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The_Pegasus_Box

A New Player’s Opinion: Nyx

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You have probably read the title and have come to a few conclusions off the bat, I aim to dispel those as quickly as possible, or perhaps confirm a few others?

This is my opinion. I have been playing warframe consecutively for about 200 hours on PC, which is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. I have just completed The War Within, experienced the market for the first time and got the final part for Equinox Prime, discovered the joy of a 8 hour grind session on Helene, Saturn, stuck at MR8 because I can’t get past the MR9 test, and finally found my Raifu, the Corinth shotgun.

I. AM. A. NEW. PLAYER.

I do not have the endless experience most reviewers may have, or the knowledge of inner game mechanics I have yet to discover. Level 40 “trash mobs” are my challenge, and fighting eidolons looks like an impossible task. So why should you listen to me?

Well, because I am new. I have spent a large majority of my life (too large probably) beta-testing and supporting games. World of tanks/warships, war thunder, Black desert online, the like. Most of these games I have played since their alpha, six plus years ago. And I have found, perhaps unsurprisingly, that new players reviewing content often see things older players don’t. A ship is unbalanced, a character is weak, a gun is broken. It is, as always, up to you wether or not you agree, disagree, fart in your cereal, or join the conclave.

I just ask for a simple moment of time.

And thus this journey through Nyx begins, and all the faults she brings in her wake.

 

50 days into warframe I got my first 75% off for a platinum purchase. I was ecstatic, and spent it on 1000 of the rare resource as it was all the irl money I could spare. It was not to buy cosmetics or the equinox prime systems I got the day I write this review, it was for warframe slots and weapon slots.

Untill I saw a Nyx skin I couldn’t let go.

I bought it for my unplayed Nyx, and immediately started grinding the frame. I have always been a fan of mind control in games or other such things. I frequent the alteration and illusion schools in Skyrim every playthrough. Nyx is squishy, and that is no complaint. I don’t mind a squishy frame so long as it is good at not being hit in the first place. Strangely enough, this is what Nyx is good at. Nyx as a frame isn’t bad, she has a decent amount of health and shields and can mount the energy regain in her aura slot. What makes her bad is her abilities, which all exist in a stage of uselessness. Yes, even her four.

The first ability I had access too was the Mind Control and I loved it. Even fighting the content I have just reached on Sedna and Pluto, 30-40, I find it usefully useless. It is the first of Nyx’s CC of “Not Being Shot”. All CC involves not being shot, but Nyx’s abilities seems to be entirely based on the idea of who is shooting what, evident the first time I (accidentally) hit the 1 key. It reminded me of Skyrim immediately, the Frenzy spell. The ability to target a tough enemy unit and make him shoot his allies is incredibly powerful. Fighting in a tile set and suddenly a Nox shows up? One of those annoying engineer Corpus that spawn the shocky rolly ball things? The night wave assassins trying too hard? Hippidy hoppidy it’s now your property.

This ability, even when in parties of four is still useful. Suddenly not having a gunner or a nox shooting at your teammates or yourself is a benefit that can’t be ignored. Unfortunately that’s where the extent of the ability’s usefulness ends. The enemy can be shot for the first few seconds, and will take the damage back when the 1 is cancelled or ends, but why would you do that? You have the whole greener army breathing down your Tenno skoom neck! You have better things to do. Since it can’t be damaged by allies or enemies after those few seconds, it takes a bit of damage when the ability ends and goes right back to shooting you. The ability is useful, it is, but it would be more useful if the enemy you mind control could be damaged by you, your teammates, or everyone constantly, and the more damage it takes the more damage it does. Also, getting a Arson or Napalm is fun.

Nyx’s second ability, Psychic Bolts, at first seemed to me like a less-useful armor strip from when I played Mag. I was surprised to learn that the armour strip/ shield drain could be used in Infected to weaken them, or the fact it could be cast multiple times without dissipating the effect. Nyx’s bolts makes killing anything easy. Spam it a few times and watch everything die in combination with your 3. It appears to Nyx’s most useful ability, and perhaps a little underrated. Upon writing this I still struggle to find a situation where it isn’t useful, technically. The main issue is that it’s a set of five bolts at level 30, but you cannot target the main threats. Unlike mag where you just strip everything, Nyx has to cast this 25 energy ability several times, making it ridiculously expensive to archive the desired effect. The ability is usefully useless, and to be honest just feels weird in a Professor X frame.

The ability is the least useful in its class. Armour strip is all well and good but most frames do it to all enemies around them, not just five picked at random. It is a useful ability to strip armour but it is utterly useless in its implementation. Being unable to decide what loses it’s armour and when feels like a shot in the kneecap, you feel crippled by the energy drain needed to make the ability work. Even worse the ability still doesn’t do damage even though you are shoving a green rod in someone’s chest and ripping their armour or shields off.

Nyx’s third ability I unlocked feeling the weight of the frame on me. I was already seeing the writing on the wall for Nyx to become my favourite frame, but also one that has been left behind in the string of reworks. Her ability Chaos became a small beacon of hope for this frame I was beginning to like. As I stated before it was easy to see Nyx’s main form of CC was “not being shot”. This ability turned my enemies against each other in a splash of, well, chaos. I feared no longer the mobs of enemies with bombards and heavy gunners, a tap of the 3 key made me suddenly invisible to their eyes. In my humble opinion Nyx’s 3 is her most useful ability out of a set of bad abilities. A CC that doesn’t CC, but also one that does. If the enemies could simply shoot themselves in the heads instead of each other, it could easily be the ability everyone plays Nyx for.

Winston Churchill once said “the worst form of governance is democracy, except all the others” or something like that I can’t remember. Well, the worst of Nyx’s abilities is her 3, except all the others. As a CC frame Nyx can turn the battlefield against itself, an ability no others can. Nekros may have his thralls or Harrow his weird ghostly things (I think it’s harrow, I get him and Revenant confused a lot) but Nyx doesn’t need enemies to die for them to shoot at each other. In missions like defence, this I find is even more useful. However, like democracy, it’s not perfect. It’s just better than all the others in a sea of bad.

Nyx’s 4 is useless.

Its a controversial opinion I know. I have heard many a respectable warframe player say her 4 is the only thing keeping her from being the next Wukong. I humbly disagree. It’s her 3 that keeps her from dying, simply because her chaos causes the enemy to damage each other. Her 4 is worse. I don’t even agree with the name. It’s not even absorbing anything but damage, and any other frame can do that and do it better. The damage buff afterwards is nice, but it doesn’t last long without primed mods (which I don’t have) or, I assume, high level enemies (which I can’t fight yet). Being invincible is OP, but being unable to move or shoot back just makes the ability a worse defy. It’s damage is negligible, it’s CC is nonexistent, it’s use is useless. In all my time using Nyx I haven’t had a situation where I had to use this ability where a splash of 2 or a tap of 3 hasn’t solved it for me.

And thus I had access to all of Nyx, and found myself wanting. By the time she became 30 I had fallen in love with the frame, and would gladly call myself a “Nyx Main”. Nyx has strange and unseen CC, useless abilities and subtlety useful ones. She is a frame I enjoy but even as a new player who truly did believe there was no such thing as bad gear (until I used the kraken) I could see the faults in Nyx.

 

I feel like all this has been missing something. A segment I can’t identify or a bit of opinion left. Nyx is the first frame I spent real money on fashion-frame yet her ability set, what warframes rely on, is just bad. Nyx is a bad frame but she’s not Old Wukong bad. Her abilities have some use, they just don’t fit in the meta. She’s like a vauban with different CC, and I’m surprised I don’t see more people calling for a Nyx rework. Personally I have no idea how to do such a thing, I just think having mind control enemies be able to be shot while their damage ramps up the more damage they take, or having chaos enemies commit suicide would just be useful or cool. I haven’t used any of Nyx’s augments, or any primed reaches or flows or any such. The Nyx I have is the Nyx most people will see, and she isn’t that good. She’s usefully useless.

And now my opinion piece ends, my journey is caught up to today. I couldn’t find a review of Nyx that properly captured what I thought about the frame, her uses and faults. Perhaps because it’s my opinion, and I’m new. In the end I think we can all agree Nyx deserves another rework, but maybe we disagree on what needs reworking.

Perhaps what has been missing is positivity. A silver lining, or bronze I’m not picky. Even if Nyx only revives buffs I would be glad for her to move to bronze tier, and not struggle below the pack.

I will be the first to fully admit this review may be flawed, may be wrong or I may have just missed someone saying much the same. I have purposely excluded a ability augments or other high tier gear as it is both what I don’t have and not a good reflection of the frame, because anything can be good when you pump 300 forma into it and use a broken gun. And in my humble opinion, an augment shouldn’t be necessary for a frame to work. Yet still I am new, I am willing to learn, and I would hope anyone who deems a response to this understands where I come from, but also that I’m not as far ahead as they may be.

 

However you may take it, this is and always will be, just an opinion on what a new player sees wrong with Nyx.

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Psychic bolts effects stop affecting the previous targets when you recast it. If you’re able to strip armor off of everyone in the room in just a few casts sounds like something needs to be fixed.

Revenant is the one who makes the weird ghostly things (they’re called Thralls), despite such an ability making no sense being on him.

People have been calling for a (better) Nyx rework ever since early this year. Tho what did we expect when the person who designed her rework also designed Revenant XD.

outside of that. Yeah, you know what’s wrong with Nyx far more than other people I’ve met. So many people get caught up in niche uses for frame and immediately think that makes them good. When the reality is it just makes them nothing more than a gimmick.

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You absolutely hit the nail on the head, with 2 exceptions:

One's already been said, but I'll repeat:
Psychic Bolts has a target cap, dispels on recast, and (at least at min graphics settings) gives no indication of who's affected.

Like OG Wukong and his Defy godmode, "people" consider Nyx saved not by Absorb,  but by its augment Assimilate, which lets you move/shoot/cast while Absorb's active, but slows you to a walk.

But overall, as I said, you're exactly right.

Feel free to stop reading here. The rest is somewhat a rant because Nyx is one of my 3 favorite frames, and I can't justify using her seriously.

 

 

Even without looking at Damage 2.0 multipliers, enemy eHP scales much higher than enemy damage. As such, even with the ability to increase target damage, Mind Control (1) is almost only useful for yoinking helpful auras.
Psychic Bolts (2) is actually mechanically pretty good now vs. Grineer and Corpus, if it weren't target-capped, or were recastable for more coverage. (Chaos strips Infested auras, and slowing a random 6 when there are 20 onscreen is of limited utility.)
Chaos (3) is, as it basically always had been, her bread-and-butter - but is only reliable if you're farther from enemies than they are from each other. A singleton walks into the room from behind you, you're pretty much toast.
Absorb (4) is terrible.
I'd quote an [url=https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1100543-hey-guys-what-about-nyx-seriously/?do=findComment&comment=10821656]overview[/url] I found, but the thread's locked. Original source is here:


Absorb is a complete self-disable that grants you invulnerability at both a toggle cost and a cost proportional to the damage denied in a game with Health/Damage asymmetry see link below, which it then does in an area around you while applying a knockdown (ed: in the lowest base range of all abilities ingame).

  • As a Defensive ability, Absorb doesn't do anything to improve your situation.
    Betweeen being a self-disable and tying damage denied to a proportional energy cost against scaling enemy damage, it's purely a delaying tactic: Don't lose now. Instead lose all your energy, and then lose.

  • As an Offensive ability, against enemies with Health/Damage Asymmetry Warning: TVTropes, does very little to improve your situation.
    From a strictly paper-numbers perspective, you're gonna run out of energy long before you have any chance of killing the things attacking you in any semi-serious content, and that's before factoring armor, auras or Damage 2.0 multipliers in.

  • As a CC ability, does almost nothing to improve your situation.
    Absorb's exit-animation is slow (ed: and not affected by Natural Talent). Yes, you knock down anything in range (assuming it's not already running an animation, as per standard), but they'll be getting up about the same time you're freed of the animation lock.

Summary: Absorb has a negligible positive effect on your current situation while making your future situation strictly worse (let alone vs. just using Chaos).


If I had to take 30 seconds to improve Nyx (not rework or anything. Take her kit as-is and make it slightly better), I'd:
1) Make Mind Control permanent until dismissed.
2) Give Psychic Bolts the Garuda ult treatment: Apply to all targets in a cone, with the cone's width modified by range.
3) Can't think of anything quick-and-easy to do here, honestly.
4) Decide whether Absorb is:
a damage ability - in which case it's gonna need more than 10m base range (also, spoiler: It's not a damage ability, see above re- enemy eHP vs. enemy health. Thorns does not work at high levels in games with health/damage asymmetry if you're not giving the players (potentially, depending on the specific scaling) literal thousands of % returned),
a defensive ability - Get rid of the damage reflection, get rid of the damage buff, make Assimilate the base ability, and either remove the movement speed penalty (no parkour is fine), remove the damage-to-energy-drain, or make her immune to hostile auras (particularly Energy Leech and Arctic) while it's active.
or a CC ability - Get rid of the damage reflection, get rid of the damage buff, increase the base range from 10m to 20-25, make the exit animation faster, and ideally slow affected enemies for a duration equal to the time spent in Absorb.

Synergy can be added between her abilities, but that's beyond the scope of these 'minimum effort' changes.

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Thank you for writing this in-depth review as a newer player. I have always liked NYX and NYX Prime’s designs. She is like the counter part of Excalibur. I have also tried many times to master her and take her to super high level missions but something or somethings are missing in her. You address many points. Hopefully DE can give her a real work to make her abilities as strong as good as her design. If her abilities are reworked to be as good as Nova/Nova Prime, it will be great. 

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Mind Control

Spoiler


4 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

The first ability I had access too was the Mind Control and I loved it. Even fighting the content I have just reached on Sedna and Pluto, 30-40, I find it usefully useless. It is the first of Nyx’s CC of “Not Being Shot”. All CC involves not being shot, but Nyx’s abilities seems to be entirely based on the idea of who is shooting what, evident the first time I (accidentally) hit the 1 key. It reminded me of Skyrim immediately, the Frenzy spell. The ability to target a tough enemy unit and make him shoot his allies is incredibly powerful. Fighting in a tile set and suddenly a Nox shows up? One of those annoying engineer Corpus that spawn the shocky rolly ball things? The night wave assassins trying too hard? Hippidy hoppidy it’s now your property.

This ability, even when in parties of four is still useful. Suddenly not having a gunner or a nox shooting at your teammates or yourself is a benefit that can’t be ignored. Unfortunately that’s where the extent of the ability’s usefulness ends. The enemy can be shot for the first few seconds, and will take the damage back when the 1 is cancelled or ends, but why would you do that? You have the whole greener army breathing down your Tenno skoom neck! You have better things to do. Since it can’t be damaged by allies or enemies after those few seconds, it takes a bit of damage when the ability ends and goes right back to shooting you. The ability is useful, it is, but it would be more useful if the enemy you mind control could be damaged by you, your teammates, or everyone constantly, and the more damage it takes the more damage it does. Also, getting a Arson or Napalm is fun.

 

 

You kinda missed the mark on why you want to shoot the mind controlled target, the target dying if you deal enough damage is both a blessing but also a curse. Since sometimes you find a really nice target that you want to keep at least for a while and sadly it dies after the duration, but back on point. The reason you shoot the target is because; "For the next 4 seconds after activation, any damage Nyx inflicts to the mind controlled target is absorbed and converted to increase the target's damage output."

This can substantially increase the damage output of the target compared to equal targets, there is however still a issue. And that is enemies in Warframe have a disproportionate amount of Effective hit points compare to damage dealing capability's. This does somewhat make the damage a mind controlled target can do a bit redundant.

 

Absorb

Spoiler


4 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

Nyx’s 4 is useless.

Its a controversial opinion I know. I have heard many a respectable warframe player say her 4 is the only thing keeping her from being the next Wukong. I humbly disagree. It’s her 3 that keeps her from dying, simply because her chaos causes the enemy to damage each other. Her 4 is worse. I don’t even agree with the name. It’s not even absorbing anything but damage, and any other frame can do that and do it better. The damage buff afterwards is nice, but it doesn’t last long without primed mods (which I don’t have) or, I assume, high level enemies (which I can’t fight yet). Being invincible is OP, but being unable to move or shoot back just makes the ability a worse defy. It’s damage is negligible, it’s CC is nonexistent, it’s use is useless. In all my time using Nyx I haven’t had a situation where I had to use this ability where a splash of 2 or a tap of 3 hasn’t solved it for me.

 

 

Absorb is far from useless but it does have some issue no doubt, and i think one of the main reason you find it useless is because you have not used it together with the augment AssimilateAssimilate is a game changer for Absorb and the one bad thing i would say is that it is kind of a mandatory, there is probably someone who play her a lot more who could tell me i am wrong. But there is also another aspect you are missing and that is; "Nyx's threat level is raised while Absorb is active.". This is a uncommon thing for most tanking tools, although defy is one of the other tools that also have a raised threat level, yet you should compare entire kits instead of one tool versus another tool. What make Absorb good is for instance that Arcanes and mods that proc on damage taken still consider any hit that absorb ..... absorbs, as a hit. This is also uncommon for invulnerability, a perfect example would be that you can build up stacks of Adaptation to full while you are effectively immune to damage, and then regain energy with Rage or Hunter Adrenaline.

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2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Psychic bolts effects stop affecting the previous targets when you recast it. If you’re able to strip armor off of everyone in the room in just a few casts sounds like something needs to be fixed.

Revenant is the one who makes the weird ghostly things (they’re called Thralls), despite such an ability making no sense being on him.

People have been calling for a (better) Nyx rework ever since early this year. Tho what did we expect when the person who designed her rework also designed Revenant XD.

outside of that. Yeah, you know what’s wrong with Nyx far more than other people I’ve met. So many people get caught up in niche uses for frame and immediately think that makes them good. When the reality is it just makes them nothing more than a gimmick.

I made sure to test this in the Simalcrum when I was writing this review. I managed up to two groups of spawned enemies. Outside of that i’ve had limited testing simply because not enough targets are on screen, or they die too fast. 😕

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20 minutes ago, Chroia said:

You absolutely hit the nail on the head, with 2 exceptions:

One's already been said, but I'll repeat:
Psychic Bolts has a target cap, dispels on recast, and (at least at min graphics settings) gives no indication of who's affected.

Like OG Wukong and his Defy godmode, "people" consider Nyx saved not by Absorb,  but by its augment Assimilate, which lets you move/shoot/cast while Absorb's active, but slows you to a walk.

But overall, as I said, you're exactly right.

Feel free to stop reading here. The rest is somewhat a rant because Nyx is one of my 3 favorite frames, and I can't justify using her seriously.

 

 

Even without looking at Damage 2.0 multipliers, enemy eHP scales much higher than enemy damage. As such, even with the ability to increase target damage, Mind Control (1) is almost only useful for yoinking helpful auras.
Psychic Bolts (2) is actually mechanically pretty good now vs. Grineer and Corpus, if it weren't target-capped, or were recastable for more coverage. (Chaos strips Infested auras, and slowing a random 6 when there are 20 onscreen is of limited utility.)
Chaos (3) is, as it basically always had been, her bread-and-butter - but is only reliable if you're farther from enemies than they are from each other. A singleton walks into the room from behind you, you're pretty much toast.
Absorb (4) is terrible.
I'd quote an [url=https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1100543-hey-guys-what-about-nyx-seriously/?do=findComment&comment=10821656]overview[/url] I found, but the thread's locked. Original source is here:


Absorb is a complete self-disable that grants you invulnerability at both a toggle cost and a cost proportional to the damage denied in a game with Health/Damage asymmetry see link below, which it then does in an area around you while applying a knockdown (ed: in the lowest base range of all abilities ingame).

  • As a Defensive ability, Absorb doesn't do anything to improve your situation.
    Betweeen being a self-disable and tying damage denied to a proportional energy cost against scaling enemy damage, it's purely a delaying tactic: Don't lose now. Instead lose all your energy, and then lose.

  • As an Offensive ability, against enemies with Health/Damage Asymmetry Warning: TVTropes, does very little to improve your situation.
    From a strictly paper-numbers perspective, you're gonna run out of energy long before you have any chance of killing the things attacking you in any semi-serious content, and that's before factoring armor, auras or Damage 2.0 multipliers in.

  • As a CC ability, does almost nothing to improve your situation.
    Absorb's exit-animation is slow (ed: and not affected by Natural Talent). Yes, you knock down anything in range (assuming it's not already running an animation, as per standard), but they'll be getting up about the same time you're freed of the animation lock.

Summary: Absorb has a negligible positive effect on your current situation while making your future situation strictly worse (let alone vs. just using Chaos).


If I had to take 30 seconds to improve Nyx (not rework or anything. Take her kit as-is and make it slightly better), I'd:
1) Make Mind Control permanent until dismissed.
2) Give Psychic Bolts the Garuda ult treatment: Apply to all targets in a cone, with the cone's width modified by range.
3) Can't think of anything quick-and-easy to do here, honestly.
4) Decide whether Absorb is:
a damage ability - in which case it's gonna need more than 10m base range (also, spoiler: It's not a damage ability, see above re- enemy eHP vs. enemy health. Thorns does not work at high levels in games with health/damage asymmetry if you're not giving the players (potentially, depending on the specific scaling) literal thousands of % returned),
a defensive ability - Get rid of the damage reflection, get rid of the damage buff, make Assimilate the base ability, and either remove the movement speed penalty (no parkour is fine), remove the damage-to-energy-drain, or make her immune to hostile auras (particularly Energy Leech and Arctic) while it's active.
or a CC ability - Get rid of the damage reflection, get rid of the damage buff, increase the base range from 10m to 20-25, make the exit animation faster, and ideally slow affected enemies for a duration equal to the time spent in Absorb.

Synergy can be added between her abilities, but that's beyond the scope of these 'minimum effort' changes.

I’ll have you know I did have a read! XP

All information is important. I’ve managed to get two casts of the bolts working but perhaps it’s a simalcrum bug, as that’s where it was tested. There just aren’t enough (living) enemies to test it on in most maps where I run Nyx.

You basically hit absorb on the head though. Said it better than I could at least! It’s an ability I never get use out of unless I’m clearing Earth or something and get a phone call...

 

But on the same vein I am trying to keep it to a “New Player perspective” type thing. And most new players don’t have augments, rivens, this and that. Same with prime mods, he’ll most people don’t even use forma in the early game. Thus I decided to not count those in my review. At the same time, a frame shouldn’t NEED them to be good imo. 😛

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12 minutes ago, George_PPS said:

Thank you for writing this in-depth review as a newer player. I have always liked NYX and NYX Prime’s designs. She is like the counter part of Excalibur. I have also tried many times to master her and take her to super high level missions but something or somethings are missing in her. You address many points. Hopefully DE can give her a real work to make her abilities as strong as good as her design. If her abilities are reworked to be as good as Nova/Nova Prime, it will be great. 

You are very much welcome! I think the new-player experience is a little lacking in the forums and official reviews. Maybe i’ll do more of these?

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21 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Mind Control

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

You kinda missed the mark on why you want to shoot the mind controlled target, the target dying if you deal enough damage is both a blessing but also a curse. Since sometimes you find a really nice target that you want to keep at least for a while and sadly it dies after the duration, but back on point. The reason you shoot the target is because; "For the next 4 seconds after activation, any damage Nyx inflicts to the mind controlled target is absorbed and converted to increase the target's damage output."

This can substantially increase the damage output of the target compared to equal targets, there is however still a issue. And that is enemies in Warframe have a disproportionate amount of Effective hit points compare to damage dealing capability's. This does somewhat make the damage a mind controlled target can do a bit redundant.

 

Absorb

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Absorb is far from useless but it does have some issue no doubt, and i think one of the main reason you find it useless is because you have not used it together with the augment AssimilateAssimilate is a game changer for Absorb and the one bad thing i would say is that it is kind of a mandatory, there is probably someone who play her a lot more who could tell me i am wrong. But there is also another aspect you are missing and that is; "Nyx's threat level is raised while Absorb is active.". This is a uncommon thing for most tanking tools, although defy is one of the other tools that also have a raised threat level, yet you should compare entire kits instead of one tool versus another tool. What make Absorb good is for instance that Arcanes and mods that proc on damage taken still consider any hit that absorb ..... absorbs, as a hit. This is also uncommon for invulnerability, a perfect example would be that you can build up stacks of Adaptation to full while you are effectively immune to damage, and then regain energy with Rage or Hunter Adrenaline.

For the stuff about absorb I’ll refer you to my response to Chroia. I don't mean to be rude, I just don’t want to be redundant. 😕

However, I did feel your comments on Mind Control warranted address in a comment, soherewego.

Perhaps I could have explained it better in my initial opinions why I found Mind Control so problematic in Nyx’s kit, but I think Triburos said it best: NINJAS GO FAST.

I couldn’t actually find the video that contained that for this response so I had to paraphrase 😛

The main issue I have with Mind Control’s damage is the four seconds it takes to make it worthwhile. Why spend four seconds pumping shot after shot I to some shmuck when you can spend four more seconds burning your way through a tile set with an atmos in each hand laughing. If you recall to the way I described using Mind Control, it wasn’t as any sort of damage, but mainly as a distraction for bigger groups of enemies. Through games like BDO I have some experience in agro and enemy AI, and it was easy to recognize that’s mind control works as an agro pull due to enemies having more agro generation than warframes. The means to which Mind Control could be used as damage is simply stupid in a game about going fast. Even fighting what I consider trash mobs at this stage (level 20’s!) the damage mind control can do is negligible at best.

However, and I did think of this after-the-fact of reading your comment, but I find it relevant. Mind control is basically a one-target Limbo. The target basically does nothing unless it’s a Nox and you can’t do anything to it for the 40 seconds it’s active (I have duration on for Chaos). It’s like limbo rifting an enemy and just leaving him in it for a minute, it’s a good agro puller but that’s it.

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5 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

<had to short it out due to size. Click on v this v to see it>

Spoiler

You have probably read the title and have come to a few conclusions off the bat, I aim to dispel those as quickly as possible, or perhaps confirm a few others?

This is my opinion. I have been playing warframe consecutively for about 200 hours on PC, which is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. I have just completed The War Within, experienced the market for the first time and got the final part for Equinox Prime, discovered the joy of a 8 hour grind session on Helene, Saturn, stuck at MR8 because I can’t get past the MR9 test, and finally found my Raifu, the Corinth shotgun.

I. AM. A. NEW. PLAYER.

I do not have the endless experience most reviewers may have, or the knowledge of inner game mechanics I have yet to discover. Level 40 “trash mobs” are my challenge, and fighting eidolons looks like an impossible task. So why should you listen to me?

Well, because I am new. I have spent a large majority of my life (too large probably) beta-testing and supporting games. World of tanks/warships, war thunder, Black desert online, the like. Most of these games I have played since their alpha, six plus years ago. And I have found, perhaps unsurprisingly, that new players reviewing content often see things older players don’t. A ship is unbalanced, a character is weak, a gun is broken. It is, as always, up to you wether or not you agree, disagree, fart in your cereal, or join the conclave.

I just ask for a simple moment of time.

And thus this journey through Nyx begins, and all the faults she brings in her wake.

 

50 days into warframe I got my first 75% off for a platinum purchase. I was ecstatic, and spent it on 1000 of the rare resource as it was all the irl money I could spare. It was not to buy cosmetics or the equinox prime systems I got the day I write this review, it was for warframe slots and weapon slots.

Untill I saw a Nyx skin I couldn’t let go.

I bought it for my unplayed Nyx, and immediately started grinding the frame. I have always been a fan of mind control in games or other such things. I frequent the alteration and illusion schools in Skyrim every playthrough. Nyx is squishy, and that is no complaint. I don’t mind a squishy frame so long as it is good at not being hit in the first place. Strangely enough, this is what Nyx is good at. Nyx as a frame isn’t bad, she has a decent amount of health and shields and can mount the energy regain in her aura slot. What makes her bad is her abilities, which all exist in a stage of uselessness. Yes, even her four.

The first ability I had access too was the Mind Control and I loved it. Even fighting the content I have just reached on Sedna and Pluto, 30-40, I find it usefully useless. It is the first of Nyx’s CC of “Not Being Shot”. All CC involves not being shot, but Nyx’s abilities seems to be entirely based on the idea of who is shooting what, evident the first time I (accidentally) hit the 1 key. It reminded me of Skyrim immediately, the Frenzy spell. The ability to target a tough enemy unit and make him shoot his allies is incredibly powerful. Fighting in a tile set and suddenly a Nox shows up? One of those annoying engineer Corpus that spawn the shocky rolly ball things? The night wave assassins trying too hard? Hippidy hoppidy it’s now your property.

This ability, even when in parties of four is still useful. Suddenly not having a gunner or a nox shooting at your teammates or yourself is a benefit that can’t be ignored. Unfortunately that’s where the extent of the ability’s usefulness ends. The enemy can be shot for the first few seconds, and will take the damage back when the 1 is cancelled or ends, but why would you do that? You have the whole greener army breathing down your Tenno skoom neck! You have better things to do. Since it can’t be damaged by allies or enemies after those few seconds, it takes a bit of damage when the ability ends and goes right back to shooting you. The ability is useful, it is, but it would be more useful if the enemy you mind control could be damaged by you, your teammates, or everyone constantly, and the more damage it takes the more damage it does. Also, getting a Arson or Napalm is fun.

Nyx’s second ability, Psychic Bolts, at first seemed to me like a less-useful armor strip from when I played Mag. I was surprised to learn that the armour strip/ shield drain could be used in Infected to weaken them, or the fact it could be cast multiple times without dissipating the effect. Nyx’s bolts makes killing anything easy. Spam it a few times and watch everything die in combination with your 3. It appears to Nyx’s most useful ability, and perhaps a little underrated. Upon writing this I still struggle to find a situation where it isn’t useful, technically. The main issue is that it’s a set of five bolts at level 30, but you cannot target the main threats. Unlike mag where you just strip everything, Nyx has to cast this 25 energy ability several times, making it ridiculously expensive to archive the desired effect. The ability is usefully useless, and to be honest just feels weird in a Professor X frame.

The ability is the least useful in its class. Armour strip is all well and good but most frames do it to all enemies around them, not just five picked at random. It is a useful ability to strip armour but it is utterly useless in its implementation. Being unable to decide what loses it’s armour and when feels like a shot in the kneecap, you feel crippled by the energy drain needed to make the ability work. Even worse the ability still doesn’t do damage even though you are shoving a green rod in someone’s chest and ripping their armour or shields off.

Nyx’s third ability I unlocked feeling the weight of the frame on me. I was already seeing the writing on the wall for Nyx to become my favourite frame, but also one that has been left behind in the string of reworks. Her ability Chaos became a small beacon of hope for this frame I was beginning to like. As I stated before it was easy to see Nyx’s main form of CC was “not being shot”. This ability turned my enemies against each other in a splash of, well, chaos. I feared no longer the mobs of enemies with bombards and heavy gunners, a tap of the 3 key made me suddenly invisible to their eyes. In my humble opinion Nyx’s 3 is her most useful ability out of a set of bad abilities. A CC that doesn’t CC, but also one that does. If the enemies could simply shoot themselves in the heads instead of each other, it could easily be the ability everyone plays Nyx for.

Winston Churchill once said “the worst form of governance is democracy, except all the others” or something like that I can’t remember. Well, the worst of Nyx’s abilities is her 3, except all the others. As a CC frame Nyx can turn the battlefield against itself, an ability no others can. Nekros may have his thralls or Harrow his weird ghostly things (I think it’s harrow, I get him and Revenant confused a lot) but Nyx doesn’t need enemies to die for them to shoot at each other. In missions like defence, this I find is even more useful. However, like democracy, it’s not perfect. It’s just better than all the others in a sea of bad.

Nyx’s 4 is useless.

Its a controversial opinion I know. I have heard many a respectable warframe player say her 4 is the only thing keeping her from being the next Wukong. I humbly disagree. It’s her 3 that keeps her from dying, simply because her chaos causes the enemy to damage each other. Her 4 is worse. I don’t even agree with the name. It’s not even absorbing anything but damage, and any other frame can do that and do it better. The damage buff afterwards is nice, but it doesn’t last long without primed mods (which I don’t have) or, I assume, high level enemies (which I can’t fight yet). Being invincible is OP, but being unable to move or shoot back just makes the ability a worse defy. It’s damage is negligible, it’s CC is nonexistent, it’s use is useless. In all my time using Nyx I haven’t had a situation where I had to use this ability where a splash of 2 or a tap of 3 hasn’t solved it for me.

And thus I had access to all of Nyx, and found myself wanting. By the time she became 30 I had fallen in love with the frame, and would gladly call myself a “Nyx Main”. Nyx has strange and unseen CC, useless abilities and subtlety useful ones. She is a frame I enjoy but even as a new player who truly did believe there was no such thing as bad gear (until I used the kraken) I could see the faults in Nyx.

 

I feel like all this has been missing something. A segment I can’t identify or a bit of opinion left. Nyx is the first frame I spent real money on fashion-frame yet her ability set, what warframes rely on, is just bad. Nyx is a bad frame but she’s not Old Wukong bad. Her abilities have some use, they just don’t fit in the meta. She’s like a vauban with different CC, and I’m surprised I don’t see more people calling for a Nyx rework. Personally I have no idea how to do such a thing, I just think having mind control enemies be able to be shot while their damage ramps up the more damage they take, or having chaos enemies commit suicide would just be useful or cool. I haven’t used any of Nyx’s augments, or any primed reaches or flows or any such. The Nyx I have is the Nyx most people will see, and she isn’t that good. She’s usefully useless.

And now my opinion piece ends, my journey is caught up to today. I couldn’t find a review of Nyx that properly captured what I thought about the frame, her uses and faults. Perhaps because it’s my opinion, and I’m new. In the end I think we can all agree Nyx deserves another rework, but maybe we disagree on what needs reworking.

Perhaps what has been missing is positivity. A silver lining, or bronze I’m not picky. Even if Nyx only revives buffs I would be glad for her to move to bronze tier, and not struggle below the pack.

I will be the first to fully admit this review may be flawed, may be wrong or I may have just missed someone saying much the same. I have purposely excluded a ability augments or other high tier gear as it is both what I don’t have and not a good reflection of the frame, because anything can be good when you pump 300 forma into it and use a broken gun. And in my humble opinion, an augment shouldn’t be necessary for a frame to work. Yet still I am new, I am willing to learn, and I would hope anyone who deems a response to this understands where I come from, but also that I’m not as far ahead as they may be.

 

However you may take it, this is and always will be, just an opinion on what a new player sees wrong with Nyx.

 

Thanks for your input about Nyx.

 

... Now I'm going to leave the bashing to everyone else, and I'm going to eat lots of popcorn while they're at it... 😛

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Lol this guy gets it, you sure youre new? XD

Mind Control: Good to get stuff outta your face. Bursas are nice little doggie friends. Damaging them to boost their damage is a thing but its kinda clunky. Some sorta channel would have been better

Psychic bolts: Used to be a mini chaos sorta but they changed it to this because corrosive projection is meta, so yes feels out of place

Chaos : How dare you insult Chaos, repent now >:V

Absorb-Assimilate : Woa im invulnerable! Everyone fixates on this and wants it to be a nuke because CC is dead

Seems you didnt notice the passive and who could blame you. This used to be a powerful disarm but people cried because it was bad for the dps of mind controlled targets (lolololololololasfjhfashfsdkfhs) so now its a useless "chance to miss" for the enemies.

Anyways have fun. Despite the rebotch Nyx is still a pretty unique, fun frame 🙂

 

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1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

Thanks for your input about Nyx.

 

... Now I'm going to leave the bashing to everyone else, and I'm going to eat lots of popcorn while they're at it... 😛

Lol don’t eat it all before the movie begins, I haven’t been bashed hard enough yet!

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54 minutes ago, Howtoshootgun said:

Lol this guy gets it, you sure youre new? XD

Mind Control: Good to get stuff outta your face. Bursas are nice little doggie friends. Damaging them to boost their damage is a thing but its kinda clunky. Some sorta channel would have been better

Psychic bolts: Used to be a mini chaos sorta but they changed it to this because corrosive projection is meta, so yes feels out of place

Chaos : How dare you insult Chaos, repent now >:V

Absorb-Assimilate : Woa im invulnerable! Everyone fixates on this and wants it to be a nuke because CC is dead

Seems you didnt notice the passive and who could blame you. This used to be a powerful disarm but people cried because it was bad for the dps of mind controlled targets (lolololololololasfjhfashfsdkfhs) so now its a useless "chance to miss" for the enemies.

Anyways have fun. Despite the rebotch Nyx is still a pretty unique, fun frame 🙂

 

I didn’t miss Nyx’s passive, I just can’t ever notice it! She already dies so easily!

 

However I don’t disagree with the Nyx passive. If it was, say, 50% to 75% and she didn’t have absorb, it would be pretty good.

 

And yes I’m sure I’m new, I’m just experienced in game testing and reviews.

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A solid review and understanding. You definitely hit on a lot of her problem areas. The thing I find most amusing is how much people love Psychic Bolts. It's technically functional and can support a wide variety of weapons. However, I find this ability becomes less useful the more the player and their arsenal matures. With proper modding, this becomes a totally wasted skill slot. Sure, it's useful, but I'll take the old version any day of the week. With Absorb being a hot mess, she's basically down 2/4 skills without augments. That's my opinion though.

Also,

4 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

I didn’t miss Nyx’s passive, I just can’t ever notice it! She already dies so easily!

 

However I don’t disagree with the Nyx passive. If it was, say, 50% to 75% and she didn’t have absorb, it would be pretty good.

 

And yes I’m sure I’m new, I’m just experienced in game testing and reviews.

I disagree that upping the chances for the enemies to miss Nyx will make it any better. She is very squishy and any shots at a decent level will still melt Nyx completely. It could be 99% but it's still a 1% chance to die at rather high levels. You'll never notice it at low levels since nothing can kill you. But in high levels you can still get dropped pretty fast. It only takes 1.

Howtoshootgun is absolutely correct at the old passive being powerful. Enemy accuracy goes to 0% if they don't have a gun. That also affected your party but I guess no one cared about that.

I'll forever champion she's worse now than she was before. After all, she's my favorite frame I don't play anymore. 🙂

Again, good assessment.

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Her 1 is a nice gimmick and makes her marginally more useful in team play and gives her a nice distraction in solo play but it's hardly required. Nyx 1 is comparable to Saryn 2 for their respective gameplay.

Nyx 2 is minorly useful and there's really no good way to mod for it at the endgame unless you intend to dump 3/4.

Nyx 3 is what gives her decent solo niche spaces. It's not perfect but it allows her to solo a few things that very few other frames can.

Nyx 4 is where it's at. You NEED her augment. Without her augment Nyx is practically useless and you shouldn't play her unless you intend to just solo interceptions or you just really like her as there are much better frames out there for doing practically anything else. With her augment and properly kitted up Nyx becomes literally unstoppable. One of the easiest frames to play and one of the easiest times I ever had getting to level 500+ orokin faction enemies.

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22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

You have probably read the title and have come to a few conclusions off the bat, I aim to dispel those as quickly as possible, or perhaps confirm a few others?

This is my opinion. I have been playing warframe consecutively for about 200 hours on PC, which is NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. I have just completed The War Within, experienced the market for the first time and got the final part for Equinox Prime, discovered the joy of a 8 hour grind session on Helene, Saturn, stuck at MR8 because I can’t get past the MR9 test, and finally found my Raifu, the Corinth shotgun.

I. AM. A. NEW. PLAYER.

I do not have the endless experience most reviewers may have, or the knowledge of inner game mechanics I have yet to discover. Level 40 “trash mobs” are my challenge, and fighting eidolons looks like an impossible task. So why should you listen to me?

Well, because I am new. I have spent a large majority of my life (too large probably) beta-testing and supporting games. World of tanks/warships, war thunder, Black desert online, the like. Most of these games I have played since their alpha, six plus years ago. And I have found, perhaps unsurprisingly, that new players reviewing content often see things older players don’t. A ship is unbalanced, a character is weak, a gun is broken. It is, as always, up to you wether or not you agree, disagree, fart in your cereal, or join the conclave.

I just ask for a simple moment of time.

And thus this journey through Nyx begins, and all the faults she brings in her wake.

Nothing really to argue against here.  Just using this part to say that it's always very refreshing to see new players put this level of effort into something.  Not just warframe but gaming in general.  Makes me smile.

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

 

50 days into warframe I got my first 75% off for a platinum purchase. I was ecstatic, and spent it on 1000 of the rare resource as it was all the irl money I could spare. It was not to buy cosmetics or the equinox prime systems I got the day I write this review, it was for warframe slots and weapon slots.

Untill I saw a Nyx skin I couldn’t let go.

I bought it for my unplayed Nyx, and immediately started grinding the frame. I have always been a fan of mind control in games or other such things. I frequent the alteration and illusion schools in Skyrim every playthrough. Nyx is squishy, and that is no complaint. I don’t mind a squishy frame so long as it is good at not being hit in the first place. Strangely enough, this is what Nyx is good at. Nyx as a frame isn’t bad, she has a decent amount of health and shields and can mount the energy regain in her aura slot. What makes her bad is her abilities, which all exist in a stage of uselessness. Yes, even her four.

What skin did you get for Nyx?  Unless i'm misunderstanding this part.

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

The first ability I had access too was the Mind Control and I loved it. Even fighting the content I have just reached on Sedna and Pluto, 30-40, I find it usefully useless. It is the first of Nyx’s CC of “Not Being Shot”. All CC involves not being shot, but Nyx’s abilities seems to be entirely based on the idea of who is shooting what, evident the first time I (accidentally) hit the 1 key. It reminded me of Skyrim immediately, the Frenzy spell. The ability to target a tough enemy unit and make him shoot his allies is incredibly powerful. Fighting in a tile set and suddenly a Nox shows up? One of those annoying engineer Corpus that spawn the shocky rolly ball things? The night wave assassins trying too hard? Hippidy hoppidy it’s now your property.

This ability, even when in parties of four is still useful. Suddenly not having a gunner or a nox shooting at your teammates or yourself is a benefit that can’t be ignored. Unfortunately that’s where the extent of the ability’s usefulness ends. The enemy can be shot for the first few seconds, and will take the damage back when the 1 is cancelled or ends, but why would you do that? You have the whole greener army breathing down your Tenno skoom neck! You have better things to do. Since it can’t be damaged by allies or enemies after those few seconds, it takes a bit of damage when the ability ends and goes right back to shooting you. The ability is useful, it is, but it would be more useful if the enemy you mind control could be damaged by you, your teammates, or everyone constantly, and the more damage it takes the more damage it does. Also, getting a Arson or Napalm is fun.

It's deffinitely an interesting complaint.  But not particularly one I share.  The ability is at odds with itself.  It's got the utility of making Key targets being beneficial for your allies.  But it also wants to be an effective DD.  Hence both this added period of time to shoot at it and it's augment.  The problem here is that the AI is particularly bad as is most of WF's AI.  Some units will literally just stand around or sit in cover.  This could be "bandaided" by allowing nyx to target enemies somehow for her MC'ed target.  Or they could just give it extra damage against chaosed units.  Ideally DE would write special code for MCed targets that makes it more aggressive and smart.  But seeing as how DE pretty much avoids doing anything AI related I doubt that will happen.  My personal issue with the ability is purely upkeep.  It's annoying that I have to continually MC a target.

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

Nyx’s second ability, Psychic Bolts, at first seemed to me like a less-useful armor strip from when I played Mag. I was surprised to learn that the armour strip/ shield drain could be used in Infected to weaken them, or the fact it could be cast multiple times without dissipating the effect. Nyx’s bolts makes killing anything easy. Spam it a few times and watch everything die in combination with your 3. It appears to Nyx’s most useful ability, and perhaps a little underrated. Upon writing this I still struggle to find a situation where it isn’t useful, technically. The main issue is that it’s a set of five bolts at level 30, but you cannot target the main threats. Unlike mag where you just strip everything, Nyx has to cast this 25 energy ability several times, making it ridiculously expensive to archive the desired effect. The ability is usefully useless, and to be honest just feels weird in a Professor X frame.

The ability is the least useful in its class. Armour strip is all well and good but most frames do it to all enemies around them, not just five picked at random. It is a useful ability to strip armour but it is utterly useless in its implementation. Being unable to decide what loses it’s armour and when feels like a shot in the kneecap, you feel crippled by the energy drain needed to make the ability work. Even worse the ability still doesn’t do damage even though you are shoving a green rod in someone’s chest and ripping their armour or shields off.

The thing that set's Bolts apart from other debuffs is that it's an "all in one" debuff.  It removes shields, armor, shuts off auras, and slows down the infested.  It's effect is good.  The problem of it is that this can only apply to 5 targets at a time.  Once you recast it removes the debuffs on said targets and applies it to 5 other targets.  Then there's the problem that you can't control who it targets.  Pre "rework" the ability was considered godly because you could make a build that would make these things cheap to cast.  And pair it's augment with the passive.  meaning every bolt you sent out had a chance to disarm and whoever was hit by a bolt was momentarally stunned.  Personally I prefer the utility we have now because I don't enjoy having to spam a power to make it useful.  But it's pretty held back.  

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

Nyx’s third ability I unlocked feeling the weight of the frame on me. I was already seeing the writing on the wall for Nyx to become my favourite frame, but also one that has been left behind in the string of reworks. Her ability Chaos became a small beacon of hope for this frame I was beginning to like. As I stated before it was easy to see Nyx’s main form of CC was “not being shot”. This ability turned my enemies against each other in a splash of, well, chaos. I feared no longer the mobs of enemies with bombards and heavy gunners, a tap of the 3 key made me suddenly invisible to their eyes. In my humble opinion Nyx’s 3 is her most useful ability out of a set of bad abilities. A CC that doesn’t CC, but also one that does. If the enemies could simply shoot themselves in the heads instead of each other, it could easily be the ability everyone plays Nyx for.

Winston Churchill once said “the worst form of governance is democracy, except all the others” or something like that I can’t remember. Well, the worst of Nyx’s abilities is her 3, except all the others. As a CC frame Nyx can turn the battlefield against itself, an ability no others can. Nekros may have his thralls or Harrow his weird ghostly things (I think it’s harrow, I get him and Revenant confused a lot) but Nyx doesn’t need enemies to die for them to shoot at each other. In missions like defence, this I find is even more useful. However, like democracy, it’s not perfect. It’s just better than all the others in a sea of bad.

Chaos is Nyx's bread and butter.  You used to be able to have multiple instances of chaos allowing you to soft cc multiple rooms.  Now it's only one instance.  But because enemies are stunned on reapplying the ability you can "spam"  chaos if you need to quick hard lock an area for whatever reason.  I've never personally been bothered by enemies not being able to kill each other.  But we could easily add in a modifier where chaos enemies take more damage from other chaosed enemies.  The main benefit and unfortunately what got lost from her rework was how chaos played with melee units.  You see enemy aggro is roughly based on distance.  Melee enemies being on top of an enemy meant the focus was usually entirely on them.  As mentioned before Nyx used to be able to disarm enemies.  Meaning you could technically create pockets of safety where Nyx likely wouldn't be targeted.  I have no issues with chaos as it's always been a very useful ability.

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

Nyx’s 4 is useless.

Its a controversial opinion I know. I have heard many a respectable warframe player say her 4 is the only thing keeping her from being the next Wukong. I humbly disagree. It’s her 3 that keeps her from dying, simply because her chaos causes the enemy to damage each other. Her 4 is worse. I don’t even agree with the name. It’s not even absorbing anything but damage, and any other frame can do that and do it better. The damage buff afterwards is nice, but it doesn’t last long without primed mods (which I don’t have) or, I assume, high level enemies (which I can’t fight yet). Being invincible is OP, but being unable to move or shoot back just makes the ability a worse defy. It’s damage is negligible, it’s CC is nonexistent, it’s use is useless. In all my time using Nyx I haven’t had a situation where I had to use this ability where a splash of 2 or a tap of 3 hasn’t solved it for me.

And thus I had access to all of Nyx, and found myself wanting. By the time she became 30 I had fallen in love with the frame, and would gladly call myself a “Nyx Main”. Nyx has strange and unseen CC, useless abilities and subtlety useful ones. She is a frame I enjoy but even as a new player who truly did believe there was no such thing as bad gear (until I used the kraken) I could see the faults in Nyx.

It's not controversial at least from my experience.  It's her "iconic" ability.  But it's never had much use beyond panic protecting an objective when the first line of defense goes down.  Or a panic save yourself/ally while either someone is revived under you or the enemy threat is taken care of.  DE has desperately tried to turn the ability into her direct offensive ability but it's not worked out nor is it really something I see other Nyx enthusiasts clammering for.

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

 

I feel like all this has been missing something. A segment I can’t identify or a bit of opinion left. Nyx is the first frame I spent real money on fashion-frame yet her ability set, what warframes rely on, is just bad. Nyx is a bad frame but she’s not Old Wukong bad. Her abilities have some use, they just don’t fit in the meta. She’s like a vauban with different CC, and I’m surprised I don’t see more people calling for a Nyx rework. Personally I have no idea how to do such a thing, I just think having mind control enemies be able to be shot while their damage ramps up the more damage they take, or having chaos enemies commit suicide would just be useful or cool. I haven’t used any of Nyx’s augments, or any primed reaches or flows or any such. The Nyx I have is the Nyx most people will see, and she isn’t that good. She’s usefully useless.

I would disagree with other hardcore nyx players when I say I find this new nyx to be perfectly decent.  As the common notion is she's worse off than before.  I Believe she's just different.  However I still think she needs a lot of help.  there's a lot they could do with her theme.  

22 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

And now my opinion piece ends, my journey is caught up to today. I couldn’t find a review of Nyx that properly captured what I thought about the frame, her uses and faults. Perhaps because it’s my opinion, and I’m new. In the end I think we can all agree Nyx deserves another rework, but maybe we disagree on what needs reworking.

Perhaps what has been missing is positivity. A silver lining, or bronze I’m not picky. Even if Nyx only revives buffs I would be glad for her to move to bronze tier, and not struggle below the pack.

I will be the first to fully admit this review may be flawed, may be wrong or I may have just missed someone saying much the same. I have purposely excluded a ability augments or other high tier gear as it is both what I don’t have and not a good reflection of the frame, because anything can be good when you pump 300 forma into it and use a broken gun. And in my humble opinion, an augment shouldn’t be necessary for a frame to work. Yet still I am new, I am willing to learn, and I would hope anyone who deems a response to this understands where I come from, but also that I’m not as far ahead as they may be.

 

However you may take it, this is and always will be, just an opinion on what a new player sees wrong with Nyx.

The only thing that I find off about your assessment is you seem to want to up her killing potential.  That certainly would fit her in the meta because as the saying goes "death is the best kind of cc" but personally that's not the route i'd take her.  I'd rather they stick to her indirect methods of effecting her, allies, and the enemies.  Her style of play whilst being heavily cc based is actually much more in the utility camp.  The only other frame imo that works close to this style is loki.  We in general do not have very utility based frames and it's a style of play I wish was more present.

I myself have put up more than one thread up of messing with Nyx.

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11 hours ago, uAir said:

Her 1 is a nice gimmick and makes her marginally more useful in team play and gives her a nice distraction in solo play but it's hardly required. Nyx 1 is comparable to Saryn 2 for their respective gameplay.

Nyx 2 is minorly useful and there's really no good way to mod for it at the endgame unless you intend to dump 3/4.

Nyx 3 is what gives her decent solo niche spaces. It's not perfect but it allows her to solo a few things that very few other frames can.

Nyx 4 is where it's at. You NEED her augment. Without her augment Nyx is practically useless and you shouldn't play her unless you intend to just solo interceptions or you just really like her as there are much better frames out there for doing practically anything else. With her augment and properly kitted up Nyx becomes literally unstoppable. One of the easiest frames to play and one of the easiest times I ever had getting to level 500+ orokin faction enemies.

I do agree with the rest, but it seems I'm going to have to reiterate myself... I don't have her augment, and a frame shouldn't exist in a state where its augment is needed to make an ability work. Thats why its an augment, its ment to change or improve the ability in a different way. Its not supposed to take it from useless to good, thats terrible game design.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Nothing really to argue against here.  Just using this part to say that it's always very refreshing to see new players put this level of effort into something.  Not just warframe but gaming in general.  Makes me smile.

What skin did you get for Nyx?  Unless i'm misunderstanding this part.

It's deffinitely an interesting complaint.  But not particularly one I share.  The ability is at odds with itself.  It's got the utility of making Key targets being beneficial for your allies.  But it also wants to be an effective DD.  Hence both this added period of time to shoot at it and it's augment.  The problem here is that the AI is particularly bad as is most of WF's AI.  Some units will literally just stand around or sit in cover.  This could be "bandaided" by allowing nyx to target enemies somehow for her MC'ed target.  Or they could just give it extra damage against chaosed units.  Ideally DE would write special code for MCed targets that makes it more aggressive and smart.  But seeing as how DE pretty much avoids doing anything AI related I doubt that will happen.  My personal issue with the ability is purely upkeep.  It's annoying that I have to continually MC a target.

The thing that set's Bolts apart from other debuffs is that it's an "all in one" debuff.  It removes shields, armor, shuts off auras, and slows down the infested.  It's effect is good.  The problem of it is that this can only apply to 5 targets at a time.  Once you recast it removes the debuffs on said targets and applies it to 5 other targets.  Then there's the problem that you can't control who it targets.  Pre "rework" the ability was considered godly because you could make a build that would make these things cheap to cast.  And pair it's augment with the passive.  meaning every bolt you sent out had a chance to disarm and whoever was hit by a bolt was momentarally stunned.  Personally I prefer the utility we have now because I don't enjoy having to spam a power to make it useful.  But it's pretty held back.  

Chaos is Nyx's bread and butter.  You used to be able to have multiple instances of chaos allowing you to soft cc multiple rooms.  Now it's only one instance.  But because enemies are stunned on reapplying the ability you can "spam"  chaos if you need to quick hard lock an area for whatever reason.  I've never personally been bothered by enemies not being able to kill each other.  But we could easily add in a modifier where chaos enemies take more damage from other chaosed enemies.  The main benefit and unfortunately what got lost from her rework was how chaos played with melee units.  You see enemy aggro is roughly based on distance.  Melee enemies being on top of an enemy meant the focus was usually entirely on them.  As mentioned before Nyx used to be able to disarm enemies.  Meaning you could technically create pockets of safety where Nyx likely wouldn't be targeted.  I have no issues with chaos as it's always been a very useful ability.

It's not controversial at least from my experience.  It's her "iconic" ability.  But it's never had much use beyond panic protecting an objective when the first line of defense goes down.  Or a panic save yourself/ally while either someone is revived under you or the enemy threat is taken care of.  DE has desperately tried to turn the ability into her direct offensive ability but it's not worked out nor is it really something I see other Nyx enthusiasts clammering for.

I would disagree with other hardcore nyx players when I say I find this new nyx to be perfectly decent.  As the common notion is she's worse off than before.  I Believe she's just different.  However I still think she needs a lot of help.  there's a lot they could do with her theme.  

The only thing that I find off about your assessment is you seem to want to up her killing potential.  That certainly would fit her in the meta because as the saying goes "death is the best kind of cc" but personally that's not the route i'd take her.  I'd rather they stick to her indirect methods of effecting her, allies, and the enemies.  Her style of play whilst being heavily cc based is actually much more in the utility camp.  The only other frame imo that works close to this style is loki.  We in general do not have very utility based frames and it's a style of play I wish was more present.

I myself have put up more than one thread up of messing with Nyx.

Pasithea skin!

I don't know what to say to everything else, but thank you for your insights!

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1 hour ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

Pasithea skin!

I don't know what to say to everything else, but thank you for your insights!

I love that skin.  I have a very castleveinia color scheme going on it atm.  And that's alright.

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On 2019-09-14 at 1:10 PM, The_Pegasus_Box said:

Nyx’s 4 is useless.

Its a controversial opinion I know. I have heard many a respectable warframe player say her 4 is the only thing keeping her from being the next Wukong. I humbly disagree. It’s her 3 that keeps her from dying, simply because her chaos causes the enemy to damage each other.

 

I'm surprised you didn't notice one of her many bugs being a beta / alpha tester. She has quite a few and no they're not going to get fixed. She's had them for years and even got some new ones with her recent rework. At any rate this statement used to be true when Nyx's CC was a lot more reliable. It's no longer.

There's a very long history to Nyx. Even just Chaos.

First would be the threat from Chaos affected enemies was lowered long ago making you have to play the distance game more carefully or you'll get shot. Then there was non-overlapping Chaos which caused multiple rotations of the effect making you keep track of different timers or suddenly find yourself too close to an enemy that's no longer interested in others Bolt was very useful for mitigating this. Chaos was changed with her rework however as they now refresh the duration at the expense of a short window in which enemies can shoot you between casts and she now lacks the Radiation proc of her old Psychic Bolts to help distract enemies during this window. Oh and she can only have one active instance at a time when previously she was not limited to one radial section around herself and could CC multiple rooms over great distance if she wanted.

They also removed her ability to disarm enemies with Psychic Bolts which made the distance game far more easy and eliminated her biggest threat which is cross-fire and AoE damage. This is the majority reason why your statement simply isn't true any longer. It was at one point. I never used Assimilate and pushed her to wave 80 Defense Solo. That's lvl 370 for counting. Never got hit unless you screwed up but now with no Rad proc, no disarm and other issues; Assimilate is just about required and I hate it.

I won't get into the other stuff because I'll end up writing a book but I have over 900 in-mission hours with Nyx and I no longer play her. If you want a good comparison of Nyx's ability to protect herself now then try her in Plains and attempt to never get shot. It wont' happen. Soon as you have Grineer far in the distance they'll shoot her when previously Bolts was a 60m CC that took care of such situations and Chaos lingered through multiple casts to insure nothing followed you as you run.

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4 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

I don't have her augment, and a frame shouldn't exist in a state where its augment is needed to make an ability work.

This is where being a new player is going to hinder you, as you go on and play more you'll see  majority of frames effectiveness locked behind an augment.

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5 hours ago, The_Pegasus_Box said:

I do agree with the rest, but it seems I'm going to have to reiterate myself... I don't have her augment, and a frame shouldn't exist in a state where its augment is needed to make an ability work. Thats why its an augment, its ment to change or improve the ability in a different way. Its not supposed to take it from useless to good, thats terrible game design.

Just because you're unable to do something with a frame or lack of the resources to do something with a frame does not invalidate that frame's capabilities.

Imagine a new player who just bought Loki and then they come here to this forum and post that Loki is completely useless. Just want to state and ensure everyone knows that they have only 1 hour of playtime and just bought Loki and Loki is only rank 1. But all they can do is run and shoot with really weak weapons and Loki's 1 is useless because it doesn't do any damage. And his 2 and 3 and 4 are all just literally useless.

Loki sucks. Just FYI, 1 hour of playtime only, no mods outside of like, 7 flawed mods.

How valid would you consider their points are to Loki's overall gameplay and influence on the game?

=========

I have about 1400 hours in the game. I'm MR 27. Your overview of Nyx is just utterly wrong and it's painful that so many others are in here agreeing with you.

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