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Dr.Tursko

People are too quick to hate something new, IE Combat Discipline

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I liked it. A nice mod TBH if you dont want to play a DPS. I take it with any frame that can regenerate health.

The new arcanes and mods are really nice in general. Swift Momentum was a build changer for me, allowing me to exchange a combo duration mod for another extra damage one.

And A. Tanker its stupidly strong with rhino. Ridiculously strong.

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5 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm too slow to understand this. So you're trying to say CP is not doing much? What? 

I am saying a couple things:

1) 1 CP alone does not do very much. Pick any aura you want... it makes a negligible difference.

2) Owing to how armor scaling works, anything less than 100% armor reduction will not keep up with how armor scales in protracted endless missions. So for example, if you're doing long survival missions (hours worth). even 90% armor reduction won't do very much.

You can get a visual sense of the varying degrees CP contributes by plotting the enemy damage reduction as a function of armor with 0, 1, 2 and 3 CPs equipped.

Spoiler

CXXI2uz.jpg

Two takeaways from this plot:

  • 1 CP and to a lesser extent 2 CP are close to 0 CP in effect (especially 1 CP).
  • No matter if you have 1, 2 and 3 CPs equipped (or anything less than 100% armor reduction), enemy damage reduction is asymptotically converging to 100% for growing armor values.

With careful inspection, you can see regions between the curves where the gaps are initially smaller and growing, attaining a maximum difference and then reducing. Potting the absolute difference of the damage reduction reveals this behavior. Here is that plot

Spoiler

NPMepB2.jpg

So this plot tells you the absolute difference in damage reduction values from N CP vs 0 CP as a function of armor and it shows clearly that the difference is bounded and that the difference asymptotically converges to 0. So for example, 1 CP will make less than 10 percentage points (0.1) difference in enemy damage reduction versus 0 CP. So for example, at 359 armor, the enemy has damage reduction of about 54% with 0 CPs and 46% with 1 CPs... a grand total of 8 percentage points difference. This difference only decreases (i.e. < 0.08) with more armor. So for example, at 1000 armor, the enemy has 77% damage reduction with 0 CPs and 70% with 1 CP... which is 7 percentage points difference.

Now, if you look at the plot in terms of relative damage reduction or relative damage increase or some other relative measurement (e.g. relative difference), you will not see the above structure. It will not be apparent that damage reduction is asymptotically converging to 100% no matter how many CPs are equipped (when armor reduction < 100%) and that CP eventually doesn't help you very much. Here's what one of those plot looks like:

Spoiler

N3HN34B.jpg

So relatively, this looks amazing! It doesn't really reveal that enemy damage reduction is still approaching 100% and that you are actually dealing less damage with more armor. It doesn't even reveal those peaks in damage reduction difference either. The absolute difference in damage reduction paints the more pressing picture: If you play very long endless missions, you ought to have 100% damage reduction from CP, or it won't be very useful later on. I mean, it all depends how long you will play for... but the armor scales in such a way that you eventually will do very little damage whenever armor reduction < 100%.

Lastly, to demonstrate the difference between absolute and relative further, let's suppose after corrosive projection, you do 90% of your damage versus 45% of your damage without corrosive projection. This is a relative increase 100% damage! Now suppose after corrosive projection, you do 50% of your damage versus 25% of your damage without corrosive projection. This is also a 100% relative increase in damage! Same with you doing 2% damage with corrosive projection versus 1% without corrosive projection. Also 100% relative increase. They all have the same relative advantage. But they're clearly not the same... in absolute difference, they are 45 percentage points, 25 percentage points and 1 percentage point in difference. Guess which is better?

I'm not trying to say you should ignore relative measurements. I'm just pointing out that looking at only one can be misleading... in this case, relative damage increase is not revealing that you are actually still doing diminishing damage with more armor.

So protracted endless missions? You should have 100% armor reduction (depending how long you play!)... 4 CPs.

Solo endless mission? 1 CP doesn't do very much. Bring an armor stripping weapon and bring any aura you want.

 

 

Edited by nslay
Reword in places. Shift relative damage plot by 1 for correctness.
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I'd only use this aura on a Chroma to buff Vex armor's damage more easily or even on Garuda since she synergizes well with life loss mechanics. This is definitely a niche aura i wouldn't use on most frames but tbh not every aura has to be mandatory design wise.

Not healing companions is a dumb move though and should be changed.

Edited by 000l000

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On 2019-09-21 at 8:29 AM, nslay said:

[math]

that's very impressive, thank you

i've been looking for an excuse to drop CP, and this fits like a charm

EDIT: wow, simulacrum testing reflects this well

Edited by Gwyndolin-chan
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50 minutes ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

that's very impressive, thank you

i've been looking for an excuse to drop CP, and this fits like a charm

EDIT: wow, simulacrum testing reflects this well

Best way to think of solo CP is, "what if every enemy started with a single corrosive proc".

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People rarely like new things and in general people as a collective group are &*%$ stupid. If it cant be exploited in a solo manner its not going to be well received. Its a interesting mod for a organised well thought group which the common player of this game typically isn't. New things that cant be made into a easy feta meta addition it will be derided. 

Edited by AzureTerra

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On 2019-09-19 at 5:34 PM, Dr.Tursko said:

Oh my god.

Okay maybe this does have a really small use with Barruk then.

My baruuk usually has the highest kill count in most missions so I don't think so. 

Also getting tied to specific builds and frames makes it a niche, 

Nothing wrong with it being niche honestly, but the way things are, killing things is necessary, so a modifier that costs you the more you kill makes it disliked. 

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Using it with Nidus is actually pretty smart. I wonder if the damage gets transfered if hes linked to something. Does his passive trigger if he has it equipped?

I will say i absolutely adore Swift Momentum. Its opened up a mod slot allowing me to get rid of Drifting Contact and put another utility mod or a better status mod in place. Its absolutely nutty with Relentless Combination and the Vazarin focus school. 

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