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[DE]Connor

Arbitrations Revisited Part 2

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The current revival system is making people want to play Arbitrations in Solo exclusively, at least make it so that you only get one revive plus the revives from the arcane enhancements so that you can't just sit there and do nothing in public games for free rewards.

Please, listen to the feedback.

I'm sure this is great for people dying with their glass cannons, killing a couple of enemies before getting one-shot and then expecting to be revived over and over again infinitely by other players, but that's because the punishment of your death in the form of debuffs is directed at someone else.

If the goal here is just to make the game more accessible, then just remove the difficulty entirely and stop punishing players that know what they're doing for trying to play with other people online in public games. Believe it or not, some people want to play your multiplayer game without being punished for not switching to single player.

Edited by Ulseth
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1 hour ago, Drischa said:

I'm really excited for these changes. Arbitrations will feel like a worthwhile mode to play (outside of excavation).

People are freaking out a lot because of the reduced endo and extra drops, but I think that it will be okay. As the endo is only being reduced by 25% but we are getting double the rotation speed, we're actually ending up with 50% more endo than before. This is a bit powerful, so the extra mod drops will probably just balance this out. We'll have to see the percentage drop chances for all the mods and arcanes first, before  saying AA NO MORE ENDO

If those new auras and arcanes were rewarded in the store with Vitus I'd agree with you, but you now have 10 new rewards in the same drop table that you may get instead of Endo. Don't forget that.

Even if you are getting a reward at a faster rotation, Endo (And statues) is now competing against 10 new items on top of being a smaller amount. Statues are my main concern.

Edited by Jarriaga
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1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

This is a huge nerf to endo and statues if the other rewards are added to the drop tables instead of being acquired with Vitus.

They could easily keep the endo drop chances the same and reduce the other items, but I hope they don't do that, because endo is easily gathered outside of arbitrations as well. It isn't the fastest way to get it even now, so it wouldn't be a big loss anyways. (And if we don't pretend that market doesn't exists, you could trade in one of these mods for anasa sculptures worth more endo than an endo drop would have given)

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1 minute ago, IceBen said:

They could easily keep the endo drop chances the same and reduce the other items, but I hope they don't do that, because endo is easily gathered outside of arbitrations as well. It isn't the fastest way to get it even now, so it wouldn't be a big loss anyways. (And if we don't pretend that market doesn't exists, you could trade in one of these mods for anasa sculptures worth more endo than an endo drop would have given)

"Endo" is an euphemism for the statues because of their endo value once filled. Hence why I also mentioned the statues in that sentence.

Edited by Jarriaga

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Just now, Jarriaga said:

"Endo" is an euphemism for the statues.

And I used them interchangeably.

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It's not clear whether you have made the probability of a mission being defense / survival / salvage /disruption / interception etc. Equal.

Last time I checked defense came more often , I have only seen salvage arbi once in all the time I have played. 

Please confirm if this too has been changed or it will still be defense dominated? 

 

The rest of the changes seem alright, not sure the new rewards are going to replace any of my existing ones - the arcanes are definitely not something I will be looking forward to. Some of the auras are nice, but only the + charge + combo counter seems worth having. 

Everything else... Somewhere between meh to bad by the looks of it, but maybe it will change before implementation. 

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19 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

With some fine-tuning, we’re confident this will bring other game modes up to the level of reward that players might expect from their Excavation runs. Getting Essence directly from drones also gives an incentive to take them down, making gameplay itself feel more frequently rewarding. Speaking of rewards...

With more frequent reward cycles we’ve decided to include a few new goodies, adding variety to all the Endo and sculptures you’ll be earning:

  • Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
    • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
    • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
    • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
    • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
    • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
  • You can expect five new Warframe Arcanes as well!
    • On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds
    • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x
    • On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds
  • Drop tables will also include the occasional bundle of 5x Cyan Stars or 3x Vitus Essence.
  • Kuva has been added to the Arbiter Offerings, for purchase with Vitus Essence.

I appreciate all of these additions, especially the faster reward changes, but can you please give us a cyan star blueprint of some kind that we can buy from hexis with vitus? I find myself super short on these lately and I would very much appreciate having a blueprint akin to the amber one to use my vitus essence on.

Also, please let us buy these new mods and arcanes from the arbitration store, don't put them in the drop table, it'll dilute the drop table with stuff that will eventually lose value, meanwhile endo, sculptures, and kuva never lose value.

Verticality sounds nice, niche but nice

Wicked strikes sounds like it will be cool for niche builds on weapons like Sancti Magistar

Loyal Herd is... not really useful since my companions aren't good enough past a certain point anyway but hey I appreciate having more potential armor so that pack leader is more useful for a longer time before oneshots start happening

Bloodletter sounds SUPER interesting and I like the idea a lot, so will we be losing health on kills that we have to get back up through other means? That sounds like a cool endgame challenge style that I like as long as it doesn't kill the user and caps off at bringing us down to 2 health but you'll have to be really careful with it since we all know how people hate their self damage.

Nobody will use Bladed Restraint unless they use Naramon with it, which will be interesting I guess, but this sounds like a hard sell to anyone other than veterans like me looking for some spice and I hope the + combo on allies is stupid brokenly powerful to compensate.

I mostly have no complaints about the arcanes, except for the six melee kill one, like, it'd be better if it gives companions 50-90% damage resistance for a certain period of time rather than healing them, that's what pack leader is for.

Edited by WMan22
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19 minutes ago, WMan22 said:

...

I think Loyal Herd is aimed at warframes with summoned units (Titania, Atlas, maybe Nekros? etc.) if that is the case it would definitely see some use from me 😄

Wicked Strikes is a bit strange for now, what IS +Combo Counter exactly? (They mentioned melee combo below, could one of these actually affect the multiplier? Are they both referring to duration?)

And Bloodletter... +dmg for Garuda on every kill is more than enough for me, but it sounds like it has potential.

(Also, with the addition of Verticality we will have a bit much resistance mid-air, which raises some questions about it's future)

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19 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Hail Tenno!

It’s been awhile since we updated you on the state of Arbitrations back in April. Listening to feedback from those changes, one recurring theme was that the mode doesn’t feel rewarding enough (unless you’re playing a certain mission type, that is...) - so we dug into the numbers to see why that may be, and what could be done to improve the game mode overall.
 

Each of the seven available mission types in Arbitrations has its own difficulty modifier. These were meant to add extra challenge, while leveling the playing field in terms of rewards. However, statistics show that we missed the mark: one mission type, Excavation, was a clear outlier in terms of reward output for time spent. 

We wanted to make all mission types feel somewhat equal in terms of rewards - this means bringing other mission types up to the standard set by Excavation, so you can play when you want, without feeling like it’s an inefficient use of time. We also wanted to address the feedback that the current extended reward rotations dragged missions out. 

Therefore, we are currently moving ahead with the following:

  • All missions will return to regular rotation length EXCEPT for Excavation. Timers on excavators will be reduced to compensate, so all modes should be receiving rewards at a similar rate.
    • (Note: Disruption was already using single rotations because of an oversight, and will continue to do so with tweaks to reward structure as detailed below)
  • The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.
  • Endo rewards will be reduced to roughly 75% of what they once were (since you’ll be receiving rewards twice as often). Rare non-endo reward drop rates are unchanged - you’ll just get twice as many chances!
  • Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.

With some fine-tuning, we’re confident this will bring other game modes up to the level of reward that players might expect from their Excavation runs. Getting Essence directly from drones also gives an incentive to take them down, making gameplay itself feel more frequently rewarding. Speaking of rewards...

With more frequent reward cycles we’ve decided to include a few new goodies, adding variety to all the Endo and sculptures you’ll be earning:

  • Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
    • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
    • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
    • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
    • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
    • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
  • You can expect five new Warframe Arcanes as well!
    • On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds
    • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x
    • On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds
  • Drop tables will also include the occasional bundle of 5x Cyan Stars or 3x Vitus Essence.
  • Kuva has been added to the Arbiter Offerings, for purchase with Vitus Essence.


These rotation changes also mean that Vitus Essence output from Arbitrations will be more than double what it is now (twice as many wave rewards, plus Vitus from drones and other sources). The Vitus prices in our store were based on the current rate of acquisition, so I’m here to offer fair warning for our plans:

  • When these Arbitration reward changes go live, the price of goods in the Arbiters’ reward manifest will increase by about 50%
  • When the update is released, we will also run a script to increase players’ existing Vitus stockpiles by an equivalent amount. If you had 2 Vitus before the update, you’ll have 3 after! 

We’re doing this so players who miss this announcement do not have their existing collections devalued as the store prices change. Since Vitus mission output is increasing by more than Vitus prices are, rewards from the store should be 20-30% faster to earn overall.

As always, these plans are subject to change both before and after release, based on player feedback and usage statistics.

Thanks for reading!

 

EDIT: We hear you loud and clear Tenno - Cyan Star bundle has been removed.

Here's my take as a low level player hearing Arbitration sounds both good and bad, because i know these things are geared up for the high level and skillful navigators, so my idea would be to add some refinements to Cetus and the nearby relay of each planet to feature some additional NPC and trading stations or technology, I like to keep it interesting, so i think there can be some modern clothing and features added to the current NPC who are important to cetus and their story lines, a few of the forest and hangout areas are somewhat empty or lacking features, so adding a few NPC and greater rewards for bounties, additional NAVs and cephalons or syndicate sublets, and equivalent BPs, glamour would give the tiring KONZU a break, even if you just move him to higher level missions, and his friend post some additional bounties, maybe some fresh girl or teenager can take over the mic, and that the e-sports thing manages to pickup the spirits in the town, and sea life areas such as landing pads are improved and randomized locations are added to pool instead of just the same gruesome spot, the gazebo and woods area becomes another haven for embollist and enthusiastic tenno to free-roam the areas above the bazaar as soon as they are dropped off, were otherwise the higher ranking players can have access to more  military features and vehicle area expansions on the coastal side, i think its a bit cold area to work with, they are bundled but it still rains and it feels cold so cetus feels like a city of hobofishermen and guts, maybe kitwarframes could save the bounties, but arbitration rewards dont seem to have taht much exciting participation and entry ding to excite me just yet, making a coffer of detours here for the NPC or two  with additional guns, or upgrades to be found in the bounties that are far more encouraging optimizers of for each planet and the orbiter radio like it used to be to include the said rewards and new speakers, syndicates and treasure chests, maybe reactant can be found sometimes crafted and some relics have improved or additional rewards, such augments for th efuris and heatsword to belong to lith and foundry and orbiter updates that could increase gameplay and make mission loading a bit more interesting, music change and atmosphere or additional led's for the ships are in the relay, but not during the arbitrating pepsi missions, especially for uranus and pluto and mars that have repetitive enemies and bad rewards for archwing, a sharknunchaku and a coral kitgun its funny S#&$ in the treasure chest orbiting the depths and space areas, the minimum would be adding additional fish and minning points for each planet missions and jungles to feature some free-roaming, i dont like opening lockers, nothings ever really that exciting, and the tilesets sometimes seem really inorganic, the bullets are very generic and dont come up in random clusters or experimental type of alchemy, say a temporary weapon is found or discovered robot, or a shield to pickup, the elements of the dragonkeys and rivens can be added to unlock additional or special loot, some doors and tricky keycards and passcodes so we dont have to equip badmods from defeating enemies, the enemies weapons are not fearsome enough, the only thing i ever feared in this game is dying and flame granades because they cant be dodged, the dogs could feature some tackle and stun or electric pokemon features and coatings which are difficult, even with the mecha dogs that i seen on other levels are feasting good at movement but they dont block attacks or outperform the tenno, so its not really a problem to fight a squadron of them if they c an roll into defensive balls or formations or lay traps and sticky surfaces, that they appear to be cenoborgs but have no rockets or advanced weapons or lasers, which feels like they need some tether and blinding features and new attacks, the enemies with regular bodies are too vulnerable and have no plating or great reason compared to a close range attack they are left vamping in peices and their weapons or equipment explodes, theres also no real reasons to scan enemies or use cover fire or distance, so it can be added a few crouching or stationary buttons and pads which the players just steps on to trigger some actions or weapons/shields/and to keep a gate closed or open like the spiked and barred gates that you see in castles.

Last thing i wanna say is loading times for the elevator and ships loading are unpleasant for multi player lobby and the relays, so some achievements and radio feature might be okay other than just pulsating around waiting for a UI and ship changes/updates or music until then, i figured that some planet related feedback and debris meteorite or collectibles  might be good in some instances where the planets fumes and gases help the ships speed up, so collecting light and void traces might be posible to slow down or enjoy the loading at the bounty and free roam gates if there was something that made more sense other that waiting a random interval, i am already thinking the loot from redoing and completing missions for cephalon simaris and scanning features can be weaved into regular game modes, or that some enemies can drop in at random in some areas without simaris warning, the same goes for the wild life and future robotic compensation, adding more destructible or interactive stuff during missions like buttons and pushies will be okay, until then, just go crazy with floofs and optional mods, and keep the enemies interesting. maybe weaving some MP matches and missions together so the game runs smooth instead of dealing with so much D/C and flyback, then rejoining, i feel like in some maps you could just connect to another squadron or teleport really quick like a power ranger, maybe using a console or a pad, and some stations, the caverns and excavation are interesting but there should be some revalent rewards, not just relics and normal items, i think hitting some bone and oil, triggering a few explosions, and enemies and wild life, earthquakes and gases to adodge that can trigger a quick rainfall or snow in some cases, the gameplay can be based on this stuff, so much shooting around would prolong the technology to encase or shield itself with a turning plate, and electronics are far too exposed to bullets and gunfire, so its good to see taht the level design of the gates and alarms is far more than a lockdown with the weapons causing damage and wholesome effects of arcing and flames that worked out really good for the high level missions and cephalons to replace some of the grineer and scientist or ship levels, i dont really like the weaker infested army because they dont actually infest or cause DOTs so players can just run up to them and elbow them, without a worry, they have to run up to the player and basically die, without much armor its not really that fun to kill those, so if atleast you wanna keep them weak, have some items and guts pop out of them before they die, the juggeranough should have many babies and hidden locations on other maps maybe nests could be discovered and oooze, that might be frightening to just discover that a locker room has been made into a nest for zombies, or that one corner turn leads you into a bunch of reapers or stalkers like how nightwave has the specters and assasins randomly joining fights, but with nicer rewards and BPs instead of just 50 points there should have been some items and mods to decypher, oh and also the juggeranaught or some other previous mongalion mech towards extraction and masking their energy signatures occasionally by using the areas natural camuflage which drop their temparature, also the juggeranut has no armor plates or interesting features, and lotus is stuck saying the same lines, and awful loot in infested maps should at least be said that the relays and syndicate points and items be gifted a chance at being cleansed or researched withoyutt a clan or that the players have some deep cleaning to do back at home.

Edited by SnakeBadger

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14 minutes ago, IceBen said:

Wicked Strikes is a bit strange for now, what IS +Combo Counter exactly? (They mentioned melee combo below, could one of these actually affect the multiplier? Are they both referring to duration?)

And Bloodletter... +dmg for Garuda on every kill is more than enough for me, but it sounds like it has potential.

(Also, with the addition of Verticality we will have a bit much resistance mid-air, which raises some questions about it's future)

I assume + combo counter is the number that goes up every time you hit an enemy.

As for bloodletter, I just want it to cap off your self damage at non lethal levels so we don't shoot into a crowd of enemies with an AoE weapon from a safe distance and it instantly kills us anyway. I like the idea of something that makes the game harder for you but easier for allies since that leads to some fun gameplay for veterans who know this game like the back of their hand (basically like a Peculiar mod that has actual gameplay effects), but I still want them to be balanced and not annoying to use.

I've got no real complaints about Verticality. I love the weird niche builds in this game that lead to interesting stuff, like how someone made a Gauss build that was focused on wall latching using arcane arachne and proton mods. Super fun.

Edited by WMan22
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11 minutes ago, WMan22 said:

I assume + combo counter is the number that goes up every time you hit an enemy.

As for bloodletter, I just want it to cap off your self damage at non lethal levels so we don't shoot into a crowd of enemies with an AoE weapon from a safe distance and it instantly kills us anyway. I like the idea of something that makes the game harder for you but easier for allies since that leads to some fun gameplay for veterans who know this game like the back of their hand (basically like a Peculiar mod that has actual gameplay effects), but I still want them to be balanced and not annoying to use.

I've got no real complaints about Verticality. I love the weird niche builds in this game that lead to interesting stuff, like how someone made a Gauss build that was focused on wall latching using arcane arachne and proton mods. Super fun.

I honestly dont understand how combo+ or any melee counter works, its not like a fighting game where its obvious, so can we make some visual examples or at least upgrade the system with a tutorial or two in the game, there is the codex and the foundry but areas such as cetus and fortuna players have no idea how to play the game well, and without a skateboard they have to walk everywhere, so bounties rewards should be more important or at least that some teleportation and ships are overlooked with hacking and options to keep mediocre players happy, maybe expanding the caverns and boubling the bounties, and lessening the requirements for hunting for wild life and rivens additions to keep players in the game, i really did not have that much fun completing the story a second time in my new character when i got to cetus, and enrolling in single player modes also somewhat scary to go minning and getting stuck in low lighting situations, so maybe that some lightbulb or flashlights go off and a few warframe powers which amplify and could have some control over the abiliteis, augments to tools, kitparts, and temporary items found for getting around in some levels at least something unique or quick is allowing for the players to control one station or bay to fight another set of bases and enemies or gear but am old school so railjack happening its not going to be anything new until that S#&$ dies off, so a magasword or special gun cannons would be okay to control a few powerful machines to activate some machines in other areas to keep open world interesting. The rain and weather should at least make the gravity and mechanics of each area far more daunting, causing fog and revealing some new areas the flooding can cause some enemies and areas to become uncovered like in zelda, and that maybe a large ship drops a few mecha and large monsters while orb is resting there should be some other meaty monsters and big guts running around, the water looks scary, am not sure its electric water, i wanna fish up some BPs and decoratives as well as some other random junk

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20 hours ago, HyokaChan said:

The loot table is already diluted enough as it is with an ephemera that is useless after getting it the first time 

^This

Ephemera should either be available in the store for a reasonable Vitus Essence or be something you can exchange for Vitus Essence like Syndicate Medallions. Maybe both?

Alternatively make them something you can actually trade so they aren't just "LOL U GOT CREDITS" after the first time you get them. Same for literally any and every other "you only ever need one of these" drops that the game will potentially slather you with over time.

Edited by Oreades
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I think that making the other missions faster and leaving the excavation as it is will balance things a bit , but problem is that it removes all the reword that came from skill , little as it is .Excavation involved at least some level of team communication and coordination and you also needed to kill fast enough to get all the cells you needed . If now survival will be just as good , that doesn't feel right , I did an 2 hour survival with Loki and no abilities just for the hell of it and didn't even die , that mission is way to easy to be just as rewording 

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2 hours ago, Ulseth said:

I'm sure this is great for people dying with their glass cannons, killing a couple of enemies before getting one-shot and then expecting to be revived over and over again infinitely by other players, but that's because the punishment of your death in the form of debuffs is directed at someone else.

Ah, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who feels this way. Random weebframes that zip about and die repeatedly in the first rotation get right on my nerves. The revive mechanic really is an irritant for the group- so if you keep dying, you're a walking debuff. You should have the decency to just leave the game to improve your setup/approach rather than screaming at people for a rez.

I will admit that if someone keeps dying a disproportionate amount, I tend to deliberately avoid picking up the rez tokens. It can take them quite a while to get the hint but it's sometimes necessary.

Edited by Kattefjaes
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They said it would be twice as often so basically it's the same 1 round of interceptions 5 waves of defense 5 of survival 1 round of salvage and 1 minute 40 seconds per excavator and so on but you get twice as many rewards in the original times of it

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One change that can be nice to have,move all mods,arcanes and fashion frame stuff to the essence shop,and add kuva to the drop tables,but not too much of course so endo drop chances wont be hampered too much and other kuva sources wont be devalued,this will ensure arbits stay as a good way to farm endo without spending plat and you can earn some kuva off from it as well

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This seems very fair and I like the new rewards. That's what I was waiting for. Now all we need on top is more arbitration specific enemies (not just the drones) and modifiers and short events like boss spawn, credit dropping enemy (like gold goblins), heat wave, healing areas, enemy air strikes, laser plates spawn, tenno specter spawn (stuff good for enemies or tenno at random every few minutes) to make it more exciting. Fissures feel more "eventful" because of random fissure spawns and in general more enemies and enemy variety.

Appreciate the good work ❤️ :clem:

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Changes mostly look good, thanks!  However, the aura mods really should be in the shop, as you only ever need to have one of each, if any.

There are also still some issues with the revive system and not allowing a surviving player to opt out of picking up the revive tokens - increasing their chance of death potentially because somebody else made a mistake.

But yeah, some issues aside, this is on the whole a welcome improvement.

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So nothing has changed really, 2x5 still equals 10.

What i mean is you shouldnt have changed the endo amount.
 

Whats the difference if i get 500 endo two times and once a 1000? None, should have kept the amount as it is WHILE having a 5min/wave rotation.

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So it took "only" ONE YEAR for DE to realize and fix one of the biggest downsides of arbitrations? 👏 :clap::clap::clap:

The changes seems good and I'll probably go back to play it again, but.

It's just basically fixing a giant mistake and a major complaint we had ever since arbitrations were introduced. New rewards are a big plus since there were not enough and variation of rewards were lacking a lot!

One thing that would incentivize players into playing it is to try to make Arbitrations be at least somewhat different than just a normal game mode (like survival or defense) and actually make it stand out of the rest, like how Sorties are. Give it some introduction to the mission, add more twists instead of just upping the level of enemies and giving them an imortality aura. That'd be great.

 

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Citation

Arbitrations Aura Forma Schema drop chance :

Rot A - 1,5%

Rot B - 2%

Rot C - 4,5%

Mmmh, ok...

Le 10/09/2019 à 00:10, [DE]Danielle a dit :

NEW MARKET ITEM: Aura Forma !
Making its debut as a Blueprint in Arbitrations, we will be adding AURA FORMA to the Market for Platinum. You will be able to buy 1 (80 Platinum) or a bundle of 3 at a discounted Platinum Price (150 Platinum).

Mmmmmmh, ok...

Citation

With more frequent reward cycles we’ve decided to include a few new goodies, adding variety to all the Endo and sculptures you’ll be earning...

Mmmmmmmmmh,ok...

PS : if you are a WF player who understand - like me - the problem we will encounter for have this Aura Forma now, don't hesitate to says what do you think about it please, thanks.

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