Risk of Frame: New game mode: Roguelike

[Kingsmount]

Inspired from here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/999580-suggestion-rogue-lite-game-mode/

 

I read this suggestion and instantly fell in love with the idea of a Roguelike gamemode for Warframe.

Warframe has literally ALL the pieces you need to make a very compelling Roguelike experience.  All the pieces are sitting there at our fingertips waiting to be put together.

Tools on hand:

A) Tile Sets for infinite randomly generated levels,  in a variety of styles where each level could generate from different tile sets as you go.

B) A wide diverse pool of different items including consumables, weapons, and frames.

C) A wide diverse pool of various systems designed to scale a characters effectiveness, mods.

D) A reason for it to exist!  (See more at the end) ->

Roguelike could be an Operator gamemode unlocked after the war within.  To access it, you select it from the operator menu.  The UI where you can choose appearance and focus, at the Somatic Link.  There'd be a new option at top, call it Orokin Trials or something.   It's a form of training program for the operator, where you start the mission in operator mode.   As you progress, you can find and pick up weapons, mods, consumables, find shrines that grant buffs for that level, and of course: Find Frames.   In this game mode the operator can collect frames and toggle between them by holding transference to open a radial menu for selecting frames.  A quick tap shifts out of a frame and back into the last one used.  Frames and weapons come rank 30.

Mods in this game mode come with random ranks,  but all stack.  Alternatively if for some reason that's hard to do with coding, additional mods after the first could rank up the previous but in either case you can carry any number of mods (No mod slots), all benefits being active.  Imagine Mods working similar to the item pick ups in Risk of Rain or passives in Binding of Isaac. 

As an option the game mode could focus more on the operator and use the frames more like active abilities by giving frame transformations / suiting up as.. a duration.  So you're incentivized to make use of all the frames you collect, and operator mode.  Once the duration runs out that frame goes on cooldown before you can return to it.  The duration can be partitioned where the duration is paused while not in use.Each frame can carry one single weapon, one primary or secondary or melee, but each frame can carry its own weapon.  If it picks up another, it drops it and you can pick it up with a different frame.  Alternatively you can pick up weapons with your operator in order to automatically assign it to the next frame you activate that does not have one yet, one at a time, essentially the operator gets to hold one weapon as a free space, even if there isn't a frame yet, or you only have one so far and it already has a weapon, the next frame you find can have that weapon the operator held onto.

Every enemy kill grants an amount of Focus,  the amount of focus is influenced by stacking multipliers as you reach higher and higher levels.  Theoretically balanced around potentially maxing out your daily focus cap in roughly a 1 hour long run.  If you can't last an hour on your run, it might take 4 half hour long runs.   The currency of this game mode as well, so 

You can run into shops where you can sell pick ups or weapons, or frames, for focus.   Or, you can buy things from the shop with focus.   Alternatively the shop buying and selling could be handled with something else.  Iridium, Chromium, or even just plain credits.    Either way, the shop can sell consumables, weapons, even a frame.   This is in addition to being able to find consumables from destructibles or item rooms,  weapons from Armories (treasure rooms), and frames from Shrines.   Mods can drop from enemies and destructibles, though gold rarity mods (or greater, like prime mods) can be found in treasure rooms or shrines.

Every level could have a Floor Boss similar to planet assassinate bosses, scaling up so if you get to high levels the floor boss could become bosses like Lephantis,  or possibly even Raid Bosses (If you see my suggestion on raids seen in here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1127908-you-just-had-an-amazing-dream-involving-a-warframe-update-what-was-the-update/?tab=comments#comment-11029902 )

It would be an endless game mode, where it would be expected to take a long time to even beat all the different tile sets and each boss in the game as a floor boss, but when you do it'd cycle back around through tall the bosses again but continuing the level progression to higher and higher levels.   And unlike normal endless missions, you'd be continuing to get stronger too as your mods stack up.  Though with enemy scaling they'd still dwarf you sooner or later.   Mods would also benefit the Operator themselves.

Weapons and frames you find in this mode aren't tied to weapons or frames you mode.  It's a full unchained experience, and a way to experience weapons or frames you might never have seen yet which will encourage people to go find those weapons or frames for themselves outside of that game mode.

Throw in mechanics like locked doors with keys in the level as consumable items,  some new consumable items that have interesting effects,  ect.  

You wouldn't have revives by default, but you can find revives, alternatively frames themselves can function as your lives, losing one when it gets destroyed knocking you out of the frame.

When you eventually die (or when you choose to end the run manually at checkpoints after defeating bosses), you keep the focus you earned.  To make it more rewarding though and give people a reason to play it beyond their focus cap,  you could be rewarded with ESO-like rewards.

Each level could end in a void gate, or an ESO like portal, or that loading screen we see when the operator 'dies' in quests.  

For multiplayer, mods are instanced where everyone gets mods, and treasure rooms are instanced where every player sees a different weapon or frame for them.

For the game mode, they could go the extra mile and have a unique endboss designed around fighting them as an operator similar to the kuva queen.  Perhaps similar bosses are made for multiple boss battles instead of using existing bosses,  similar to Enter the Gungeon's boss structure,  when you beat the final boss you can choose to "Win" or cycle through again at the higher level progression.   

 

All the tools are already there.  I imagine some game developers could patch a rough draft of a game mode like this together in a week or less, I know for game jams people make whole games from scratch in a week.   Though the fancier you want to get with new custom bosses would be cool too, and depending on how much story / lore integration you want (and subsequent dialogue). 

Tenshin could be given a new use, he could help manage these Trials similar to how he helped in the questline. Now he wont just be the Conclave dude when nobody uses conclave, and "that guy from the quests".

 

Not a fan of roguelikes?   Well

A) this is an optional game mode you never have to touch of you're not into it.. 

B) It's obviously not going to be like most roguelikes where you're isometric, it'd be just like playing warframe because you are playing warframe, just with familiar-yet newly utilized systems.   

C) It's a new fun way to spend time with warframe and take a break from grinding to just have fun, which can be an alien concept to some people.  (though of course still well rewarded, as rewards are important to fun, and if something isn't rewarding it have a shadow hanging over your head that you're wasting time.  Such as when you have to play normal sanctuary onslaught instead of elite sanctuary onslaught because Khora outright refuses to drop.)

D) It's a great benefit to other people even if you personally aren't a fan. I know I would spend hours a day just on such a roguelike gamemode and it could lure many more players who are into it,

E) it would give Content Creators an interesting new outlet for creating videos (Just look at how many HUNDREDS of episodes youtubers release on roguelike games!  Youtubers who themselves would become new voices for warframe if they start playing too because of that gamemode, though mainly existing warframe content creators would have a much needed outlet with the video opportunities roguelikes have.  Warframe could instantly become one of the best roguelike games on the market.). 

F) What about monetization if you aren't being tempted to buy frames or weapons due to grind?  There's still the rest of the game obviously, but even if you play just for that game mode (which you'd have to work towards anyway, until after the quest to get operator) you'd still be encouraged to buy skins at least, as each frame might be skinned with a skin you own, if you own the frame it might even use your Appearance loadout.  So it's also still encouraging people to use platinum,  but also provides a whole new reason to bother customizing your operators and spending plat on operator skins/clothes.

G) It's relatively easy to do in comparison while being new high value content that can be added to the game without a year(s) of dev time like these open worlds, or even story quests.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Kingsmount

[youngjdef]

Anything that gives us replayable content is a plus. +1

[Uhkretor]

Although there is already a "roguelike" thing on Warframe already, its very superficial. A little more depth wouldn't hurt.

[(XBOX)B1ueKarou]

i have no real hard evidence to back this up besides a bunch of players saying this over the years, but apparently DE doesnt check these forums very often for fan ideas like this, which i s a shame because im in love with this idea. 

i recommend and am basically begging you to repost this on the warframe reddit. i know that DE staff rolls through there often, and imho, this idea is brilliant.

[Omegaboot]

How about on the Design Council subforum? Would reposting or linking it there help?

[Kingsmount]

10 hours ago, (XB1)B1ueKarou said:

i have no real hard evidence to back this up besides a bunch of players saying this over the years, but apparently DE doesnt check these forums very often for fan ideas like this, which i s a shame because im in love with this idea. 

i recommend and am basically begging you to repost this on the warframe reddit. i know that DE staff rolls through there often, and imho, this idea is brilliant.

I'm not much of a reddit user.  When I do, it's mostly stalking and the occasional comment under a post, rather than making a new post, but feel free.

 

9 hours ago, Omegaboot said:

How about on the Design Council subforum? Would reposting or linking it there help?

Same thing, feel free to repost wherever.  I don't really know the ins and outs of these things (the forums or the reddit). 

I just wanted to share a great idea I thought would be a perfect addition to the game, and made a new topic since that one was old and archived and I had my own ideas on the subject.

It makes so much sense for Warframe that it feels like it's within arms reach if someone with the authority can grab it.   Depending on how much work they want to put into it,  it could be around the same effort as implementing ESO.

 

Edit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/d38ltq/risk_of_frame_suggestion_replayability_new_game/

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Kingsmount

[TheKazz91]

Over all like the idea I'd tweak a few things I do like the idea that the mods in that game mode would level up as you got more copies of that mod kinda like arcanes do. Personally I wouldn't make it totally detached from your overall progression out side of this mode. I'd actually start each weapon or frame at rank 0 mod capacity would be effected by MR OR they would start at rank 30 if you had mastered that item in your overall progression they will not have forma or potatoes in them how ever and these are rare drops from enemies in this game mode that only apply within this game mode. Though I'd make it so items rank up at about 10X the rate they would outside of this game mode.

Edited September 12, 2019 by TheKazz91

[peterc3]

So the reward is... Focus?

15 hours ago, Kingsmount said:

D) It's a great benefit to other people even if you personally aren't a fan. I know I would spend hours a day just on such a roguelike gamemode and it could lure many more players who are into it,

But the rest of the game is not this mode, which reads as entirely separate. If they don't like it now, why would they keep playing because of a game mode that is as divorced from Warframe as Conclave is now?

15 hours ago, Kingsmount said:

E) it would give Content Creators an interesting new outlet for creating videos (Just look at how many HUNDREDS of episodes youtubers release on roguelike games!  Youtubers who themselves would become new voices for warframe if they start playing too because of that gamemode, though mainly existing warframe content creators would have a much needed outlet with the video opportunities roguelikes have.  Warframe could instantly become one of the best roguelike games on the market.). 

This is fan fiction. You cannot just bolt on FotM game type onto another game and presto, instant success. Nobody cares about Content Creators. You cannot get people to play for this and have it be a success for Warframe, which would be 99% not this game mode.

15 hours ago, Kingsmount said:

G) It's relatively easy to do in comparison while being new high value content that can be added to the game without a year(s) of dev time like these open worlds, or even story quests.

I really would like you to explain why you think this, because it doesn't actually read as easy or as deserving to cut the line for actual Warframe content.

[Kingsmount]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

So the reward is... Focus?

There's no way to directly earn focus as it stands.   Every other method is indirect,  and the suggested implementation is themed as being an Operator training sequence, so yes.  Focus is the suggested core reward, and as mentioned other rewards recommended, which is not as relevant to the discussion, that's for the designers to come up with.

Quote

But the rest of the game is not this mode, which reads as entirely separate. If they don't like it now, why would they keep playing because of a game mode that is as divorced from Warframe as Conclave is now?

It is far less different than open worlds or conclave are, let alone the multitude of random gimmicks Warframe has implemented from banjos to fishing, and skateboards.  None of which would contribute as much replayability to the game overall as this would.

 

Quote

This is fan fiction. You cannot just bolt on FotM game type onto another game and presto, instant success. Nobody cares about Content Creators. You cannot get people to play for this and have it be a success for Warframe, which would be 99% not this game mode.

Quote

I really would like you to explain why you think this, because it doesn't actually read as easy or as deserving to cut the line for actual Warframe content.

 

You're coming across as very hostile and abrasive my dude, you don't seem to be coming from a place of reason.  Like it's just stemming from your opinion on roguelikes. It's not exactly an argument and not something I can really reply to since it's your feelings against mine.   I get it, you don't care about others (based on your tone and dismissal of content creators) and you aren't a fan of roguelikes so you think nobody else would touch it either.   You don't have to touch it.   It's no more a diversion from the usual content cycle than is to already be expected and far better time than making space banjos, but I'm not about to deny anyone else their banjos.    

That said I would much rather get this game mode / mission type than even two more open worlds at once.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Kingsmount

[Omegaboot]

One thing I should have mentioned earlier - you mentioned found mods slotting in in order, instead of having to put them in manually, but that begs 2 questions.

 

First, what that would do to elemental mods - would you force the combinations by the order they're found in? That sounds awkward and less than ideal for players.

Second, what happens if players find more different mods for a given equip type than would normally fit? Not to mention the mod point capacity, of course.

 

I think having a good answer to both of these would be a necessity before your idea can be more seriously considered by DE.

[TheKazz91]

7 hours ago, peterc3 said:

But the rest of the game is not this mode, which reads as entirely separate. If they don't like it now, why would they keep playing because of a game mode that is as divorced from Warframe as Conclave is now?

It would be significantly more in line with the core gameplay of Warframe than Frame Fighter or the current iteration of Archwing is now.... 

I do agree that there needs to be more than just raw focus as a reward even if it is just an item that you can convert into focus like eidolon shards which can be used for other things. 

[Kingsmount]

10 hours ago, Omegaboot said:

One thing I should have mentioned earlier - you mentioned found mods slotting in in order, instead of having to put them in manually, but that begs 2 questions.

 

First, what that would do to elemental mods - would you force the combinations by the order they're found in? That sounds awkward and less than ideal for players.

Second, what happens if players find more different mods for a given equip type than would normally fit? Not to mention the mod point capacity, of course.

 

I think having a good answer to both of these would be a necessity before your idea can be more seriously considered by DE.

 

Good question.  It could go in order and you get what you get, that's kind of how roguelikes roll. 

You could drop them to effectively reorder them.    

Or,  you could interact with a UI element to resort them.  Click and drag.

 

You could have access to the Inventory menu, but it's empty in here except for the pickups you find.   So you could see the mods you picked up,  and sort or drop them from there.   Mods of the same type stack regardless of rank,  and while separate similar to a stack of same ranked mods and showing the overall value, you could still split the stack if you wanted to for some reason (Such as stacked mods that have an undesirable effect like too much spring speed,  or corrupted mods giving you too much of a negative).

 

I mentioned there is no mod limit, including capacity.  The point of a core pillar of roguelikes are stacking up as far as you can go,  though with Warframe's exponential scaling they'll still out do you sooner or later, especially when you aren't just bringing in your usual optimized endless frames, you're taking what you can find.

A roguelike mode needs to tow a line between requiring skill, and some luck,  with power fantasy.   Runs should feel brutal initially, but some runs or any run where you last long enough and aren't unlucky, should eventually make you feel like the space demigod you are.   I believe stacking and unlimited mods is a core and important method of achieving that, and provides something unique you can't find in other game modes.   At least until exponential scaling slaps you back down to earth (If there isn't an "End goal" such as a final boss, but even then you could opt to go back to the start with the current level of scaling and all your stuff).

Edited September 13, 2019 by Kingsmount

[peterc3]

19 hours ago, TheKazz91 said:

It would be significantly more in line with the core gameplay of Warframe than Frame Fighter or the current iteration of Archwing is now.... 

Frame Fighter, a minigame, continues to not represent anything regarding Warframe or it's focus. If you want to have the roguelike idea as a minigame, nothing in the OP would be a part of it.

On 2019-09-12 at 4:13 PM, Kingsmount said:

It is far less different than open worlds or conclave are, let alone the multitude of random gimmicks Warframe has implemented from banjos to fishing, and skateboards.  None of which would contribute as much replayability to the game overall as this would.

Roguelikes are an entire genre of games. They are built from day 0 as a roguelike. All the systems are in support of a roguelike game. Shawzins have no impact on the game and no impact on the development of other features of the game.

How would this make the game replayable? This isn't Warframe. The people attracted to this new roguelike mode would not be playing Warframe content, let alone replaying it.

On 2019-09-12 at 4:13 PM, Kingsmount said:

You're coming across as very hostile and abrasive my dude, you don't seem to be coming from a place of reason.  Like it's just stemming from your opinion on roguelikes. It's not exactly an argument and not something I can really reply to since it's your feelings against mine.   I get it, you don't care about others (based on your tone and dismissal of content creators) and you aren't a fan of roguelikes so you think nobody else would touch it either.   You don't have to touch it.   It's no more a diversion from the usual content cycle than is to already be expected and far better time than making space banjos, but I'm not about to deny anyone else their banjos.    

This is, honestly, a terrible idea for a core Warframe part. Content Creators are not the be all, end all audience of the game. Players are. I regularly play roguelikes. A Warframe themed roguelike might be fun, but it does not work as a part of the actual Warframe game.

Despite proclaiming this would be easy to do and require next to no dev work, this would absolutely require diverting resources from things that are actually part of Warframe.

[Omegaboot]

I wouldn't call it a core part of the game, and I don't think OP did either. As a training method, however, which is what he suggested, I do think it could work. Remember Simaris' level training missions and ESO? This would basically be another such tool that players could use or not, as they wished. In fact, it might work as a new version of ESO, which currently has a short time limit per location and uses the equipment you bring.