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Has The Warframe Alignment Morality Meter Been Completely Forgotten?

VotumPrime

By VotumPrime,
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KnossosTNC

KnossosTNC

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Honestly, it looks like a half-baked idea that was thrown in there, with an "eh, we'll think of something later."

Morality system needs diverging content paths to feel rewarding; simple to do in single-player games, but much harder in online games, where consistency is king. I doubt we'll see this come into fruition soon.

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VotumPrime

VotumPrime

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2 minutes ago, Kurokoz said:

Well also wasn't the last decision in The Sacrifice? Obviously they haven't done anything with it yet but if they were going to it would likely be with the next major quest

I'm hoping for that too.but I am unable to make any predictions as to how or what they will do with it.

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Oreades

Oreades

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Honestly speaking I have grown to hate player choice/morality systems in games because I can't recall a developer/game that actually pulled if off with anything more than lip service. 

At the end of the day Player choice/morality systems could matter but that would be expensive and that's the reason that complicated "player choice" systems usually result in choosing the color of your lasers in the last 5min of the game. I kinda wish developers would stop trying to pull it off. 

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NoSpax

NoSpax

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1. make it a gore multiplier. The more black, the more gore and intestines fly across your screen. With blood drops on the HUD.

2. Kiddo man comes more frequently for a visit in the white range.

3. Different responses to that particular Tenno by the Kavor, depending if you are good or evil. 

  • Good: Somehow happy to see the Tenno, can boost morale of Kavor
  • Slight Good: a bit happy
  • Neutral: as it is right now
  • Slightly bad: Shaken
  • Bad: Horrified of that Tenno, lessens morale. May have trouble sending them to the next spot, because unable to move.

 

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Firetempest

Firetempest

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6 minutes ago, NoSpax said:

3. Different responses to that particular Tenno by the Kavor, depending if you are good or evil. 

  • Good: Somehow happy to see the Tenno, can boost morale of Kavor
  • Slight Good: a bit happy
  • Neutral: as it is right now
  • Slightly bad: Shaken
  • Bad: Horrified of that Tenno, lessens morale. May have trouble sending them to the next spot, because unable to move.

 

Its not good or bad though. Its ying and yang, complimentary forces not specifically opposing each other. 

Edited by Firetempest
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VotumPrime

VotumPrime

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9 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Honestly speaking I have grown to hate player choice/morality systems in games because I can't recall a developer/game that actually pulled if off with anything more than lip service. 

At the end of the day Player choice/morality systems could matter but that would be expensive and that's the reason that complicated "player choice" systems usually result in choosing the color of your lasers in the last 5min of the game. I kinda wish developers would stop trying to pull it off. 

Yeah even Star Wars The Old Republic could not pull it off.

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VotumPrime

VotumPrime

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2 minutes ago, Firetempest said:

Its not good or bad though. Its ying and yang, complimentary forces not specifically opposing each other. 

You know people are ignorant of eastern philosophy and religion when they think of yin and yang as two separate things and represent good and evil lol which oppose each other instead of cooperating.

Edited by VotumPrime
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AuroraSonicBoom

AuroraSonicBoom

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I think Helminth made it rather clear that the morality compass had something to do with the MitW/Your psychological shadow, so I wouldn't expect anything to come of it until HeyKiddo gets more involved. And he will, according to Natah who knows that our inner devil is powerful enough to make the Sentients afraid.

Even then I wouldn't expect more to come of it than a Mass Effect 2 style renegade/paragon system, where your appearance changes slightly depending on how much of an ashhat you are. Imagine instead of Shepard's cloning stars the more moon choices you made the more like your shadow you'll look and sound(glowy eyes, distorted voice)

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GrayArchon

GrayArchon

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1 hour ago, VotumPrime said:

But what uses do you guys think this will have?

I think it's difficult to give it a use other than fluff – different character dialogue. Right now the only impact of the morality meter is a few of Helminth's lines, and I think that's mostly what we can expect to get. If there are gameplay ramifications, there will be pushback from the players because Warframe is partially a collecting game. If players are locked out of experiencing content due to the morality meter (since choices cannot be re-made), they will be upset and I don't think it's a good road for DE to take, especially because the morality meter has been somewhat opaque up to this point.

1 hour ago, NoSpax said:

Different responses to that particular Tenno by the Kavor, depending if you are good or evil. 

  • Good: Somehow happy to see the Tenno, can boost morale of Kavor
  • Slight Good: a bit happy
  • Neutral: as it is right now
  • Slightly bad: Shaken
  • Bad: Horrified of that Tenno, lessens morale. May have trouble sending them to the next spot, because unable to move.

This is a perfect example of what DE is probably trying to avoid. Why should my Defection missions be harder just because I chose the "Moon" dialogue in a few quests?

1 hour ago, Firetempest said:

Its ying and yang, complimentary forces not specifically opposing each other.

One of the best analyses I have seen on the Sun/Moon wheel is this reddit post: Sun represents emotional passion while Moon represents passive, logical choices. I'm not familiar enough with Eastern philosophy to discuss the connection to yin and yang, but it is clear that it's not traditional Western morality like "good" and "evil".

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VotumPrime

VotumPrime

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12 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

I think it's difficult to give it a use other than fluff – different character dialogue. Right now the only impact of the morality meter is a few of Helminth's lines, and I think that's mostly what we can expect to get. If there are gameplay ramifications, there will be pushback from the players because Warframe is partially a collecting game. If players are locked out of experiencing content due to the morality meter (since choices cannot be re-made), they will be upset and I don't think it's a good road for DE to take, especially because the morality meter has been somewhat opaque up to this point.

This is a perfect example of what DE is probably trying to avoid. Why should my Defection missions be harder just because I chose the "Moon" dialogue in a few quests?

One of the best analyses I have seen on the Sun/Moon wheel is this reddit post: Sun represents emotional passion while Moon represents passive, logical choices. I'm not familiar enough with Eastern philosophy to discuss the connection to yin and yang, but it is clear that it's not traditional Western morality like "good" and "evil".

It's also known as the symbol for ultimate power that allows you to traverse through good moments and tragic moments in life in which both may have a positive or a negative impact on you.

I'll use 9/11 for example. The tragedy led to many lives lost with people directing their hatred towards those who shared an ethnic group with those who crashed the planes into the towers but at the same time it brought people closer together since everyone shared the same pain of losing a loved one which allowed for empathy and for people to come together and support each other.

It's a philosophy that helps you make the best of good and bad moments like this for you to go down the most optimal path in your life.

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AandOE

AandOE

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If I hadn't known that the system meant something other than good/bad, or that it was intended to affect future decisions, I wouldn't have felt that I needed to even change my normal pattern routine. Did I change the answers to be less Sun, and more Moon, just to try and get the portal to appear 'balanced'? Yeah, yeah I did. This was an out-of-game decision, with the moon now representing how much the real world is affecting my character's beliefs, rather than in-game decisions.

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nslay

nslay

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I have recently felt Warframe to be partly a psychology experiment of sorts after playing Chains of Horrow. Maybe some research psychologists are trying to profile gamer morality and ability to discern emotions and faces. Might also explain Warframe's choice of charity... the Canadian Mental Health Association.

I'm not complaining... but yeah, the permanence of the morality meter and the odd face questions was a red flag for me.

EDIT: If it is indeed some research data dump for gamers, it is some questionably ethical gray area Google/Facebook-type of setup.

Edited by nslay
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VotumPrime

VotumPrime

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56 minutes ago, nslay said:

I have recently felt Warframe to be partly a psychology experiment of sorts after playing Chains of Horrow. Maybe some research psychologists are trying to profile gamer morality and ability to discern emotions and faces. Might also explain Warframe's choice of charity... the Canadian Mental Health Association.

I'm not complaining... but yeah, the permanence of the morality meter and the odd face questions was a red flag for me.

EDIT: If it is indeed some research data dump for gamers, it is some questionably ethical gray area Google/Facebook-type of setup.

Oooh that sounds interesting.

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(PSN)thowed

(PSN)thowed

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Infamous did a pretty good job with it.  You got access to completely different powers depending on your "morality".  That wouldn't work in a game like this, just saying that's the only game I know of where it made an actual difference.  Also the being so evil your skin smoked in Fable was cool.

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Urlan

Urlan

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I also remember DE Steve mentioning that they have pretty much abandoned the Karma system, just leaving it for personal show - it was intended to be meaningful for story progression - but if you go from earlier quests with it, to Sacrifice, they drop and mostly flip the connotations they represented. I would like consistency in how the light and dark aspects are played up or represented in the game. Essentially the light comes across as in tune with "what would the Lotus do" and the dark is "what is the mission or reward, what is best for me" while the neutral is "go with the flow, my hands are clean" While for some, the Sun might embody the light of ruin, and the moon the gentle darkness, it didn't feel like that was the approach being used before Sacrifice.

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