Revenant's Thralls

[XenMaster]

On 2019-09-26 at 3:42 AM, Klaleara said:

Theres a reason that they can be killed.  Wave based modes.  Pretty annoying when 1 MC'd is preventing the whole mode from moving forward.

Mind Control allow the defense mission to progress. Except Hyekka Masters' and Drakk Masters'.

[selig_fay]

10 часов назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

He’s a bad frame. reaching high levels is Something even other bad frames can do. I’ve seen screen shots of Vauban reaching level 300.

Vauban is good for survival in the pipe. 300 level is not the limit. Your example is not very good.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

35 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Vauban is good for survival in the pipe. 300 level is not the limit. Your example is not very good.

I mean there’s a point where enemies will kill you regardless of level. Lvl 300 is within that area.

[selig_fay]

37 минут назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

I mean there’s a point where enemies will kill you regardless of level. Lvl 300 is within that area.

That's what we need abilities for. And that's why DPS abilities are largely bad against defensive and support abilities. We have many ways to deal damage, including damage that will depend on the health of the enemy. But above the 300-level EHP doesn't matter. And since we can't defend ourselves with anything but abilities, we get like this. Vauban good control and where there is no nullification and immune to control mobs, Vauban can survive indefinitely. The revenant has a different path. Him at all don't care on conditions. Thralls distract mobs, armor stacks protect from accidental shots. Is he bad? Well, it's probably the same problem as Vauban. The revenant simply can't fully realize itself at low levels. But it's a double-edged sword. Mesa, for example, won't be able to realize herself at a level above 300 because her skills have a damage limit, there are no normal control abilities, and EHP doesn't matter anymore. But I can say the Revenant is quite comfortable in the early game. His only problem is that he can be boring. Otherwise, he's perfect.

 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 minutes ago, zhellon said:

That's what we need abilities for. And that's why DPS abilities are largely bad against defensive and support abilities. We have many ways to deal damage, including damage that will depend on the health of the enemy. But above the 300-level EHP doesn't matter. And since we can't defend ourselves with anything but abilities, we get like this. Vauban good control and where there is no nullification and immune to control mobs, Vauban can survive indefinitely. The revenant has a different path. Him at all don't care on conditions. Thralls distract mobs, armor stacks protect from accidental shots. Is he bad? Well, it's probably the same problem as Vauban. The revenant simply can't fully realize itself at low levels. But it's a double-edged sword. Mesa, for example, won't be able to realize herself at a level above 300 because her skills have a damage limit, there are no normal control abilities, and EHP doesn't matter anymore. But I can say the Revenant is quite comfortable in the early game. His only problem is that he can be boring. Otherwise, he's perfect.

 

Octavia has incredible scaling DPS, can turn invisible and stay invisible for pretty much forever. Garuda can one shot anything with just raw damage and slash procs and has a shield that completely negates damage from that direction (except for explosions I think. DE fix that). So you can’t go telling me DPS and damage has their limits when there are clear examples that they don’t.

Also, Revenant? Perfect? Have you ever considered stand up because that right there is a funny joke.

Edited September 29, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[selig_fay]

1 минуту назад, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 сказал:

Octavia has incredible scaling DPS, can turn invisible and stay invisible for pretty much forever. Garuda can one shot anything with just raw damage and slash procs and has a shield that completely negates damage from that direction (except for explosions I think. DE fix that). So you can’t go telling me DPS and damage has their limits when there are clear examples that they don’t.

Revenant, too, has good damage. I wasn't talking about that. But if you want to continue, you can agree that Octavia or Garuda are less effective than Mesa or Saryn at low levels in terms of kills. This brings us back to the double-edged sword problem. At low levels mobs are too thin and similar frames just can't realize themselves.

 

 

[Pizzarugi]

On 2019-09-28 at 8:51 PM, nslay said:

Ah yes, all the same lines... Notably, after being proven wrong (with videos, pictures, common sense), what, 5-6 times now? You're still doing this Mesmer Skin thing. Wow... just wow. Remember that time when you argued that 90% damage reduction was better than 100% damage reduction? Remember how other players and I (who actually play Revenant) tried to give you pointers on how to play him so that you wouldn't have the same complaints? Welp... Nothing has changed. At this point, this isn't merely misinformation on account of you being inexperience with Revenant. We are long past that. You're lying about Revenant. You yourself know that you are demonstrably wrong (and have been shown so) on almost everything you wrote up there.

Reave is one of the best one shots in the game. We've established this multiple times. You don't like it? Fine. Don't pretend that it's not effective when you know players have even done such craziness as complete 24 hour solo Kuva Survival with him.

My impression is that you play 10 minute missions where most abilities (from any frame) aren't actually needed for any practical reason (aside of maybe speed). Let alone Enthrall and Reave because these are the tools that both very effectively CC very challenging enemies (which you don't seem to play against) and also very efficiently kill that which is practically unkillable by many frames/weapons.

You like 10 minute Sortie level missions? I completely respect that. On the other hand, Revenant can do very long endurance missions that some people like to play. And there are a lot of frames that either can't do that or can't do it very easily. That completely aside, Revenant is a very simple frame for a beginner that requires no augments or special mods to do things like solo Mot Survival (Oh yeah, completely awful tanking ability). He's also a pretty general frame that is especially excellent for solo play and can do most missions and bosses all the way up to Sorties and Arbitrations.

By the way, for someone who claims to understand Revenant, you are one of the few (if not the only one) that thinks Danse Macabre is very good. It doesn't scale like the rest of his kit. It works great for Sortie level missions though! Yeah, that's totally not useful for endurance... Only the low level easy stuff that you seem to use as a benchmark.

Revenant can do it by himself without any of those buffs or armor strip/viral/slash... and almost instantly.

For the sake of my own personal curiosity and to prove others wrong, I'd love to see a video of Revenant in high level content.

The closest thing I've seen to an immortal frame that almost scales indefinitely was Nidus in a video where someone got up to level 2500 enemies, but he had to rely on an Octavia specter for the scaling damage.

[nslay]

6 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

For the sake of my own personal curiosity and to prove others wrong, I'd love to see a video of Revenant in high level content.

The closest thing I've seen to an immortal frame that almost scales indefinitely was Nidus in a video where someone got up to level 2500 enemies, but he had to rely on an Octavia specter for the scaling damage.

Spoiler

 

 

[Pizzarugi]

26 minutes ago, nslay said:

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Neat, 1700+ is pretty damn high. I'll have to give him another look as well as his mod setup.

I always considered him as just a petmaster frame (and I LOVE summoner/petmaster playstyles in any game), but seeing as he can give my main Nidus a run for his money in endless missions, I might need to change my opinion.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Pizzarugi

[nslay]

Just now, Pizzarugi said:

Neat, 1700+ is pretty damn high. I'll have to give him another look as well as his mod setup.

I always considered him as just a petmaster frame, but seeing as he can give my main Nidus a run for his money in endless missions, I might need to change my opinion.

His pets are not meant to survive. It's harder to effectively use them in squads owing to everything dying so easily... For squads in short easy missions, you can still use Enthrall to pacify annoying or dangerous enemies (e.g. Nox, Bursas, Ambulas, Saturn Six Prisoners, Zealots, etc...) and then everyone on your team can gun them down with little to no risk of danger. You can also use Enthrall to nullify dangerous boss attacks. While bosses can be Enthralled, the duration is about 1/4th what it would normally be. Not a very useful pet... Just good for nullifying dangerous attacks they were about to perform... or just Reaving them to death (does not work on all bosses).

For longer missions, CC effects become more valuable since enemies aren't as easy to kill.

In Index, if you have a Limbo with Cataclysm on your team, you can build up enough energy to instantly kill any Index enemy with Enthrall/Reave at any time (works great on Auditor, the bursa!). Otherwise, pretty hard to use it there owing to constantly leeching energy.