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Wondering what kind of challenge and content we can have in warframe

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We have content droughts because DE has shifted to going after the big reveals like plains, fortuna and railjack. They do this because the tennocon reveal spikes their new players more than the stuff actually releasing. This is also the first time I hear about people complaining about more frequent smaller updates. I'm afraid this will be a trend for every tennocon now: DE trying to one up themselves but pushing everything back because they cant develop that fast.

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i just wish DE would go back to smaller things so they could pump out content faster i wouldn't care if its small things i just want something to do in this game

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First off, my name is Ozymandias, not Polyphemus. So don't blind me. 

Second, it wasn't a majority of the community, just some. And it has nothing to do wth DE's shift in content style or frequency. If they listened to every demand we give they would've reworked certain frames correctly the first time around and they would've fixed enemy scaling. 

They've got their agenda and are working on projects accordingly, seemingly based more on internal feedback.

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People were asking were for DE to 'take a break' from updates and go through and fix the problems with the game, things like enemy scaling/balance, bugs etc, not completely stop adding new stuff.... 

Now the 'delay' on railjack wouldn't be so bad if they'd actually hit their original deadline (that was tennocon iirc) and they'd have actually gone through and fixed stuff but in all honesty most of the big issues from back there are still in the game because to put it bluntly DE pretty much ignore everything else but the 'big update' they're working on.

Yes we've had some changes to reward tables (not sure we'd have got that without the data mining issues in all honesty), a little revamp to a few maps (which had started before railjack), a couple of things added that didn't hit their original deadline (exploiter orb etc) and basically just a tweaked version of existing content in nightwave (which isn't really new stuff, it's just a new wrapper in most cases) and disruption (excavation 2.0).   But when you look at things subjectively DE are currently focusing too heavily on the 'next big thing' rather than smaller more regular updates, hell even items from baro are suffering and we haven't even had as many 'special events' while they've been working on railjack.

Also I'd say the consensus back then was also that most preferred smaller more regular updates rather than the big updates which essentially only keep us interested until we've 'finished it' like PoE and OV.

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Curious, I would have sworn that the community has been asking for an endgame since at least 5 years, not for short-lived content that you'll never go back to once finished 🤔

Edited by Ultimatesoup
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I would also prefer smaller but regular updates. I have no interest in Railjack or the Plains of Duviri because I'm more interested in Warframes base gameplay of being a magic space ninja jumping around and blasting through levels with magic space guns. Not spaceships or Operators or open worlds. I'd be content with less content if I believed the base game was being improved upon, rather than having a fresh new gimmick stapled onto it that I'll have to suffer through to get the things I can have fun with in the normal gameplay of Warframe.

Disruption was a nice addition though. I think it's a good new mission type and I plan on playing more of it, especially since its reward structure actually rewards putting in more effort to play it perfectly, which makes it feel engaging and keeps it from getting too mind-numbing. So good job on that one.

Edited by (NSW)ToadBlue
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Yea somehow I prefer actual content over 2 weapons, a warframe and 5 new useless mods each week but that´s just my opinion. If I want to spend my entire warframe experience on Hydroid I´d forma weapons and warframe to level 100 or something.

Edited by Arcira

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did we basically asked for it? kinda. did DE give us that polish we asked for? nope. we got new modes, new frames, new weapons, new bosses, some events, a story quest, weekly dailies, and open world but were any of these sustainable content? no. why? because the gameplay itself is mostly a broken mess that become more noticeable when u find it and stare at it for so many years. 

did we get damage 3.0? completed melee 3.0? fixed scaling? well made enemies? proper ehp values? adjusted nuking? improved gun play? tuned mechanics? consistent lore? better progression? good pvp? raids 2.0? or even a reason to even play besides cheesing everything? nope.

the game has issues every stage of the game from starting as a new player with no incentive objective or story thats interesting with just a confusing sandbox gameplay that leaves ppl thinking its pay to win for reasons. going into mid game where ppl finally click is still off cuz there is nothing interesting but dull enemies that give u this sense of power like its suppose to be a sugar rush that they expect to last for a long period of time doing the same dull grinder and not have ppl feel a sugar crash later. then finally as a veteran what is there to do? whats the point in using most your gear if u can just insta clear the whole map at once, whats the point in playing if u just become tanky/invisible to basically do nothing till enemies scale hard enough to one shot u with a random bullet with a screen cluttered in mostly unclear animations and effects or u camp in a corner with a repeated pattern to cheese harder doing the same thing for hours, even against dangerous high lvl enemies i dont feel motivated to look at the screen anymore but just shoot randomly hoping self dmg doesnt kill me first. is there tough accomplishments with a clear set pallet you should be learning to utilize everything u own in some way, shape, or form, by actual gameplay? lets talk about the old raids and why they werent as popular, for one most ppl just started the game so obviously they werent jumping for raids right away but also the gameplay still wasnt the greatest but it was the farthest you could had gone especially when it was compared to cough* destiny raids cough*. pvp, even quake fast pace gameplay was more organized than conclave but even then that game barely struggled, from the fact u need to mod to mobility to abilities to maps to gunplay to everything! feels horrible.

Lets be honest though, im pretty sure it might be too late to give feedback cuz ppl had been for years and itll end the same with ppl giving a bunch of random idea with many making no sense and others simply saying nothing needs to change at all then de makes a change no one asked for and they desperately release a hype video that spike its player base to all only leave in about just a month until they run out of new players to look for. if they wanna keep the gameplay in a droll loop state then id say let em cuz i doubt anything will change anymore. if you enjoy the current state then youre more likely to be lucky to enjoy it as you always had but if u have any kind of expectation that they basically tease u with everyday with vast systems and mechanics that feels unfinished then its best to pull the plug. 

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41 минуту назад, SutomuDrgn сказал:

did we basically asked for it? kinda. did DE give us that polish we asked for? nope. we got new modes, new frames, new weapons, new bosses, some events, a story quest, weekly dailies, and open world but were any of these sustainable content? no. why? because the gameplay itself is mostly a broken mess that become more noticeable when u find it and stare at it for so many years. 

did we get damage 3.0? completed melee 3.0? fixed scaling? well made enemies? proper ehp values? adjusted nuking? improved gun play? tuned mechanics? consistent lore? better progression? good pvp? raids 2.0? or even a reason to even play besides cheesing everything? nope.

the game has issues every stage of the game from starting as a new player with no incentive objective or story thats interesting with just a confusing sandbox gameplay that leaves ppl thinking its pay to win for reasons. going into mid game where ppl finally click is still off cuz there is nothing interesting but dull enemies that give u this sense of power like its suppose to be a sugar rush that they expect to last for a long period of time doing the same dull grinder and not have ppl feel a sugar crash later. then finally as a veteran what is there to do? whats the point in using most your gear if u can just insta clear the whole map at once, whats the point in playing if u just become tanky/invisible to basically do nothing till enemies scale hard enough to one shot u with a random bullet with a screen cluttered in mostly unclear animations and effects or u camp in a corner with a repeated pattern to cheese harder doing the same thing for hours, even against dangerous high lvl enemies i dont feel motivated to look at the screen anymore but just shoot randomly hoping self dmg doesnt kill me first. is there tough accomplishments with a clear set pallet you should be learning to utilize everything u own in some way, shape, or form, by actual gameplay? lets talk about the old raids and why they werent as popular, for one most ppl just started the game so obviously they werent jumping for raids right away but also the gameplay still wasnt the greatest but it was the farthest you could had gone especially when it was compared to cough* destiny raids cough*. pvp, even quake fast pace gameplay was more organized than conclave but even then that game barely struggled, from the fact u need to mod to mobility to abilities to maps to gunplay to everything! feels horrible.

Lets be honest though, im pretty sure it might be too late to give feedback cuz ppl had been for years and itll end the same with ppl giving a bunch of random idea with many making no sense and others simply saying nothing needs to change at all then de makes a change no one asked for and they desperately release a hype video that spike its player base to all only leave in about just a month until they run out of new players to look for. if they wanna keep the gameplay in a droll loop state then id say let em cuz i doubt anything will change anymore. if you enjoy the current state then youre more likely to be lucky to enjoy it as you always had but if u have any kind of expectation that they basically tease u with everyday with vast systems and mechanics that feels unfinished then its best to pull the plug. 

This text is upsettingly true.

Despite all the good feedback and suggestions (not including copying other games or plain sweet wishlists) DE keeps going the same direction.

I'd be happy if quality of existing content got better, so DE could get more revenue and value of already existing playerbase and not reeling newcomers and returners on a hype hook. Because after the hype comes disenchantment.

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Il y a 1 heure, SutomuDrgn a dit :

did we basically asked for it? kinda. did DE give us that polish we asked for? nope. we got new modes, new frames, new weapons, new bosses, some events, a story quest, weekly dailies, and open world but were any of these sustainable content? no. why? because the gameplay itself is mostly a broken mess that become more noticeable when u find it and stare at it for so many years. 

did we get damage 3.0? completed melee 3.0? fixed scaling? well made enemies? proper ehp values? adjusted nuking? improved gun play? tuned mechanics? consistent lore? better progression? good pvp? raids 2.0? or even a reason to even play besides cheesing everything? nope.

the game has issues every stage of the game from starting as a new player with no incentive objective or story thats interesting with just a confusing sandbox gameplay that leaves ppl thinking its pay to win for reasons. going into mid game where ppl finally click is still off cuz there is nothing interesting but dull enemies that give u this sense of power like its suppose to be a sugar rush that they expect to last for a long period of time doing the same dull grinder and not have ppl feel a sugar crash later. then finally as a veteran what is there to do? whats the point in using most your gear if u can just insta clear the whole map at once, whats the point in playing if u just become tanky/invisible to basically do nothing till enemies scale hard enough to one shot u with a random bullet with a screen cluttered in mostly unclear animations and effects or u camp in a corner with a repeated pattern to cheese harder doing the same thing for hours, even against dangerous high lvl enemies i dont feel motivated to look at the screen anymore but just shoot randomly hoping self dmg doesnt kill me first. is there tough accomplishments with a clear set pallet you should be learning to utilize everything u own in some way, shape, or form, by actual gameplay? lets talk about the old raids and why they werent as popular, for one most ppl just started the game so obviously they werent jumping for raids right away but also the gameplay still wasnt the greatest but it was the farthest you could had gone especially when it was compared to cough* destiny raids cough*. pvp, even quake fast pace gameplay was more organized than conclave but even then that game barely struggled, from the fact u need to mod to mobility to abilities to maps to gunplay to everything! feels horrible.

Lets be honest though, im pretty sure it might be too late to give feedback cuz ppl had been for years and itll end the same with ppl giving a bunch of random idea with many making no sense and others simply saying nothing needs to change at all then de makes a change no one asked for and they desperately release a hype video that spike its player base to all only leave in about just a month until they run out of new players to look for. if they wanna keep the gameplay in a droll loop state then id say let em cuz i doubt anything will change anymore. if you enjoy the current state then youre more likely to be lucky to enjoy it as you always had but if u have any kind of expectation that they basically tease u with everyday with vast systems and mechanics that feels unfinished then its best to pull the plug. 

1484264625-risitas-this.png

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Anytime anyone asks DE to take a break from adding new stuff, it's because they want them to go back and fix what is already there. But they aren't doing that right now, are they? They are so focused on all their new gigantic updates that they have no room left for interim updates of any kind. So we have no new content, and no old bug fixes. Just waiting.

Plus, as far as I have seen, all these big updates are taking way longer than they should because they have succumbed to feature creep and gotten way too ambitious. Despite that, when Empyrian finally comes out, I wonder just how long it will keep most people interested? And then, how long will we have to wait for the next big update?

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Problem is, they asked for "Take a break from huge updates, and go back and work on content that hasn't been touched in years". And that HASN'T happened.

Clans? Conclave? Lunaro? Raids? Solar Rails? Damage 3.0? Scaling damage/health fixes? Enemies with mechanics (not sponges)? Proper energy economy? Removal of Nuking? Improved shooter aspects? Return of wallrunning? Return of old events? Quests for every planet? Endgame modes that aren't trivialized by nuking?

 None of that was added to, touched on, or fixed. None of it's even mentioned, and for what DE IS releasing... its coming once every 2 years or so? But its not sustainable.

People say its because DE is a small indie dev, but they're over 300 people now, they're not "small" anymore. They may not be AAA, but they're definitely not that same indie dev with 20 people.

Edited by Talonflight
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11 minutes ago, Talonflight said:

People say its because DE is a small indie dev, but they're over 300 people now, they're not "small" anymore. They may not be AAA, but they're definitely not that same indie dev with 20 people.

Note, only 120-150 of those 300 employees are the actual programmers.

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6 hours ago, Atsia said:

Note, only 120-150 of those 300 employees are the actual programmers.

they still have a hell of a lot more staff than they used to; and back in the day, they had event-quests with new content every couple of months. Content has slowed down since the old days, while their numbers and resources have increased. There is no excuse for a company to have less content, but more workers and money. 

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On 2019-09-27 at 4:15 AM, WingR84 said:

If they would just know how much money i would spend if there would be a reason to do it. I mean any release that gives a new weapon/frame makes you buy slots in theory(if you dont give drops from twitch or seasonrewards that give you slots faster than you need them because of their release speed).

I dont spend money, because if i buy stuff... then what do i grind? I would take away the little gameplay that they add.
I have plat... but if i use it to buy the missing arcanes then i cant kill eidlons anymore.. what would i do then? Farm Kuva with arbi... a missiontype that i cant start when i want, because the missiontype is random. Oh... did i tell you that i also cant grind eidolons when i feel like it? Maybe next time i drop an argonscope...i could buy it.. but why?

The last thing i brought was as a new player... spent 300 plat on a rhino prime BP that then got unvaulted 3 days later (i mean they revealed the unvault event).

That's the thing, giving us end game gives us NO reason to spend money.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Ceanmunt said:

That's the thing, giving us end game gives us NO reason to spend money.

Replay-ability = increased time in game. If players spend more time in game due to whatever cause whether it be endgame etc a player is likely to spend money in said game the longer peirod they are in said game. Especially with how the prices of rivens are. not just Rivens however. More playtime and more exposure to micro transactions leads a consumer to be more likely to buy it. (Not for everyone) but it’s a nice note. More active players means more potential profit to be made via micro transactions. 

 

But this isnt definite 

Edited by (PS4)sweatshawp

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On 2019-09-25 at 8:30 AM, Oreades said:

Durability...... yeah strait up the day they add durability is the day I quit Warframe cold turkey, 

Good thing ordis takes his time in the foundry to make your weapons maintenance free instead of going instantly with chance to break

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Posted (edited)

I am kinda tired of interesting stuff generally being saved for tennocon and that mostly being it for the big updates of the year. That and DE are going to run out of 'amazing' reveals rather soon... 

I've always been in favour of fixing past content and qol changes for the time being, provided there's actually significant progress in this area. Doesn't seem like there has been. Melee and scaling and all this stuff seems like it's just been dragged around for far too long. 

Edited by Valiant
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Personally I said during the War Within that these long projects are a waste of time as they produce little play value.

Veterans have been asking for sustainable content the whole time. Doesn't need to be new. Just needs to work and have long term play value goals. We get none of that. Half the "new" content we get is just a twist on old content and the play time sure as hell isn't there. PoE 2 weeks, Fortuna 10 days, Jupiter 3 days.

The last content we got was just moving Disruption to other tilesets and the patch notes read like a book as if there was substance. I'd go far as to say we get just about nothing we ask for. Who asked for Frame Fighter? Lunaro? This guitar crap? Pretty sure that number is 0.

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As others have mentioned, content drought in Warframe didn't arise because of a few content creators saying Warframe had enough stuff, it arose because DE decided to shift towards big, monolithic updates that they could easily advertize at TennoCon to get massive inflows of new players. The problem is unfortunately that many of these updates thus far have failed to add longevity to the game, which is why we're often stuck with nothing to do in-between: Fortuna took around a year to develop, for example, yet within a few weeks many players ended up having no reason to come back to it after grinding all the limited content within. Because the area had no connection to the rest of the game, it therefore ended up being dead to those players until the next content update. The fact that the Vallis hasn't even been added to the Sortie zone pool, unlike the Plains of Eidolon, doesn't help, and is also a clear indicator that DE doesn't really do the best job of connecting the different pieces of their game.

In general, DE has the problem of being great at delivering the big picture, but being absolutely terrible at polishing the details: it's amazing to be able to play some radically new piece of content, but at the end of the day we also end up facing the same problems every time we play, which ends up amplifying them in our eyes. DE also seems to either not know how to deliver sustainable content, or not really be concerned by it, as outside of a few hyper-grindy games modes, namely ESO and Arbitrations, plus the legitimately amazing update that was The Jovian Concord, most new content we get is just its own island, which severely limits its contribution to the game's long-term play value. This is a problem that has been brought up since PoE, yet little to nothing has been done to address it. As such, we're likely to be stuck in this same mode of content drought until DE finally takes the time to perform the comprehensive systemic changes the game needs, which may take some time given how that would require time off of delivering the next big flashy thing.

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Posted (edited)

Edit: Used wrong quote.

Am 26.9.2019 um 09:19 schrieb 844448:

At higher level, the enemies merely become tougher to kill and hit you harder to the point of one shot, is that your view on challenge? I think it's more to normal progression on other games except we can't get better defensive equipment like armor

Keyword we are looking for is:

Dungeon

"Underground Adventures"

With a possible path to access:

"Hardcore Dungeon"

*/////*

• Rooms of respawning targets only at that room and a limited amount of targets per room. Not 100 but between 5 -30 targets in room, the deeper you go into the dungeons.

 

To get deeper into dungoens, rushing to higher lvl/difficulty rooms, you need teamplay and different unit typs, like using a unit able to stealth to lead the group to the wanted room and then stealth to lose agro from following enemies which then rush back to their room(s). So squishy team members avoid getting riped up walking through without a path to off all agro.

Any healing generates agro. So healing by abilities or gear items needs to be used carefully or the target(s) might focus atacking one not supposed to take the dmg.

More class role gameplay. More care for other team members. Grind together in group. Get rewards for beeing able to kill fast enough. The better the KS (KillSpeed) the better the drop chances of rar items.

*/////*

 

What by all this talking about end game, gets forgotten,

We might have End game WEAPONS

But no END GAME GEAR

Talking about "vitality stats" increase of frames.

 

• Why not add into dungeons:

Lvl2, Lvl3,... Carapace/Systems/Neurobics...

To be replacing the parts of the OLD STANDART toast frame parts with 

Better ones, may also add different passives per part (may rng added attributs) like +5% cast speed +2% HpRegen

Different (rng) combos, could be dual could be single stats could be trible stats. The higher the lvl of frame part the higher the stats at base are increasing + higher passive bonus stats.

//////

Just smt worth to get stronger and able to move deeper into dungeon(s) and if available Hardcore Dungeons.

/////

 

And no.

Warframe got no dungeons

Everything is on the upper ground besides MINING <~ those could be the paths to enter/access dungeon(s).

My 5 cents.

 

Cheers

Edited by P0Pz

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38 minutes ago, P0Pz said:

Keyword we are looking for is:

Dungeon

Underground Adventures

With a possible path to access:

Hardcore Dungeons.

*/////*

• rooms of respawning targets only at that room and a limited amount of targets per room. Not 100 but between 5 -30 targets in room, the deeper you go into the dungeons.

 

To get deeper into dungoens, rush to higher lvl/difficulty rooms you need team and different unit typs to avoid getting riped up.

*/////*

 

What by all this talking about end game talking, always getting forgotten,

We might have end game WEAPONS

But no END GAME GEAR

Talking about "vitality stats" increase of frames.

 

• Why not add into dungeons:

Lvl2 Carapace/Systems/...

To be replacing the parts of the OLD STANDART toast frame parts with 

Better, may also add different passives per part (may rng added attributs) like +5% cast speed +2% HpRegen

Different (rng) combos

//////

Just smt worth to get stronger and able to move deeper into dungeon(s) and if available Hardcore Dungeons.

/////

 

And no.

Warframe got no dungoens

Everything is on the upper ground besides MINING <~ those could be the paths to enter/access dungeons.

My 5 cents.

 

Cheers

What does this have to do with what you quoted?

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vor 10 Minuten schrieb (PS4)sweatshawp:

What does this have to do with what you quoted?

Damn wanted to quote the one above this one i used by mistake.

Sorry my friend.

This is the right one. Will change it. Ty again.

Am 26.9.2019 um 09:19 schrieb 844448:

At higher level, the enemies merely become tougher to kill and hit you harder to the point of one shot, is that your view on challenge? I think it's more to normal progression on other games except we can't get better defensive equipment like armor

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I playing Waframe for 8-10 Months and after 4 Months I was done with "normal" content. There were only Kuva grinding and syndicates like cetus,fortuna etc to do and mastery lvling.There obviosly no content for high lvl. To stay longer in a mission isnt rewarding but there are the stronger mobs. Like I heard a comeback of raids would be nice and improve the game for high lvls.

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Content; the ever evolving elephant in the room.

Let me being by saying I am a new player...super new, really. I enjoy the game and have put a few hundred hours in already and I know I am just barely scratching the surface. However, I see content creators and veterans talking about a lack of content late game and I can see that "drought" coming for me. But, I am hopeful. And, I still very much enjoy Warframe (probably will for a while yet).

But, being a writer myself, I couldn't help but think a bit creatively about how DE could approach the idea of content and endgame.This weekend I was working on one of my novels and, out of no where, an idea hit me. I apologize in advance if this is long winded, in the wrong area of the forum, or if the idea has been thrown around already but- I'd like to see where it goes. Comments and input are welcome:

 We've all heard content drought before. Lack of "endgame", lack of story/lore, repetition, and lack of challenge. I -think- I have a way of solving these with relative ease while taking into account a wide variety of opinions and styles. When this idea hit me, I was remembering back when I played the first Guild Wars game and when my (already well established clan) helped me unlock more story by taking me through the Ascension process. It made my character stronger in the game, unlocked more story, etc. Now, what if DE did something similar?

So, we take Warframe Prime parts out of relics and leave the weapon parts as they are. Maybe toss some rarer mods into relics as well. Revamp the relic system a bit (this honestly doesn't bother me too much. A bit grindy and RNG, sure but hey whatev) and make "lock" the relic missions behind the level cap so lower levels people can't leech. But, in turn, make the lower tiered weapons a bit easier to farm and help it transition players from early to mid game and from mid to late.

Now, what to do about WF prime parts? Here is where the bulk of my idea lies. Leave Nightwave missions as a early to mid side story. Then lock away the primed warframes like you did with certain maps in the game. Moving forward, let's use Rhino as an example here. Now, in order to get a primed warframe look back to my guild wars tale and introduce what I am calling "The Crucible" and treat it like a series of mastery tests/lore/nightwave missions all in one. Create a 5 part story for a frame. In this case, rhino. Maybe make part 1 and 2 group based, part 3 and 4 solo, and part 5 a boss battle. But, with each part of the story give a PP BP. For part 1, we get the rhino prime Neuroptics, part 2 the systems, and so on. If you want to add a level of depth, even make it so that the story ties into the part.Like, Rhino could be a soldier flashing back to an important battle and the neuroptics mission could highlight his mindset during the battle.  

In turn, also make these quests for high level players testing their builds and skills with those frames in a group and in a solo situation. Part of the beauty of WF (without spending plat) is the sense of accomplishment you get when building a frame or getting the stuff you want. Make people earn primed warframes. It would add story/lore, new content, and endgame content.

Ok, so then if  we lock away primed frames what about those that wanna spend plat and skip the grind? Cool! easy. 1. Maybe they can buy the primed frame but can't use it until level X. 2. Maybe if they buy the frame they don't get the story, it still has to be unlocked through the crucible. 3. maybe the crucible adds a buff or "symbol" showing that those who have done have truly earned it.

So in short:

1. treat prime weapons as achievements/trophies moving from early to mid or mid to late game. maybe revamp relic missions or even tie them to certain planetary objectives like a node test at the end of a planet or something.

2. Add story/endgame content as well as a challenge by creating a type of endgame nightwave that only skilled/high level/veterans can access that tests their abilities while also adding story

3. Make the primed frames tied to these stories and treat them (instead of fashion frame) as an achievement

 

Anyway, I'd love thoughts or questions. Cheers! 

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