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[DE]Danielle

Arbitrations Revisited: Hotfix 25.7.6

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3 hours ago, Jokie155 said:

Since the reddit community decided to be pack animals over a simple joke that I elaborated on and got bombed for, I'll come here to be harassed as well.

Arcanes are fine in the Arbitration rotations. Quite frankly I get the impression they'd be much more costly to acquire if put into the shop based on typical Vitus drop rates. Even if the cost ended up being just 10 essence per individual arcane for a total of 100 to get a max rank. And I am much happier seeing them in the reward screen over sculptures I can't do anything with for lack of amber stars, nor will have much use for because oh yeah, Arbitrations are meant to be endgame when endo is common place anyway.

I'm actually enjoying things for the first time, but there are still so many on this dumb hangup about the shop. It's far less toxic than what happens with Eidolon arcanes, should they just be stuck in a shop too? Oh wait...

Except arbitration was made to gain Endo. Period. It will never change. People are mad for a good reason. DE #*!%ed us with loot table. They are polluting the loot table with stuff that people doing arbitration DON'T want.

Also the classic idiot argument : "it's end game so of course Endo isn't needed at all" BS... No. Endo is still needed. Despite being able to kill everything in this game, I still need a lot, lot of Endo. And Arbis were my place for this.

 

People are right to be mad. Especially when they see someone making a statement that obviously doesn't look at the whole picture...

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On 2019-09-18 at 9:13 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.

Concerning Vitus Essence drops from Arbi Drones:

- is the amount of Vitus Essence affected by drop chance and/or resource boosters?

- is the amount affected by Smeeta's Charm buff?

- as Nekros', Khora's and Hydroid's (and Atlas') pilfering effects are warframe ability-based and Arbi Drones are immune to abilities, they do not affect Vitus Essence drops?

- is the actual drop chance anywhere to be found?

 

Thanks for the change btw, HUGE improvement to Arbitrations!

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1 hour ago, Graavarg said:

Concerning Vitus Essence drops from Arbi Drones:

- is the amount of Vitus Essence affected by drop chance and/or resource boosters?

- is the amount affected by Smeeta's Charm buff?

- as Nekros', Khora's and Hydroid's (and Atlas') pilfering effects are warframe ability-based and Arbi Drones are immune to abilities, they do not affect Vitus Essence drops?

- is the actual drop chance anywhere to be found?

 

Thanks for the change btw, HUGE improvement to Arbitrations!

1. Yes it is affected by resource boosters, and I think its also affected by drop chance boosters
2. Yes
3. I don't think they work on drones
4. it should be here: https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html
but it's not...

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Waht is the problem i get all before 3 day only need Aura :Shepherd

Big luck

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Im Luck: 😄

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Im Sad  😪

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Edited by BDT_Flames

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I love how people whine about how DE ruined Endo farm from arbitration with the arcane and aura while im sitting here with 173 ayatan sculptures waiting to get soceted and 100k kuva just from 7 arbies match.

Sometimes people just whine alot, and DE finally did something good with this update

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2 minutes ago, Mayonaiser said:

I love how people whine about how DE ruined Endo farm from arbitration with the arcane and aura while im sitting here with 173 ayatan sculptures waiting to get soceted and 100k kuva just from 7 arbies match.

Sometimes people just whine alot, and DE finally did something good with this update

Well if you cant fill them then theyre not exactly good endo. Idk about your luck, aside from round vitus I've been seeing scattered small amounts off drones and the occasional 3x on the table. That also lends to the fact I havent gained 100k Kuva but that could just be down to vitus luck. Furthermore the argument wasnt solely that DE had ruined things but that they had diluted the table, proposed rewards as endgame half of which at least do not resemble that, and lastly folks were upset that there was 17 pages of feedback given on those points before the update and what they had to say about that was giving the auras and arcanes names not addressing the feedback then proceeding to push the update and ask for feedback when theyd just the week before ignored the larger portion of feedback offered.

All of that being said the game mode changes themselves are positive, some of the reward items arent exactly endgame (i.e. the arb arcanes vs hydrolyst arcanes, a arb specific cosmetic armor set, vandal or wraith weapons specific to arb, a new ayatan sculpture, ANY of these were options that were proposed and thusly ignored.) Theres still changes that can and should be made to the game mode, the warframe buff shouldnt be Power Strength only when not all frame benefit from just str. Being playable more than once per hour due to folks leaving @ 5min/round 5 or host connection problems. The game mode rolling defense more than twice in a row is repetitive and silly (not to say defense is bad) but mission types shouldnt be repeating 3-4 times before a new one pops in, on that note theres at least two types of players in the world why not offer a choice X Arb w/ X bonuses OR Y arb w/ Y bonuses depending on your playstyle or preferred frame choice. Adding the ability for exalted weapons to harm drones even at 25% the damage (Makes even more sense if frames like wukong are being rolled on top of your arb mission, why offer a buff to just hamstring it?). I could probably go on and on and THAT is the issue, THAT is what players are upset about.

Hope I helped you kind of frame the perspective some of us are viewing this from, have a good morning Tenno. 

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The problem is that ignorant crying dilutes the actual feedback 😞 The forum SHOULD be a good place to give feedback, but it isn't, because most of the replies you read are just carbon copies of something people saw and now think is bad for them specifically, so it is easier to just use data from the actual game. If the number of players who join arbitrations significantly increased and is staying that way, then they did good. If players leave it, then they did bad.

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On 2019-09-24 at 2:26 PM, Mayonaiser said:

 100k kuva just from 7 arbies match.

Sometimes people just whine alot, and DE finally did something good with this update

Ya update for Kuva is interesting

  58 Vitus Essence= 600  kuva but  he is  for nightwave

I tested and lose all xaaxax

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22 minutes ago, IceBen said:

The problem is that ignorant crying dilutes the actual feedback 😞 The forum SHOULD be a good place to give feedback, but it isn't, because most of the replies you read are just carbon copies of something people saw and now think is bad for them specifically, so it is easier to just use data from the actual game. If the number of players who join arbitrations significantly increased and is staying that way, then they did good. If players leave it, then they did bad.

That would be a very black and white way to look at the statistics, I'd assume and hope DE will cross reference their stats the with the suggestions and opinions of the player base to find something that best meets in the middle or at the very least makes sense. To have your player interaction numbers go up (which they would anyways since the gamemode was updated folks will flock to test so naturally higher numbers) and use that as your only source of data would be a silly thing to do from any standpoint, you'd be ignoring and throwing away who knows how many other stats, sources of info or variables that might affect a players response to the update. Hope that doesnt come off confrontational, have a good morning.

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47 minutes ago, IceBen said:

The problem is that ignorant crying dilutes the actual feedback 😞 The forum SHOULD be a good place to give feedback, but it isn't, because most of the replies you read are just carbon copies of something people saw and now think is bad for them specifically, so it is easier to just use data from the actual game. If the number of players who join arbitrations significantly increased and is staying that way, then they did good. If players leave it, then they did bad.

I'm not even far enough to play Arbitrations, honestly. I'm just upset and somewhat disappointed that they ignored so much feedback after specifically asking for it. Plus, even if it's not bad for me, people who are affected by it are saying that it's bad for them. Just because it isn't directly affecting you doesn't mean you shouldn't care.

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I have 4 or 5 Aura Forma BPs. They each cost 4 Formas to build. All the Frames I'm invested enough in to use an Aura Forma on, I've already done so. I constantly need regular Formas for Frames, Weapons, Companions, Archguns etc.

Why would I ever craft any of my Aura Forma BPs? Every time they drop as a Rotation Reward, it feels like a wasted Rotation. Please either reduce the BPs' Forma Cost from 4 to 1, or move them from the Drop Tables to the Vitus Trade Shop thing.

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7 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

1. Yes it is affected by resource boosters, and I think its also affected by drop chance boosters
2. Yes
3. I don't think they work on drones
4. it should be here: https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html
but it's not...

Its just me or the res booster no longer double the vitus from drones? 
Sealt nerf ? 

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18 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

I like your long answer with your perspective and i agree with some things

Eidolon arcanas are the best in the game and actually if you go more deep the thing of cetus is like 80% of the game

focus schools , energize, grace, guardian, also good arcanas for weapons/melee, plague zaw, if you see there most of content are just eidolons

Fortuna: Lockdown, lega propa certus amp, 2 arcanas for kitguns

You can compare right there: Cetus vs fortuna

About: Lua lens, disruption missions meh, i dont know how new players feel the new lua lens, but eidolon hunts are the best ways and allways will be the best way to get focus, and actually something pretty sad after you have everything maxed you start to get 50 100 200 million focus there for no reason

I mean being shortly for these players who have 2 million endo (the idea around arbitration was endo, now is like 50% 50%) clearly is not worth or maybe a little but at the end of the say you can sell primed mod maxed, 20 mods maxed means 800k endo, so yes you can clean your endo pretty quick in some weeks you are not a monster of the endo

About kuva: clearly in warframe is end game, kuva is maded for those players with everything maxed and start to build their weapons with max stats im not talking about mr15 doing rivens trading and farming kuva, and after that selling a riven for a dual keres by 3k pl (and actually this changes its a big nerf for them, because clearly an riven for a "weak" "no meta" weapon is not 3k some prices are just stupid)

at the end of the day, if you are an mr27 with 30 primary, 30 secondary, 30 melee, everything with max stats rivens 8 formas each weapons, every single warframe with 5 or 6 formas, clearly is not content for you sadly because  its simple why you are farming endo? kuva? you already have 20 or 30 sets/combos of warframe/weapons to equip with max literally max damage and also 50k+ plats to do whatever you want

But saying again for all these players from mr20? (im 21) almost reaching the peak damage or level of warframe this new arbitration its the vicotry, i can tell you literally farmed 150k kuva maybe more i dont know how many but was worth to get good stats on my main weapons i rerolled 10 rivens in some days, in a month i have every single riven with good stats all thanks this changes

Also i maxed 4 primed mod, sold 2 and still having 50k endo for whatever else (i maxed some maybe useless mods like primed pack leader for pets or strenght for archiwng)

i think the main problem here we are playing warframe in the same way than 3 years ago corrosive projection/shield disruption its allways there, condition overload pretty much the same you can build your best rifle with 10k plats riven, but i will hit 700k per hit super fast with my gram/zaw with a cheap riven, they made a futuristic game where a melee are the best weapon

i allways try read and follow the community but sadly there are allways people saying "why this is so hard, why nrg, please buff these content is hard to get) i dont know i farmed every single warframe i had no problems maybe i for a guy who play 1 hour per day is hard to get every single frame, but i feel warframe its easy on start and they are making the game super easy with no fun because the community , for all these players with 500 hours mr20 rushing mr

hard to explain everyone have their perspective but in general players of warframe are super casual, play a little time every day and they focus on MR

maybe its time for warframe rivens with very low drop chance in very long runs and very hard missions for you, for me in some months, something worth in content to stay 1 hour in a mission, but for now kuva and endo i farmed in this days was nice really nice, and actually i think i farm kuva faster in arbitration than survival kuva and also in the middle i farm endo, and some arcanas, that means pl.

if you want to see, check my profile i started to play in decemeber of 2018, in 70 days i was already with all the content, and i still playing why? dont know i doing all these secondary/useless things for no reason like i said for example max an strenght archwing mod

Allow me to try and condense here, because a lot of these points are about you personally and thus cannot be argued.  "I..." is a factual statement, that doesn't do us much good because your truth and mine are different.  

 

What we can argue is facts.

The drop tables, if 100% accurate, for Arbitrations suck.  For 90% of players to get a full 10 set of the new arcanes is silly (10 arcanes, 5% drop rate, 99% of players get a single after 90 runs so 90% of players have 10 after 900 runs).  That, tied to another time limiter, is mathematically chosen by the developers to stretch content rewards out an insane amount simply to not have to make more.  Either that, or they expect that most people won't engage and these are going to be non-vital and thus mediocre.  Take your pick, but if you hide something that will become meta behind a huge grind wall it's an insult to the players who aren't willing to fork over money, and is by definition a pay to win.

 

What about the content?  Technically, you could blast through all of the content in Warframe in about 28 days.  One MR test per day, power grinding through missions, and then power levelling equipment through SO/ESO/your choice of item here.  The only obstacles are build times, drop rates, and vaulted content.  Lay down about 200 USD in platinum and you can buy the vaulted content, slots, and enough forma.  The only obstacle would be things like the drop rates of Acceltra, Akarius, etc...  Now, that's going to also include the double grind of Fortuna and Arbitrations.  If your purpose is to power through the content you win, game over.

 

DE can't or won't generate content constantly.  I favor the later interpretation, as it means they aren't pushing out another weapon like the Braton (MK-1, standard, Vandal, Prime, and all utter trash in my opinion).  I suspect the later as the Nightwave is largely cosmetic rewards and has been...less than successful on bringing new things to the table on a regular basis.  Aside, aside, the point is that DE has to make the content worth getting.  They're fighting people who power level, so instead of changing how they reward things they went with RNG drops.  Then they went with RNG drop rates that are stupidly low, and claim it as reasonable for a looter shooter with hordes (read: insanely low but you have huge quantities of potential drops).  Then, they started to time gate things by having a day/night cycle.  Now we've got things resetting after on hour, being RNG, and requiring cheese because the game's armor/health system is a logarithmic function and thus at a certain point there's an overhang where single levels can almost double how much it takes to kill something.  What isn't noted is that damage also increases, so even good players have to cheese because a single rocket can literally kill you from full health and shields. 

If you've been around, DE has always fought this.  In the old days it was running out of ammo or energy on an extended void mission.  They didn't fix the scaling, they introduced pizzas for ammo and energy.  Then people could last longer in the void, until they were constantly being one-shot.  Instead of fixing the scaling they kept introducing new warframes and powers.  Powers got too strong, so they introduced nullifiers.  Nullifiers are a pain, so they created a mod for an underused weapon (Miter) to address the bubbles and spat out more high fire rate weapons.  Players responded by simply avoiding the Corpus tiles, because nullifier make combat a pain.  Meta weapons were introduced.  DE introduced Rivens to combat the meta and make all weapons viable.  Rivens make some weapons insanely good, churning the meta as any change to them results in some people getting rich and others losing a good weapon that was otherwise garbage without the riven.  Rivens are now altered not on weapon power, but on weapon usage stats to make things more equal, not to power balance.

During all of the above the community responded with a simple question, why not change the scaling?  If you did that there'd be no reason for the dozen other things you're bolting on to address a core issue.  Unfortunately, if DE did this they'd have to address the other things and now that's not fixing a single issue but completely rebalancing the game they've built everything else on.  Better to not fix the core issue, and blunder through with the miles of spaghetti code fixes.

 

So, what I believe people are asking for is good content that is worth earning constantly.  They thought that the echoes of Umbra would be that (I'm willing to bet pretty much anything on that), based upon their limited duration and the thought that a companion would be more power.  What they failed to consider is that their AI for partners is terrifyingly bad, so you lose all those benefits of having a stationary frame (shield/energy/health recharge).  What we got instead was another insane grind.  Yay.  That's why the response from the community for this was so....immediate and clear.  Instead of understanding that a 24 hour reward that highlighted further issues with the game (hit but mostly miss follower AI), we wanted something that was truly rewarding.

Echoes are not a regular power reward worth grinding for.  Likewise, the Arcanes and Aura would begin clogging our inventory like forma BPs, so DE decided that instead of that they'd make the drop rates vanishingly small.  It's not possible to grind the content if it'd take hundreds of hours to grind, and is time locked, right?  Well, the feedback to that was anger.  If you're surprised, then you haven't really understood the math.  

 

What do we want?  Well, that's content constantly worth getting.  That's content not artificially time gated, and not frustratingly useless in practice.  If I could interject, I'd like to see the following rewards that could be time limited, able to be ground for, and ideally locked behind some steep Vitus Essence costs with either the introduction of shield gating or proper enemy level scaling so that cheese tactics aren't necessary to win:

1) Enemy beacons to call the stalker/wolf/G3/Zanuka.  These would be a tougher version (read: extra mechanic like health regen or non-damaging auras), but offer more of the rare rewards.  This would allow grinding for the last few items, or could introduce alternative ways to earn the landing craft pieces.  

2) Toroid packages.  The broken drops, low quantities, and RNG nature make these frustrating.  It's effectively a way to get the cosmetics on offer from Little Duck, or power through the syndicate without having to grind the Profit-Taker.  Again, choice trumps everything here.  You choose how you want to play.

3) Glyphs.  It'd be a one time reward, but if you introduced a new one worth 50 essence every month you'd have a 600 essence hole per year to earn against.  No gameplay influence, but a definite reason to grind for completionists and those who like the thing.

4) Built daily reward items.  That's be extra copies of the Prime mods (with an inventory check to see what you already have similar to Cephalon Simaris) and weapons so we could actually have extras.  This would then lead to needing to trade them, making them less rare.  At the same time, 3 years for a set of armor is...let's say it's like solving a 10,000 piece puzzle and discovering the picture is a giant steaming pile of poo.  It's not really a reward so much as edifying that you've done something constantly.  What's that definition of insanity, doing something again and again and expecting a different result?

5) Companion unique genes and an organic breeding system.  Hear me out here, but the Kubrows and Kavats are at best OK.  You're locking them behind an RNG birth wall, and once born they've functionally only differentiated themselves by the mods they can carry.  Let's change this up.  Introduce gene pairings that'll boost and decrease stats, along with the choice for gender/types.  I'd love for each organic pet to be a trio of gene patterns, where two alter status and one selects for type and sex.  Each new pet can then be optimized for its skills, and you've got a whole new set of gameplay where you can min/max a companion organic.  Heck, introduce this with the ability to instant select from frozen pets without gene degredation (that thing you talked about more than a year ago) and you've got a huge recurring ability to become a Kubrow/Kavat breeder.  New game mode that is entirely power based, could be an ongoing reward for some unique gene combinations, and creates a resource churn for argon crystals and breeding spaces.

6) Everything said above in 5, but for Sentinels.  Instead of genes give us two Cores and a Shell.  Shells would offer the type (Carrier, Helios, etc...) and the cores offer statistical boosts.  The boosts here would be more significant than the organics, given they don't revive.  They also lack combat potential without the guns, and thus could make sentinels far more durable given the revive limitation.  

7) One time respawns with no penalty to affinity gain or mission enders.  I personally view this as a blessing, after earning 10 Vega and 12 Sola toroids (along with two electric collar mods) I was flying back and got one shotted on Orb Vallis because an infinitely tracking projectile followed me from the Temple of Profit to about half way to Fortuna and an Odonata Prime archwing without mods apparently can't take more than two bullets before you die.  Lost an hour and change worth of grinding and stupidly amazing luck.  A one shot ability to not lose everything, even at the cost of 50-60 Vitus Essence, would have been better than the string of profanity and hour break I had to take to avoid putting my hand through the monitor.

8 ) Real universal syndicate medallions.  No shenanigans with Conclave, and no + one -other situations where you can only get points for 4/6 syndicates.  Likewise, no 1000 standing garbage.  I'm thinking 20k standing a pop or a straight choice of rewards from any syndicate.  This would mean either 3 relics, enough standing for Simaris after 5 to get anything, or the ability to get those cosmetics from each syndicate (as well as all of the biggest energy/shield/health/ammo pizza BPs).  Again, real rewards that we could always use.  If people wanted dozens of relics they could save up, and take more RNG cracks at new ones.  Heck, it's no different from the relic farms that happen after every new prime is revealed.  This just makes it easier to access all the content, if you want to endure a daily grind. 

 

I've provided 7 examples, of which only 3 require any real work.  The other 5 are minimal effort but huge impact.  The three that require work (3, 5, and 6) would either offer a constant stream to grind for with very little effort (hire another 2d artist for about 30-40 hours for a year worth of content, or make a contest where the community annually does this with smaller platinum rewards offered), or an entirely new game mode that would effectively offer a pokemon style min/max situation. 

Of course, the min-max could effectively be as simple as a displayed natures (Beefy = -0.2 speed but 10% more health, Wiry = +0.1 speed type thing) and traits (Cold Blooded = +15% crit chance, Sneaky = +20% status but -10% crit chance).  You'd spur the rush to create things from a tank pick-up machine to a glass cannon that boosts your critical chance with the right sets.  Again, real power that doesn't unbalance the game and is available from the word go.  Also, it'd make each of those buffs slight and highlight the Kavat/Kubrow/Charger set mods to give us real power that adds to our own.  Sentinels are a different bag.  Djinn's infinite respawns would be interesting, and the presence of Primed variants makes this interesting.  You'd likely wind up with more of a min-max situation for each shell, similar to the current state of each sentinel.  You fix that by having each shell have base stats, and the cores boosting them.  Prime shells represent better stats than their regular, with the random factor being in the cores.  Cores would be dropped, and the reward for prime cores would be a smaller second boost.  Think something along the lines of Charger (+armor, +shield regen, -fire rate) or Heavy (+armor, +health, -fire rate) with each prime having specific ones when generated and all pre-existing sentinels getting some standards to prevent a huge recalculation of what already exists (ie, experienced players and new players are all starting from zero, but more sentinels/organics means a better start for the selective creation).  In both the sentinels and organics you suddenly get a new thing that adds real power, is available from the word go, awards all play styles, and is endless in that those rare cores/genes would be added with little effort to add unique bonuses.  Who could argue against a Kavat having 20% of its attack converted into viral damage with an increased status chance (sunder armor and get a viral proc), or another Kavat life leeching upon attacks and generating a blinding flash every 60 seconds while in combat?  Sentinels would be much the same, and could supplement any play style.

 

So why is all of the above obvious to a player and not DE?  I'd guess that companion eugenics is still touchy from the days of RNG coloration.  Likewise, the freebie revive is a return to the paid revivals of years ago...and that's looking backwards from some perspectives.  The resources and glyphs are a means to work around RNG and more work for DE, so those are out.  The beacons are not considered because...I'd guess that the inclusion would cheapen Baro's options.  My argument is his rewards table is plenty long, and the low drop rates are something that DE wouldn't like to mess with.  The Xiphos is something 100% cheaper to earn with real money than grind for.  Getting parts of War is nutty, and they want people to go from a slash to impact based sword and immediately desire the broken war back.  

I'm providing all of this in good faith, but it's going to be ignored.  As with all other feedback, we're going to get none of what we ask for until it's needed to distract for the latest 40% feature complete release....and at that point those paying attention will be too frustrated to care.  What examples could I suggest?  PoE economy took about 16-18 months to fix.  Three versus One location coordinate for Alad V (Mesa parts) took three years to get to.  Hema and Sibear are still stupidly expensive.  Mutagen Masses and Detonite Injectors are rewards for the invasions.  An armistice was implemented for dark sectors because the back and forth of PvP content in the PvE game, and resulting rewards being taxed to oblivion, made them a mess.  Vacuum was a single sentinel, nerfed out of use, almost brought back to the same value, and then years later fetch was introduced for organics.  None of these decisions were introduced without huge player negativity.  The kind that isn't 5% frothing mad psychotics, but 7% frothing and 60+% angry that these were obviously negative decision based upon grind extending content rather than fun being added to justify us spending money.  

 

So here I sit.  I get loving the game, and defending it because after weaning yourself from EA, Acti-Blizzard, and Bethesda level crap this seems like a god send.  I say that having agnostic beliefs, to give you context.  Despite that, those of us older than Horse Armor can see the steaming piles of crap.  I bought expansion packs in my lifetime; the kind of expansions which added a new game's content, were priced at about 1/4 to 1/2 of the original, and were worth every penny.  Let's compare to Warframe.  Each new Prime pack is now $80 for just the actual new content, to say nothing of the cosmetics.  They charge this 4 times a year, barring any expenditures on the vaulted content.  That, in round figures, is $320 a year or $26.67 per month.  For that every three months I get enough platinum to buy a couple of cosmetics packs, the new frames, the new primes, and resources.  For $15 a month ($13 if I pay for the year) I can get a WoW account that has less bugs, doesn't break ever major patch, and each new expansion is functionally tested so that things like doors to the next area not opening and stopping missions, broken scaling, and AI too stupid to cross door thresholds isn't involved.  Likewise, I could play Fortnite with constant content for either $10 or $28 (as an aside Warframe with content and cosmetics is $46.67 per month).  

So why not play those other two games?  That's missing my point.  Warframe has to compete with them.  It doesn't offer polish.  For months at a time it offers no real content.  It has no endgame, or moving rewards to keep playing.  The 8 suggestions above offer that continuing content, and if you let players choose rewards rather than RNGesus potentially making entire weeks of grind mean nothing they'll be happier to spend real money.

I'm part of a not insubstantial amount of players who have cited these points, offered suggestions, and received another mediocre piece of content behind a frustrating RNG wall.  Screw the Lato Vandal and Braton Vandal.  Screw the Xiphos.  Screw the grinds for Harrow, Nidus, and Khora.  Most importantly, you can shove the ephemera grinds down the most fiery pits of hell, and I'd pay to watch them burn.  DE Doesn't have to and shouldn't do this, but instead of listening they add more painful grind.  I'd like to go back to the days of minimal content but monthly(ish) releases.  These grind walls built in to justify the huge periods between significant content drops (read: open worlds) is poison.  That's the one sentence summary.  Stop poisoning Warframe by hiding content with RNG, and we'll play.  Right now, 14 of the $5 skins are literally more expensive than an entire AAA title (barring loot boxes and the like), but are functionally 3d models that do nothing in game after the first few minutes of looking at them.  Fashion frame is endgame is not a fun joke, it's a curse.  If you miss that, then you really miss out on why there's an annual escape of content creators from Warframe, and you miss out on how certain toxic elements are allowed to exist because there's nothing like a ****lord stirring the pot to drive controversy and attention to a game.  As Fifa proves, no attention is bad attention unless it's governmental attention because you tried to rebrand gambling to children.  Warframe, gladly, has removed the RNG content which might be construed as gambling with real money. 

 

 

 

TL; DR:

We need endgame.  Endgame, despite some people's assertion, is possible.  The answer is not more shooty bang-bang to get endgame (because the effort therein should have started before nullifiers were a thing), but new game modes (read; disruption is mobile defense with inst-fail, not a new game mode).  They should have an element of randomness, with players choosing rewards.  They should be available from the start of the game (in limited form), but become more powerful with the players.  They should cascade down from experienced players to new players, allowing a minimal ability to buy a head start without fundamentally disrupting the game.  The endgame should also provide rewards already present, but behind huge grind walls.  This allows experienced players to get what they are missing, but not to spend hours burning out.  The constant rewards, with the ability to choose, is an extension of syndicates.  How DE forgot and remembered them at the same time in Arbitrations is beyond the pale crazy, and all of this was crystal clear if you read the old feedback thread they had before implementing the changes. 

Barring all the rest of the above, it's insulting to get non-answers when your initial feedback seems to be clear and consistent amongst many players.  This is especially galling when one content partner has to make a huge video literally detailing how to fix a frame that's been around for years and never evolved with the meta....especially when your demonstration are literally reiterating what was in the video.  Choo-choo.

 

Apparently to have a voice I need to type my thoughts into a text to voice program and get thumbs up.  That's...miserable.  I hoped DE could do better, and will try at every turn to prod them into doing so.  If I hated Warframe it'd have already gotten the middle fingers and I'd have been on another hiatus....as it stands I'm looking at November being my two years back after two years off....and seriously having to consider what the next two years brings.  That's my truth, you have yours.  I can't change it, only show you what I considered before coming to where I am now.

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On 2019-09-23 at 5:20 PM, mikakor said:

Except arbitration was made to gain Endo. Period. It will never change. People are mad for a good reason. DE #*!%ed us with loot table. They are polluting the loot table with stuff that people doing arbitration DON'T want.

Also the classic idiot argument : "it's end game so of course Endo isn't needed at all" BS... No. Endo is still needed. Despite being able to kill everything in this game, I still need a lot, lot of Endo. And Arbis were my place for this.

 

People are right to be mad. Especially when they see someone making a statement that obviously doesn't look at the whole picture...

Children lash out and do not handle their frustration well. 

 

It is one thing to be frustrated, it is another to voice frustration in a non-productive manner.

Edited by Leqesai
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15 hours ago, -HM-Kanbaru_Suruga said:

Its just me or the res booster no longer double the vitus from drones? 
Sealt nerf ? 

I get 2 on pickup and 4 when my kavat's charm triggers once, so if this doesn't work for you then I think this might actually be a bug, try restarting your game if you haven't already

if this doesn't fix it, contact support, because AFAIK this should be working

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@master_of_destiny

I readed 50% of your comment, i will keep after i came from work 1 hour ago and im really tired

But i see you talk a lot of drop rates, rng, how hard is the game to get some items, readed about toroid new arbitration arcanas, and my answer is literally the same on my first comment.

All of this depends about how many you have to play, if you are a casual player who have a family, work, study and you play 5 hours a week, these drop chances  are a nightmare for sure, literally a nightmare and i agree 100% with you in this scenario

But if you have more time, and actually you are pretty addicted of warframe and you really like the RNG, you can find this drop chances really easy to get whatever in the game

Example: I already have all R3 arcanas from arbitration, except one arcane bodyguard i have 7.

I mean there are 2 types of players here

1º You not have time, you not like much farm and RNG and % drop chances, so you pay platinums, you waste 100 dollars and you get everything else "hard" to get like energize R3 (I do 5x3 eidolons to get an arcana energize R3 and grace R3 took like an entire month doing 3 night hunt every day)

2º People who like my teammates of clan, who like this, who find fun this "gamestyle" play a mission 10000 times farm everything else maxed for you, and sell another 100 for platinums for no reason because these players already have 50k+ plats, and they not need farm but they still farming!!!

Let me be clear, this is my very first game of "farming against bots" i allways played competitive games i have 8k hours of dota2, 2k hours of csgo, 1k whatever else in overwatch, what i like is competitive, warframe its like a change my chill game

What i think, my idea about "end game" its pvp, no more else pvp, real endgame need to be pvp a good system of pvp where you need to show your skills, but sadly this community doesnt like the pvp and also the pvp is not veeery nice, need some fixes (the first one around my head, warframe are so fast to hit quake 3 arena are easier to hit)

I dont know everyone have an perspective about the game and what they like about warframe, "what part" of warframe they want to be like: solo eidolon hunters, solo profit taker, solo survival long runs for no reason, but there its a real thing they are making warframe easier, every time much easier, and easy farm means no hours of content, Lets be extreme with a example

You make a new warframe (Gauss), a new primary and secondary weapon (Acceltra and i not remember the name of secondary) you launch the path and in 1 hour of gameplay you have all of three, they work weeks, maybe an entire month to make 3 new gear for the game and you get all of these in an hour, wait this is me some weeks ago when gauss was launched! i got gauss all parts in a single run of 40 min and 30 min after i had both weapons

Toroids ... i have 8 AMPS (yes for no reason) i farmed all toroids, fish, and minery (Some of these from exploiter) and im here 1.5k hours

So you are saying the game is hard because RNG, there are decent % of drops, and im telling you in 1.5k hours i have everyhing ingame maxed, every single warframe builded, 10 warframes with 4 formas+, 10 weapons 6+ formas, 6 zaws, 8 kitguns, 3 moas, kavats, kubrow, every single of these 6 formas+, all arcanes R3, all maxed primed mod, sold like 30 max mod prime, sold like 15 energize, 5 R3 guardian, 10 or whatever else grace, 8 amps, resources to make a new account and start again of 0 with all weapons, 5.5k platinums, wasting 1k pl in formas, wasting an entire week of gameplay doing plague star (got 130 formas, both plague arcanas R3), farmed every single regular warframe ingame, farmed every single primed warframe aviable, bought vaulted with platinums, farmed like 20 mesa prime, 35 adaptation and i can continue and i not remember everything, in 1.5k hours i have everything elsee!!! that means all the content of the game x5 !!!!, i not need 20 mesa prime, i not need 8 amps, clearly i not need keep doing eidolon hunt after 450 hydro caps, and clearly i not need endo, also kuva at this momento because this week after arbitration path i farmed 500k kuva, i want 500k more to keep rolling some bad rivens i have for weaks weapons, but who cares!! free kuvaa!!! from the "horrible and terrible" rewards from new arbitration

Update: I think, i feel im not sure, they nerf the vitus drops, did 40 min of survival and got 25 vitus, maybe im wrong or was a bad run not sure will confirm in some days

 

So resuming, for a player like me, who have 8.5k hours of dota2, 2000 matches of broodmother being top 1 of dotabuff for months, who not care much repeat the same actions for hours, i have no problem sometimes gets boring you are right, maybe DE need to change rewards from some trash mission with slow rotations, like defense (oh yes people love defense, but excavation are faster, interception are faster, and acually survival are faster in long runs)

What i agree with you: about the endgame its really poor, and i super agree with you about how enemies climb up in arbitration, i cant remember numbers exactly but 90 mins of arbitration survival are lvl 170 and how random you can die (yesterday i died in 30 min of disruption rotation 10 as hildryn with 5.5k shield, literally one shot super random from a corpus nullifier i think or whatever common enemy)

So yes i agree, they need change these one random shoot where you take 10k damage for no reason, and actually thinking a bit deep playing for example 2 hours kuva (my peak was 2.30 hours survival kuva as nekros lvl 0 and atterax lvl 0, what a meme) i found funny and sad at the same time rewards on 20 hours of the game, bundle of 5k credits or whatever else, i mean DE im playing your videogame for 2 hours nonstop give me C rewards everytime or actually give me something special endgame arcanas something special worth to play 2 hours a survival. Special rewards for special players, and in that case i agree about NRG playing 2 hours with 5% drop (im talking about """new content arcanas with super powers""") need to be choosen by me and not a drop like: if i want an R3 Energize v2 need to play 30 hours of survival, 2 hours each, so in that situation i think "hey actually this arcana is pretty good works great for my banshee dps, and actually makes my banshee more viable to play!"

 

I dont know its my idea, warframe is easy for me, requires time, but its a really easy game, when i start warframe i said "hey this is a game for 10 minutes, you do whatever content in game in 10 minutes) and i was not wrong you can do a tridolon in 9 min, you can do a profit taker in 5 min, we are playing literally the game of 10 minutes so, maybe this is why the game say "hey i will not play an hour of survival" because from start the idea of the game is 10 min

PD: Average of dota2 match is 30-40 min, want a deep comment of dota, you see people spamming the same meta heroe for 3 months, doing the same thing, playing the same way same items, doing almost the same clicks pressing the same keys

Why dota still super popular after all of this?, because when you start to play dota you understenad the game its really hard and you understeand the game its 40min, no surprise, nobody crying, you are going to play dota, prepare your 40 minutes of stress

My secret about warframe: Play all the content, you not have khora, octavia and nidus. Do 30 min today of nidus farm, then jump to syndicates, then to fortuna. go sleep repeat. when you have nidus fortuna and syndcates, change, every time change your objetive

When you have everything like my case, the only objetive you have is: get every single riven in meta or weapons you like with godlike stats with max stats

oh god was pretty long comment, this is my perspective i not take numbers like you because NRG are random, can be easy or hard, maybe im lucky but i felt the entire game was quick and easy, or maybe i just had fun doing these missions

After my kuva farm and rerolled all my rivens, only content i will do maybe will be hunts and long arbitration, this is why i want a pvp, but like i said on top nobody like pvp

 

cheers

Edited by Danielw8

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hace 1 hora, Danielw8 dijo:

@master_of_destiny

[...]i have 8k hours of dota2, 2k hours of csgo, 1k whatever else in overwatch [...] im here 1.5k hours [...] like me, who have 8.5k hours of dota2, 2000 matches of broodmother being top 1 of dotabuff for months

 

So, you are here basically saying "I dont have life and I find drop rates are good". To me, that seems like an argument in favour to @master_of_destiny.

Edited by Gaxxian
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On 2019-09-18 at 10:13 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Arbitrations Revisited: Hotfix 25.7.6

Arbitrations Revisited

Last week we released a Dev Workshop (link on those words: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1128051-arbitrations-revisited-part-2/) outlining our plans to improve Arbitrations, revisiting the droptables and improving reward frequency to be more consistent between modes. From new players who just completed the Star Chart, to veterans returning for new Arcanes and Aura mods, we hope these changes result in a more satisfying gameplay experience overall. 

All changes are potentially subject to later changes based on feedback, so try out a few mission types and tell us your thoughts!

Reward and Rotation Changes:

In the original Arbitrations, Excavation missions were the clear outlier in terms of reward output for time spent. The following changes are intended to bring all other missions to the same level as Excavation, and also iterate on other community feedback:

  • Arbitrations now use regular rotation length for their rewards, with the exception of Excavation. Excavation timers have been adjusted to compensate. Example:
    • EX: In lieu of a reward every 10 waves of Defense, you will now receive a reward every 5 waves.
  • Arbitration rotation cadence has been changed from “ABCCCCC...” to “AABBCCCCC...”, so that the same level of time investment is encouraged.
  • Reduced Endo Rewards drop percentage in the drop tables. Rare non-endo reward drop rates are unchanged - you’ll just get twice as many chances!
  • Arbiter Drones will now have a small chance to drop Vitus Essence on kill.
    • Vitus Essence dropped by destroyed Arbitration drones will have the special pickup notification. 

New Arbitration Rewards:
The following rewards have been added to the Arbitrations drop tables:
Stats shown at max rank*

  • New Aura Mods:
    • Aerodynamic: 6 seconds added to Aim Glide/Wall Latch time, decreases damage taken while Airborne by 24%*
    • Swift Momentum: 30% faster Charge Attack speed, 6 seconds added to  Melee Combo time*
    • Shepherd: Increases Companion Armor by 180 and Companion Health by 300*
    • Combat Discipline: Allies gain 20 Health when they make a kill, but the aura bearer loses 10 Health when the bearer makes a kill.*
    • Melee Guidance: Reduces Melee Combo timer on Self by 6 seconds, increases Melee Combo timer for Allies by 12 seconds*
  • New Arcanes:
    • Arcane Primary Charger: On Melee Kill: 20% chance that Primary Weapon damage is increased by 200% for 8 seconds*
    • Arcane Blade Charger:  On Primary Weapon Kill: 20% chance that Melee damage is increased by 200% for 8 seconds*
    • Arcane Pistoleer: On Pistol Headshot Kill: 30% chance to gain 100% ammo efficiency for 4 seconds*
    • Arcane Bodyguard: On Six Melee Kills Within 30 seconds: Heal companion by 600*
    • Arcane Tanker: On Heavy Weapon Summon: Gain 1200 armor for 16 seconds*
    • Per usual rules, an equipped maximum rank Arcane will also grant an extra Arcane Revive
      • Note: You may notice that the new Arcanes have default icons - we will be updating these in the near future with unique imagery.

Can you add relic bundle to c rotation or make normal Disruption drop axi relic as we don't have an efficient axi relic farm in the game please and thank you. 

Edited by ToxicSupport
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4 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

@master_of_destiny

I readed 50% of your comment, i will keep after i came from work 1 hour ago and im really tired

But i see you talk a lot of drop rates, rng, how hard is the game to get some items, readed about toroid new arbitration arcanas, and my answer is literally the same on my first comment.

All of this depends about how many you have to play, if you are a casual player who have a family, work, study and you play 5 hours a week, these drop chances  are a nightmare for sure, literally a nightmare and i agree 100% with you in this scenario

But if you have more time, and actually you are pretty addicted of warframe and you really like the RNG, you can find this drop chances really easy to get whatever in the game

Example: I already have all R3 arcanas from arbitration, except one arcane bodyguard i have 7.

I mean there are 2 types of players here

1º You not have time, you not like much farm and RNG and % drop chances, so you pay platinums, you waste 100 dollars and you get everything else "hard" to get like energize R3 (I do 5x3 eidolons to get an arcana energize R3 and grace R3 took like an entire month doing 3 night hunt every day)

2º People who like my teammates of clan, who like this, who find fun this "gamestyle" play a mission 10000 times farm everything else maxed for you, and sell another 100 for platinums for no reason because these players already have 50k+ plats, and they not need farm but they still farming!!!

Let me be clear, this is my very first game of "farming against bots" i allways played competitive games i have 8k hours of dota2, 2k hours of csgo, 1k whatever else in overwatch, what i like is competitive, warframe its like a change my chill game

What i think, my idea about "end game" its pvp, no more else pvp, real endgame need to be pvp a good system of pvp where you need to show your skills, but sadly this community doesnt like the pvp and also the pvp is not veeery nice, need some fixes (the first one around my head, warframe are so fast to hit quake 3 arena are easier to hit)

I dont know everyone have an perspective about the game and what they like about warframe, "what part" of warframe they want to be like: solo eidolon hunters, solo profit taker, solo survival long runs for no reason, but there its a real thing they are making warframe easier, every time much easier, and easy farm means no hours of content, Lets be extreme with a example

You make a new warframe (Gauss), a new primary and secondary weapon (Acceltra and i not remember the name of secondary) you launch the path and in 1 hour of gameplay you have all of three, they work weeks, maybe an entire month to make 3 new gear for the game and you get all of these in an hour, wait this is me some weeks ago when gauss was launched! i got gauss all parts in a single run of 40 min and 30 min after i had both weapons

Toroids ... i have 8 AMPS (yes for no reason) i farmed all toroids, fish, and minery (Some of these from exploiter) and im here 1.5k hours

So you are saying the game is hard because RNG, there are decent % of drops, and im telling you in 1.5k hours i have everyhing ingame maxed, every single warframe builded, 10 warframes with 4 formas+, 10 weapons 6+ formas, 6 zaws, 8 kitguns, 3 moas, kavats, kubrow, every single of these 6 formas+, all arcanes R3, all maxed primed mod, sold like 30 max mod prime, sold like 15 energize, 5 R3 guardian, 10 or whatever else grace, 8 amps, resources to make a new account and start again of 0 with all weapons, 5.5k platinums, wasting 1k pl in formas, wasting an entire week of gameplay doing plague star (got 130 formas, both plague arcanas R3), farmed every single regular warframe ingame, farmed every single primed warframe aviable, bought vaulted with platinums, farmed like 20 mesa prime, 35 adaptation and i can continue and i not remember everything, in 1.5k hours i have everything elsee!!! that means all the content of the game x5 !!!!, i not need 20 mesa prime, i not need 8 amps, clearly i not need keep doing eidolon hunt after 450 hydro caps, and clearly i not need endo, also kuva at this momento because this week after arbitration path i farmed 500k kuva, i want 500k more to keep rolling some bad rivens i have for weaks weapons, but who cares!! free kuvaa!!! from the "horrible and terrible" rewards from new arbitration

Update: I think, i feel im not sure, they nerf the vitus drops, did 40 min of survival and got 25 vitus, maybe im wrong or was a bad run not sure will confirm in some days

 

So resuming, for a player like me, who have 8.5k hours of dota2, 2000 matches of broodmother being top 1 of dotabuff for months, who not care much repeat the same actions for hours, i have no problem sometimes gets boring you are right, maybe DE need to change rewards from some trash mission with slow rotations, like defense (oh yes people love defense, but excavation are faster, interception are faster, and acually survival are faster in long runs)

What i agree with you: about the endgame its really poor, and i super agree with you about how enemies climb up in arbitration, i cant remember numbers exactly but 90 mins of arbitration survival are lvl 170 and how random you can die (yesterday i died in 30 min of disruption rotation 10 as hildryn with 5.5k shield, literally one shot super random from a corpus nullifier i think or whatever common enemy)

So yes i agree, they need change these one random shoot where you take 10k damage for no reason, and actually thinking a bit deep playing for example 2 hours kuva (my peak was 2.30 hours survival kuva as nekros lvl 0 and atterax lvl 0, what a meme) i found funny and sad at the same time rewards on 20 hours of the game, bundle of 5k credits or whatever else, i mean DE im playing your videogame for 2 hours nonstop give me C rewards everytime or actually give me something special endgame arcanas something special worth to play 2 hours a survival. Special rewards for special players, and in that case i agree about NRG playing 2 hours with 5% drop (im talking about """new content arcanas with super powers""") need to be choosen by me and not a drop like: if i want an R3 Energize v2 need to play 30 hours of survival, 2 hours each, so in that situation i think "hey actually this arcana is pretty good works great for my banshee dps, and actually makes my banshee more viable to play!"

 

I dont know its my idea, warframe is easy for me, requires time, but its a really easy game, when i start warframe i said "hey this is a game for 10 minutes, you do whatever content in game in 10 minutes) and i was not wrong you can do a tridolon in 9 min, you can do a profit taker in 5 min, we are playing literally the game of 10 minutes so, maybe this is why the game say "hey i will not play an hour of survival" because from start the idea of the game is 10 min

PD: Average of dota2 match is 30-40 min, want a deep comment of dota, you see people spamming the same meta heroe for 3 months, doing the same thing, playing the same way same items, doing almost the same clicks pressing the same keys

Why dota still super popular after all of this?, because when you start to play dota you understenad the game its really hard and you understeand the game its 40min, no surprise, nobody crying, you are going to play dota, prepare your 40 minutes of stress

My secret about warframe: Play all the content, you not have khora, octavia and nidus. Do 30 min today of nidus farm, then jump to syndicates, then to fortuna. go sleep repeat. when you have nidus fortuna and syndcates, change, every time change your objetive

When you have everything like my case, the only objetive you have is: get every single riven in meta or weapons you like with godlike stats with max stats

oh god was pretty long comment, this is my perspective i not take numbers like you because NRG are random, can be easy or hard, maybe im lucky but i felt the entire game was quick and easy, or maybe i just had fun doing these missions

After my kuva farm and rerolled all my rivens, only content i will do maybe will be hunts and long arbitration, this is why i want a pvp, but like i said on top nobody like pvp

 

cheers

Let me state this in a more palatable form, because you seem to be willing to write but not to read.

1) "I play it this way, so it is good" is a fallacious argument.  You can passively play any game and never finish the content.  There are people who played Fallout 3/4 passively and took months to get to the ending, that didn't make the games better.

2) If you have to skip out of content, where 30 minutes represents 1 or 2 chances to get a desired drop at less than a 30% rate then you're going to be grinding the thing for a long time.  If it's mandatory content, and the community never embraces it (try a random group getting to C rewards on salvages or SO/ESO), then the multiplayer balanced nature of the game mode is going to make a suddenly single player experience bad.  That spawn rate going down but efficiency earnings not going up means without a nuke frame your run is suddenly impossible.  Cheese required to play.

3) I quote percentages because a pure RNG loot system is entirely driven by them.  If that's a problem to understand then please leave the discussion.  I say this because you can't add understanding, only feelings.  It's nothing personal, but statistically there's a person out there who ran eidolons 300+ times and still doesn't have 10 of the platinum arcanes (right here), despite a 5% drop chance meaning that on average they should have 15 of the things.  There's also someone out there who ran this 50 times and has all the platinum arcanes.  RNG is difficult like that.

 

4) Citing that you've played thousands of hours of other games without burn-out is interesting.  There are people out there who love all of Adam Sandler's comedies too.  Personally I hate everything after Big Daddy, because it's pretty much the same schtick.  This is taste and investment of time.  It could also be Stockholm's syndrome.  Either way, invalid in discussing rewards.

5) Warframe drop rates are already silly low for things.  I cannot speak to DE's stated goals, but mathematically this is because they want players playing because it introduces the possibility to spend money and create community content for new players.  I've always focused on full percentage drops, but let's look at others.  The mod Shock Collar has a 0.06% chance of dropping from an enemy that seems to spawn at best once every 2-5 minutes solo and grinding the temple of profit.   Let's agree that 1% of players get it on average after 17 drops, or 1.42 hours of grinding.  That's pretty nutty, but the real nuttiness is that 50% of players have the drop after 1155 runs, or 96.25 hours of grind.  If that's your idea of a reasonable reward schedule then you real need to get out more.  Bite is even rarer at 0.01%, and drops from Kubrow derrivatives.  If your mission provides about 10 Kubrow and only takes 5 minutes (estimating because more Kubrow=longer missions), 50% of players will have bite after killing 6932 Kubrow derrivatives or 57.77 hours on one tile set.  Six years in and I've gotten the mod a grand total of once.  Again, if you support this level of grind then there's no discussion to be had, as we won't ever agree on this being a reasonable response.

6) Why do I suggest other rewards for Arbitration?  You don't seem to get this, but not everybody wants to farm toroids.  Some people hating one shotting level 40 enemies, and then 30 seconds later level 81s spawn in and start one-shotting you after taking a full clip to the face...or having Raknoids pop in who get the first shot free due to spawning invincibility that means them showing up is a penalty.  Likewise, tooling around an open world with one area to camp out in seems backwards to say the least.  You give an alternative path to get rewards, and people can choose what they want to do.  This changes a force grind into a choice, making it more palatable without actually removing the grind.  Just because you did all that grinding like a good little bot doesn't mean other players should have to.  Bot level farming should be something to despise, not defend.

-Edit- I don't mean this as an insult.  I farmed Toroids for hours too to get the syndicate standing, but that's because I'm an idiot.  I'd love to support others not having to do the same, knowing that 3 toroids in 35 minutes is less game and more wasting my time. -Edit-

 

 

7) The ability to trade with other people doesn't fix the error in drop rate.  Let's agree that the only way trade would be fair is if everything could be traded.  This means things like the Ignis Wraith could be traded (it's BP is tradeable, but the gun isn't, go figure).  This would mean that DE would have to balance, because people with tons of radiant and brilliant shards could trade them and you could buy focus school mastery (breaking the Eidolon grind for Arcanes).  DE doesn't do this, because it'd make the game entirely possible to win with money.  You argue that a few thousand platinum could buy power, and I don't disagree.  Selective power DE chooses to not put behind a grind wall.  Once you realize that, it's very hard to un-see the decisions being made on drop rates as a game extender to make less content go farther.

8 ) Atlas Prime.  This is a digression, but let's be real here.  You get a 7 day mod drop chance booster.  Introduce an endemic problem, acclimatize the user base to crappy drop rates, and when you want more money introduce a fix to the problem you created.  I'd love to see this some other way, but hundredths of a percentage drop chances are not fun.  Even 30% drop rates sometimes mean hours of grind (Wisp gave me 18 Chassis, 14 Neuroptics, 4 BPs, and one neuroptics over my first 37 runs).  This is framed as DE giving the prime pack purchasers a new freebie, but I don't trust them.  Imagine the next new mods coming out with Bite level drop chances (0.01%), on enemies like the Thumpers.  Somebody out there gets RNG luck, and demonstrates that it's amazing.  People find the drops to be garbage, so they buy the booster, and again, and again, until they get the drop a month later.  No matter how amazing the mod is, that's real money and time forced out of the player base.  DE should be better than that, but more importantly they should know we aren't stupid enough to fall into the trap.   Lord, I hope I'm right.  Please don't be another Boycott EA style failure because people are too weak willed to speak with their wallets.

9) Warframe currently has no endgame.  If you'd do a cursory inspection, you'd also find that it's a looter-shooter multi-player PvE experience as originally conceived and sold to backers.  Go check the initial request for backers.  Years after launch the Conclave was bolted on.  It started with a limited mod and weapon selection they manually balanced...and didn't get much further.  If you want PvP the game has to be balanced around it.  Warframe fundamentally is not.  If you've got any question about that consider the healer vs. DPS builds.  You can't have people with powers designed to kill hordes against one designed to heal and generate energy from hordes suddenly squaring off, so you rebalance and rework powers.  Horde shooter needs burnt down and rebuilt as a competitive sport, but the way to get that PvP power is still mired in PvE.  Please name me a game as buggy as Warframe, that spent years without a PvP system, which started PvP poorly and has therefore developed a stigma, that has somehow developed an endgame of PvP.  I can think of a grand total of none.  I can consider those that had PvP and PvE and considered the former endgame, but they were built from the ground up to consider that.  It's pretty delusional at this point to think PvP is ever going to be endgame, because DE killed that possibility by delivering a hot steaming pile of bugs to players with infinitely better competitive PvP experiences elsewhere.

 

 

Listen, I might be missing things here.  It seems like English isn't your first language, and some of that nuance is missing.  From what I can understand, you've walked into a PvE grind game out of PvP competitive things and seem to accept that these drop rates and the like are OK.  I don't agree, and fundamentally believe you are looking for a different experience.  I'd recommend Destiny, because the PvP there is reasonably good, with a stronger story component.  Please don't take this as an ask to leave, so much as a request that you stop trying to hammer Warframe into a mold it wasn't designed for and has never conformed to.

Let me suggest that there is no other game on the market that has been a beta for this long, and still is as a point of fact.  Warframe players deserve the best experience, and in-turn deserve to give DE their money in support of the game.  There are decisions happening right now which make that proposition void, by virtue of DE showing the players they can either spend money, have no life, both, or leave.  That kind of thing is toxic (Battlefield and EA anyone?).  Before anybody comments not SJW toxic, not Bully Hunters toxic, not even moderators with their own agenda toxic.  This is toxic such that the pursuit of profits will kill off any reason for people to spend money, leading to more monetization and systems that require it, leading to less willingness to spend, and so the loop propagates.  It would be sad to see this from Warframe, and this feedback is meant to point that out to DE.  

Maybe if somebody there actually cares, they'll read this and understand that their player base wants them to succeed, but to do so they've got to stop throwing up walls and pretending to listen while being oblivious to why players are frustrated.  I hope for the best, expect the worst, and after years just finally want DE to stop ignoring feedback.  Stop pretending that pages of forum posts mean nothing, until the player base is entirely hostile.  You invite that hostility by pretending to pay attention, and then not even altering things.  That's...frustrating, sad, and entirely indicative that the player base needs to stop spending money until you right the ship.

Warframe is great, but at this point the forums are useless screaming into the void.  It seems like Twitter and Youtube are more useful to get attention and answers.  How then do you expect anything but mob justice and outrage?  This is tangential, but feeds back to Arbitrations releasing with no community input.  140 characters isn't enough (yes, it's more now but that's not the point) to do anything but me a ****lord or suck up.  Neither are useful feedback.

Edited by master_of_destiny
Clarify point and make sure to define this was not meant as a personal insult. Minor grammar
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For a company that seems to pride themselves so highly on inclusiveness its truly a shock theres so many people here feeling left out. No, seriously DE, at this point the previous line might be the most important. The way you've been handling this seems to be in stark contrast to how family members describe the company being, "It's so laid back and friendly I'm having trouble getting comfortable." -Family Member Working for DE. That is not how your player base is feeling, I truly feel torn between knowing how well the company treats its employees but then how a lot of the players ive interacted with over the past week are currently feeling.

I'm really not trying to come off as dev bashy by any means, I'm trying to give an honest description of how I am feeling and possibly how others are feeling towards this update, because this has gone farther than content. This whole thing has pushed into some weird realm of dev v player for some reason which could realistically all be fixed by just talking to one another listening to eachothers sides/opinions and meeting in the middle. I realize its a big ask to get find a way to have constructive conversation where everyones going to feel that their side has been heard. We might be all coming off childish or hot headed and heck maybe we are but we care.

We want and need to see this game thrive, no one wants to settle for surviving. 

Have a happy hump day Tenno.

Edited by Raging_Jax
complete change of post tbh
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So when we are getting a next hotfix?

Preferably one that INCLUDES Wukong Deluxe skin fix that has been broken since Saint of Altra mainline and not fixed so far!

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This is the major problem with arbitrations, the drop table, as you can see in the screen shot, after 1 hour survival, I got 2x Swift momentum and 1x Seeding step ephemera.... to add to my collection of swift momentum and seeding step ephemera that already have.

Pleas DE, move these items to the arbiters shop, is baffling to get the same sh!t, over and over, with items that we need to get once.

 

6THKxlW.jpg

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One way to get a grip on hard questions is to posit the end results.

A large part of all the comments for as long as the forum has been available has been about all kinds of drop rates. Usually that it is too hard, takes too long or is "not rewarding enough".

But if one posits a solution that ALL drops got the same drop rate as 5X commons (that is everything would drop 5X more than the current common drops), what would that actually fix?

All it would do is change one frustration into another, the frustration that "some drops are just too hard to get" would became "I have already gathered everything (and it was so easy) and now I am seriously pissed because there is no end-game (DE doesn't care about me)". The only ones still playing the game after 6 months would be the ones that actually love the GAME, because all min-maxers, collectors and MR-rushers would have left. Which might be a good thing for the forum, but a bad one for the game (AND the so-called community).

The same applies to kuva, posit that you would get 10X as much from Taveuni etc. Soon everyone would be rolling in kuva, rolling their rivens, needing more rivens, rolling them, noticing that the 10X kuva increase shaved 90% off the riven values, so the only reason left to get and roll rivens would suddenly be that you are actually interested in tinkering around with different weapons. And in every mission you try that weapon out, you would play with three META-Tennos, all armed to the teeth with their "godly" riven-equipped weapons. Sounds like fun? For anyone?

And if you have a real life limiting the time you can play Warframe, rejoice! You actually have stuff that is important. And yes, you can't get everything anymore, because farming takes time (more than anything else). But again, posit that DE made it so much easier to get the "everything" that you could do it in one 2-hour session once a week (instead of a 2-hour session every day). How on earth would that make you any happier? Yes, you get the "everything", but you have lost all your reasons for playing more than 2 hours of Warframe a week (and how long will that last?).

Making Warframe easier drop-wise is not a solution, in fact it would probably add more and worse problems to the game. That doesn't mean that griping about drop rates etc. is wrong, or that we can enjoy short moments of pure rage when cracking the nth relic doesn't yet yield it's rare drop, or the nth run at Marduk doesn't yet yield Bullet Dance. But it is an integral part of the game, it makes Warframe what it is and making everything easier to get would destroy the thing you love (or at least like). Because Warframe isn't really about "getting stuff" or "having stuff", it is about playing the game.

Edited by Graavarg

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And now Big trash for 50 min 

Survival -Orokin 

More-lose.png

 

Other Surv  Aura Very Rare

Very-Rare.png

Edited by BDT_Flames
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