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[DE]Danielle

Arbitrations Revisited: Hotfix 25.7.6

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On 2019-09-18 at 1:13 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Tweaked weather patterns in the Plains of Eidolon to prevent lengthy rainy periods

??? PoE is still literally raining all the time after this "fix"

Edited by KitMellow

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Community feedback:
-Resurgence burdens should be manually picked up;
-Aura mods and arcanes should be dropped from drones and/or added to vitus tradeable.

DE: No can do, sorry.

Community: arb sucks

DE: 

Spoiler

Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.pn

 

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I tried the new arbi, I like the pace of rotations and really I cant compare the old and new rewards rotation (sorry I didnt pay enough atention to that), but one thing i've noticed is VITUS ESCENCE its barely visible at all, was an struggle to point the exact position when you already taked it due vaccum/fetch. I think they should be more visble and, preferently, marked down as the ayatan stars or reactant. That would be pretty useful.

Edited by xHeretic
typos
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The fact they made vitus essence not appear on hud like sentient cores is probably because they DONT want you to be picking all of them up to slow your farm down.

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53 minutes ago, xHeretic said:

I they should be more visble and, preferently, msrqued down as ayatan stars or reactant. That would be pretty useful.

Same applies to Somatic Fibers on Lua destruptions. ...and probably to more suchlike. There was this guy the other day screaming all the time - "MARK ME THE Somatic Fibers!, Why is nobody marking the  Somatic Fibers.. "

Well it is hard to even see when you picked the damn thing 'cause it is an auto pick. And at the same time you auto-picked like 10 other things but the captions below move so fast you  cant track all the loot you take while running around and shooting... 

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I've played a lot of arb, like 400 rounds+ and I've never had an issue with the revives.  I actually like being able to revive teammates.  If you're going for a deep run, you can use recruit or the arb discord and you will be met with experienced players.  In a shorter run <50 digs you can easily revive people w any frame, just using op mode.  I've picked up all 5 plenty of times(as khora or other non tank) because the quicker you can get your teammate back up the better usually.  People go down, it happens, but I've never had guys just constantly going down early on, and if it happens later and multiple times, its probably time to extract.  If you don't want to revive, then you go recruit #experienced etc.  If you're complaining about revive and you aren't going over 25 rounds in a mission, then you need to get better arcanes/upgrade OP.  And going down in a dig has a much bigger impact than a downed teammate in almost any other mode because most people dig 2 at once at least, so then you have one guy on one of the digs, who may not be a defender (esp in pubs).

But this is a minor issue, compared to this terrible loot table, which makes me not care about arbs anymore, and these new filler arcanes/mods should be the main focus on this thread, not revives, which is a non issue.

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10 hours ago, RWBY-WhiteRose said:

I said this before I actually saw the drop tables.

Also 75%*2 equals 1.5x because technically it's double the rotations, but yeah hurray for useless stuff.

Yeah. With roughly 30% chance at getting the endo now, you are more likely to get nothing useful than get the more endo as DE promised. Vitus Essence should be used to buy most of the stuff that is in the loot tables, (including the ephemera, which is a one time thing only), but now it is also in the loot table to buy the worthless stuff in store. A lose-lose situation. It is hard to screw up this bad, especially with the amount of feedback provided ahead of time, both before and after the dev workshop, but DE managed to do it.

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The fact that Vitus essence drop is being affected by double ressource booster is Kinda OP/sad and transformed Arbitration into a :platinum:Machine
Market is getting flooded with Archgun Riven mods and i guess Overall riven prices will drop since it's extremely easy to farm the 10K kuva thing now

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On 2019-09-19 at 12:43 AM, SpagHeddy said:

Also, a feature which allows people to see (like mods) which arcanes are equipped would be extremely helpful. Most players and traders do share the same arcane in multiple builds, when sold every build has to be checked twice to see if arcanes are equipped.

there's a feature that shows when choosing a mod during trading, whether it's equipped????

in the mod selection screen??
when did they add that!? 😮 that's some biiiig QOL help, if true

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33 minutes ago, DragoonStorm1 said:

there's a feature that shows when choosing a mod during trading, whether it's equipped????

in the mod selection screen??
when did they add that!? 😮 that's some biiiig QOL help, if true

Mods always had an indicator in the middle of their bottom 😄

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Still no sign of DE admitting their obvious stubbornness toward players feedback?

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i have to agree with those that say to move the new rewards to the store. i really do not see the point in more vitus when i have no new need to check out the store. 

shockingly, i now feel less interested in playing Arbi seeing how endo is now a much more uncommon drop. as an endgame player who's slowly maxing out prime mods, Arbi was my key endo farm and even thought you've done the right thing making the missions normal length... idk if i can be bothered to hang around for just as long (since rotation has changed) for even LESS chance of decent endo drops.

i still love the game but i am going to politely point out that this update might not have been it, chief 😬

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16 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

not sure how that matters since you can literally go back to the previous weapon you were using just by aiming.....the whole reason they are doing melee 3.0 (even if they are taking for-freaking-ever on it)

Does aiming swap immediately (unaffected by mods)?

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2 minutes ago, Raging_Jax said:

Well like the weekly Dev stream was conveniently or inconveniently depending how you look at it "postponed" until next week. Not sure if thats happened before but seems oddly coincidental and somehow even more ignorant than whats already going on lol 

It happens all the time. Idk if you’ve been intentionally ignoring it but there hasn’t been a devstream in several weeks because Rebecca, Megan, etc. are on vacation

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29 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Does aiming swap immediately (unaffected by mods)?

If you mean from melee to a primary/secondary, yes. If you mean from primary to secondary or vice versa, no, I’m fairly certain that aiming/firing during that weapon swap cancels the swap or maybe some other action cancels it as well.

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Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

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23 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

A loot table for a game mode supposed end game shouldn't have one-in-a-time rewards. PERIOD. Arbitration were made to farm Endo. PERIOD. this is a useless dilution of the loot table which ALL people in the feedback thread asked you NOT to. Period. You took out the cyan star bundle reward, but not the one-time reward to put them to the shop, while everyone was telling you to? There is no reason to wait. The community voiced their opinions. LOUDLY. The game mode is supposed to be done infinitely, but this is just an incentive to NOT play, once you get all the mods, because the loot table to get Endo will have become bloated with junk, after you got the one-time rewards.

The tennos voiced their opinions. Your turn to put these items back where they belong, in the store, and let arbitration be for Endo.

 

( In the meantime, a way to drop revive burden, as asked , again, by everyone, would be nice... Or to have to manually pickup them, like a star, would be the best. This is literally preventing me from enjoying arbis. Just a way to decide, for yourself, without being imposed this, if you want to take/keep the burdens. I should be able to decide for myself if yes or no I want to take the risk to revive this player which died in wave one with their squishy Nova, expecting that everything would be fine. I shouldn't have to endure a burden token that I accidentally pickup and which can only be dropped by dying or reviving said squish. I want to decide if I want to take the risk. Not being forced to. )

 

Edited by mikakor
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32 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

Might as well have posted nothing. Even on a scale from 0 to 10 damage control, this is like a 0,2.

Also, "Thank you for your feedback"? You guys didn't listen to the (Arbitration) feedback before, why would we believe you now?

Edited by -AxHx-Vile
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33 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

Danielle, that does not sound very encouraging.

1) We've had the revive system for months now, so we already know we don't like it.

2) Drop table pollution clashes against increased Vitus acquisition rate. The only new thing we can use them on is Kuva instead of these new rewards.

Edited by Jarriaga
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18 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

1. You might've seen the comment suggesting a badass cosmetic armor set purchaseable from the vitus shop for 100+ vitus essence per piece, that would be sick.

2. The arcanes and mods could use some love, if theyre going to drop in end game they have to be competitive or at least comparable to the better eidolon dropped arcanes. Seeing as theyre generally behind a longer time gate as not every end game player is going to play every arb that pops up as some can just be not to your playstyle.

3. The mod cards, seem incredibly niche if not an overall miss especially with them being in the Aura slot, if they were exilus as i've seen suggested they might have a tinge more worth than they currently do.

4. Its undeniable that endo has been reduced overall with the drop table dilution and rng being what it is calculated averages for endo/hr are kinda useless(just my opinion).

5. Having more variation in the buffs an arb is offering would be cool, as opposed to always Power Str that some frames dont really benefit from perhaps having the bonus be useful to the frame in a general sense as opposed to a blanket 300% str across the board. On that note, maybe instead of just 300% damage it could be 300% Corrosive Damage, Viral, Gas, etc w/ X weapon. 

6. Perhaps the chance to do the arbitration more than once per hour would be nice since a handful of times in my experience folks queue up get in and after 10 min "Sorry gtg" which can be a solid inconvenience in some respects (primarily losing half my team to dogs at their doors in every disruption arb i get in).

Getting away from arbitration specifically, I think reconsidering or maybe reevaluating the Eidolon rebuff/fix in some respects would be a good idea, I'm definitely not saying make Tridos accessible to every person capable of hitting their head on a wall but allowing more variation in kit would be wicked. At the very least not having most folks pigeon holed into using the Rubico would be sweet. Realistically I dont see why well built weapons with competent users/frames and a bit of team cohesion arent/cant be as useful. Maybe Im an idiot and thats already the case, just a bit of food for thought. 

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16 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

While I appreciate the...feedback, it's a bit too far down the road.  This is especially true given the feedback on the pre-launch state was the same we are confirming now.

 

You've set out the math in your posts detailing what was to come.  More rewards, less endo, better overall experience.  The math agrees with you, regarding what you've released to date.  I don't argue that you started out in the right place.  The problem is you've only half revealed the solution, and the half not discussed openly was adding even more low drop rate items into a pool rife with statistically insignificant drop items.

 

The feedback here was that dilluting drop tables and adding in more stuff that will take hundreds of runs to collect is not a reasonable way to pad out the rewards structure of the game mode.  The math is apparent here.  An arcane with a 5% drop chance has a 95% chance of not dropping.  This means that half of the player base will get the reward after 14 cycles.  A quarter or the player base will have two after 28 reward cycles.  After 140 cycles 0.098% of the player base will have 10 of the arcanes.  

Let me be real here for a second.  2 A and 2 B rewards every hour means 70 hours in there will be a grand total of 0.098% if the player base with enough arcanes to get a fully maxed arcane.  

Conversely 1 in 1.024*10^13, or 1 in 10,240,000,000,000 people getting a given arcane in 10 hours of gameplay.  Statistically someone getting all the multiple pieces in 30 hours is slightly better given the more diverse pool of acceptable drops, but that's functionally a full time job week to win the lottery twice in a row after being hit by lightning.

 

I know you guys can do math.  I may joke about the ability some times, but it's because you only fool people who want to be fooled.  These new arcanes are a complete insult, that would be exceptionally easy to fix with a simple change.  Why it's "too quick" to fix something that could mathematically be proven out at the same time as your new rewards structure being a "better feeling" system is beyond anyone capable of basic statistical mathematics.  Can you please stop pretending a crap RNG drop rate is extension of content?  Once I get the Lato and Braton I'm not going back to ESO or SO except to power level.  Defections are dead.  The Nidus BPs are hidden behind another dead game mode.  Archwing is only popular now because of the open worlds.  All of this roots back to you adding content that is punishing to grind and once the grinding is done the player base hates the content because it was a penalty to overcome.

 

Please, move the arcanes to Vitus Essence.  Ideally, also move the auras there.  You suddenly have a concentrated enough drop table to offer Vitus drops more frequently, and mods at a rate that doesn't feel like an insult.  The shop is now the draw, because you can grind for Vitus and get the rewards even without having to sacrifice multiple D-20s to RNGesus.  The reward attainment rate is linked to player investment, so burn-out and frustration don't occur.  This is such a simple fix, but you talk like it'll be another two weeks of collecting data after a month of receiving visceral community feedback that this would be painful.

 

So we're clear, 5 runs of defense were endo, endo, endo, arcane, and endo yesterday.  After literal thousands of kills I had 3 extra Vitus Essence that were a crap shoot at finding (I apparently missed one or two).  I have nothing I want from the shop, because it's cosmetics that offer no benefits.  Converting stars to amber isn't a use for Vitus Essence.  Great, now I get to collect another resource that will likely gather dust until a year from now when someone decides another Sibear/Hema is needed and dojo research requires 1000 of the thing to make another lackluster weapon get finished.  Or maybe it'll just be 100+ for any railjack so it can come out of the gates handicapped.

 

I don't hate any of you (and I state this because this level of anger is often misconstrued as such).  I don't hate the game.  I hate the fact that you either haven't done the math, can't do it, or more likely did it and decided that this was an acceptable fix for arbitrations lacking anything new and showing off the broken scaling of enemies (Grind<>Content).  I believe that you're doing this to keep people coming back, because it's exactly the same shenanigans that have Eidolon runs still be a thing years later because the three ultra rare arcanes might as well simply not exist because several hundred runs in there's still so many holes in the collection that if I didn't understand statistics I'd suggest was back-door manipulation to prevent me from getting all of them just by grinding.

Please, this is what kills player bases.  You can do better, and it doesn't have to be pulling teeth.  Please just give us drops that feel rewarding, instead of an insulting low percentage roll that is "completely fair" because it's random.  I believe you to be better; don't prove me delusional.  

 

 

I share this knowing I may eat a ban, but I'm pretty sure any reasonable response has dissipated with the quoted line.  We're looking at a slow or no fix that may take another year.  It's...sad that our input means so little.  In respect to this insult, consider me not paying for anything again.  It's slight, but I'm not supporting EA's FIFA levels of crap drop rates.  You suck the fun out of the game with this frustration, and to what end is beyond me.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Happy Friday, Tenno!

Regarding our recent Arbitration reward changes: we are keeping an eye on first impressions, but do not want to rush into changes before players have gotten to actually try the mode themselves. Once we have a solid body of statistics to examine, we will perform an audit to see if further tweaks are required.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

We gave you the exact same feedback about the new mods/auras needing to be for vitus essence not in the drop table BEFORE you even released the update.... you then went and ignored our feedback, like usual in all honesty, release the updated arbitrations with diluted drop tables with even more '1 time only items'.... 

So we then reiterate the exact same feedback regarding rewards when the new update is released... ie the new mods and aura's should be for vitus essence, not in the drop tables.... it completely defeats the point in boosting vitus essence rewards if you're not going to have anything to spend it on. 

Now you're basically ignoring it again, statistics aren't really going to show anything in regards to the above issue... it really does feel like your message is basically trying to 'divert' people away from the issue with the suggestion you might do something down the line and then basically hope we all forget so you can brush it under the carpet, it wouldn't be the first time either.

 

Oh and just for the record, stupidly low drop rates on items will not encourage the majority of players to keep going back to a game mode, especially when the items on offer are rather lacklustre, they'll just say screw it and ignore the game mode and do without the item(s)

I also feel that the vitus essence dropping from the drones should also go straight into everyones rewards (same with kuva on disruption in all hoensty) rather than having to hunt around for it.

Edited by LSG501
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