my friend who was stuck on the war within quest found a way out! We had to do the quest in tandem. (my friend on the remote and me on the keyboard pressing the corresponding keybinding at the same time to void dash and it worked! Its a temp fix but you can at least finish the quest that way. Hope it helps and happy gaming. 

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8 hours ago, REAPER996633 said:

Hey everyone just need to let you know me and my friend who was stuck on the war within quest found a way out! We had to do the quest in tandem. (my friend on the remote and me on the keyboard pressing the corresponding keybinding at the same time to void dash and it worked! Its a temp fix but you can at least finish the quest that way. Hope it helps and happy gaming. 

I would submit a bug report.

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12 hours ago, sam686 said:

Quests that cannot be cancelled, cannot abort mission.

The war within is one of them that cannot be cancelled, worst when void dash or something is broken during the quest.

What can those poor players do with a broken quest? Restart game will only go back into the same mission that cannot abort, cannot cancel quest. They can only quit Warframe as nothing else can be done. I am not sure if daily tribute works in a middle of quest that cannot be cancelled, cannot abort.

 

I got a prompt warning me that the mission would do this. 

If you can comprehend a sentence it's not an issue. 

 

If this is a new feature I can understand that though.

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A warning that your game could be broken doesn't really do anyone any good, lol.

That's like your doctor telling you, "Hey, it's time for your regularly scheduled brain scan. Btw, it could give you cancer, bruh."

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb FrostDragoon:

I started a fresh account today to re-experience the new player experience. This was for two reasons. First, I want to see how realistic some of the claims being made actually are. Second, I want to use the information I know and the experience I have with it to begin work on a "complete guide to Warframe" for newer players to reference. While a lot of information like that already exists, I want to make it in such a way that new players especially will understand what is going on and how to progress--preferably as spoiler-free as I can manage.

How much of the claims turned out to be true?

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1 hour ago, NoSpax said:

How much of the claims turned out to be true?

So far I'm 10 hours in, working through Phobos, and have only hit a couple snags. One was a big glitch during The Archwing (quest) where you have to escape the Famorian, the extraction area wasn't waypointed correctly and you have to guess where it is. That's not a difficulty issue, though.

One thing I was thinking about when I started was instead of using the starting plat for extra slots, maybe using it to potato my starting frame, but it turns out that I got one of those from the first Nightwave reward, so I still haven't used that plat. I also got Steel Charge from it.

I chose to start with Volt - MK1 Braton - Lato - MK1 Bo. It honestly hasn't been too difficult, except when the Stalker or Zealots show up. I can sometimes kill the Zealots, but I think it's probably better to run since it's a high risk encounter without significant rewards. The key thing I've noticed is that a lot of the stuff people were complaining about in this thread is very much tutorialized these days. The only thing that isn't outright obvious that new players ought to know is to focus on ranking up mods asap. Endo is the main power gate so far, even beyond just credits. You get plenty of blueprints from bosses, junctions, quests, etc, so that you don't really need to go out of your way to build anything off the market right away. I did upgrade my Braton to the regular variant when the MK1 hit 30, though. It's rank 15ish now.

I think if I wanted to abuse my game knowledge a bit more, I'd probably farm Spy missions to get a bunch of hybrid dmg/status mods.

If anything, this has been really fun so far because you actually have to think and react to things, because they can legitimately kill you if you're too careless. When you're MR 20+ and have all the best stuff, there isn't too much that really challenges you anymore.

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I had heard someplace that it was right after Vor's Prize where the game opens wide and there is not really any clear direction provided.

 

I can't say how true that is however because when I first started I chose to skip Vor's prize believing it was a tutorial not knowing that I could never go back and complete it later.

 

Thus here sits a founder who has never actually seen the Vor's Prize content.

But at least I am playing.

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100% one of the biggest walls for new players is fact they can get the blueprints to make a weapon and get all the materials only to be told to wait 24 actual hours in order to use their new weapon, this is without counting being told that each Warframe piece takes a day to make and then three days to fully create the Frame.

Just look at the Steam stats. Warframe is one of the biggest F2P games on steam and LESS THAN HALF have the achievement for equipping a mod on your weapon or frame. Only 40.8% have the achievement for playing over two hours. More people have solved a Cipher than they have earned 1k credits [and this is without considering people who may be using smurfs for whatever reasons]

People love to say "this game is amazing for new players!!!" but just look at those achievements that more than half of the entire playerbase on Steam hasn't done, some of them achievements that you do within the first 3 or 4 missions you even attempt. This game does NOT retain newer players and veterans have been gotten upset at how little DE seems to care about retaining them as well.

I know people just love DE, people love Steve, people love Rebecca, people love Pablo, people love everyone there, but you CANNOT defend DE's mistakes anymore, you just can't. What needs to happen for this playerbase to wake up and realize the hole it's in? What needs to happen for people to finally open their eyes and drive DE to action again?

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb FrostDragoon:

The only thing that isn't outright obvious that new players ought to know is to focus on ranking up mods asap. Endo is the main power gate so far, even beyond just credits.

Would you describe that as a bottleneck? I made a statement about Endo earlier, what's your opinion on that?

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It's just that it's hard to get enough to accelerate your power curve early on. You get drops of 15 here, 50 on a rare basis, and whatever mods you dissolve. The real power spikes come when you find Ayatan sculptures, fill them up, and turn them in to Maroo. Turning in cyan stars isn't bad either, just holding back about 6 or so for sculptures, but the main "bottleneck" is the amber stars. They just don't drop that often at all.

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A friend of mine really liked the game, but they stopped playing when they realized how much of a time investment it would be to really play it. That's where I think most brand-new players stop, with this and many other games. I did with Guild Wars 2 -- looked really cool, knew I'd have to invest many hours if I wanted the full experience and I didn't have the time to do that.

I don't think there's a solution to that problem while keeping a game's identity. Some people will want to play your game, and some won't. That's just it.

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Well, there's "this game is too grindy," and then there's "these are problems that could be addressed which push people away."

If someone doesn't like grind, this isn't the game for them, but I do think there's plenty that could still be improved upon.

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I initially quit because the market came off as hostile. I bought a few things, pre parkour btw.

I bought, Oberon, Silva & Agus, Akfuris. and they seemed inferior to Mag, Lex, and Bo. And for the price I felt cheated.

I came back on xbox this time about a year later. I intended to give it a better chance, immediately a few friends joined, a

I didn't even get a chance to solo. We had a blast for about a year and a half. I bought Saryn PA the same week, Nikana P remains my most used weapon.

Fast forward to now. I started again on Switch, I really didn't mind grinding, got to Sacrifice fairly quickly, made a few friends. I'm not really sure why, but I think the login rewards really put me in the dumps. I don't want to wait 3+ years for all of that. I've tried to play again, with a several month break. I had to immediately uninstall because I cant play without collecting it all, I would have bought PA and had to feed my family garbage food for a few weeks, I probably wouldn't have even played after buying it because certain solo benefits are missing now, I can't get more done in specific missions, to kill two birds with one stone.

  Clem's mission stops giving life support after its complete. I believe that syndicate survival started doing this too.so now I can't solo collect rare caches, syndicate rep items, or sweep the area for ayatans without wasting an additional amount of time.

  I cannot pause in open worlds. This is huge being a parent of a youngster, I need to be able to stop, sometimes for lengthy periods on the fly.

The game used to provide nearly everyone with a huge amount of quality of life features, but were stripped for individuals who didn't get along with others? Even affecting solo players... and I'm a whale when it comes to this game, I know I shouldn't, but I feel at least a little entitled after plopping like $480 (not including plat sales) dollars a year on this game.

Warframe is simply in an impossible state right now for me. I admire the cool features you add for color blind players, but I simply can't understand why my QoL has gone down, I can't minimize my tasks for the day because of aimlessly though out updates kicking me out of "endless" missions.

Anyway i installed Kirby clash Delux or w/e its called, for free, and it looks like it offers a "insane deal" for only $40 dollars making it the only thing that I should need to ever buy, it's a weird mobile theme store, but I really appreciate the NOT $200 for the best deal, and making it  basically all a player should need.

I still stop onto the Warframe website/ forum hoping for something I guess... but seeing a few limited items I missed will detour me pretty quick, not wanting 2+ years for something again.

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This is a really weird post, tbh, and it sounds like a lot of it is more on your end than the game--not that the game is perfect or anything. Monetary self-control, for example, being a big one. There's really no *need* to ever buy PAs at the cost of your family's budget when the only thing they offer that the game doesn't is cosmetic. Hell, most of the stuff you can spend money/plat on in the game isn't necessary for anything and is wildly overpriced. Just learn to use warframe.market and you can get most of what you need pretty easily if you're patient/diligent enough.

As for the weird changes to specific endless missions and not being able to pause, I agree those changes suck, especially now that we don't have to extract as a full squad in endless missions... which has caused other issues, but that's a whole other rabbit hole, lol.

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14 minutes ago, (NSW)Evilpricetag said:

I cannot pause in open worlds. This is huge being a parent of a youngster, I need to be able to stop, sometimes for lengthy periods on the fly.

While I doubt this will ever be properly solved due to the time cycles, you can effectively pause open worlds by archwinging up to the flight ceiling. Enemies usually won't aggro when you're that high up.

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