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ThumpumGood

Umbra and the lack of warm up

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When I came back to the game, I was pretty well established. Most frames, all the important weapons, decent Amps. So doing Umbra wasn't an issue for me. Then I set up an account for my son and helped him thru a lot.

The situation: Trying to get the map opened for Arbitration and having to finsih all of the quests to be able to do the Flydolon. MR10, the Apostasy Prologue opens up. Mote Amp is 7, doesnt have focus yet buit does have a well set up Loki, Ignis Wraith and Sonicor(no kitguns yet). Me with being ahead of the curve when I did it, didnt realize the extreme difficulty of doing it in his position.

So he goes fail fail fail. Extreme frustration in having to die repeatedly(NO gamer enjoys that) in order to defeat Umbra with his gear. He did it but was ready to quit. I had to reassure him that nothing else in the game was this difficult.

So after relating all of this, Im looking at the very real possibility that we've lost players due to this frustration. My suggestion is that there be either a quest to get a real amp or adding a requirement that you make and lv an amp to 30 before you can do it. This gives the player the information that the Mote is too weak and that you need some focus established before you will be able to compete against Umbra. It also might end the players having to be carried in Eidolon farms because they dont have anything that will work against the eidolons with any success.

Just a thought and Idea. What say you?

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We can check some stats on this as well to see the quit rates in the fight vs Amp level, it's probably worth reviewing!

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I think it's better to bring your son hunting vomvalyst (vom-vom) and take it slowly instead of taking him all over the place

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I mean, that's fine and all, but your situation does in no way count for the rest of the players. For one, not all players have their dad pushing them to speedrun everything to do 'late game' content 

I'd suggest you let your son explore the game as he sees fit and enjoys it at his own pace

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1 minute ago, 844448 said:

I think it's better to bring your son hunting vomvalyst (vom-vom) and take it slowly instead of taking him all over the place

LOL- Son's pretty independent. He was off on his own for that. The screaming at the computer was what brought me in to see what he was up to. Even before he had the ability to trasnfer thru the frame, some friends and I took him thru tri eidolons so he could get night wave. He also needed Grocdrul and iradite for his launcher so we had him stay in relatively safe areas to farm those while we did the hunt. And yes, I kept hearing "this is boring" the whole time. LOL - But when he finally got the tenno suit, he was greatful for the help. ūüėÉ I just wasnt expecting him to go off on the Umbra quest so soon. And he was stubborn. He noticed after he died and came back that Umbra maintained his damage so he pushed thru, but was very frustrated by it.

 

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7 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We can check some stats on this as well to see the quit rates in the fight vs Amp level, it's probably worth reviewing!

Thank you. Even knowing that it's of enough interest to the dev team is helpful. Glad you responded.

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While I do agree there needs to be some indicator for newer players that the mote amp is trash, I have recently had a similar scenario in which I've been helping my GF get into the game (I created a second account in order to go through  the content with her) and it was fairly easy to get a 1-1-1 amp with which we had no problem taking care of Umbra. But without my prior knowledge of amps we probably would have ended up facing Umbra with the mote amp like I did when I first played and it was very frustrating. I think I remember sitting up on a ledge somewhere he couldn't reach and just whittled away at his shield.

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It’s definitely frustrating for sure but it’s not entirely impossible to defeat Umbra with a Mote Amp. I was able to do it with a Ungilded Mote Amp, which it definitely took a few minutes and died countless times but still did it nonetheless.

Plus, if your son is having struggles with it, then maybe it’s a sign that he should stop at that part of the quest and start working on a better Amp to defeat Umbra.

Edited by xXDeadsinxX

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3 minutes ago, Mysandwich said:

While I do agree there needs to be some indicator for newer players that the mote amp is trash,

The fact that its the starter Amp is not indication enough?

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Just now, Kaotyke said:

The fact that its the starter Amp is not indication enough?

While it is true that it is a starter amp, newer players have no point of reference when they receive it of how bad it is. Obviously we know how bad it is because we've been playing the game long enough to know, but when you first start off the player is captivated by the fact that they have this shiny new thing on their arm that can shoot lasers.

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5 minutes ago, Mysandwich said:

While it is true that it is a starter amp, newer players have no point of reference when they receive it of how bad it is. Obviously we know how bad it is because we've been playing the game long enough to know, but when you first start off the player is captivated by the fact that they have this shiny new thing on their arm that can shoot lasers.

Not really. I mean: I looked at it it and continued with the menu options with Onkko.

Then I looked at the shop and saw all the other parts.

Edit: we didnt have a preview back then when it first launched, but we do now, which brings these points:

They can go to "Build Amp" to preview them (Along with the stats) right then and there and compared with the Mote.

Its not something they get in-missions and use right off the bat. They are given it then have the menu to see better ones right after.

Edited by Kaotyke
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I think the problem is more that there is no good way to get anything beyond the mote amp quickly. Even if you come to the conclusion that the mote amp is trash your options for improvement are extremely limited:

Fortuna amps: You need to be max rank fortuna to even get into amp crafting there. As a new player that takes you literal months.

Cetus amps: You need to hunt eidolons for that and those are extremely hostile for new players because everyone wants to speedrun them due to the night restriction. When you reach the sacrifice as a new player you are very undergeared against Eidolons if you were going through the quests at a reasonable pace. 

I think it would be good to have another amp somewhere that isnt behind the super heavy grinds of the open worlds. Maybe have the parts drop from uranus with hunhow's bones hanging around there without much purpose. Obviously the powerlevel should be lower but if it's placed halfway between Mote amp and 111 amp it would make Umbra and getting into eidolons so much more bearable. The Mote amp is just so weak.

Edit: I dont know why I didnt just think of the far more obvious idea of letting mimics a new set of amp parts. Would tie in far better into the struggle with the mote amp against umbra.

Edited by Drachnyn
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24 minutes ago, Mysandwich said:

While it is true that it is a starter amp, newer players have no point of reference when they receive it of how bad it is. Obviously we know how bad it is because we've been playing the game long enough to know, but when you first start off the player is captivated by the fact that they have this shiny new thing on their arm that can shoot lasers.

That’s fair. I wouldn’t actually be against the idea of more guidance and indication for newer players who acquired the Mote Amp of how it functions and how to upgrade your Amp as well as how to acquire new Amps.

Edited by xXDeadsinxX

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i would have gone an repeated the quest an showed your child how it was to let them know what the quest had them do an be able to ask questions about it as that way ūüėĄ¬†they know what they are getting into an are able to plan around this.

for the amp isn't gonna be enough as they gonna need the vigor an husk for there operator to give them more health an armor to give them a fighting chance against umbra

while yes they were given a warm up as chains of harrow had your operator fight alone against couple waves of enemies. So umbra woudln't have been so hard for them

along with the in game community as im guessing you an your child are in the same clan so if that true then could ask clan mates if they could help take your child into ediolon hunts so that way they get the chance to learn from others

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Well... They could buff the mote amp or let you gild it… or... give you the parts to a level 1 amp (maybe through an Operator-oriented quest), which is still soooo much better than the mote. I hate the mote amp.

But right now it's all I've got. I need to do more Fortuna bounties to get to Vox Solaris. It seems much faster than ranking with the Quills for comparable equipment. And, you know, less frustrating for those of us on Switch. I've read a lot of complaints of crashing and just poor times being had against Eidolans. 

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I feel you, that is why I often try to emphasize players that get past War Within to relocate to the Plains of Eidolon since most of War Within's unlocks got embedded into Saya's Vigil and Quill's unlocks. Chains and Sacrifice are much easier with some Tenno pumps and upgraded amps, perhaps this could be a focus for the kiddo? Maxing Cetus and then Eidolons after Saya's quest is complete and then continuing with the missions that benefit from this assumed progression that the quests and Ropalolyst seem balanced around.

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1 hour ago, ThumpumGood said:
Spoiler

When I came back to the game, I was pretty well established. Most frames, all the important weapons, decent Amps. So doing Umbra wasn't an issue for me. Then I set up an account for my son and helped him thru a lot.

The situation: Trying to get the map opened for Arbitration and having to finsih all of the quests to be able to do the Flydolon. MR10, the Apostasy Prologue opens up. Mote Amp is 7, doesnt have focus yet buit does have a well set up Loki, Ignis Wraith and Sonicor(no kitguns yet). Me with being ahead of the curve when I did it, didnt realize the extreme difficulty of doing it in his position.

So he goes fail fail fail. Extreme frustration in having to die repeatedly(NO gamer enjoys that) in order to defeat Umbra with his gear. He did it but was ready to quit. I had to reassure him that nothing else in the game was this difficult.

So after relating all of this, Im looking at the very real possibility that we've lost players due to this frustration. My suggestion is that there be either a quest to get a real amp or adding a requirement that you make and lv an amp to 30 before you can do it. This gives the player the information that the Mote is too weak and that you need some focus established before you will be able to compete against Umbra. It also might end the players having to be carried in Eidolon farms because they dont have anything that will work against the eidolons with any success.

Just a thought and Idea. What say you?

 

I've completed that quest without an Amp, because I deliberately chose to be at a disadvantage... But it turns out that I had worse performance with the Mote Amp... Especially ever since [DE] condensed the initial method of damaging from Amps and Void Beams into "damage per second" which no other weapon follows that method, other than the Status DoT system.

I've noticed a reduced effectiveness from that side of the board ever since that change... The current damage method may have the best of intentions but, unfortunately, the values may be wrong and that may be causing difficulties in places and/or situations where there isn't supposed to be any.

Edited by Uhkretor

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Hmmm mayhaps gilding a non-mote amp would be a good pre-req for the quest then?

Tho I am a bit torn on the subject of warm up, on the one hand yeah I know I had a lot of "down time" in the game where I had literally nothing better to do so I finally broke down and said "fine I'll grind some miserable focus" and as such engaged in mechanics that newer players won't necessarily see the benefit of until they are up against the wall and looking at maybe a week+ of grinding Focus and the likes before they can push past Umbra with relative ease. 

On the other hand I recall the Jordas Golem and how I wanted Atlus but no one was playing that node because "ewww Archwing" so I went and I ground my Archwing weapons (back when you actually got them from drops) and built up my mods and spent that week or so preparing and then took on the Golem and it was a pretty solid fight. So part of me wants to say just put the grind in for Umbra. 

Even then I still remember something about the Umbra fight irritating me at the time, don't recall exactly what it was but there was something?

Edited by Oreades

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9 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Hmmm mayhaps gilding a non-mote amp would be a good pre-req for the quest then? 

this is a good Idea and honestly should be part of a quest line some where

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that part of the quest is literally the reason I went and grinded out a halfway decent amp
the last "fight" with umbra is a joke with a mote amp and I'm shocked it hasn't even been brought to dev attention until now

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2 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

That’s fair. I wouldn’t actually be against the idea of more guidance and indication for newer players who acquired the Mote Amp of how it functions and how to upgrade your Amp as well as how to acquire new Amps.

Only if they ignore Cetus and Fortuna completly aside from the Quests to advance the Starchart.

Because at that point, they will know of Kitguns and Zaws and how they are build.

Amps are build the same as the two above.

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I did make a new pc account and ran up to the umbra + mote is a pain 

It wasnt impossible,  you just run and gun a lot ( and die) as operator in that final part. but its worth it at the end

i only recently made a decent amp and i havent even guilded it yet 

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I feel like there is 2 problems here.

1.  The game doesn't do a great job telling you how trash the Mote amp really is.  You don't really have a lot to compare it to unless you have friends/someone to tell you.

2.  The Mote amp is trash.  Like, way more trash than it really needs to be.  Pretty sure a wet noodle literally does more damage.  I feel like it could definitely use a bump imo.

Edited by Klaleara
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