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Do We Have Dungeons in Warframe ?

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Just saying the word Dungeon doesn't really mean anything. Different games handle it differently, you have randomly generated stuff, fixed scenarios with random elements and rouge-like dungeons. You need to define what exactly is the system and the mechanics of what you're asking.

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20 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

The tilesets we have on the other hand have many areas to them, with multiple routes available to head towards the extraction point. So no, they're not dungeons.

Err... there is only one extraction point and quite literally only one way to get there. Every other route is a detour... like an actual dungeon. So yes, Warframe's tilesets are randomly generated dungeons.

Edited by Goodwill
There's no rule to say dungeons can't have LEDs in them.
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We kind of have one dungeon-like mission, the Assault mission on the Kuva Fortress. While every mission is a "dungeon" in the most basic sense, generally a dungeon in other games will have multiple objectives towards a greater goal. Having multiple objective missions (Like Assault) with the procedural map design would be a great way to spice up the mission variety in my opinion.

Even just mashing multiple of our current missions into one mission, imagine having to do a MD terminal, then a capture, then a sabotage objective. The problem then comes in with rewards.

 

Controversial opinion: I would love to see 60% to 80% of the star-chart missions be made multiple objective (ranging from 2-4 objectives). Yes, that would make missions a bit longer, but the rewards per mission could just be up-scaled accordingly. Also not that random new objective BS, the objectives of each mission would be curated, but how you get to each objective (and the tile the objective exists in) would be random.

Edit: With the tech coming with Empyrean it would be possible to string together completely different tile sets into a single mission, or even have Archwing side objectives.

Edited by DrBorris
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2 hours ago, Methanoid said:

they were far from ridden with serious bugs, at most some probably easy to change or fix puzzle/pressure pad related issues, its not like they were hugely in-depth, they were still simple at their core and certainly something that should have had time given to them to improve upon, i would still rather have improved raids than the boring godzilla fights we have now.

I remember Jordas being in every patchfix at one point because it broke one thing after another.

The complexity was also not the issue that caused low player interaction. It was the barrier to entry. Many people werent willing to take new players in because raids were more of a “quick half hour activity” then a full on gameplay challenge, therefore teaching new people the raid increased the time in a mission that didnt need to be longer. You also”needed” 8 people to efficiently do the raids, and god forbid wanting to do jordas if you didnt have the best archwing gear and mods, something a large potion of the player base hadnt done due to archwing being archwing. 

 

As for the “boring Godzilla fights” I personally enjoy these more then raids. It doesnt take as many people, they are faster, the credit rewards are less, but there is the index, and it means arcanes arent as exclusive. 

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8 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I remember Jordas being in every patchfix at one point because it broke one thing after another.

The complexity was also not the issue that caused low player interaction. It was the barrier to entry. Many people werent willing to take new players in because raids were more of a “quick half hour activity” then a full on gameplay challenge, therefore teaching new people the raid increased the time in a mission that didnt need to be longer. You also”needed” 8 people to efficiently do the raids, and god forbid wanting to do jordas if you didnt have the best archwing gear and mods, something a large potion of the player base hadnt done due to archwing being archwing. 

 

As for the “boring Godzilla fights” I personally enjoy these more then raids. It doesnt take as many people, they are faster, the credit rewards are less, but there is the index, and it means arcanes arent as exclusive. 

true jv was bugged sometimes but rest of your claims about raids are bs

wondering if u even experience them

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11 hours ago, Methanoid said:

they were far from ridden with serious bugs, at most some probably easy to change or fix puzzle/pressure pad related issues, its not like they were hugely in-depth, they were still simple at their core and certainly something that should have had time given to them to improve upon, i would still rather have improved raids than the boring godzilla fights we have now.

As someone who played raids for several updates, the spaghetti code present was astounding at the end of the raids.  Each update brought some new stupid bug to the raids but especially JV at the end where it became difficult to even do the raid because of said bugs.  Barely anyone played the raids as evidenced by the pie chart they released some time ago of what game modes people played back when raids were a thing raids made up a slightly larger number of players then conclave at like 1.3% of the playerbase or something tiny.  Though part of that blame can fall on DE because frankly a lot of people didn't know raids even existed until they announced "Oh hey we're taking the raids out and moving arcanes over to eidolons."  You had to dig around in the market to find the blueprints for JV, LoR, and NM LoR keys.  

There aren't dungeons in warframe, not in the sense of WoW where it isn't a procedurally generated tileset but instead a map that is the same every time.  No, PoE and orb vallis do not count as they are just big blank spaces with generic missions attached to them in the form of bounties and some boss fights ala eidolons and profit takers.  

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22 minutes ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

true jv was bugged sometimes but rest of your claims about raids are bs

wondering if u even experience them

Are you willing to explain why you believe my claims were bs, or do you just have a desire to argue? 

Also, seeing as how I have the Sekarahs and sigals for both modes of LoR (never wanted to do JV cause i dont enjoy AW) i would say i did experience them

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It depends on your definition of dungeons. 

Every mission in the game may be called a dungeon. 

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12 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

Are you willing to explain why you believe my claims were bs, or do you just have a desire to argue? 

Also, seeing as how I have the Sekarahs and sigals for both modes of LoR (never wanted to do JV cause i dont enjoy AW) i would say i did experience them

raids wasn't meant for new players how would u even pretend to complete them when u barely have knowledge of the game

there was no barrier to entry the only barrier lay on your will to play something that required teamwork as such u could always watch some tutorials,join RSB,or just figure it out by yourself

you didn't need 8 ppl to efficiently do them all u needed back in the day was a team of 4 to start

also trials had no meta frames neither builds as long u had knowledge about the mechanic

you say raids were more "quick half hour activity " then a full on gameplay challenge yet you claim to enjoy the godzilla fights more coz it doesn't take as many ppl and they are faster   \_(''/)_/

about your experience on old trials all i could find was this 

 

K5yrNOr.png

 

if that's the case u never bothered 

 

Edited by HIGHDAMAGE

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On 2019-09-21 at 6:20 PM, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Probably not, there used to be these things called raids which were pretty good apparently but they were scrapped for whatever reason. DE seems to have gone down a path of noob friendly content and I doubt they'll turn away now

To be fair all that the raids really ended being gameplay wise was that you picked up a thing (similar thing to the data keys from mobile defense missions), moved the thing a little bit, dropped it. And then u also walked onto small platforms in a specified order. This is what 95% of one of the raids consisted of. With a pretty good but really short bossfight against chicken suit vay hek at the end. And the other one was just a archwing cluster#*!% so annoyingly complicated that if you actually found any teammates that didnt screw everything up you would only ever want to play with those ones. A toxic culture of elitism was born from raids and it was not a positive influence on the game as a whole.

Hell even among the people who miss raids, they dont talk about how fun they were to do. They do however talk about the social aspect. And by that they mean chatting about random stuff while waiting for the newb to finally catch up in case of the archwing one. Or in case of the other one for the newb to walk ontop of the bloody platform.

Oh and also about having 8 player squads (which I very much agree was awesome) and for some reason about "having to cooperate" which I just dont get. Why? Because the level of cooperation in raids wasnt really that different compared to every other farm in the game. Sure you couldnt succeed at all if you facked up in raids, but in the eyes of players when u f up in normal farms and get only a small amount of loot it is psychologically the same as failing in a raid anyways. Expect u get a small consulation prize.

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4 hours ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

raids wasn't meant for new players how would u even pretend to complete them when u barely have knowledge of the game

I never said they were meant for new players, but new players never got into them because of the aforementioned barriers to entry. If you dont get new players to enjoy an activity, the activity will not last because it will not have an interest big enough to sustain it. Remember, trails had less then 3% of the player base play it. Why? Because new players never could try it. 

Quote

there was no barrier to entry the only barrier lay on your will to play something that required teamwork as such u could always watch some tutorials,join RSB,or just figure it out by yourself

Apart from multiple elitists who lived by the mantra that you have to have already played trials to play again, which happens for every raid-like event in most games to be fair, you still issues finding groups for LoR, and while (as you do mention) you didnt NEED 8, it was rare to play without 8. 

Quote

you didn't need 8 ppl to efficiently do them all u needed back in the day was a team of 4 to start

To start, yes. But many lfg’ed games were always teams of 8 

Quote

also trials had no meta frames neither builds as long u had knowledge about the mechanic

Mirage 4 was harshly nerfed due to its trials meta-ness at one point. Same with trinity. There was definitely a meta.    

Quote

you say raids were more "quick half hour activity " then a full on gameplay challenge yet you claim to enjoy the godzilla fights more coz it doesn't take as many ppl and they are faster   \_(''/)_/

No, I said they were 30 minute activities that people didnt want to become full gameplay challenges, which could often happen if you have a new raider in your group. Its obviously true that someone who has never done a raid will take longer to do one then someone who has done raids. 

Quote

about your experience on old trials all i could find was this 

 

K5yrNOr.png

 

if that's the case u never bothered 

 

Seeing as how I have both the Asceron and Sevhati Sekhara’s, one of which you cant get unless you do NM LoR, ima say that site isnt 100% accurate. 

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Raids were horrible. It's funny to see how as time goes on, people are remembering them fondly. 

They were buggy and people generally didn't like them. That's why they were removed. 

I wish they would repurpose the content though, minus the puzzle rooms.

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59 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

I never said they were meant for new players, but new players never got into them because of the aforementioned barriers to entry. If you dont get new players to enjoy an activity, the activity will not last because it will not have an interest big enough to sustain it. Remember, trails had less then 3% of the player base play it. Why? Because new players never could try it. 

Apart from multiple elitists who lived by the mantra that you have to have already played trials to play again, which happens for every raid-like event in most games to be fair, you still issues finding groups for LoR, and while (as you do mention) you didnt NEED 8, it was rare to play without 8. 

To start, yes. But many lfg’ed games were always teams of 8 

Mirage 4 was harshly nerfed due to its trials meta-ness at one point. Same with trinity. There was definitely a meta.    

No, I said they were 30 minute activities that people didnt want to become full gameplay challenges, which could often happen if you have a new raider in your group. Its obviously true that someone who has never done a raid will take longer to do one then someone who has done raids. 

Seeing as how I have both the Asceron and Sevhati Sekhara’s, one of which you cant get unless you do NM LoR, ima say that site isnt 100% accurate. 

git gud all i see only excuses from ppl who failed to understand the mechanic & team work

mirage prism & trin bless were also available on other missions so its stupid to think they went nerfed just coz of raids also believe me when i say there was no meta if u have any doubts about it check zanagoth videos maybe u'll understand

so how many raids did u do 3-4? wile never bothering with jv

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55 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Raids were horrible. It's funny to see how as time goes on, people are remembering them fondly. 

They were buggy and people generally didn't like them. That's why they were removed. 

I wish they would repurpose the content though, minus the puzzle rooms.

Raids was the only content that required team work to progress true they was bugy sometimes (jv) but way better then dead brain eso u asking for

 

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3 hours ago, Sigma-118 said:

 

Ah I see, joined long after these were removed so all I heard about them were how challenging and fun they were (probably when they worked properly) ,and the fact that you had eight whole players to goof around with, didn't know they were such a disaster. But I hope DE keeps their word and adds a similar mode back that you need endgame builds and a ton of teamwork to pull off, or atleast let 8 players run around the open worlds even.

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1 hour ago, HIGHDAMAGE said:

 

so how many raids did u do 3-4? wile never bothering with jv

Off the top of my head I did nightmare LoR between 3-5 times, but regular I did at least 25+. Not a huge number compared to some but about 1 or so times a week from when I was interested in doing them until when I got bored of them. Sadly apparently DE not only moved the raids but also how many you have shown completed in the profile stats page so i cant 100% say what the count was. 

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Le 21/09/2019 à 18:17, (PS4)bdr1414 a dit :

why isn't it an endgame plan ?

The actual state of the game doesnt allow endgame content or it makes it extremly difficult ot make. Mainly the balance is non existent.

And vast majority of the players dont want endgame content. They just want to be god, farm stuff easily and most of all more fashion.

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On 2019-09-22 at 12:24 AM, (PS4)bdr1414 said:
On 2019-09-22 at 12:19 AM, DeMonkey said:

Why would it?

that's what I'm asking , what are the pros & cons , does it fit to be an endgame ?

dungeon is a room or cell in which prisoners are held, especially underground. We have underground areas throughout the game but doesn't make any sense fitting any dungeon like material since Warframe is a genre of its own. Talk about parkour on medieval dungeon(s)? I'm not saying its impossible... it just don't add up very much IMO.

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Well since warframe isn't the typical mmo with an open world and instanced dungeons. You could say any map we load into outside of the plains, orb v as lus, and railjack are essentially dungeons.

And the random invasions/alerts that spawn act the same as poping into any mission on the starmap.

The game is a looter shootrr meant gor average players to pop in and crack skulls for fun and get shiny loot.

Its not teally a hardcore mmo.  If you want an increase in difficulty that's the point of the different modes, levels, etc.

If you are so tricked out that nothing de can do is enough. Then well you should probably quit.  Why should de fight a unwinnable battle?

Edited by (PS4)Kakurine2
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On 2019-09-21 at 11:20 AM, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Probably not, there used to be these things called raids which were pretty good apparently but they were scrapped for whatever reason. DE seems to have gone down a path of noob friendly content and I doubt they'll turn away now

It is ironic considering DE seems to have scrapped raids because organized squadrons with creative ideas made a certain dev throw a temper tantrum quite often, use CC to kill enemies by throwing them to a pit? tantrum + remove environmental kills, use resource gathering and energy manipulation to keep your nukes charged at all times? tantrum + nerf any mechanics (greedy pull) that allowed teammates to gather resources in an optimal manner, so they can't even let some veterans have their fun.

Edited by VanFanel1980mx
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Every mission in this game is a dungeon, which reminds me of vindictus... A close thing to a dungeon would be assassination missions and you can see how those are handled.

I like the eidolons as a boss fight that you're going to want to group up for and if you look at it it's not like a traditional dungeon exactly... Which I think play to the games' strengths

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No.

The only game content that would come close to dungeons are the MINES.

No, Warframe got

• 0 dungeons

• 0 Time atack raid

• 0 Clan rewarding to be best at oneTyp of X dungoen

• 0 Competion related to dungeons even if there was one.

 

The only content FROM typical dungeons are Bosses.

But, those are more FIELDBOSS Typs then Dungeon bosses.

• Dungeon Bosses drop best loot at their lvl range.

A typical Dungeon would look like this:

 

Palmir%20Plateau.jpg

1 Dungeon Typ of X, while 2 of the same typ exist.

Edited by P0Pz
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14 hours ago, (PS4)OriginalEquinox said:

Ah I see, joined long after these were removed so all I heard about them were how challenging and fun they were (probably when they worked properly) ,and the fact that you had eight whole players to goof around with, didn't know they were such a disaster. But I hope DE keeps their word and adds a similar mode back that you need endgame builds and a ton of teamwork to pull off, or atleast let 8 players run around the open worlds even.

Oh yeah completely agree there. Cant wait to see what DE ends up adding to fill the role of raids 😄

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On 2019-09-21 at 7:22 PM, rapt0rman said:

I dunno what RPG dungeons you guys have been doing, but "instanced missions" like in Warframe are pretty much the basis of dungeons. Aside from the two open worlds, the entirety of Warframe is dungeons.

^ This

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Numerikuu:

^ This

Incorrect.

Its like a animal which is big = Elephant. But there are several big animals not only 1.

This means here is more clearification needed.

Which is:

• Origin in Publication: the dungeon is where Underground adventures take place

 

Underground adventures

Which Warframe got 0.

 

In context any mission in Warframe is a FIELD combat even thought indoors.

 

Another clear point a "gaming dungeon" is in need of:

• 50-100 rooms AT LEAST or else it is a "mini dungeon".

• Dungeon enemies have AT LEAST 8-10 diff lvls

• Dungeon Enemies stay/spawn AT THEIR room. Agro System might pull them into other rooms but return after either a given "distance" away from their room or time of chasing runs off bound to beeing out of THEIR room.

Dungeon Enemies will NEVER all group up and go try hunt the hero/s.

Between rooms THERE CAN BE PATROLS to ensure no real save spot.

 

• Dungeon Enemies ARE HARDER to take down compared to their FIELD VERSIONS or field enemies. Even thought sharing same lvl. Increased EHP increased damage.

The amount of Enemies or Mobs in each room can viery a lot.

Normaly at the starting area lower lvl and lower amount of enemies.

The deeper it goes the more EHP & Damage they get (as well as higher level numbers).

A Dungeon always got: a or several SideBoss(es) or/and a MainBoss.

 

• Loot

Dungeons offer compared to field Mobs(enemies) higher gear/items of rarity and some ONLY dropable loot here. The best "items" including rares SkillCards drop here.

Esp the Side- and Main-Bosses drop most exclusive best "dropable" items.

 

There ARE FIELDBOSSES that also need teamplay to take down AND OFFER to do so EXCLUSIVE only here drop-able items.

The difference here:

Field = NOT underground = Weaker compared to Dungeon versions bc of waaay lower EHP + waay lower Damage at AutoAtacks(AAs) as also Abilities damages and frequences in using does.

*////*

 

So by all means, Warframe got 0 dungeons. Field Enemies, Indoor upperworld Field combat, upper Open World Field combat.

 

No Underground adventures

No Dungeon(s)

+ The other points it needs to be a Dungeon/ mini-Dungeon/ Mega-Dungeon.

But the core of beeing a dungeon begins to be underground.

 

Edit:

There are normaly SEVERAL dungeons in several level ranges. 

The 1st possible to enter dungeon for a "unit" got the lowest dungeon mobs/enemie lvls within.

Basicly to start training HOW to fight this hard targets and HOW to interact in diff team-setups to be max effective to ▪Survive ▪Kill Speed ▪EXP/Drop ▪ Player Skill increase/Agro controll

*////*

Normaly starts a group, of higher lvls, which wants to RUSH into deeper rooms/boss hunt, with having a Agro puller Assasin/unit that can stealth as either SCOUT or FRONTRUNNER so weaker team members and full team can run behind him almost save. At the time the Sin/Assa or unit of stealth enters the groups room of desire he stealths IF ALL TEAM members are also there, IF NOT he trys keep running in circle to give his squad time and not run into a wall of agro Mobs. THEN he stealths and offs agro and moves back to his team.

SCOUTING before all run...

Not only are there dungeons...

There are also HARDCORE dungeons. To gain access to it, you might have to find a certain portal which randomly respawns at different rooms after beeing used before. The Scouting Sin/Assa or unit of stealth locate it and the team; normaly the tank, starts to lead through the dungeon to the location of the hardcore entry portal. Then all enter. Portal expires after 60sec after 1 unit goes trough which is why it should be scouted 1st by a stealth able unit to find and hidde till squad arrives and then enters.

Hardcore dungeons offer more drop chances per kill of rar items more exp but waay moore EHP per target to kill.

 

• Puller

Is a unit in team (normaly a unit of stealth) which is using A SINGLE target atack on a single mob. Very close by other mobs will be alerted as well and run also to the PULLER. If incoming mobs are close by he stealths before getting hitted. Group loses aggro Ai sets reset back to room, but team atacks one of the closeby mob. Which returns to atack while all other mobs keep returning to room. Like this, team can now fight ONE mob instead all which would be equal dead.

The Puller, watches and times when to repeat pulling next mob so after killing one, the team can lure the next singled out mob.

 

Technic, Coordination, Teamplay, Skill

Healing also generates Agro points as well as Damage. Foes will target normaly the team member with highest Agro points. Bc healing creates also high agro, healer or healing can be deadly so a healer needs to care not to heal to much or gets almost 1shoted/killed. Which is why a unit with high EHP should take the damage.

Agro Keep. At bosses or higher lvl dungeon mobs, to secure a certain unit will keep agro, HE will SOLO atack the mob for a certain time TO UPBUILD AGRO. Then the team joins in, much more save not pull agro.

There are ofc also Dungeon Sieges up to 400 vs 400 players fighting in a MOBA style to kill the other sides CORE. Winning clan owns the dungeon for 6 days and get % gold from droping/killed enemies from anyone using this dungeon.

TIME RAIDS are there to qualify to challenge the owing clan between other clans which want also to challenge the owners. The fastes clan Raiding the current dungeon qualifies and can fight Saturdays the owning clan. Time Raids are from Monday to Thursday available.

 

Cheers guys.

Edited by P0Pz
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