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Arbitrations Revisited Part 2

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On 2019-09-19 at 12:57 PM, Sylonus said:

Yes

Edit: Using capped star values of sculptures as drops, and here's my math, feel free to double check me:

Treating statues as their endo value turned in at full stars because most people I know and myself do so, and using 5/10 minutes for reward intervals ala survival even though some game modes are slightly faster/slower.

.......

Old Rotation 😄 Every 10 Minutes
Endo: 2000 @47.5% (950)
Orta: 2700 @29% (783)
Expected Endo Per 10 Minutes: 1,733
Expected Endo Minute: 173.3

New Rotation 😄 Every 5 Minutes
Endo: 1500 @29.5% (442.5)
Orta: 2700 @20% (540)
Expected Endo Per 5 Minutes: 982.5
Expected Endo Per Minute: 196.5
C Rotation Difference: 23.2 More Endo Per Minute

There's 1 massive flaw in this calculation, and it's the fact that most people who were after endo farmed Excavation (or disruption for last few weeks), with 3-5 minute rotations. That means you can effectively multiply old rotation expected endo by about 2 and be at about 45% loss in the new rotations. 

I was getting more pure endo (without sculptures included) before the patch from excavations and disruptions than I am getting now from any mode with sculptures included.
My old average (16 rounds, give or take), which is 10-12k pure endo and ~4-5 statues.
My new average (same round count) is 6k + 3 statues. (it's actually 5k, because I had multiple games with only 1-2 Endo drops, which dropped it significantly, but I assume that's an anomaly)

 

Edited by Jitsuryoku
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Oh we are factoring in personal cherry picked choices when determining overall efficiency? 🤔 Well then it is not even a contest, I already got more endo from the new arbitrations than I got from the old one, because I didn't bother playing it past day one/that one run it took to get seeding step.

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1 hour ago, IceBen said:

Oh we are factoring in personal cherry picked choices when determining overall efficiency? 🤔 Well then it is not even a contest, I already got more endo from the new arbitrations than I got from the old one, because I didn't bother playing it past day one/that one run it took to get seeding step.

Good question. If by "Overall efficiency" you mean "average" efficiency, then - yes. It improved.
In fact I won't even argue that MOST of the changes are bad. They are good for the game mode, overall. The rewards took a terrible hit, though, but as you said yourself you didn't bother to play abritrations beyond the ephemera so, you might not won't know it. Amount of endo you get on BEST modes (now compared to before patch) is essentially halved. 

Anyways, there is a reason statistics do not rely on blind averages. It is because averages includes redundant data which does not account for various factors, such as the fact that endo farming was mostly done in Excavation. It's like saying "overall people earn 1k / month" when in reality there's 1000 people earning 1$ and 1 person earns a million. 

 

 

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looks like more of the same to me. More grind with more pointless rewards. Sorry but over the past years the grind and garbage that is being put into all these new modes and the utter lack of effort to fix the totally broken stuff previously released will not make me want to play daily like I use to.

 I'll look back again in a few more moths to see if DE actually releases new fun and exciting content. For now Warframe is collecting dust yet again.

 Nice try but not nice enough mates

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I admittedly haven't done the math on the other game modes, but I may get around to it, but at the very least for Survival, it's an increase, but that's not a "flaw in the calculation" that's just not addressing the other types.

Edited by Sylonus

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now that i did a fair playthrough  the new arbitrations, can say its more.....FUN....i am on the fens regarding the auras and arcanes but the vitus essence and kuva and rotation times are a big +

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Oof, I actually lost because of the burdens xD Picked them up, then the guy left, 3 rotas later it was too much.

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*Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.

how many are they suppose to drop and what is the drop chance? 

 

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I have 4 or 5 Aura Forma BPs. They each cost 4 Formas to build. All the Frames I'm invested enough in to use an Aura Forma on, I've already done so. I constantly need regular Formas for Frames, Weapons, Companions, Archguns etc.

Why would I ever craft any of my Aura Forma BPs? Every time they drop as a Rotation Reward, it feels like a wasted Rotation. Please either reduce the BPs' Forma Cost from 4 to 1, or move them from the Drop Tables to the Vitus Trade Shop thing.

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On 2019-09-12 at 2:55 PM, TuxedoCatfish said:

TO 75%. Not by 75%. They're already doing what you're asking for in this post.

oh, well that's a derp on my part....lol

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Just to add my salt:

My only issue with all the change is the reward :

i many many many people say before: please put the arcane/mod in the vendor: I'm tired

I played a lot arbitration since the patch the kuva in the vendor is nice.

The mode that i didn't touch before now feel rewarding: my favorite being disruption currently.

Only issue RNG to get 10 arcane + getting mod that I don't care about again and again instead of endo or aura forma is painfull.

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I am finding it inconsistent with drone drops. 
Played a couple defense missions recently. The tile for Sangeru on Sedna seems to give a good amount of vitus from drones. 
There is another tile on the other hand (looks like Xini interception) where after 25 waves I got 4 from the drones at end of run. Not sure if this is how it should be, does not make sense for such a huge different in drops between tiles. I have played both tiles twice each and had extremely varying results (very good luck/RNG on the Sedna tile and very poor drops on the Xini-looking tile). 
Not sure what or why this is happening, would be great to hear if others are noticing any patterns from their time playing Arbitrations. 
 

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Vitus essence needs the same treatment as kuva in kuva arbitrations. In missions like survival, people often seperate from one another and not everyone is aware or polite enough to mark them.

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Posted (edited)

To revive or not revive: I'm sure this has been suggested, but why not just use Instance Selection? One for revives, one for no-revives. That's already what DE uses when we go to a highly-populated relay, Cetus, Fortuna, or a node with multiple mission types occurring on one location (Fissure, Syndicate, Invasion, Nightmare, Regular, Sortie).

I do not mind revives, but that seems like a possible compromise.

As for the new drop table: The changes to arbitrations that I don't like are 5-minute extractions and endo dilution. I don't mind that the rewards are every 5 minutes, just don't like planning to go for at least 20 mins/20 waves and then having the team abandon ship. When I join a public match, I want to play with a team. When I do play solo, I stay as long as I like. Maybe I need to start doing that more often, but teams are more fun.

More importantly, and as many others have already said, I would have preferred the new items, primarily the arcanes, go in the shop for Vitus. Even if it had to be a pricey. There was nothing wrong with the Fortuna and Cetus arcane system. 

Oh, and I like the increased Vitus Essence drops. That was great. Most of the mods don't appeal to me and only 2 of the arcanes seem worth trying. 

 

 

Edited by Rhekemi
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Honestly, wasn't a fan of the old arbitrations it felt so unrewarding I couldn't even be bothered to do it after the first couple of goes....

Finally got round to trying the new one, tried a survival mission and well imo it still feels incredibly unrewarding... Spent 20 odd minutes and came out with 4 vitus essence (would have been 5 but had a random instakill from who knows where, playing solo so no revives).  In those 20 minutes I would have gained a massive 1 extra vitus essence from the drones along with 1 ayatan, 2 endo (400 and 1200 iirc) and an arcane bodyguard (which is a completely useless arcane in all honesty).  

Sure I read the drone was 1% chance somewhere, needs to be considerably higher in my experience to make it a 'beneficial' addition to the drop tables.

Throw in the increased costs of rewards and it honestly feels like more grind for the store rewards. 

I still feel that the dilution of the drop table with more rewards was wrong, it completely defeats the point in having vitus essence as a reward, it would have been better to have kept the costs of store items the same but add in the new rewards so we had to buy them with vitus essence, as a side benefit it wouldn't have diluted the drop tables for endo/ayatan which is the main reason many players had been playing arbitrations.  

Now we have the situation where the only thing 'long term' arbitration players can spend the vitus on is basically kuva and the archgun rivens, unless they intend to sell the mods.... the odds are that the 'long term' arbitration players are the same sort of player that has maxed out their riven capacity and while kuva might be useful if they're rerolling there are 'easier' ways to get kuva than doing arbitration.

Edited by LSG501
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On 2019-11-12 at 2:12 AM, (PS4)nelris95 said:

When Will this hit console? Is november already

Remember that the PC players get all the bugs so that we don't have to. These things take time. Anyway, you should look for the "dev workshop" thread to see when future updates are released. That said: update 26 for consoles is in Certification already.

 

Regarding the changes to arbitration, I look forward to the changes but understand that it is a bitter sweet change. Most importantly: Old Man Suumbat's sculpture will be available!

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some nodes that are named arbitration on lua for example dont have great loot or enemies, the music and atmosphere could be different to the equipment the operators are using or are restricted to receive some special rewards or decorations in replayable missions i think this is important to make the pvp, lunaro, and tradechat interesting perhaps u could allow some new enemies who drop from ships and turrets to appear but that wouldnt change the rewards it would just be more interesting,

also i picture various types of crystals and minning in lua and other caverns,  music changes, the gravity is already interesting but not alot going on per/planet if its not vampiremode the planets usually just have the same enemies, at least arvitration has those red-drones and decent chances at new rewards like the Blade Charger i got the otherday was really interesting, but it forces you to quit or wait for a team mate if u press the wrong buttons

 

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