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General_Durandal

Vauban 2.0

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EDIT-Just watched the stream of the Vauban rework.
It's not good.

Here are my ideas for Vauban.

~~~~~~

Passive: Scrap
Damaging 1% of an enemy's armor, drops scrap which you can pick up.
Each piece of Scrap increases Vauban's base armor by 2% but reduces base speed by 0.05%.
Stacks to 100, when at max stacks extra scrap stays on the ground till there is room for more.
(the base armor increase is effected by armor mods)

~~~~~~

Ability 1: Toolkit (a collection of exalted tools)
Tap to switch Tool, hold to use Tool.

Tool 1: De-constructor
Weapon Type: Machete
Appearance: Metal Cutting Saw
Damage: 100 Slash / 100 Puncture / 50 Impact
Effect: Every hit reduces target's armor by 1/2/3/4% (power strength)
Charge Attack: Launches a buzz-saw which embeds into the target hitting them multiple times.

Tool 2: Riveter
Weapon Type: Pistol
Appearance: Large Rivet Gun
Damage: 150 Puncture / 75 Impact / 0 Slash / 25 Electric
Effect: Launches large rivets which impale targets to the environment.
Cost: 1 Scrap per Rivet

Tool 3: Re-constructor
Weapon Type: Rifle
Appearance: Grid-Laser Launcher (shoots a grid of lasers that repairs damage, kinda like that gun Rocket Raccoon used in the 2nd GotG movie)
Effect: Shooting allies repairs their missing armor, or increases base armor when already max.
Cost: 2 Scarp per 2% armor repair/increase. (efficiency increases/reduces scrap cost, power increases/reduces armor%)

Augment: Augmentation
De-constructor now has life steal.
Riveter Rivets now explode after 3 seconds.
Re-constructor now effects Warframe health too.

~~~~~~

Ability 2: Repulser
Cost: 10 Scrap
Creates a devise that generates an energy field.
Enemies that touch the energy are flung with great force in the set direction.
Allies that bullet jump through it go a much greater distance at a great speed.

Augment: Repulsion
Shooting the energy field from the front deflects the projectile which can hit enemies.
(meaning enemy projectiles could hit other enemies)
Shooting the energy field from behind increases projectile flight speed and damage falloff range.

~~~~~~

Ability 3: Contraption
Creates a (Grineer-Rampart like) turret gun at his feet.
Cost: 50 Scrap
Damage: 25 Puncture / 20 Impact / 5 Slash
Fire-Rate: 20 Rounds per second

Augment: Engine
The Contraption now has wheels and can be driven.
Movement Speed: 5 Meters a second.
Sprinting Movement Speed: 10 Meters per second.
Enemies in it's path are dealt 250 impact damage,
and either ran-over (dealt another 100 impact damage ever second the Engine is in contact)
or knocked out of the way depending on the size of the enemy.

~~~~~~

Ability 4: Exalted Grenade Launcher
Tap Alt-Fire to switch Grenades.
Each grenade costs 5 scrap, or 20 energy if you have 0 scrap.
Sticks on contact, doesn't activate till enemies are near.
If lands on the environment, explodes when enemies get near.
If lands on/near an enemy, explodes instantly.
Doesn't Explode till Vauban is out of range.
Each Grenade lasts 3/6/9/12 seconds.
Grenade duration doesn't start till they are activated.

Grenade 1: Tesla
If lands on the environment, shocks nearby enemies.
Range: 10 meters
Damage: 250 Electric to up to 5 targets per second
Proc Chance: 25%
If land on an enemy, they are continuously shocked/stunned unable to do anything for the duration.
Damage: 100 Electric every second to the one target

Grenade 2: Shredder
Range: 10 meters
Damage 75 Slash / 75 Puncture / 100 Blast
Effect: Shreds enemy armor by 25% (power strength)

Grenade 3: Flashbang
Range: 10 meters
Damage 125 Impact / 125 Blast
Effect: Stuns/Blinds enemies for a few seconds, opening them to finishers.

Grenade 4: Vortex
Works just like Vortex, but with more range.

Augment: Rollnades
Grenades that land on the ground turn into tiny Rollers and seek enemies out.
Tesla Grenades now link with each-other, causing constant damage to all enemies in the beam.
Shredder Grenades now also impale enemies to the environment.
Flashbang Grenades now also create loud noises that get enemy attention and deafen them to other noises.
Vortex Grenades now also shreds enemy armor every second.

~~~~~~

Edited by General_Durandal
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interesting ideas, but Ive already seen on twitter (and here) that he is getting a rework already in progress.

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27 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

interesting ideas, but Ive already seen on twitter (and here) that he is getting a rework already in progress.

Thanks.

I hope it's a good rework.
The last one was, very disappointing.

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26 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Just watched the stream of the Vauban rework.
It's garbage.

Hard CC, armor strip, damage buff, and nuke are all bad, damn I wish they did better then

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30 minutes ago, Hyro1 said:

Hard CC, armor strip, damage buff, and nuke are all bad, damn I wish they did better then

Old Tesla: Deal X Electric damage to X enemies every second with a chance to stun. 
New Tesla: Less damage which is fine, more stun which is great, and now mobile. (it's mobility might become the new augment wasting a mod slot)

Old Mine Layer: Bad armor striping, okay CC, and some lol time.
New Mine Layer:
1st mine: lag prevented me hearing it properly.
2nd mine: Speed pad, only slightly more useful then bounce pad.
3rd mine: forgettable, because I don't remember. so it must not have been very good.
4th mine: AoE damage buff. (Roar?)

Old 3rd Bastille: it's Bastille.
New 3rd: Orbital laser... Why? Will it work indoors? If yes, why again?
Makes absolutely no sense for vauban to have it.

Old 4th Vortex: Good.
New 4th, Bastille and Vortex combined: Good as both combined, so good, but now with armor striping.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, General_Durandal said:

Old Tesla: Deal X Electric damage to X enemies every second with a chance to stun. 
New Tesla: Less damage which is fine, more stun which is great, and now mobile. (it's mobility might become the new augment wasting a mod slot)

Old Mine Layer: Bad armor striping, okay CC, and some lol time.
New Mine Layer:
1st mine: lag prevented me hearing it properly.
2nd mine: Speed pad, only slightly more useful then bounce pad.
3rd mine: forgettable, because I don't remember. so it must not have been very good.
4th mine: AoE damage buff. (Roar?)

Old 3rd Bastille: it's Bastille.
New 3rd: Orbital laser... Why? Will it work indoors? If yes, why again?
Makes absolutely no sense for vauban to have it.

Old 4th Vortex: Good.
New 4th, Bastille and Vortex combined: Good as both combined, so good, but now with armor striping.

1st mine is a mini tether, 3rd is another azima alt fire, also how is that garbage

Edited by Hyro1

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1 hour ago, Hyro1 said:

1st mine is a mini tether, 3rd is another azima alt fire, also how is that garbage

Last I checked Azima was bad, so ye, big G.

Bastille costing 100 now is going to be annoying.

Oh well, I mean, Limbo became good again after the fifth rework,
Vauban can too.

It's cool they made Vortex have an armor stripping effect like Augment I made for me Veboon's grenade launcher.

I'm more disappointed with this rework then I was with Limbo's first rework.
Original Limbo I used all 4 powers regularly. The rework I only used 2 and 4.
Now I use all but 1. Banish is still bad, it should be hold-cast for an AoE, and should be cast able on anyone from anywhere. (rift, not-rift)

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13 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Last I checked Azima was bad, so ye, big G.

Bastille costing 100 now is going to be annoying.

Oh well, I mean, Limbo became good again after the fifth rework,
Vauban can too.

It's cool they made Vortex have an armor stripping effect like Augment I made for me Veboon's grenade launcher.

I'm more disappointed with this rework then I was with Limbo's first rework.
Original Limbo I used all 4 powers regularly. The rework I only used 2 and 4.
Now I use all but 1. Banish is still bad, it should be hold-cast for an AoE, and should be cast able on anyone from anywhere. (rift, not-rift)

Yes Azima is bad if you use alone, Vauban has the tether and Vortex combine those of you don't wanna wait for armor strip

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I kinda disagree. His new rework is pretty good without knowing the specifics but it's already much better than what he had previously. Especially as a starting point for us to criticize in game.

For clarification, no that mobility isn't going to be his augment. The tesla will be rollers by default. Also the charge time for tesla is now much faster meaning you can throw and charge them quickly.

For minelayer, his tether mine can be extremely useful given that it's a cheap toss that knocks enemies out. it primes them for his current passive to increase his damage. Also as stated in the devstream is can be used to drag enemies into Bastille. The speed pad is ok-ish, maybe a great lockdown for interception if it pushes enemies. Unlike the azima this will have some decent damage and a consistent puncture damage lowering enemy damage and providing some CC. If combined with his vortex, then that's some serious damage. given that you can have several of these out at once it should be a decent damage ability. Lastly the AoE buff is just nice in general. So what if it's a peaceable roar, we have plenty of 90% damage reduction with slightly different mechanics so this should be fine too.

While I'm on the fence about an orbital strike, It makes more sense than a solar beam coming from a wisp warframe. Plus it's a pretty sizable area. It will scale with enemy levels and may be even better if it benefits from his passive. Plus you're complaining about getting a free ability? Vortex and Bastille combined to make room for another ability it's literally a 100% upgrade. Also yes it does work indoors.
That being said I'm going to turn around and be a hypocrite for the sake of legitimate critisizm, Orbital Strike is a bit underwhelming. It was used against lvl 200 NORMAL butchers, not corrupted or even belonging to a core. Vanilla butchers. It did about half their health. If it scaled with levels then surely a lvl 200 butcher, being the weakest of the grineer faction, would be obliterated with a 130% STR orbital strike. I could mop the floor with those exact butchers with one or two strikes from any melee weapon. Giving it a multiplicative damage synergy with tesla, vortex, or mine layer would be preferable. Adding fire, radiation, or puncture damage would also be pretty welcome because it's only flat damage. 

With Bastille and vortex, yes it costs more energy but that's because it's both abilities with added functionality. You have a much longer cc and armor strip, then even after all that it turns into a vortex upon expiration. That's not counting the fact that allies gain a special benefit while standing in Bastille which I'm almost positive will be some form of damage reduction given the ability's name and function. So not only did the two combine, but it has extra benefits. Even if it isn't damage reduction everything shown is a welcome change.

By no means is it perfect, but with some tweaks the stats could make Vauban could see a dramatic rise in popularity. We haven't been filled in on what the augments will be either.

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2 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

snip

Any setup will be liked by some, disliked by others, for various reason.

An exalted K-Drive with guns would have been way cooler then anything they added.

Tether is meh since any warframe can use the Arcane that makes slam attacks do the same thing.
Why would you want to pull enemies into your Bastille? It's meant to keep enemies out of the area, not pull them in.
I main Repelling Bastille with minimum power strength, so the most enemies that touches it go flying.
Speed pad is better then bounce pad for sure, but not nearly as fun.
I don't use Vauban for power strength, so any damage dealing abilities are a waste of utility.

Vauban is just getting on the pile of "needs everything" to be good frames.
I love the warframes that you can build differently,
like Speedva, min strength to speed enemies up, Slowva max strength to slow them down,
or how a Tank Frost, aka Frank, can min duration with no consequence to the build.

If you play Vauban for damage output, then you are playing Vauban wrong.
Your guns will always be able to do more damage then anything Vauban old, or new could/can do.

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8 hours ago, General_Durandal said:

Any setup will be liked by some, disliked by others, for various reason.

Sure yeah everything will have an audience. But I'm not very biased when it comes to warframe reworks. I say what's bad and what's good, comparing the current to what we had previously, then say how it could be better for the warframe's theme and synergy.

I absolutely hate playing Vauban as CC isn't really my thing. It stands to reason that yes DMG Vauban currently is not the way to play. But when the META of the came changes to favor damage over CC, then Vauban loses his uses and must adapt to the setting, hence why he was given a damage ability in orbital strike. It's not even that bad because it still is a damage ability that works with his kit and can't be effective unless enemies go to you, defense or survival, like where Vauban shined previously.

An exalted k drive? That's not really vauban's style and it would never be a practical ability. DE even said they don't want to give you guns on your K-Drive so that idea is dead before it could even stand. I'm not saying there aren't abilities aI would have likes to see more than an orbital strike but at the end of the day that's what he's getting. He isn't just a CC warframe anymore, that style is dead. Even the biggest vauban player of the world has said that he needs to have some form of damage or support. He got both without losing anything important. Our biggest loss was the shred mine but we got armor stripping in bastille now.

Also I don't mean to sound rude, but it doesn't sound like you know too much about Vauban and how to play him or what his overall theme is meant to be. Sure everyone can build their own way but from what it sounds like you don't care much about him and how he can be built. He has plenty of different builds as it stands now, including power STR ones. But given what you've said about Vauban i just sense a lack of care on your end for what happens to the warframe.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

Vauban as CC isn't really my thing

Then play a different warframe.

14 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

He has plenty of different builds as it stands now, including power STR ones

Power strength only,
With Tesla increases damage, (useless)
With Mine Layer it effects damage and armor % striping, (armor striping isn't needed when we have weapons that can strip 100% armor in a few hits)
With Bastille it effects damage, and number of enemies held at one time, (Repelling Bastille will then yeet other enemies after the max)
With Vortex is only effects damage. (which isn't needed since you can just Punch-through Shotgun the tiny ball of enemiesm killing them all in one shot)

Power Strength is not needed on Vauban,
making Power Donation a Great Aura Mod for Vauban. (-30 to my power strength to give everyone in my team +30 power strength)
Hey, my Rhino ally's Roar is now 30% stronger, meaning more damage for everyone.

Edited by General_Durandal

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2 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Then play a different warframe.

I do play a different warframe. I mistyped that sorry.   "I hate playing vauban, as CC isn't my thing"   I don't like playing CC warframes. That's why I play banshee and nezha.

3 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Then play a different warframe.

Power Strength is not needed on Vauban

It isn't needed. Neither is repelling bastille or your build. "Power strength isn't good" is probably the word you're looking for but that's an opinion. It's really good if you know how to not die. Sure you don't need armor stripping if you've got the weapons but at the same time. if you don't need armor stripping why is it such a sought after form of CC? If you have the ability to armor strip without mods, it means you don't have to build weapons for that. It's not everyone's thing because of the work you have to do, but it has undeniably better damage that way.

There are benefits to playing with and without it. It's playstyle, preference, and skill level. Many people say if you want to run high lvl with banshee you need quick thinking, yet high skilled banshee players such as Quiet Shy don't use it. Being amazing with a warframe opens up different build options and playstyles. Another example is the channeling exalted blade. Crazy and terrible on paper but Joey Zero makes it work because he knows the ins and out of warframe instead of thinking of everything as a rule.

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On 2019-10-04 at 8:56 PM, General_Durandal said:

lag prevented me hearing it properly.

200.gif

 

 

Discussion is fine, but this entire topic is like the OP's Vauban rework assessment.

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4 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

That's why I play banshee and nezha.

Great choices.

7 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

"Power strength isn't good" is probably the word you're looking for but that's an opinion.

It's not an opinion,
(a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.)
(the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.)
(an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.)
it's true fact.
Vauban's powers don't need Power Strength to function as they are meant to function.
(unless you want the armor striping mine thing, which is greatly out-shined by any melee with impact procs like Sarpa)
You can freely use things that give -Power Strength with no disadvantages to his kit.

You want Duration and Range with Vauban, the best Range mod gives -60% Power Strength with +90% Power Range.
If Vauban needs power strength now, then that is 90 less range.

Please tell me a Vauban build that benefits from high power strength? (current Vauban)

~

14 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Discussion is fine, but this entire topic is like the OP's Vauban rework assessment.

I main Vauban, but please, explain how him needing power strength now is a good thing?

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5 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

how him needing power strength now is a good thing?

Multi-Warframe usage bad habits.

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1 minute ago, General_Durandal said:

Great choices.

It's not an opinion,
(a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.)
(the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.)
(an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.)
it's true fact.

I main Vauban, but please, explain how him needing power strength now is a good thing?

1. Not relevant

2. yes, it is an opinion. You obviously like repelling bastille but that's not his only option. His shred build also has value but you don't use or care for it obviously. Here's something, shred with vortex as of current can shred any and all enemies inside that vortex. Yet, nyx has seeking bolts stripping armor off 6 enemies. Vauban can strip upwards of 20 enemies at once as long as they're in his ability. How is that not value? It's true again that you could mod impact sarpa or corrosive, but if you don't need to cut your damage for armor stripping, why cut your damage? it's a matter of you not wanting to put in a little bit more effort to strip armor.

3. I never, ever said he needed it, or that he that it's only useful now. It was always helpful.

Your play style limits the amount of abilities you can use in a mission. Yes you benefit your team, but at the same time your hampering your own abilities by taking away shred. Some people may also prefer for you to catch enemies instead of repelling them away. That's not a problem, it's just your playstyle. What I'm saying is you've grown so attached to your style that you refuse to recognize other playstyles. Kind of like how Quiet Shy refuses to ever use sound quake builds. You're purposefully limiting yourself.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

Please tell me a Vauban build that benefits from high power strength? (current Vauban)

more power strength on Vauban means more enemies to capture in Bastille...

Edited by Xico.xide
Wrong quote :p

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3 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

2. yes, it is an opinion. You obviously like repelling bastille but that's not his only option. His shred build also has value but you don't use or care for it obviously. Here's something, shred with vortex as of current can shred any and all enemies inside that vortex. Yet, nyx has seeking bolts stripping armor off 6 enemies. Vauban can strip upwards of 20 enemies at once as long as they're in his ability. How is that not value? It's true again that you could mod impact sarpa or corrosive, but if you don't need to cut your damage for armor stripping, why cut your damage? it's a matter of you not wanting to put in a little bit more effort to strip armor.

You can also put down a Vortex, Sarpa them a few times, then shotgun them.

Sarpa has 100% impact proc chance, put on Shattering Impact and you can Shred a Doma's armor in a few seconds,
since it shoots 5-10 pellets per shot, and each one reduces armor by a flat amount.
-6 armor for each pellet, 30-60 armor each shot, multiple shots per second.
A Doma has between 281.2, and 553.75, level 30-50 in bounties. 3,857.91, armor at level 165.
% armor striping can be faster at higher levels, but in the base game you won't encounter level 165 Domas.
(well, unless the Sortie's third mission is in the Plains of Eidolon, then they with be around level 80-100)

But yeah, the shred mine can be pretty good, it can even be great, but you can't max range if you want any strength.

~

3 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

3. I never, ever said he needed it, or that he that it's only useful now. It was always helpful.

I never said you said that.

21 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Your play style limits the amount of abilities you can use in a mission. Yes you benefit your team, but at the same time your hampering your own abilities by taking away shred. Some people may also prefer for you to catch enemies instead of repelling them away. That's not a problem, it's just your playstyle. What I'm saying is you've grown so attached to your style that you refuse to recognize other playstyles. Kind of like how Quiet Shy refuses to ever use sound quake builds. You're purposefully limiting yourself.

I've used other play styles suggested before. They aren't very good.
Shred mine is good, but not as good as max range vortex with Shattering Sarpa and a Strun Wraith with punch-through.

The only thing i'm really mad about is Bastille and Vortex not being separate things, usable at separate times,
and Bastille now costing 100 energy when I don't have room for good efficiency and energy.

The Tesla rollers are pretty much the only thing I like about the rework.
Bastille and Vortex getting armor stripping is cool. 
(if you didn't read my vauban rework, the vortex aug has armor striping, and Bastille is completely missing,)
(so stop saying i'm "attached", to my play style, i'm not, it's just the best one that I've used)

When the rework comes, I can still use my same setup, it will just cost more energy,
and I can't have Bastilles and Vortexs out in different places at different times, which will hurt efficiency.
(if the made it tap to cast Bastille, Hold to cast Vortex, then that would fix that)

Literally anything would be better then Orbital Strike. (not as cool though)
But it's coming no matter what anyone says,
we'll see if the damage is worth using, if it's not, then back to what i'm using now.

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5 minutes ago, General_Durandal said:

I've used other play styles suggested before. They aren't very good

... maybe ^this^ is suggesting you to find a build of your own with what exists now...

Also, you can't really compare anything that Vauban has now with its upcoming rework, because the only thing you have is a light showcase of it on a devstream... Which is shown against lvl20 enemies in Simulacrum.

Theories are fine, but you can't really decide anything until it comes out and you try it out yourself.

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4 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

Also, you can't really compare anything that Vauban has now with its upcoming rework, because the only thing you have is a light showcase of it on a devstream... Which is shown against lvl20 enemies in Simulacrum.

Actually they were level 200

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20 minutes ago, Xico.xide said:

more power strength on Vauban means more enemies to capture in Bastille...

That is true.
But is it really that helpful?
You could Bastille enemies, then shoot them one at a time,
or you can Vortex enemies, and shoot them all in one Shotgun shot.

With max range, and Repelling, you can keep enemies out of some area(s), and pull them into others.
Max range 18 meter Vortex is great in a crowd, one cast, and one shot, room of enemies is dead.

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