CHANGE MY MIND: Cephalon Samodeus And Combined Forces of Cetus & Fortuna Surpass The Orokin Empire At Its Peak And Can Solo The Sentients Easily!

[Drachnyn]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb sly1171:

The reason the Sentients were so deadly for the Orokin was because the Orokin were more advanced and the Sentients were able to turn their technology against them. It is precisely because the Ostrons and Solaris are low-tech that they are better able to fight and kill the Sentients. The Sentients have no advantage since they can't turn their tech against them.

The Orokin already realized that their super tech was useless against the sentients but instead of fighting with conventional weapons themselves they sent in other to do it for them. Before the tenno they sent in Dax soldiers as we know from the sacrifice quest.

[Burritochu]

Unless the Ostrons and Solaris can some how create more Sentient slayers like the Paracesis, I highly doubt they'd be able to take them on in any serious conflict. Sure Zaws and Kitguns are OP in game play but where it would actually matter (in-universe) they wouldn't fare too well.

[VotumPrime]

5 minutes ago, Burritochu said:

Unless the Ostrons and Solaris can some how create more Sentient slayers like the Paracesis, I highly doubt they'd be able to take them on in any serious conflict. Sure Zaws and Kitguns are OP in game play but where it would actually matter (in-universe) they wouldn't fare too well.

[Burritochu]

10 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

I'm quite sure. The Sentients only true weakness is Void energy. Neither the Ostrons' Zaws or Solaris' Kitguns incorporate that damage type so they'll just adapt to those weapons and Tau-laser-disco-ball their way to victory.

[VotumPrime]

25 minutes ago, Burritochu said:

I'm quite sure. The Sentients only true weakness is Void energy. Neither the Ostrons' Zaws or Solaris' Kitguns incorporate that damage type so they'll just adapt to those weapons and Tau-laser-disco-ball their way to victory.

Magus Lockdown?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 hours ago, VotumPrime said:

Well if it weren't for the fact that we just can't die, they might have risked their own lives, but the fact that the most effective weapons and things in the game right now isn't Prime weapons but Zaws and Kitguns held together with spit and duct tape can only mean that if they are given time, they would become something that surpasses the Orokin Empire and they wouldn't really need our help.

Bad news buddy. The most effective weapons in the game are us. 

[RX-3DR]

Gameplay does not translate to story. This is like saying that Fortuna has an unlimited number of people with how often we find dead scouting parties during bounties.

Within the story, kitguns are likely no better than standard Corpus weaponry, Zaws worse than Grineer blades. Possibly even less reliable considering its somewhat scrapped together. But for gameplay reasons, releasing a a new modular system for underwhelming weapons is a waste and adding a jamming mechanic to them would also make them quite unsatisfying to use.

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

another example is from another game MHW. Hunts with monsters can take the whole day or days to finish but for gamers it is a 50 min limit usually. That time example also applies in this game cause of the day/night cycle on earth and the warm/cold on orb vallis. So like others have said Gameplay =/= Lore.

[Olphalarepth]

Are you guys really taking the bait? By the void....

[VotumPrime]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Dex Xean said:

another example is from another game MHW. Hunts with monsters can take the whole day or days to finish but for gamers it is a 50 min limit usually. That time example also applies in this game cause of the day/night cycle on earth and the warm/cold on orb vallis. So like others have said Gameplay =/= Lore.

Ah good call.

[0_The_F00l]

5 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Thats just as plausible as me actually being a monkey.

Not sure how to take that statement, 

 

Jokes aside for OP. 

We are looking at individual objects and weapons for comparison - not sure it is a valid. 

A bomb with tons of TNT is stronger than an assault rifle for pure damage. But you can't carry a ton of TNT around. Nor can you use it reasonably  with selective effect like an assault rifle. 

In this instance we the tenno are nuclear Reactors /bombs , that can also carry an assault rifle. We can have wanton destruction, but can also be focused. 

All the items that you mentioned are powerful because they are powered by the void. They would be a lot less effective in the hands of anyone else. 

I firmly believe the mods are just ways for the void energy to be transferred for various effects, it's not the weapon that gets powerful its our ability to manipulate the void to suit the weapon. Hence the affinity and the capacity. 

[DeMonkey]

25 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Not sure how to take that statement,

The world may never know.

[Melkfet]

Samodeus, of which we don't know much besides creating rivens and mods, Cetus and Fortuna combined has no military threat besides the development of some technology.

That technology has to be implemented and applied. This is where us, the tenno, with our warframes, come and apply that technology.

They alone cannot do anything beside a losing guerilla war. Neither the Orokin nor the Sentients will have any troible bringing them down.

As the New War will begin, we the tenno, will be asked to help defend. Because we are the only military force in the Origin System that are capable to deal with such threats.

Comparing Magus Lockdown with Orokin tech is really superficial. Orokin have developed the sentients, warframes, immortality, the infestation.

 

 

[Gryban]

Just my 2 cent, but Zaws and Kitguns can't put a dent in an Eidolon's shield. So all Cetus and Fortuna's troops could achieve in a fight against a Sentinel is making it laugh.

They might have Amps, but without Tenno Void power those are not usable by them

Edited September 16, 2019 by Gryban

[Aldain]

If anyone ever starts a sentence with "Change my Mind" they don't want their mind changed, they just want to stir the pot of questionable contents.

[HugintheCrow]

6 hours ago, Melkfet said:

Comparing Magus Lockdown with Orokin tech is really superficial. Orokin have developed the sentients, warframes, immortality, the infestation.

Not to mention that all Arcanes are most probably salvaged Orokin tech anyway.

[CephalonDizzy]

WTS Konzu Riven + utz + swazdoolah / - time until lunch

 

Also there's that story where just ONE sentient threaten cetus so much gara had to sacrifice herself to kill it, and that's how Eidolons were made.

And also that story where just ONE flying sentient thing that kept the entire Corpus on Jupiter in line, who in turn on multiple occasions crushed Fortuna rebellions.

Edited September 16, 2019 by CephalonDizzy

[-Krism-]

14 hours ago, VotumPrime said:

You mean you're not a monkey?

Ignoring the question because you don't have any arguments?

[Umquaptovis]

Now some loreist correct me if I got this wrong. From what I remember the sentient have a form of arcane oro, that makes them functionally immortal. (Only oro can consume oro) none of the current factions have an oro so while they could beat a sentient or remove it's adaptation they can not kill one. And while yes the tower and gara did blow one up it's still moving around. So the only group that can kill an actual sentient not it's fragments  but an actual one, are the teno as they too have an oro. Making it a double edge we can kill them but they can kill us. ( hidden messages quest).

That said if they did implement a mechanic from lore then having space grandpa, grandma, uncle, or mom being able to put us down and out in a fight with no other option but to reload and try again would be interesting.

[(NSW)Austee]

14 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

It's not me. You just can't get things through your thick skull. There is a reason nearly noone responds to your spam threads, you know.

You come up with a headcanon and then defend it as if it was gonna kill you if you realize you were mistaken.

LMAO. 

[DrakeWurrum]

Nope. Lore-wise, even us Tenno cannot handle Sentients, at least not alone. Gara got her ass handed to her by the Sentient that attacked the Tower of the Unum, and she could only take it down by going suicidal with a massive bomb.

The only thing that was powerful enough to actually hold the Sentient back was the Unum itself, and even then... the Unum could only protect ancient Ur from it. Couldn't kill it.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

15 hours ago, VotumPrime said:

Zaws. Kitguns. Magus Lockdown. Rivens.

A bunch of hill billies and debt slaves will do what a mighty ancient empire never could and make more powerful and deadlier weapons than the Orokin Empire defeat their greatest enemy the Sentients at the same time.

For those of you who don't know what Magus Lockdown is:

 

Go. Change my mind. We're just lucky Nef wasn't smart enough to put Eudico and the Solaris in charge of weapons manufacturing.

You forget, the Orokin made Warframes. They also had some form of honor or something. They could make more powerful technology but they won’t. While you may think that Fortuna made their own technology, they probably took it from the Orokin and replicated it. Also, the Unum is probably responsible for their advancement who is a tower made by the Orokin. That by itself made the Orokin far superior. The other thing is, the Orokin didn’t only make weapons. They made their entire civilization. The Fortuna and Cetus residents have not achieved the civilizations that the Orokin had. They could barely get off their planet. Orokin technology isn’t really more powerful but it’s more civilized. They just weren’t ready to face the Sentients at the time because they had their own civilization to run.

Edited September 16, 2019 by (PS4)TertulSee

[VotumPrime]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TertulSee said:

You forget, the Orokin made Warframes. They also had some form of honor or something. They could make more powerful technology but they won’t. While you may think that Fortuna made their own technology, they probably took it from the Orokin and replicated it. Also, the Unum is probably responsible for their advancement who is a tower made by the Orokin. That by itself made the Orokin far superior. The other thing is, the Orokin didn’t only make weapons. They made their entire civilization. The Fortuna and Cetus residents have not achieved the civilizations that the Orokin had. They could barely get off their planet. Orokin technology isn’t really more powerful but it’s more civilized. They just weren’t ready to face the Sentients at the time because they had their own civilization to run.

You think the Orokin made Kitguns? You think the Orokin made Zaws?

They are purely Solaris and Ostron original design and it doesn't seem like arcanes are Orokin in origin.

[VotumPrime]

16 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Nope. Lore-wise, even us Tenno cannot handle Sentients, at least not alone. Gara got her ass handed to her by the Sentient that attacked the Tower of the Unum, and she could only take it down by going suicidal with a massive bomb.

The only thing that was powerful enough to actually hold the Sentient back was the Unum itself, and even then... the Unum could only protect ancient Ur from it. Couldn't kill it.

They used a Cascade Void Bomb to destroy it. The Warframe might have died but the Operator was still alive.

[DrakeWurrum]

2 minutes ago, VotumPrime said:

They used a Cascade Void Bomb to destroy it. The Warframe might have died but the Operator was still alive.

If it's a bomb using void energies, that's actually unlikely.

Point is, even if the Operator would have survived, the Warframe would have been completely destroyed by the Sentient. Leaving the Operator with nothing to do but watch as the Sol system is torn apart by that lone Sentient.

Edited September 16, 2019 by DrakeWurrum