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[DE]Connor

Arbitrations Revisited Part 2

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2 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

all modes should be receiving rewards at a similar rate.

No! Please don't do this!

There is a very good reason why especially survival should give rewards at a lower rate than other mission types. And that's simply because it is super easy and only based on a timer to go down. How good you play is practically irrelevant for survival! Thus survival offering same rewards as the other missions will make all other mission types kinda useless and everyone will afk camp survivals.

Also the fact that excavation is rather rare in the available arbitrations and more rewarding (for good teams) than the other modes really helps finding a team for it. Right now this is the only game mode where I can find people who actually want to stay in the mission past lvls of 500 or so. If all arbitrations give similar rewards there will be much less incentive to stay in a mission for long and what little end game we have gets reduced even more. ūüėě The C rotations alone are not much incentive to stay in the mission as they are not much better than A or B and 20 mins to unlock C rota is also pretty fast.

Thinking about the rotations please be careful when adding the new mods that it doesn't end up with C rotations being less rewarding than A or B. Because mods just as ephemeras turn into a junk reward once you have them.

I don't write on forums very often, this is actually my first post here. But on the whole first page i didn't see a single person stating how much fun it is having a game mode where you can play into rather high levels with good teams. I'm very worried that every challenge is getting removed here...

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2 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Absolutely nobody will use this one lol

boy... you fool. If I am reading it right it says melee combo on allies and yourself. Ever heard of slash dash augment???

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From the whole OP post, I seems to only see 'we will dilute the drop table further more!'...

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looks good, but there is still something missing.

you shouldn't even change the endo rewards. at all. the rewards we were getting with old rotations are the one we should get NOW, and that's it. ( in term of endo )

Second, you STILL haven't put an update to make it so the revive token in arbitration are something that you HAVE TO press a button to accept, rather than accidentally picking it up and be stuck with a debuff that you don't want, and got no way at all to get rid of. it's still one of the thing that makes me avoid arbitration. knowing that the death of the other players can #*!% me badly because they thought they could handle it, while finally, NOPE. Ho, also, change it so the tokens don't have to be lifted all the 5 at the same time, but rather dropped one by one. if we're gonna pay for other's incompetency, at least lets not make it horrible for us...

also : PLEASE don't put these arcanes and mods in the rotation rewards. at best, make it so they ALL drop from the drones, and at worse, you need to buy them in the shop. but don't dilute the loot table more...

TL:DR

1 : new rotation time, OLD endo reward. you don't change them at all. like... why?
2 : Change the token so you have to manually pick them up with a button. that should be common sense... and yet...
3 : the tokens can be brought one by one at a death tower
4 : put the new mods and arcanes in the vitus shop. diluting the endo drop loot tbale in an ENDO FARMING PLACE? what kind of mentality is that?!

Edited by mikakor
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I think Arbis should be keep as purely for endo farm its gr8 n challenging game mode and i definitely love to play so i can max rank my mods. For other rewards like kuva / stars etc. i definitely prefer something same as challenging but a different game mode to get any other rewards

Currently we hav index n profit-taker for credits. Similar way we need mission type dedicated for endo's. Senda hav good tile sets to farm n 2nd option is Arbitrations. Please dont ruin second option (and 1st in my opinion) of farming endos.

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I personally don't care about getting the mods from rotations, as long as the endo/time overall ends up being the same or better than before. This can the achieved (in the large scale) by splitting up the drop chances of existing mods/cosmetic drops and "distributing" it to all (old and new) mods/cosmetics.

However I want to underline what many others have said already: Please please please put the Seeding Step ephemera out of the reward pool and into the item pool of the virtus vendor. People who play arbitrations a lot have stacks of the blueprint and can't do anything with them. It goes against the purpose of the changes (making most of the arbitrations feel more rewarding), since getting Seeding Steps basically means getting no reward for that rotation. I can deal with "worthless" dupes of mods since you can at least transmute them or turn them into more endo, but getting Seeding Steps again and again really doesn't feel like my effort/time resulted in anything productive.

 

Edit: Forgot to say it... Otherwise I'm super happy with the changes. They are great!

Edited by Anhor
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this is a  VERY good thing and im happy to see this. i really approve of the changes.

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Right Idea

Rewards are not all that great besides the - self combo one. That is going to be really broken.

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I'm VERY happy with the rotations being changed across game modes, but this particular mod...

3 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:
  • Five new Aura mods that follow a more Nightmare or Corrupted style! (Final numbers will be posted in Update notes.)
    • Wicked Strikes: + Faster Charge Attack / + Combo Counter¬†

... THIS PARTICULAR MOD...

... doesn't really inspire confidence for, well, Melee 3.0 in its entirety.

In the game's current state, some of the WORST parts of the melee 2.0/2.9999999 system include the combo counter's insta-depletion (mandatory mod slot on nearly all weapons if you're not using Naramon) and charge attacks as a whole (hilariously slow and useless on anything besides glaives/gunblades/Zenistar). Adding mods centered around these mechanics, after all this time and all this feedback, feels like yall are just telling us that Melee 3.0 won't address the inherent problems of either mechanic.
(I have similar feelings regarding blocking/damagereflection and Amalgam Javlok Magazine Warp, which was added in the jupiter remaster. The mechanic is hot garbage at base for all weapons, and adding a bandaid mod does nothing to address that.)

 

Not to be a negative nancy in this thread full of amazing changes for Arbitrations, but... if mods like this are being added into the game this late into Melee 3.0's development, one can't help but be pessimistic about it IMO.

Edited by SortaRandom
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Edit: I do think most of these changes are good, but I still really do not want drop table dilution. Another idea, add the new mods/arcanes and the seeding step ephemera as a random very small drop chance on every enemy in an Arbi mission. This makes them remain something that must be RNG farmed for, if you really want them to remain that way, but doesn't dilute the rotation drop tables. 

Please for the love of all things holy, sacred, or otherwise, DON'T DILUTE the drop tables more. The drop tables should just be sculptures, endo, and maybe vitus essence. Move all other rewards to the arbitration shop so people that want those things can specifically buy those things with the massively increased amount of vitus essence they will be getting now, instead of having an increased amount of dead drops. 

Or at the VERY LEAST please just put the new arcanes and auras in the arbi shop, as well as the seeding step ephemera (since it being a random drop makes it worst of both worlds of getting it and having it, since once you have it, all other drops of it are useless, and it can be a pain to get if you really want it), and just leave everything else in the drop table.

Edited by SarcFa
More ideas, clarifying things

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3 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Ah nice, thanks a lot.

 

Edit: Oh alright, just one question. Any plans to balance out the mission types/factions a bit, or even let us select the nodes?

From what I've gathered it's ~50% Infested and Defence has the highest chance, just because there are more nodes of those:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I made a thread about this and only got a bunch of people saying how Infested is their favorite faction because they're the easiest to oneshot instead of anything constructive

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Personally, just make it so the regular enemies in the arbi' mission have a chance to drop these new mods instead of plopping them in the rotation pool itself from doing your objectives. Makes it a lot easier and doesn't dilute the pool.

Also, try not to nerf the endo gain THIS hard, as well as the Vitus spent. I can sort of understand the Vitus given the circumstances but, the Endo decrease is a bit much, I think, unless Ayatans are staying in the pool(which I assume they are), so that may balance it out given the increase in reward intensity, but yeah.

Edit: Maybe I missread, 75% of what it once was before? So if I'm getting that right, if you got a 2K endo reward before, you'd now get 1500? Or is it you now only get 25% of the reward? Idk.

Edited by AnOldAlias
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I like how these changes sound. Also those new mods and arcanes look interesting. Thanks for the update.

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Good finally some fresh air, and rewards every 5 mins survival 5 waves defence etc will make me want to play those missions more.

Now it's all good and fancy but alot of players myself included would love to hear what's DE position about Gauss Feedback threads, there's clearly some fine tuning needed about battery management ( i guess 1% drop rather than 10% per hit, and a significant boost to battery increase while using his 1st and his 3rd are a good start )

Some forms of ties to either strenght or efficiency for raising up the 100% meter once in his 4th so as not to spend 3/4 of the time trying to reach 100% or the higher duration the faster... stuffs like that

Waiting.

Edited by arm4geddon-117

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Overall, I am glad that arbitrations is getting looked at again and am glad that they're reducing the rotation times and adding vitus drops to the arby drones. I also agree with many others in that the new aura mods and arcanes should be placed into the Arbitration Offerings, as to not dilute the drop tables with things that people only have a reason to get once.  The ephemera needs to be placed into the Offerings as well since it is another "once and done" reward - this would alleviate the issue of people accumulating multiple blueprints and being unable to get rid of them.

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1 hour ago, vFlitz said:

I'll admit that having combo counter time on an aura is unexpectedly tempting (especially if it's a 9 capacity one like the other melee aura, Steel Charge) but the charge attack is really a wasted bonus.

Will it really be Combo Counter Duration, tho?

By the wording, it could be something like Relentless Combination.

2 hours ago, Lysander said:

Why tho latest?cb=20190518012521

I asked myself the same thing when I first saw this mod.

The regular one already fully heals your pet in a single strike.

The only reason I can see someone using the new arcane, is to save a slot in their companion build.

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The reduction of rotation length for the different modes was LONG overdue and hardly worth of praise considering it took you so long. Most of other changes you made are pretty horrible though. While the rewards of the modes everyone ignored beforehand are now at least somewhat in line with Excavation they are still slower based on what we have seen from the dedicated squads even before you changed the extractor timer back down.

I understand the change in rotation and endo rewards as well as the increase in Vitus Essence prices. Those, while a nerf to rewards, aren't a big problem... And then you chose to make it as unrewarding as possible by diluting the reward table with such a staggering amount of crap it blows my mind. From experience none of those auras will be worth a damn and my expectation for the arcanes is also pretty low. Not to mention that there is no reason anyone would want several copies of those items. You seem totally incapable of learning it is shocking. People have complained about duplicate Ephemera drops for months and you chose to add several more of those to the pile.

In addition to that you even went further and added a 5x Cyan Star bundle to the table? At least you added a Vitus Essence bundle as well so players can use them... /s      This is a bad joke.

 

All in all what I expected after the first change. One step forward two steps back. I expect the "player feedback" will be ignored and pretty much everything here will be released as is. This sure as hell hasn't increased my desire to play this mess of a mode.

Edited by KuroB
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33 minutes ago, AnOldAlias said:

Maybe I missread, 75% of what it once was before? So if I'm getting that right, if you got a 2K endo reward before, you'd now get 1500? Or is it you now only get 25% of the reward? Idk.

"Endo rewards will be reduced TO roughly 75% of what they once were"

So, 2000 endo becomes 1500 endo.

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This sounds very promising and a great compromise across the board. Good job! I just hope the kuva per purchase will be worth it & not fall into the same deathtrap that kuva disruption rewards give players. 

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44 minutes ago, MithrasWarsong said:

No! Please don't do this!

There is a very good reason why especially survival should give rewards at a lower rate than other mission types. And that's simply because it is super easy and only based on a timer to go down. How good you play is practically irrelevant for survival! Thus survival offering same rewards as the other missions will make all other mission types kinda useless and everyone will afk camp survivals.

How much skill does Excavation actually take? Having Vazarin's invul + heal on dash maxed, and then dashing back and forth through an excavator with Magus Lockdown isn't something that requires literally any skill. It's just dashing back and forth every ~3-4 seconds, and the only 'skill' involved is not going insane from doing only that for hours on end.

44 minutes ago, MithrasWarsong said:

Also the fact that excavation is rather rare in the available arbitrations and more rewarding (for good teams) than the other modes really helps finding a team for it. Right now this is the only game mode where I can find people who actually want to stay in the mission past lvls of 500 or so. If all arbitrations give similar rewards there will be much less incentive to stay in a mission for long and what little end game we have gets reduced even more. ūüėě The C rotations alone are not much incentive to stay in the mission as they are not much better than A or B and 20 mins to unlock C rota is also pretty fast.

The incentive is constant C rewards. I'd also add there isn't much draw to the other gamemodes for level 500+, because most people don't want to play Survival where they sit as an Operator for hours spamming Lockdown mines.

44 minutes ago, MithrasWarsong said:

Thinking about the rotations please be careful when adding the new mods that it doesn't end up with C rotations being less rewarding than A or B. Because mods just as ephemeras turn into a junk reward once you have them.

I don't write on forums very often, this is actually my first post here. But on the whole first page i didn't see a single person stating how much fun it is having a game mode where you can play into rather high levels with good teams. I'm very worried that every challenge is getting removed here...

You can still play into the high levels with good teams. The only challenge is staying awake, and doing the same dash spam forever. You can still do that though! The only change to Excavation is 2 Excavators but normal Excavation time, so you can still Void Dash to your heart's content up to an arbitrary enemy level. If that's what you want to do it is still entirely available, and still gives rewards.

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Cool changes but I dont see anything addressing the fact that there are several warframes that dont benefit from increasing power strength like what am I supposed to do with a 400% strength Loki go invisible harder or

; 400% Vauban cant cc enemies that are immune because of the drones;

400% Trinity what's the point of more strength than 200% ;

400% Nyx same thing as Vauban and the mind controlled target still cant kill more than fodder enemies;

400% limbo, come on now we all know Limbo is only meant to grief and burn people's retinas;

400% revenant,  I'm sorry in what world does anyone use that hot garbage frame.

Lol I'm venting hard because of a long day but honestly the whole focusing only on strength and having the drones make anything within ten meters immune to literally everything has made it so that only a few frames benefit from the buff. If this was the intention that's so biased, if it wasnt it should be obvious it needs to be fixed.

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how about you move all the unwanted mods , endo , sculpture and all the common drops in arbitration shop
and then arbitration will only reward vitus essence and rare drops,  ephemera, aura forma , and whatnot

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53 minutes ago, Midas said:

Most good Digital Extremes. Most good. Better be 5k kuva per 3 vitus essence btw.

you mean better be 10 K ? it would be at least reasonable.

 

... i bet it's gonna be something worthless like 20K kuva... for 20 god damn vitus essence.

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Just now, MakubexKido said:

how about you move all the unwanted mods-

they are in the shop already it's called cautious shot

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