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[DE]Connor

Arbitrations Revisited Part 2

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On 2019-09-12 at 12:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

With more frequent reward cycles we’ve decided to include a few new goodies, adding variety to all the Endo and sculptures you’ll be earning:

  • Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
    • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
    • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
    • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
    • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
    • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
  • You can expect five new Warframe Arcanes as well!
    • On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds
    • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x
    • On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds
  • Drop tables will also include the occasional bundle of 5x Cyan Stars or 3x Vitus Essence.
  • Kuva has been added to the Arbiter Offerings, for purchase with Vitus Essence.

Even with the addition of Kuva to the shop, we don't have much in the way of a sink for Vitus Essence. Instead of diluting the drop tables with two sets of five mods / arcanes, can we instead see one or even both of these sets put in the shop? With the greater gains of Vitus coming in overall as a round reward and an enemy drop, it'd be nice to have a Vitus sink or just more things to buy. Most of the shop is cosmetics or things we only need to buy or build once (save Rivens). We already have multiple ways to farm Kuva, to have it added to the shop feels kind of "meh" as an addition.

Extremely happy to see the reward rotations get upped to what they should have been at the start, thank you!

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The one thing that does not appeal to me as a mod reward (UNLESS you have a threshold mechanic to meet ala 99% vs 100% base status on shotguns) is flat stat rewards.

 

Warframes and weapons are full of flat stats, but mods are both flat stats and new mechanics. Like condition overload, augments etc. Not saying these wont help in specific scenarios... but they don't add too much.

 

The 2 I care about somewhat is:

"Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 

Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter "

 

Those I like as rewards. Not even saying endgame rewards or not, just rewards in general. I am almost MR 19 Btw and have played for 4 years

 

Edit: Didn't notice the "-" on blood letter, than can be a boost to things like oberon, and nezha and synergize with nekros. Thats another good one.

Edited by MokutoBunshi

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On 2019-09-12 at 11:30 AM, [DE]Connor said:
  • Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
    • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
    • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
    • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
    • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
    • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
  •  

 

With corrosive projection existing and armor scaling being one of the biggest things. Do you really think endgame players will use these?

solution is going to be nerf C Porjection aura mod. Just as it was to nerf itzal's blink before community railed to stop that. 

The proper soultion IMHO is put the aura mods elsewhere if the devs really want them in. Give more Vitus essence because kuva at some point will be the only thing players want out of arby's unless they are somehow plat farming/trading. 

Edited by Fire2box
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On 2019-09-12 at 11:42 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Nekros going Healer now? :3

one full magus repair will shred it. 

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1 hour ago, DeathGold said:

they would probably be in sale for vitus essence, hopefuly it would be a case of: don't want them ? don't buy them.

nope i guarantee you these are drops and not shop sells, refer this sentence:

Quote

With more frequent reward cycles we’ve decided to include a few new goodies, adding variety to all the Endo and sculptures you’ll be earning:

 

Edited by HyokaChan

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The changes seems so contra productive. They finally reduce the rotation time. But you earn less endo and the pool is even more dilutive with AURA mods, you only need ONE! With Adaptation you may want to have 2 o 3 at different ranks for different builds, maybe. But no with an aura. 

If only we had a store where we can buy things with this Vitus Essence you earn in Arbi, you know a store that had almost all garbage to sell and could use more items... mmhh 

Edited by rodzzila
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... Okay so they FINALLY made Arbitrations have normal rotation but then they immediately add 10 garbage Aura Mods and Arcanes to dilute the loot drops!?

This is quite literally one step forward 2 steps backwards.

 

DE, here's what you do: don't ever add any drops to the loot pool! More RNG is not going to make us play Arbitrations more, Hell do the exact opposite and remove a couple then add every item that drops from the current loot pool (plus the new ones) to the Vitus shop, people will play more Arbitrations if they can see their work building up to the rewards they want!

 

I would play Arbitrations every day if I knew for a fact that "I will eventually have enough Vitus essence to buy anything I want from the drop table, so every run I don't get it was not wasted time "

 

More RNG is not the answer, allow us to get what we want a certainty through daily farming, that would be a smarter move then whatever this is...

 

This change makes me want to play Arbitrations even less and I already only played them if I needed a statue and couldn't wait for Sunday.

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Add more items will be great, but maybe more that 1 per R, or some drops just from enemies?, or X 2 loot each X time/rounds..?

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This is a mess.

There's nothing to save about this post except drones dropping vitus essence, the mod bloodletter and being able to buy kuva from arbitration shop but knowing you guys it's gonna be like 50 vitus for 500 kuva.

I don't think i need to explain why everything else is worse because if you can't figure that out on your own game i don't know who will.

I'm not asking for everything to be better but this is not it.

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On 2019-09-12 at 11:30 AM, [DE]Connor said:

The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.

*Makes one game mode that encourages SMALL short runs (SO/ESO)......then changes another game mode that is LONG runs*....you guys need to make up your minds on how long you want us in missions for........

Im glad that we are going back to the 5 min rots, as the 10 min rots were invasion levels of boring

 

On 2019-09-12 at 11:30 AM, [DE]Connor said:

Kuva has been added to the Arbiter Offerings, for purchase with Vitus Essence.

about time this has been added elsewhere instead of boring kuva survival....and no, disruption is NOT an exciting game mode...its also boring

tbh, i just wish we could create our own missions by now with their own modifiers (a la dark sectors and nightmares)...im tired of running the same tiles over and over now......i WISH we had survivals on planet tilesets like we did BEFORE excavation came out...I miss those.

Edited by Kalvorax

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On 2019-09-12 at 9:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

EDIT: We hear you loud and clear Tenno - Cyan Star bundle has been removed.

Please consider also adding a new icon for the Vitus Essences, and a new model for the Revival Tokens and Revival markers!! They are very distracting in Survival Type Arbitration missions!

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I like the changes but rip to that ephemera in there now...

Edited by paul5473

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It's a bit meh as a whole.

  1. Items that we want (mostly) once should be in the store, such as the new auras.
  2. Arbitration is an excellent source of endo, if you diminish endo amount by 75% and only give twice as many opportunities to get some, in the end we get less endo. Unless "Rare non-endo reward" also means more Ayatans sculptures, which means it should be close to the same amount.

I would be great if the revive mechanic got some tweaks as well, such as manually picking up the Burdens for example. It may lead to players not reviving though, some testing could be appropriate.

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On 2019-09-12 at 3:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:
  • Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
    • Verticality: + Aim Glide / - Damage Taken while Airborne 
    • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter 
    • Loyal Herd: + Companion HP / + Companion Armor 
    • Bloodletter: -HP on kill for self / +HP on kill for Allies
    • Bladed Restraint: - Melee Combo on Self / + Melee Combo on allies 
  • You can expect five new Warframe Arcanes as well!
    • On Rifle Kill: Melee damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Melee Kill: Rifle damage increased by x for y seconds
    • On Pistol Headshot: x% ammo efficiency for y seconds
    • On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x
    • On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain x armor for y seconds

Who design this things? Aim glide (aviator, HELLO? or you guys plan an exilus to reduce armor?), charge attack (did you mean Wicked Redeemer?), companion HP, heavy weapon summon (is like they don't have a 5min CD and are useless damage wise outside profit where you don't need armor after the weapon summon, but all the damn time)... all this useless/redundant arcanes/auras... is like we don't have enough useless/redundant mods and arcanes already...

Like, really: "On Six Melee Kills: Heal companion by x"... we have two mods (one primed already, the other part of a set) for that very same thing. Why anyone will sacrifice an arcane slot to heal the companion LESS efficiently with the same mechanic? Who made this design think companions have two mods slots and frames eight arcane slots...? I'm confused... And you guys think that constantly switching weapons is a "fun mechanic" to make this rifle/melee thing (even after all the fail mods and sets released already?)? Most people who can use this arcanes will not, because you normally switch to the pistol first, than use the melee. Why? Rifles have more zoom or scopes, and players don't want to zoom in and out all the time when gliding... this issue is addressed like 400 times in in the melee feedback page (or you can read "On Zenistar Kill: Rubico damage increased" for stationary builds)...

 

On 2019-09-12 at 3:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

As always, these plans are subject to change both before and after release, based on player feedback and usage statistics.

Yeah... why not use the current statistics and player feedback on really similar stuff to know before release that this all sounds like a huge fail? Don't know the X's and Y's in this, but playing the game i know that basically nothing have actual uses but some niche/odd builds and only for MP that are not PuGs (i tried way to hard to fit Bloodletter in a Hildryn build, but who unequip CP this days? And probably will be vazarin because is "HP" related... so, no success in doing that)... and I know for sure that if this all is IN the rotations, Arbitrations are dead short after this changes. Bloated tables are the reason that players only pick a few nodes in the whole star chart already - and you guys are limiting the choice even more.

 

Wait... are you guys trying to resurrect Rathuum? Is this the real endgame?

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10 hours ago, vFlitz said:

Sadly, not glaives nor gunblades. If this works like Amalgam Organ Shatter, it only reduces the duration of the charge before the attack, not its animation speed. Gunblades and Glaives in normal mode don't really have a windup charge before their charge attacks, so they're mostly if not entirely only affected by normal attack speed. Glaives in dual wield mode, although they do have a charge, seem to also be exempt from AOS' effect.

That's why in my feedback post I asked for this to be changed to literally any other melee stat. Charge attacks just aren't useful.  Wukong's 4 doesn't even have charge attacks at all, and since it was supposed to be a preview of melee 3.0, chances are they'll be phased out entirely at some point.

I have no idea what that phrasing is supposed to mean, but I did my own testing and found that increased charge attack speed does exactly what it's supposed to do. It is however, less noticeable on glaives and gunblades than it is on the Zenistar or Wolf Sledge for example. You're absolutely right about it having no effect on glaives in dual wield mode though.

Regarding Melee 3.0, I have no earthly idea why they would propose an aura that increases charge attacks if they're going to be phased out. Sounds like either a miscommunication with the playerbase, or the proposed aura effect was an oversight.

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I like the changes a lot. But please, as others said, add the new mods and arcanes into the arbitration shop.

And please, remove the limitation from exalted weapons so we can kill the arbitration drones with them... i feel excessively punished for being a Titania main, and i think i dont deserve that strange limitation 😞

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On 2019-09-12 at 7:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

so we dug into the numbers to see why that may be, and what could be done to improve the game mode overall.

 

On 2019-09-12 at 7:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:
  • The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.
  •  

I thought one of the main issues was too much time invested without enough rewards. This has just been reworked into a way where you get something from the mission in a shorter space of time (hi dopamine-like effect on players), but you need more of it since the rewards have been nerfed (and appear to be being diluted further with more mods/arcanes). 
So in essence, your overall time spent in a mission is the same or longer than before. This is silly, and I imagine this will have to be looked into again when still the amount of players playing arbitration are on par with my conclave soldiers. All you have achieved with this proposed rework is try to bring game modes to the level of excavation, too focused on one feedback point but it seems the bigger picture was missed. Sad.  

New loot: lose the mods from the rotational reward pool please, add them to the special vitus store instead (heck, bar open world bounties, this could be done with all mods in the game which are 'rewards' from missions, just add them to the market for credits or something but I digress). In addition to this, move the ephemera drop into the store as well. I doubt people want more than one BP of an ephemera. 
And for the love of RNG please consider changing the rewards back to an ABCCCCCC... system OR implement a disruption type situation for other game modes where performance can push the rotation cadence into rotation C. 

Side note, 100k credits to craft an amber star still seems a bit much, can this be revised to a lower amount? That's basically a full sortie's credit reward for an amber star. Not sure why it needs to be that high. 

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Alright, so what are the Kuva rates though? 100 per 10 Vitus wouldn't surprise me at this point. Everyone is thoroughly sick of siphons, nobody likes the Kuva survival, everyone is thoroughly disappointed with the disruption's abysmal rates, and everyone is confused as to why you guys treat it like such an inconceivable notion to just make Kuva a dropped resource in all of the Fortress' missions and reward tables. It's one of the most counter-intuitive things I've ever seen in any game. 

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Instead of cycling through the same missions you should redesign arbitrations to offer some progression. Make it 3 difficulty tiers, each tier with challenges the completion of which will allow you to progress further. Each tier will have tougher enemies, additional conditions, etc. Challenges can vary from "complete X arbitration survivals over an hour long", to "find X unique items during an arbitration". You can add secondary objectives, like mini bosses. Clan challenges would be nice, too. And challenges could offer their own unique rewards. It doesn't have to be anything big, an arbiters-themed skin for a weapon, maybe unique ephemera. I know assets take time to make but for this system to act as an endgame it should grow past standard Warframe missions and offer more than mods and resources. Heck, why not add modular weapon parts with randomised stats so players could grind for optimal stat combo? That would keep people occupied for a while.

I think it would be a good idea to post polls on the forums asking players what they expect from you when it comes to late game and rewards. It would help you to test the waters instead of going in blindly with unnecessary additions. Case in point – Echoes of Umbra.

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On 2019-09-12 at 8:43 PM, diaversai said:

Positive: Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.  Negative: When these Arbitration reward changes go live, the price of goods in the Arbiters’ reward manifest will increase by about 50%.

It's double the Essence (from shorter rotations) plus drops from Drones. I don't think a small increase in store prices is too unfair. They'll become cheaper overall.

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4 hours ago, Fire2box said:

 

With corrosive projection existing and armor scaling being one of the biggest things. Do you really think endgame players will use these?

Hi, I'm an endgame player and I don't slot CP on any of my frames. Stripping armor with weapons and abilities, or just using viral/slash is effortless. There are also a half dozen weapons that give zero fuks about armor altogether, like Zaws, Redeemer, and kitguns.

Also Corpus and Infested don't seem to care much for armor. For Demolysts, you wouldn't even be stripping armor anyway.

While some of those auras look underwhelming, others could be interesting if the stats on them are decent. 

Edited by Ikyr0
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2 hours ago, Feuershark said:

It's a bit meh as a whole.

  1. Items that we want (mostly) once should be in the store, such as the new auras.
  2. Arbitration is an excellent source of endo, if you diminish endo amount by 75% and only give twice as many opportunities to get some, in the end we get less endo. Unless "Rare non-endo reward" also means more Ayatans sculptures, which means it should be close to the same amount.

I would be great if the revive mechanic got some tweaks as well, such as manually picking up the Burdens for example. It may lead to players not reviving though, some testing could be appropriate.

You should be getting slightly more Endo or about the same amount. Rewards will occur more frequently.

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If we end up getting "Twice the reward rotations" but if said rotations give us the rewards we actually want at half their current rate. (Due to all these near useless mods/arcanes.) And you're lowering the value of endo on the rotation rewards... this could actually be a net negative, the Vitus Essence rate will be doubled, but if the costs are increased at a similar rate, it ends up only being a very minor increase (drops from the drones). I'm hesitant after thinking on it more.

Increasing the reward rate while transitioning to AABBCC seems reasonable and good, but I agree with the users here, move a lot of these rewards to the vitus shop... or something, getting them as a reward for a rotation will be a real let down, as is every mod already that's not adaptation. (And that will eventually be worth next to nothing as well.)

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On 2019-09-12 at 9:30 PM, [DE]Connor said:

The rotation cadence will be changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...” So that the same level of time investment is encouraged.

As i see, you fix Stars with Peetain... So you read replies.

Please, for a glory of Lotus, do not add this extra B rotation. I know for some point it's mean same time investment, but

1. There is no reason to do it same, couse you know, we kinda talk about buffs.

2. This inconsistancy already trigger me. One way you make same rotation as all nodes, and this make it unique in some pretty weird way for some weird reasons. That's like part in code from older version nobody know why it here and how it works.

That's not even about droprates*, or extra 5 mins. That's about mentally health!

*for example Adaptation outcome for 1000 30 min runs will change from 0.015*2000+0.02*2000+0.025*2000=120 to 0.015*2000+0.02*1000+0.025*3000=125 And this will became even less noticeable for longer runs.

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Nice to see some mission type rework for time spend.

I still sad when it come to gameplay. I love using the Warframe 300% buff whatever frame come out but it sad that lots of them get counter by the drone. Best exemple is Titania who literally can't stay in her AW mode because of drone and then get easy target. 

To keep up the challenge, I believe you guy can increase the spawn rate of special unit, Juggernaut, Bursa, Nox . . .

 

Edited by Taiepii
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