DE, remove revives from Arbitrations

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, nslay dijo:

Aren't you glad your allies can accidentally pickup revive tokens and be debuffed, thus motivating them to revive you fast or die themselves? After all, shame on you for not being super knowledgeable about some bug in the game/map that caused your death... everyone knows not do that obscure thing you did, newbie! Even the nastiest of elitist players won't ignore being gimped and will revive you rather being stupidly prideful.

I always go out of my way to revive people on arbis.
But after you died 10 times before getting to rot C, like come on

[nslay]

Just now, Xerachiel said:

I always go out of my way to revive people on arbis.
But after you died 10 times before getting to rot C, like come on

Agreed. But DE must have put that debuff in there anticipating the worst of the worst players (which are thankfully rare in this game).

[Xerachiel]

Justo ahora, nslay dijo:

Agreed. But DE must have put that debuff in there anticipating the worst of the worst players (which are thankfully rare in this game).

They are not rare at all though?

The rare thing is when I get a game without one

[nslay]

1 minute ago, Xerachiel said:

They are not rare at all though?

The rare thing is when I get a game without one

Really? This community is one of the nicest. I don't run into toxic elitist players all that much. The debuff is probably meant for those types.

[FaithRose]

25 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

It's always good to give opinions, we are all bound to have different points of view 🙂

I think you are right with the random buffs.
While I've had a lot of fun with my friends (like three of us having suplementing frames buffed, Chroma, Nidus and Oberon for example, and being stupidly unkillable) they can make people go with the wrong frame for the mission.
I only choose the "wrong" frames when I go with my friends, like the other day I spent like 1:30 hour on a survival with Mirage of all things. But when I go with pugs, I will always use Oberon (with the augment) to try to keep them alive, or with a very defensive frame if its a defense.

I said in another comment, maybe if we just remove the revives on pugs and leave them on premades?

And for new players accesing everything part, I'll go with what I said in the OP.
It's really good to have something to work for as a new player.
I played a lot of MMOs (not saying I have all the right answers because of that, just that I've been a new player a LOT of times) and, to put an example, if I had straight access to the hardest content (like raids) then, why would I need to improve my builds or playstyle if they make them accesible to me?
And when you remove all the time it takes to understand the game (or even getting the items!), improve yourself and etc, you get to the wall a lot faster....and end up leaving, because you have nothing to do.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
I'm not saying new players should be hit with the GIT GUD stick right on, but they should have something to work for

Thank you for replying! I don understand what you are trying to say :)

Yeah Arbys are definitely something to work toward. When I did my first Arby I was super lost, even after reading guides, watching videos, and spending time questioning clanmates. Once I was dropped in, it's amazing how fast things amp up and how quickly all my "knowledge" went to the birds! I thought I was prepared, but even with all the pre-prep work, I found I had to develop my own style. Arby's are a huge learning curve even with it taking a while to get there and just gaining access doesn't grant success. I think the will to improve comes from those folks who face plant the first match and don't want that to happen again. You can't get the rewards if everyone is dead and if they want the rewards for going longer, they have to learn to build up for it. 

Also, some new players may rush the star chart and have no clan/friends to pre-warn them and go in blind thinking its "just another game mode". It is definitely harder on the regulars to have to revive the dead player, but the alternative is to end up a person down when they could be helping. And when I've seen happen more often than not, is someone in the pug party goes off the wall at the person who died instead of giving them ideas on how to stay alive, better builds they can use, or better ways to handle the map, and the like. That alone makes me think the Pugs need the revives even more XD

What if they created a "nightmare" mode for veterans (similar to nightmare on nodes) and it had greater rewards but no revives? Maybe it could have tiers so maybe tier one had 3 revives for the whole team, tier 2, only 2 revives, and tier 3, no revives. For an added challenge, modes can have negative debuffs (like low energy mode, etc). The rewards could be greater for the higher tiers but much harder to get. They could make it so only players who have say, 20 completed arbitrations can participate to try and cut down inexperienced players and whatnot.

[Xerachiel]

Justo ahora, nslay dijo:

Really? This community is one of the nicest. I don't run into toxic elitist players all that much. The debuff is probably meant for those types.

Oh i thought you were talking about people dying 10 times before rot C 😛
Those other ones are kinda rarer, but still a lot of them around! 
And my favourite ones are the ones that are super loud about their mastery rank, but then go to a ESO with a no range saryn or something, or are the first ones to die in arbis hah

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, FaithRose dijo:

Thank you for replying! I don understand what you are trying to say 🙂

Yeah Arbys are definitely something to work toward. When I did my first Arby I was super lost, even after reading guides, watching videos, and spending time questioning clanmates. Once I was dropped in, it's amazing how fast things amp up and how quickly all my "knowledge" went to the birds! I thought I was prepared, but even with all the pre-prep work, I found I had to develop my own style. Arby's are a huge learning curve even with it taking a while to get there and just gaining access doesn't grant success. I think the will to improve comes from those folks who face plant the first match and don't want that to happen again. You can't get the rewards if everyone is dead and if they want the rewards for going longer, they have to learn to build up for it. 

Also, some new players may rush the star chart and have no clan/friends to pre-warn them and go in blind thinking its "just another game mode". It is definitely harder on the regulars to have to revive the dead player, but the alternative is to end up a person down when they could be helping. And when I've seen happen more often than not, is someone in the pug party goes off the wall at the person who died instead of giving them ideas on how to stay alive, better builds they can use, or better ways to handle the map, and the like. That alone makes me think the Pugs need the revives even more XD

What if they created a "nightmare" mode for veterans (similar to nightmare on nodes) and it had greater rewards but no revives? Maybe it could have tiers so maybe tier one had 3 revives for the whole team, tier 2, only 2 revives, and tier 3, no revives. For an added challenge, modes can have negative debuffs (like low energy mode, etc). The rewards could be greater for the higher tiers but much harder to get. They could make it so only players who have say, 20 completed arbitrations can participate to try and cut down inexperienced players and whatnot.

I would agree with that "nightmare" mode you say, but no tiers. Just straight out no revives and higher lvl. 
Elite Arbitrations, like one guy was saying.
Random affixes, meh, I wouldn't be mad about them, but they can definitely make your frame not function properly (like a low energy mode, if you don't build for efficiency).
They could make them accesible to players who only have a certain amount of ranked items? But like, only the obtainable ones.
Perhaps a "has ranked all regular frames" kinda requirement?
That may give players a reason to go and get all frames besides just mastery levels

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

Oh i thought you were talking about people dying 10 times before rot C 😛
Those other ones are kinda rarer, but still a lot of them around! 
And my favourite ones are the ones that are super loud about their mastery rank, but then go to a ESO with a no range saryn or something, or are the first ones to die in arbis hah

Well, maybe they can incrementally reduce the debuff effect for players who die a lot? The more a player dies, the less the debuff should affect you and others. Then at that point, it really does become more of a choice.

I don't see too many deaths in arbitrations, though I haven't been doing them much lately. When the arbitration rework came out, I did an Excavation arbitration to 45 minutes with no deaths (13 extractors) from anyone. That's a pretty normal expeirence for me back when I was doing them more.

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, nslay dijo:

Well, maybe they can incrementally reduce the debuff effect for players who die a lot? The more a player dies, the less the debuff should affect you and others. Then at that point, it really does become more of a choice.

I don't see too many deaths in arbitrations, though I haven't been doing them much lately. When the arbitration rework came out, I did an Excavation arbitration to 45 minutes with no deaths (13 extractors) from anyone. That's a pretty normal expeirence for me back when I was doing them more.

Nah, I still think the punish should be for the one dying, not for the surviving ones.

I've had a LOT of deaths on arbis.
I'm not going to lie, I've also had a lot of awesome games with people engaging with the mode, asking for how long we staying and then staying for that amount of time and etc, but I had way more games with people just not caring about dying at all

[FaithRose]

14 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

I would agree with that "nightmare" mode you say, but no tiers. Just straight out no revives and higher lvl. 
Elite Arbitrations, like one guy was saying.
Random affixes, meh, I wouldn't be mad about them, but they can definitely make your frame not function properly (like a low energy mode, if you don't build for efficiency).
They could make them accesible to players who only have a certain amount of ranked items? But like, only the obtainable ones.
Perhaps a "has ranked all regular frames" kinda requirement?
That may give players a reason to go and get all frames besides just mastery levels

I just saw the suggestion for Elite Arbitration haha I hadn't at the time of my post pretty cool to see it suggested by another....maybe it might be something more folks would want. I only suggest tiers for those folks who still want the opportunity to revive in case of an accidental death, a bug (there are a lot of bugs that have gotten me killed as others have mentioned falling through the floor), or ping/internet issues.

And ye, the suggestion for debuffs was just to make it harder for those that really want to test themselves. They could see the debuff before going in and build accordingly maybe.

I'm not sure I'd want to be forced into having to use other frames though. I can't play Titania to save my life! Some folks love her, but she's at the bottom of my list XD Also there are folks who can just buy the frames from the cash shop and still go in inexperienced. For those that need/want to get the frame by playing, there is also the problem of RnG frames like Ivara, Khora, etc. I've seen MR 20+ folks still trying to get Khora. I figured having a requirement for experience with previous arbitrations would at least ensure the person has some idea of what it's like...maybe XD

Edited September 21, 2019 by FaithRose

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, FaithRose dijo:

I just saw the suggestion for Elite Arbitration haha I hadn't at the time of my post pretty cool to see it suggested by another....maybe it might be something more folks would want. I only suggest tiers for those folks who still want the opportunity to revive in case of an accidental death or bug (there are a lot of bugs that have gotten me killed as others have mentioned falling through the floor).

And ye, the suggestion for debuffs was just to make it harder for those that really want to test themselves. They could see the debuff before going in and build accordingly maybe.

I'm not sure I'd want to be forced into having to use other frames though. I can't play Titania to save my life! Some folks love her, but she's at the bottom of my list XD Also there are folks who can just buy the frames from the cash shop and still go in inexperienced. For those that need/want to get the frame by playing, there is also the problem of RnG frames like Ivara, Khora, etc. I've seen MR 20+ folks still trying to get Khora. I figured having a requirement for experience with previous arbitrations would at least ensure the person has some idea of what it's like...maybe XD

I farmed Khora for myself, then with my brother, then with a friend and then with two other friends.
Believe me, it is RNG, but it's not that crazy as some people like to believe.
(the same with Harrow and Nidus, I farmed then the same amount of times for me and then because my friends and brother don't like to farm alone hah. Well Nidus was one time less, since we got him at the same time with my brother :P)

And for the ranking frames part, you really need like what, 2/2 and a half regular sanctuary to rank a frame with no booster? Thats not much I think?

[FaithRose]

2 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

I farmed Khora for myself, then with my brother, then with a friend and then with two other friends.
Believe me, it is RNG, but it's not that crazy as some people like to believe.
(the same with Harrow and Nidus, I farmed then the same amount of times for me and then because my friends and brother don't like to farm alone hah. Well Nidus was one time less, since we got him at the same time with my brother :P)

And for the ranking frames part, you really need like what, 2/2 and a half regular sanctuary to rank a frame with no booster? Thats not much I think?

Oh man, you might be on the better side of the RnG tables. I had a fairly easy time with Khora and Ivara, but there were some folks who couldn't get the pieces they needed for weeks. I'd feel really bad if they missed out on the opportunity to play because RnG wasn't on their side (don't even get me started on Kavat DNA XD).

And ya, doesn't take long to level a frame if you have a "nuker" in your party for Sanctuary. Unfortunately, most nukers move to ESO for the focus. Also, there is the issue of frame slots. If a person cant put money into the game and isn't one for the market, they will be very selective with their frame slots. I was before I was able to finally purchase plat on one of those 75% off dealies.

I dunno. I guess I just figured if part of the issue is players going in unprepared, if they have to play it to get to the harder mode, you'd be less likely to run into the person dying 20 times in the first 5 minutes XD

[Xerachiel]

hace 2 minutos, FaithRose dijo:

Oh man, you might be on the better side of the RnG tables. I had a fairly easy time with Khora and Ivara, but there were some folks who couldn't get the pieces they needed for weeks. I'd feel really bad if they missed out on the opportunity to play because RnG wasn't on their side (don't even get me started on Kavat DNA XD).

And ya, doesn't take long to level a frame if you have a "nuker" in your party for Sanctuary. Unfortunately, most nukers move to ESO for the focus. Also, there is the issue of frame slots. If a person cant put money into the game and isn't one for the market, they will be very selective with their frame slots. I was before I was able to finally purchase plat on one of those 75% off dealies.

I dunno. I guess I just figured if part of the issue is players going in unprepared, if they have to play it to get to the harder mode, you'd be less likely to run into the person dying 20 times in the first 5 minutes XD

Well but even outside frame slots, if you really engage with the game you will want to rank that mastery up, so you will eventually get the frames and weapons.
If I have to be honest, the only money I've put in the game was for the 2018 tennocon virtual ticket, because I read about some Baro dude that had some good items on rotation, and he was going to have everything for the tennocon xD
Well and then for some cosmetics, but the only plat I got from money was the, iirc, 200p I got with the virtual ticket.
After that (I used it to get colour pallettes, don't judge me :P), I figured i had to trade (I was never the market kind of player) so I went to wf.market, made an account and just sold everything one plat cheaper than the cheapest offer and boom! I didn't have to deal with market crap (like people fighting over prices) and I had platinum!
So what I say is that making platinum for slots is not hard at all 🙂

[ArcticHelix]

4 hours ago, Xerachiel said:

You say that like it takes a lot of time to unlock every node.

And the focus is not that different from the title.
Revives in arbitrations are an example of DE catering to new players, wich is fine in itself (game needs new players all the time).
But the thing is...they only do things with that mentality.
When they introduced Fortuna, me and my friends had one of the more fun times playing, because the mobs scaled really fine and you had to actually play the game!
But then, they nerfed the hell out of it, because new players found it too hard....
Arbitrations, of all things, was advertised as something for experienced players...

When will you understand? NEW PLAYERS CANNOT GET TO THAT CONTENT RIGHT AWAY. So them catering to new players is for arbitrations is false. The vets of the game had the issue with the no revives. Don't say something that is not true and expect no correction. Arbitrations need the whole of the star chart. Including Lua and the Kuva fortress which guess what? NEED QUESTS TO BE UNLOCKED, and takes a bunch of time to get done. When arbitrations first came out i was not nearly done with the star chart, the game mode pushed me forward with motivation to finish the star chart and the archwing missions i had left to do. Its challenging especially with the new disruption addition since the drones can protect the demolyst.

[Xerachiel]

hace 1 minuto, PrinceMeliodas dijo:

When will you understand? NEW PLAYERS CANNOT GET TO THAT CONTENT RIGHT AWAY. So them catering to new players is for arbitrations is false. The vets of the game had the issue with the no revives. Don't say something that is not true and expect no correction. Arbitrations need the whole of the star chart. Including Lua and the Kuva fortress which guess what? NEED QUESTS TO BE UNLOCKED, and takes a bunch of time to get done. When arbitrations first came out i was not nearly done with the star chart, the game mode pushed me forward with motivation to finish the star chart and the archwing missions i had left to do. Its challenging especially with the new disruption addition since the drones can protect the demolyst.

A friend of mine finished War Within in like 6-7 days.

Do you really think that's a lot of time? A one or two weeks old player is ready for arbitrations?

[ArcticHelix]

9 minutes ago, Xerachiel said:

A friend of mine finished War Within in like 6-7 days.

Do you really think that's a lot of time? A one or two weeks old player is ready for arbitrations?

yea man cause it totally takes only 2 weeks to reach the sacrifice and get every mission on the star chart done. /S

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, Xerachiel said:

Oh i thought you were talking about people dying 10 times before rot C 😛
Those other ones are kinda rarer, but still a lot of them around! 

These can be the same Players that would use Rhino or Inaros and be dead in 17 Mins or lower. But that's not as bad as when the Squad using Frames like Ivara and Mag Prime in a Infested Arbitraiton and you be only one alive.

Edited September 21, 2019 by GPrime96

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

On 2019-09-21 at 12:39 AM, Xerachiel said:

It is time DE, if a new player wants to do arbitrations, then he should be prepared.
Imagine being a new player in a mmo and having inmediate access to the more "challenging" game mode of the game.
What's the point? What would I focus to improve? What's the goal I have to work to get to?

.......what is this post?

Ummm you do know arbitrations is locked behind completing every node on the star chart? Not sure how it's "design for new players" we they can't access it until a long while in the game and they can't get taxied to it.

People hated getting blindsided by random one shots that didn't make sense and could try for another hour, so they added a revive system with challenge, gather tokens that take the carriers health away and then they can only do it when they have certain number that brings their heatlh to barely hundred sometimes, how is that for new players exactly?

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Sounds like you need to start using recruit chat so you're not getting paired up with those kinds of Tenno.

[bibmobello]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Shodian said:

Sounds like you need to start using recruit chat so you're not getting paired up with those kinds of Tenno.

There isn't a warranty to have decent players even using a recruit chat but if you search for  very niche missions(hardcore).

Edited September 21, 2019 by bibmobello

[Dante]

Just add Nightmare Arbitration with better rewards and no revives, my suggestion. 

[bibmobello]

18 minutes ago, Dante said:

Just add Nightmare Arbitration with better rewards and no revives, my suggestion. 

But Arbitration destruction on lua is hard even with revives on high levels.

Edited September 21, 2019 by bibmobello

[ShortCat]

"Prepared palyer"

Edited September 21, 2019 by ShortCat

[MakubexKido]

The revive feature was a band aid to the host migration problem
host died ? better pray hard cause hes gonna yeet out
or worse, hes going to afk while leeching your rewards (on few occasions, people claimed they still get rewards even after they hit game over)4

 

but i vote for its removal
also get those trash out of the droptable, fcken put the to the arbitration store !!

[Kaotyke]

3 hours ago, MakubexKido said:

host died ? better pray hard cause hes gonna yeet out
or worse, hes going to afk while leeching your rewards (on few occasions, people claimed they still get rewards even after they hit game over)4

 

Actually, no: if he is dead  for 2 minutes the AFK timer kicks in and he gets nothing.

But there is another thing: the game kicks you out of them game if you are AFK  for 10-15 minutes without killing. The result is a host migration without the Host doing or gaining anything on his end. Just wasting his time while others play.