Feedback on Mod Drop Booster

[-Krism-]

1 hour ago, FerockQuartz said:

Why fix for something intentional?

Why do you think I put quotes around it

[Loza03]

8 minutes ago, Fire2box said:

Whatever. You know DE's still going to introduce new resources all the time even after the fix because people who have played for years still amass insane number of resources regardless of boosters or dedicated resource farming. DE can't have a item cost 500 orokin cells to make even though that's maybe 40% of my stash because it would be unfair to anyone new. 

So new weapons or frames will generally come with new resources so players have to grind atop of whatever grind for the blueprints is. so in reality, the only people 2019's loot nerf hurts is anyone who is now just getting into warframe. Anyone before hand likely benefited unless they ran solo only or never once joined a farming session. DE can change the game however they want and in the EULA/TOS, they can ban any one for any reason at any time. So if they wanted, they could just ban anyone who complains. 

Hence why they should have made the fix earlier, so people had less time to exploit it and fewer new players get 'brought up' on the negative status quo.

Also, yes, they could ban anyone who complains, but to my knowledge they haven't. And, like... that's a really bad business practice to ban anybody who disagrees with you, because you'll start losing heaps of customers due to bad press and just straight up banning a massive chunk of the playerbase, since most people will disagree with DE on certain topics. So it's unlikely they will do that.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Except I already did, in my third post in this thread. If you can't see it, that's on you. Ignorance is bliss, after all.

You mean this one:

31 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Actually, the new booster does change things. Because it raises the question of whether that fix was done for the good of the players or for the good of DE's bank account. And with the evidence at hand, it goes from being an unpopular change that in the long run amounted to nothing, to an unpopular change made so that the old version can be sold back to you. DE created a problem and are now selling you the solution, and frankly, I'm not gonna applaud them for that when the solution was free for all previously. It is shady behavior, and just cause you chose to ignore it doesn't mean it didn't happen or that it doesn't affect people.

You haven't shown it to be shady. 

We were told that it happened. We were told why, and what precipitated it. We were allowed to discuss it until people talked themselves in a full circle. 

But here we have people claiming that the steps taken were "shady"? That's silly. 

 

And honestly, I'm not applauding them for the change either. But I'm also not going to aimlessly bash them without seeing the working for how the booster affects drop chances. Or accuse them of something that suggests that the same old entitled whiners are just doing the usual, because you kind of had to be blind to miss the reaction we got when the change happened. 

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

I mean, from an objective standpoint: it's nothing new companies are here to get money from people. The microtransaction meta is here and its gonna stay. You cant fight the big man in the suit.

There are endless examples. It's even in our culture all over the world: "profits profits profits!", "get that money, yall!", "in order to please shareholders...blah blah" etc.

 

Why are people surprised we're cattle here to be drained? You literally cant get hired the older you get because the company cant drain a new body. They want young fresh meat for the grinder. That's why they please new players instead of vets.

[Gabbynaru]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You mean this one:

You haven't shown it to be shady. 

We were told that it happened. We were told why, and what precipitated it. We were allowed to discuss it until people talked themselves in a full circle. 

But here we have people claiming that the steps taken were "shady"? That's silly. 

 

And honestly, I'm not applauding them for the change either. But I'm also not going to aimlessly bash them without seeing the working for how the booster affects drop chances. Or accuse them of something that suggests that the same old entitled whiners are just doing the usual, because you kind of had to be blind to miss the reaction we got when the change happened. 

It's not the change itself that is shady. It's the change combined with the mod drop chance booster that is shady. The change to the loot frames themselves is mostly harmless, but the booster's existence makes the change look shady as heck, because now you have the option to revert that change by paying money. That's the shady part. The fact that these two things contradict each other, and the only reason for the contradiction is money. Was the loot frames change made with the booster in mind? Who knows, we don't have the internal documents and likely never will. But the fact that the change and the booster came in such a relatively short period of time, combined with clear trends towards greed displayed by the game industry as a whole, does in fact make this whole situation look shady AF.

[FerockQuartz]

3 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Why do you think I put quotes around it

Out of strong impression that you literally mean they should fix it for good due to being broken? I mean who knows... I often put quotes on words/sentences for deeper explanatory means. Care to emphasize if I find myself wrong about it?

[Oreades]

DE for the most part has either done the right thing or self corrected when they have faltered. 

They know that the new booster has raised red flags within their playerbase as rightly it should as it would have with literally any other company within the industry. We'll see in time how this is ultimately handled and how it plays out in the long run is going to be the telling aspect of this addition not how it plays out in the immediate days/weeks. 

[Letter13]

Thread cleaned up. Just a reminder folks that if you have to resort to name calling to try and disprove someone else's points or opinions, you have not only lost the argument, you have also violated the first rule of the forum's code of conduct! Arguing and debating is all well and good when you can do so in a respectful manner; you don't have to agree with someone to treat them civilly.

 

Also, thread title edited for clarity, some image spam cleaned up, and the thread has been moved to feedback.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

1 hour ago, RX-3DR said:

Look at it this way, rather than be forced to run missions with a specific group set up, you have the luxury of running your missions with whichever frame you enjoy. All in all, it's likely going to be better in the long run because drop rates can only be balanced to that 2x drop rate chance as opposed to the possibility that drop rates fly under the radar because the stats would say that everything is fine but it's because half the groups are running loot builds and skewing the data.

this a lot. as we got more ways to farm stuff and get extra rolls on items it got out of hand with khora, hydroid, Atlas, Nekros, Ivara, and Chesa Kubrow I think easily allowed triple to quintuple dipping on something. so they axed it so now you can double dip with a few frames but it's more free form about it and you're not stuck in the same squad composition for #*!%in ever. That itself did have to be nerfed the mod drop chance booster I wouldn't even say is related at this point.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

The fact that these two things contradict each other, and the only reason for the contradiction is money.

If that's the only reason you could find, then I worry about your ability to think clearly. 

We're actively mentioning the thread where many of these same people sat trying to self-immolate, or at least it seemed that way given how much flaming they were trying to do. The same idiots who are complaining about the booster, complained about the nerf to the drop chance. A nerf that mainly affected the hardcore farmers. The hardcore farmers who would take their free frames, free companions and, free weapons, only to then turn around and sell those rare drops for profit. 

So... For those who are ok with our drop chances because we're not hardcore farmers, nothing has changed. For the people who were impacted, there's a minor inconvenience. And for the greedy, hardcore farmers, who wanted to profit from the transaction... Yeah they may need to whine a lot more to get the sympathy of the gullible. 

[Albion_Vortigern]

Nerfed loot farming and loot frames
say you are looking into it

say on stream you are going to adress the issue

sell a prime access with  a new booster that fixes the problem only if you buy it for $50

[JackHargreav]

Well you don't gain much by getting things sooner. So what's the problem?

[Gabbynaru]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If that's the only reason you could find, then I worry about your ability to think clearly. 

Dude, they nerfed the mod drop chance, they're now selling a mod drop chance booster. If you can't put 1+1 together, you might be the one with the issues.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Gabbynaru

[trst]

3 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Dude, they nerfed the mod drop chance, they're now selling a mod drop chance booster. If you can't put 1+1 together, you might be the one with the issues.

Sorry but that might be the most disingenuous post in this thread.

Mods drop chance was never touched, the chance at rolling an enemies drop table multiple times with an organized squad was nerfed.

[Letter13]

Several threads merged.

[Gabbynaru]

7 minutes ago, trst said:

Sorry but that might be the most disingenuous post in this thread.

Mods drop chance was never touched, the chance at rolling an enemies drop table multiple times with an organized squad was nerfed.

Same thing, you can get loot less often, but if you pay money, you can revert that and get loot at the same rate as before, if not better.

[trst]

12 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Same thing, you can get loot less often, but if you pay money, you can revert that and get loot at the same rate as before, if not better.

Except it's not at all the same thing. A change made to address an interaction is different than explicitly reducing rates.

Also it's not remotely better at all, the old interaction allowed for the chance to get double or more drops from an enemies pool at once or in the case of the Silver Grove farming that lead to their decision the chance for over twenty drops. Really if the booster was just added to the market it would be a waste of plat.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Honestly, I’d be fine if they kept the mod drop chance booster in the game. Only if they actually reverted the loot nerf they did some time ago while also making the mod drop booster not an actual exclusive to PA.

Like, I wouldn’t actually mind if Baro sold it in rotations every once in awhile, but that’s only if the loot nerf is reverted and if it’s not, then just get rid of mod drop booster entirely. Just my two cents on the topic.

[SirinCorium]

It is literally meant as a one-time use bonus for spending a minimum of $49.99USD real world money. Unless someone is going to be constantly repurchasing Prime Accessories to maintain the booster - which of course some less-than-rational person will probably try to do, this booster lasts for seven days. That's it. If in seven days, if the player gets a Condition Overload, that's great. In 3000 gaming hours, I have gotten one from regular play and one from transmuting. So good luck.

My issue is with someone repeatedly pulling that pricey Prime lever who can't afford it. Or DE putting the mod drop chance booster in the Market for plat - because I would have to chronically have one for farming.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Lets just put the idea that "the looting nerf was about general resources" in the ground where it belongs. With or without the nerf, we can get a lot of general resources very quickly. The nerf was obviously about mods, as they were the only thing players were regularly use the multi-loot squad setup for.

So, DE comes in and changes things from how they had been for years, claiming that the way things were for years was 'a bug' (which begs the question: why didn't DE fix it sooner?).

That implied that they thought players were farming mods too quickly.

Fast forward. Now they are selling something that speeds up the rate at which you can farm mods. This is contradictory to their apparent motivations for the looting nerf.

When Bethesda released armor repair kits in Fallout 76, they nerfed armor durability.

Activision slowed down the rate of earning Bright Engrams in Destiny 2 every time new things were added (until they got caught doing it).

There are countless other 'Live Services' games out there with similar stories.

Now we see DE doing something similar. So yeah, we're going to call out DE and make sure that they aren't going down the same path these other games did.

Because the moment a company starts making a problem, and then selling the solution, is the moment they've gone corrupt.

[Avienas]

8 hours ago, Vethalon said:

As long as they don't change dropchances, I don't see how you would need them, when we're mostly fine right now. It's also just doubling the chance, so if it's a rare mod, that'd be like 0.1%.

There are also no plans yet to sell the booster (prime access doesn't count, because buying that for the booster would never be worth it, It's basically only a bonus if you where allready going to get it) only make it available from sorties/nightwave, so it wouldn't be that you have to get it but more likely "oh, I got the booster, I'll better farm mods for the next week"

Honestly its more of the presence of such that pesters me. If they cram it in sortie its already dilluting a bad pool of goodies. Plus since a mod-drop booster only affects mods, its not like its getting special treatment. Unless mods already had a special treatment to be excluded from drop chance booster affecting it, then its only useful for stacking on top of drop chance, which should be already affecting it. Its bad enough the boosters are split into 4 and they wanna up to that to 5. When heck, Credit Booster should of been merged with Resource booster and kept to a much smaller number of boosters for people to manage. Very sure people dont appreciate what i like to call dead boosters in baro`s once every two weeks goods. Where people will likely skip unless they bring enough stock for buying in bundles, since just buying a single booster will demand them to use the next 3 days to abuse the heck out of those boosters.

All they do is double X value/chance and for the most part, not really overlap except for drop chance could stack with other players drop chance booster. Plus very sure player feedback was VERY ATTENTIVE when d.e. wanted to bring out that umbratizaton for warframes and they clearly did not like the idea. Trying out new ideas are always good but only if they make sense and do not create another hassle of a system, especially if whatever associated with it is already a hassle and most of the hassle-some systems have been cleaned up on the game involved first.

For example, Honkai impact 3rd, a mobile game, releases its 3.4 update in about  a day or two on the global server. One of the major high-lights is the introduction of being able to take specific 5 star weapons and upgrade them to 6 star, normally its a major hassle to level up weapons to its max 5 star version and this 6 star one will have just as many annoyances. During the same update they decided to finally condense the weekday crafting materials(obtained thru once a day weekday quests or buying them with in-game currency) in addition to the 4 star crafting materials used to upgrade 5 star equipment into singular materials (basically 5 resources into 1 on the latter and 3 resources into 1 on the latter), making it much easier to manage the resources, even if it technically should still be the same amount required to upgrade them, but least your not as restricted on dealing with the resources.

I will keep repeating it in any thread that associates with the elements, but D.E. NEEDS to focus on smoothing out systems on Warframe, more then introducing more additions, on top of the pile of shenigans that should be tidied up for a nice cleaned up household, so that room is actually present for such things to be tried out AND actually see if the playerbase is good with it or if instead, said playerbase is going to have a great deal of players do some sort of riot to really voice their option on the terrible additions and ignoring what alot of people are wanting to get addressed.

P.S. Anyone else remember that they nerfed double dipping drop affecting frames because of the silvergrove interaction being just a recent thing? Kind of acts as quite a bit of kindling to spark the rage over this booster being introduced. Especially when they could of instead changed how the mods were given out to instead prevent double dipping drops from one specter. Such as having the body auto-disintegrate or have it the mod drops from the pile of rocks instead of the specter. Sort of like how you got the drift mods by interacting with the sphere in the puzzle rooms.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Avienas

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, SirinCorium said:

It is literally meant as a one-time use bonus for spending a minimum of $49.99USD real world money. Unless someone is going to be constantly repurchasing Prime Accessories to maintain the booster - which of course some less-than-rational person will probably try to do, this booster lasts for seven days. That's it. If in seven days, if the player gets a Condition Overload, that's great. In 3000 gaming hours, I have gotten one from regular play and one from transmuting. So good luck.

My issue is with someone repeatedly pulling that pricey Prime lever who can't afford it. Or DE putting the mod drop chance booster in the Market for plat - because I would have to chronically have one for farming.

Exactly dood, soon as the possibility of one introduces something like a new kind of booster, especially if its purchasable in some form, you know a company is going to not leave it alone and likely will sell it in the store itself. Very sure someone else pointed out how Destiny 2 got its loot and exp gain throttled, likely due to pressure from Activision(even if Bungie back then would likely have some fault at it too), Bethesda did the whole cram in game play changing micro transactions despite saying they would not have those. Plain and simple a company needs to get its player base giving a RATHER good feedback attention on what they do not like being present, which can be rather transparent when many players will not buy X item for money, it basically declares that the company wasted resources making said item, granted you will likely have `whales` or `wreckless spenders` still buy these things, but its kind of a problem if a product is left in place when barely anyone even touches it.

Actually i think i remember on youtube seeing some videos on how a Runescape player spend $62,000 dollars in microtransactions, May of been spread out or something but thats quite a bit of money if it was mainly focused towards game-play changing elements like boosters/consumables for quick solutions and what not.

[BloodKitten]

just make it an in store booster and add an alternate helmet to atlas prime, its not too late, i think mesa prime had an alternate helmet done in a matter of less then a week.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Looks like many players here are working for fun or they are just students still under protective wings of their parents. Nobody is forcing you to buy that Pack, nobody cares about Plat, already bought,  acumulate between players, it must be consumed by System, which is not this case.

[(PSN)ChaosTheNerd]

So let me get this straight....theyre gonna nerf the synergy between frames because of the increased chance of getting more loot from silver grove, and then they come out with this? Really?

Im not even mad just really disappointed at the hypocrisy of de for nerfing the loot synergy when they make some inane booster like this.

Not to mention how psychologically damaging it could be to constantly shove these boosters down our throats and possibly have this be used as an excuse for making certain mod drop chances even worse (looking at you condition overload) 

This was a very bad move on DE's part, seriously this was unnecessary and will most likely lead to more issues with rng (as if rng in this game wasnt bad already).