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Avlaen

Current melee is still blegh.

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I used to be a primarily melee player, nowadays i barely use it because of the new "melee" and so far despite a lot of feedback and requests for something like a toggle, ive seen no real mention from the devs about responding to the feedback, and its no longer a case of its new just get used to it.

Why does RMB aim my gun when im trying to do a combo? why does auto block mess up my inputs? why cant i Glide with a melee weapon? All this would be solved by having the current system AND the ability to hold F to equip our melee weapon like before.

Warframes gone from one of my favourite games to something i play just to not miss out on nightwaves, because my favourite part of the game has been made an awkward mess for a long time now. Especially if its a frame like valkyr

Edited by Avlaen
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4 minutes ago, Avlaen said:

valkyr

Her 4 literally became unusable if you had melee auto aim turned off. Couldn't hit the broadside of a battleship from the inside.

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They are aware of it and likely will change it with melee 3.0 when it does eventually come out.

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"eventually" isnt good enough its been a problem for too long as it is. Especially with all the feedback, and none of it is being acted on? And giving us a "legacy" toggle would be a easy solution untill melee is fixed

Edited by Avlaen
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7 minutes ago, Avlaen said:

And giving us a "legacy" toggle would be a easy solution untill melee is fixed

This is actually an extremely difficult solution. A lot was changed for the current melee system (for example the swapping speed from gunning to melee). DE can't just flip a switch and revert that back. And also if DE gives legacy switches for everything, then there will never be progress...

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Melee is not in a good state right now, no, but that's sort of what happens if DE plans something and then draws the deployment out over time. The devs always had a nasty habit of getting distracted with new shiny trends and ideas, and abandoning previous content. Not sure what the reason is, but my guess would be a mix of overenthusiasm, misallocation of resources and a bit of greed, since it's a lot easier to hype up and subsequently monetize something "totally new and revolutionary!" instead of let's say a rework to a basic game mechanic.

That's not something new with DE, but leaving a basic game mechanic broken and halfway finished is up there when it comes to the stains in their development history.

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"Melee 1.0 + stances" is what we have, in an attempt to leave us with a Melee system instead of disabling it completely.

 

... Funny thing though, its exactly what people asked for. "Quick Melee with stances plz!!" like I saw in hundreds of different topics... So~, learn to live with it in peace, until 3.0 comes out.

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2 minutes ago, Uhkretor said:

"Melee 1.0 + stances" is what we have, in an attempt to leave us with a Melee system instead of disabling it completely.

 

... Funny thing though, its exactly what people asked for. "Quick Melee with stances plz!!" like I saw in hundreds of different topics... So~, learn to live with it in peace, until 3.0 comes out.

While I am not having much issue with melee as I dont play much anyways too. I can say that the lack of melee updates are close to not being updated at all. Last big melee change was months ago when they went to what it is now.  It is slow, very slow. The thing is melee is a big part of warframe combat and just form seeing a f ew feedback topics I can say taht the community is not satisfied with eeh system and they need to put that a priority till its done, otherwise we have a system thats like a half fried french fry and then forzen, so melee development is currently forzen.

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Because it's still unfinished. There isn't any reason whatsoever for them to take any feedback along the lines of "change it back" if they still intend on finishing the update.

Although despite anything regarding it's current state it's still unironically the strongest class of weapons we have.

But really the biggest issue with the whole "melee 3.0" update is that they've taken to calling the last update 2.999... which is horribly misleading since the rest of the changes we're expecting account for far more work and changes than anything they've done so far. Combo counter rework, charge attack rework, channeling rework (maybe), melee range rework, retooling and rebalancing of every mod, rebalancing melee Riven disposition (rip Connor), and adjusting every single stance to work with the new stance system. All of this is what the remainder of 3.0 was supposed to be.

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25 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

This is actually an extremely difficult solution. A lot was changed for the current melee system (for example the swapping speed from gunning to melee). DE can't just flip a switch and revert that back. And also if DE gives legacy switches for everything, then there will never be progress...

Currently id rather have no progress than "this" and im sure having an option to hold F to hard equip a melee weapon would be easy to do... seeing as you allready have that mechanicaly if you dont equip a primary or secondary...

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Just now, Lazarow said:

the community is not satisfied with eeh system

The community is never satisfied with anything they ask...

... THIS is the result of the "Quick Melee with stances plz!!" that has been going on until DE decided to start with Melee 3.0...

"Rebirth of Charge Attacks" after DE specifically said that they served no purpose, and now this?

... Melee 3.0, apparently, is supposed to not have channeling because it breaks the system... Charge attacks are, apparently, going to be replaced by the heavy strikes (go figure)... Once that goes live for everything, people will still complain because they want the new stuff while keeping the old stuff -at the same time- because they don't want to adapt to the new stuff...

... Well, the new stuff is what we have now -for the moment-. The more people dwell on this, the more it becomes apparent that "Quick Melee with stances plz!!" was never going to work in the first place. THIS is the proof we have of it.

Do I expect full manual control of Melee again? No, because pressing a button to bring Melee out immediately makes perfect sense... Its mindless, like the auto-block, takes away the needed manual control... Which is -exactly- that kind of control that we won't get back.

Honestly, I would've preferred that Quick Melee was gone, instead of all the manual control we had. In fact, I said it several times that Quick Melee serves no purpose, but people had to ask Quick Melee to become relevant again, so DE did it...

... "There you go, Melee 2.9997 for everyone until we have 3.0 ready for release" and we get Melee 1.0 + stances which was broken before, back when there were no Stances, in the first place...

 

... Once 3.0 comes out, I won't need stances. I'm not using stances on purpose, and I'm having better results without them... Which is -exactly- how Melee 1.0 was behaving before 2.0 went live, go figure... So, unless stances change, they're not worth being used. Not even for mod capacity bonus.

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41 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Melee is not in a good state right now, no, but that's sort of what happens if DE plans something and then draws the deployment out over time. The devs always had a nasty habit of getting distracted with new shiny trends and ideas, and abandoning previous content. Not sure what the reason is, but my guess would be a mix of overenthusiasm, misallocation of resources and a bit of greed, since it's a lot easier to hype up and subsequently monetize something "totally new and revolutionary!" instead of let's say a rework to a basic game mechanic.

That's not something new with DE, but leaving a basic game mechanic broken and halfway finished is up there when it comes to the stains in their development history.

This is a little bit similar like eating. If you eat a meal a day you may will eat that meal another day but then you wishing for different ones. Like players can feel boredom in the game it goes the same to dev part and no matter how strong their wills and mentality to finish the goal if they feel bored they won't work on it. In the developement it needs time to time try new things out to revitalize your focus. Their mistake in this part is they are focusing on multiple tasks and they cannot deliver them in time or we can say they are underestimated the amount of time this system needs work on to be done right so they are now trying to do revitlize themelves and make some profit then going back and finish it.

DE is a team which famously skipping to deliver things in line because they cannot promise or estimate what things will be done. This is why they say when it is done or as devs on avarege say. They did some surprise additions which was not planned or we did not knew about it that is a tactic to make the community interested in it.

 

As on topic - My opinion on the current melee is there are good ideas but some ideas are not welcomed or poorly implemented. I mean on this the blocking or the forced combos but if you consider the combo system was more complex than the quick melee and they put more work into it then it is logical they are trying to force, but the animations on classes are different and some may have good potential but the majority is just bad because breaks the flow. This cannot be their plan and I think they will revisit it sooner or later but the chances this will happen in the next year is strong, because they need to deliver now 2-3 major content including the empyrean. I am currently skipping those item classes which was my favs in the quick melee and tries to use which is still usable. I think the auto block implementation was a direct way to slow down the melee and instead they gave the ability to block more incoming damage. 

Edited by Scorpiokon
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For a long time i didn't have any problems with melee but lately i noticed that one handed swords can't get in range to hit the enemy after the enemy is stunned. Which is pretty #*!%ing terrible.

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Don't forget that all those mods like Electromagnetic Shielding that require you to block manually are now broken and unusable. Auto-block was the dumbest thing DE put into the new melee re-work, imo. Only there for lazy people, or those with no skill at the game.

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9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

Don't forget that all those mods like Electromagnetic Shielding that require you to block manually are now broken and unusable. Auto-block was the dumbest thing DE put into the new melee re-work, imo. Only there for lazy people, or those with no skill at the game.

You mean you dont think being forced to stop your zenistar disc throw to block a bullet is good gameplay? (while also failing to block that scorpion grapple)

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It would be so easy to fix the current melee.

1 - When you have a melee weapon out your aim button becomes your block button. Remove auto block because it's no longer necessary. This will also allow you to glide with a melee weapon again.

2 - Switch all weapons primary combo to be a quick looping combo to appease the lazy players. Change all other combos to match Wukongs Iron Staff combo inputs for ease of use.

3 - Remove channeling and replace with heavy attack combos. Holding the melee button will initiate the heavy attack combo so each press after the first will be a heavy attack until the combo finishes or a second or two without pressing the button resets it back to quick attacks. This will save everyone having to bind another key for heavy attacks.

4 - Rework slide attacks to tone them down significantly. Yes, melee will finally require actual thought and not just spamming a macro, whoa!

5 - Increase starting combo duration to six seconds. Three seconds base just doesn't cut it. 

I honestly think with these changes melee would be enjoyable for everyone. Well except maybe slide attack spammers but I honestly think the game would be healthier without that aspect of melee in the game.

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1 hour ago, VanosPrime said:

4 - Rework slide attacks to tone them down significantly. Yes, melee will finally require actual thought and not just spamming a macro, whoa!

youre being dillusional macro spamming will always be a part of these types of games<< the only way to not have maco spamming is to get rid of all programmable mouse in existence.

melee as it is now is plain terrible, just like everything else in the game that was good or fun to do DE finds ways to make it bad. yeah someone has to say it. the worst thing melee 2.0 had was wall attacks and they as a big reputable team of devs couldn't get it fixed for the life of the game, do you think they can fix a bigger more complex problem like this?

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considering how long it's been since Melee 3.0 was even mentioned, I'm starting to think it's being delayed and forgotten about. I would have thought by now another minor tweak would have been added at the very least.. don't get me wrong, I don't want them to rush it, but I can't remember the last time we had to look forward to something melee related, aside from when they added that first part with auto-weapon switching.

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They actually did respond to feedback, they added the LMB option and then told people to just not equip guns.

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2 hours ago, ranks21 said:

youre being dillusional macro spamming will always be a part of these types of games<< the only way to not have maco spamming is to get rid of all programmable mouse in existence.

melee as it is now is plain terrible, just like everything else in the game that was good or fun to do DE finds ways to make it bad. yeah someone has to say it. the worst thing melee 2.0 had was wall attacks and they as a big reputable team of devs couldn't get it fixed for the life of the game, do you think they can fix a bigger more complex problem like this?

Well it's not really the macro spamming that's the big issue in my original statement. That's not the big issue I want DE to fix, it's slide attacks being so broken and mindless. But I guess you're right, you can probably macro in complete combos and just hold down a button, nothing really stopping players from doing so currently. 

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5 minutes ago, VanosPrime said:

Well it's not really the macro spamming that's the big issue in my original statement. That's not the big issue I want DE to fix, it's slide attacks being so broken and mindless. But I guess you're right, you can probably macro in complete combos and just hold down a button, nothing really stopping players from doing so currently. 

Haha, imagine if you'd get staggered when your melee hits a wall during a slide attack. Even with as little a stagger change as 10%, people would eventually become a lot more mindful about where they spam their attacks.😋

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Melee 3.0 is still at least a year out of not outright cancelled screenshot this post. 

Edited by RadonRadish

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As a melee main I don’t get the problem? U can now use a gun and melee. Why doing need to aim glide with a melee? To block?

only 1 problem for a pure melee player is there auto blocking. Easy fix. Make it cost no energy and make it not stop u from doing other things.

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24 minutes ago, RadonRadish said:

Melee 3.0 is still at least a year out I not outright cancelled screenshot this post. 

Don't know if it's a year away but it is undeniable that DE handled the whole "melee 3.0" very, very poorly as it almost feels like it's an insult that every time they are asked about it we get replies of the caliber

melee 2,999

melee 2,999997

melee 2,99999something

This has been going on for quite a while that is almost a meme and not a good one (like how olo-lotus was supposed to be a temporary solution and we've been stuck with her for how long??). I mean, they could fill us in a devstream but we're lucky if we get one per month lately so I totally understand whoever is unhappy with current situation. I liked the idea of being able to switch between melee and gun on the fly but the cost of losing combo mode (and it was already terrible before) and melee glide is irritating and I'm being gentle. It was supposed to be a temporary situation and, at some point, I think someone at DE even said that the 2 melee phases were supposed to be a couple of months apart. Devs radio silence on the matter only exacerbates the issue even further both for players who want next phase and for those who want old system back.

Edited by Olphalarepth
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